Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

ricimaki

Although the times don't tell much in testing, it's interesting to compare the times to last years qualifying.
Pole last year was 1.25.232 for Hamilton. Today, Maldonado got a 1.25.011, Raikkonen a 1.25.167, and Ricciardo took third with a 1.25.547.

Are Force India using last years engine? Perez is a full second faster than Hulkenberg's time, and 1.4 seconds faster than his own best last year.

smellslikeshoes

ricimaki wrote: »

Although the times don't tell much in testing, it's interesting to compare the times to last years qualifying.
Pole last year was 1.25.232 for Hamilton. Today, Maldonado got a 1.25.011, Raikkonen a 1.25.167, and Ricciardo took third with a 1.25.547.

Are Force India using last years engine? Perez is a full second faster than Hulkenberg's time, and 1.4 seconds faster than his own best last year.

It's last years car so would have to be last years engine also I would imagine. The new tyres are the largest part of the quicker times, wonder are we going to see some lap records this year.

Joeseph Balls

Mike Litoris wrote: »

One of them was a woman.........--> <--

Mitch Connor

Have the mercs lost a lot of pace relative to the opposition or are they just not arsed running quick in the test sessions, focusing entirely on reliability issues? Can you really check the reliability of a care if not getting near proper race pace?

Thidp

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Have the mercs lost a lot of pace relative to the opposition or are they just not arsed running quick in the test sessions, focusing entirely on reliability issues? Can you really check the reliability of a care if not getting near proper race pace?

I don't know, but this is probably what they should be doing, considering what happened last season with Rosberg and Hamilton retiring and having problems in a few races.

And it seems that Mercedes won't be so far in front of the rest like last year. At least I hope so...

Thidp

Sergio Perez just did 1.24.927

F1 fanatic

Manor F1 to come out of administration.

Sounds like its just an exercise to claim the prize money from last season.

Zcott

F1 fanatic wrote: »

Manor F1 to come out of administration.

Sounds like its just an exercise to claim the prize money from last season.

Probably, but still good news nonetheless.

wobbles

Looks kind of dull to me. It needs the honda logo to be red, with a thin red strip separating the black and white on the sleeves of the polo shirt

Frank Bullitt

It's only pre-order, so if anything were to change, I would imagine then the team gear will also.

challengemaster

ricimaki wrote: »

Although the times don't tell much in testing, it's interesting to compare the times to last years qualifying.
Pole last year was 1.25.232 for Hamilton. Today, Maldonado got a 1.25.011, Raikkonen a 1.25.167

Maldonado was on softs, Raikkonen was on mediums... Still no idea on fuel load or strategies but it's impressive to see.

Ghost Train

F1 fanatic wrote: »

Manor F1 to come out of administration.

Sounds like its just an exercise to claim the prize money from last season.

I'd be hopeful they'll make it back, if it relies on getting money due to them from last year I'd say fair enough, the running costs with the new engines last year is what killed them. If other companies or people got burnt with the company collapsing that might hurt the chance of return. Hopefully for them there will still be some good will for the team when it comes to new business agreements
Says they've a verbal agreement with ferrari to get 2014 spec engine
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117752?source=mostpopular
Graeme Lowdon always seemed pretty sensable and genuine when he talked about getting racing again.

HighLine

Bit of a shunt for Alonso this morning - initial reports were that he is "conscious and ok" but has been airlifted to hospital after visiting the trackside medical center. Hopefully just precautionary.

Car doesn't look too damaged so hopefully all is well.

HighLine

I wonder if the hospital visit is resulting from something that happened before the crash?

Our colleagues at German publication Motor und Sport have quoted Sebastian Vettel, who was behind Alonso on the road when the McLaren crashed out, as saying: "The speed was slow - maybe 150kph. Then he turned right into the wall. It looked strange."

HighLine

My suspicions above may be correct...

Antonio Boselli of Sky Italia - who you might have seen joining our very own Ted Kravitz for the Day Two edition of Ted's Notebook - has tweeted 'Alonso went out at turn 4 very slowly, apparently he fainted in the car'.

We should stress, however, that this is just speculation at the moment and there's been no word from the team as to the cause of Fernando's crash.

Ghost Train

Caught the end of report on sky sports news about it

Does seem to a bit unusual, Button still going to go ahead using car, so suggests it's not a car problem

Alonso alright by the sound of it, had ct scan etc.

mickdw

Ghost Train wrote: »

Caught the end of report on sky sports news about it

Does seem to a bit unusual, Button still going to go ahead using car, so suggests it's not a car problem

Alonso alright by the sound of it, had ct scan etc.

Mclaren not running any more following the crash.
Does look like he blacked out and the fact that seb vettel was in the mclaren garage explaining what he saw as he followed alonso on track suggests that Alonso was not able to explain the accident.
So was it an alonso problem or a car problem I wonder? Some speaking of electric shock from car energy store.
Hope is not an unexplained blackout anyway.

Ghost Train

If it's possibly a car problem hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it. Always wondered about the safety of the electrics in the cars, has never really been mentioned as a big risk for the drivers, Renault engineers didn't think that could be problem the way things are designed, according to Sky but who knows

smellslikeshoes

That lap of Rosberg's to finish second on the medium tyres is about as ominous as they come.

antodeco

It really is a strange pre season testing. I'm trying to figure out who is at Max power and who is just testing some other reliable parts.

Alonso's crash earlier was very bizarre. The fact that the paramedics were working on him on the grass and then carried him off dropped in the blocker curtains suggests there's potentially something more to it than released.

Ghost Train

antodeco wrote: »

It really is a strange pre season testing. I'm trying to figure out who is at Max power and who is just testing some other reliable parts.

Alonso's crash earlier was very bizarre. The fact that the paramedics were working on him on the grass and then carried him off dropped in the blocker curtains suggests there's potentially something more to it than released.

Impression Ferrari is giving is interesting, all very positive. I didn't think they'd be coming back from the bad year last year so easily, will be fun to see what happens in australia and the true pace of all the teams. I can't see Mercedes coming under too much pressure from any of the teams, but who knows

maybe just that the medical warning light had been triggered and he had to be extracted carefully, neck braced etc

antodeco

Ferrari and lotus are a surprise so far. Hopefully will lead to a closer fought 2nd place in the constructors.

Jordan 199

I had a look at how many laps the teams completed over the last four days:

Mercedes: 435 laps.

Red Bull: 418 laps.

Ferrari: 345 laps.

Lotus: 361 laps.

Force India: 344 laps.

McLaren: 124 laps.

Sauber: 318 laps.

Toro Rosso: 411 laps.

Last pre-season test at Circuit de Catalunya will begin on this Thursday 26th of February and will end on Sunday 1st of March.

Zcott

antodeco wrote: »

It really is a strange pre season testing. I'm trying to figure out who is at Max power and who is just testing some other reliable parts.

Alonso's crash earlier was very bizarre. The fact that the paramedics were working on him on the grass and then carried him off dropped in the blocker curtains suggests there's potentially something more to it than released.

There are reports that he blacked out, was unresponsive to the medical team, and then had to be sedated for the trip to the hospital. It's all very, very odd. Some people are suggesting he might have received an electric shock, or inhaled some fumes.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/conspiracy-theories-run-wildfire-after-alonso-crash?utm_content=buffer938e2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

_rebelkid

Zcott wrote: »

There are reports that he blacked out, was unresponsive to the medical team, and then had to be sedated for the trip to the hospital. It's all very, very odd. Some people are suggesting he might have received an electric shock, or inhaled some fumes.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/conspiracy-theories-run-wildfire-after-alonso-crash?utm_content=buffer938e2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Official team line says otherwise. Conscious and speaking with the doctor when he arrived. Statement here.

Charlie-Bravo

So no injury for Alonso but being kept in overnight. Sounds to me that the injury was temporary (be it a shock or overcome by fumes). So could the car dart off the track due to being incapacitated momentarily? And keeping him in is to monitor him and be absolutely sure this incident has not effected him.

greedygoblin

There was an article on the BBC earlier where his manager was quoted as saying he was suffering from concussion after the impact and that there was nothing more than that to it.

ScumLord

astrofluff wrote: »

So no injury for Alonso but being kept in overnight. Sounds to me that the injury was temporary (be it a shock or overcome by fumes). So could the car dart off the track due to being incapacitated momentarily? And keeping him in is to monitor him and be absolutely sure this incident has not effected him.

He probably wouldn't even need to pass out as such, just losing his total concentration for a split second would be enough of an opportunity to crash the car. I don't know how fast he was going but a minor distraction at the wrong split second could easily cause a crash.

F1 fanatic

Bit of a sideline, but i have always wondered about drivers blacking out while driving.
Specifically Sennas crash. If you watch the slow mo in car footage of Sennas accident watch the LHS rear view mirror.
His head appears to drop down and forward and the engine note changes just before the car moves of the racing line.

mickdw

Further tests today for alonso according to BBC.
Very strange this.
I believe he must have suffered from some form of fumes in the car. I believe he was knocked out - some photographer has said his head was leaning before the accident.
Given the low level of damage, there is no way he would be airlifted if he was walking and talking. The fact that they did the full shield with sheets when moving to chopper suggests he was out cold.
I don't quite know what the secrecy is about, they are just creating a media storm.
One photo of alonso waving leaving hospital would put an end to the questions and he could have all the tests in the world in privacy then if needed.

HighLine

OSI wrote: »

The secrecy is likely just a lack of info available to them. Passing out could be anything from fumes exposure, electric shock, epilepsy or the dude just not getting enough sleep. No point in them speculating before they know more.

True but also no point in Boullier coming out and saying oh it was just a normal testing incident when clearly it is not.

mickdw

HighLine wrote: »

True but also no point in Boullier coming out and saying oh it was just a normal testing incident when clearly it is not.

And having just seen photos of the accident happening, there really was a tiny impact he just ran it along the wall.

HighLine

McLaren statement and initial findings. I guess that should put an end to speculation although I still have my doubts as to what happened.

Barcelona, February 23rd

We are pleased to confirm that, having been involved in an on-track incident at the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya (Spain) on February 22nd, Fernando Alonso is making a solid recovery in hospital, and is chatting to family, friends and hospital staff.

From the scene of the incident he was driven to the circuit’s medical centre, where he was given first aid and, as per normal procedures, was sedated in preparation for an air-lift to hospital.

In hospital a thorough and complete analysis of his condition was performed, involving CT scans and MRI scans, all of which were completely normal.

In order to provide the privacy and tranquillity required to facilitate a peaceful recuperation, he is being kept in hospital for further observation, and to recover from the effects of the medication that successfully managed his routine sedation yesterday.

We intend to give him every opportunity to make a rapid and complete recovery, and will evaluate in due course whether or not he will participate in the next Barcelona test.

Over the past 24 hours, we have been carrying out a detailed analysis of the damage to Fernando’s car, and its associated telemetry data, in order fully to understand the cause, or causes, of his accident. Even at this early stage, we have been able to reach some firm conclusions.

His car ran wide at the entry to Turn Three – which is a fast uphill right-hander – allowing it to run onto the Astroturf that lines the outside of the track. A consequent loss of traction caused a degree of instability, spitting it back towards the inside of the circuit, where it regained traction and struck the wall side-on.

Our findings indicate that the accident was caused by the unpredictably gusty winds at that part of the circuit at that time, and which had affected other drivers similarly (eg, Carlos Sainz Jnr).

We can categorically state that there is no evidence that indicates that Fernando’s car suffered mechanical failure of any kind. We can also confirm that absolutely no loss of aerodynamic pressure was recorded, which fact indicates that the car did not suffer any aerodynamic loss, despite the fact that it was subjected to a significant level of g-force. Finally, we can also disclose that no electrical discharge or irregularity of any kind occurred in the car’s ERS system, either before, during or after the incident.

That last point refutes the erroneous rumours that have spread recently to the effect that Fernando was rendered unconscious by an electrical fault. That is simply not true. Our data clearly shows that he was downshifting while applying full brake pressure right up to the moment of the first impact – something that clearly would not have been possible had he been unconscious at the time.

Our data also confirms that Fernando’s car struck the inside concrete wall, first with its front-right wheel and then with its rear-right. It was a significant lateral impact, resulting in damage to the front upright and axle.

After the initial impact, the car slid down the wall for about 15 seconds before coming to a halt. All four wheels remained attached to the car, but no damage was sustained by the bodywork or crash structure between the front and rear wheels.

We wish Fernando a very speedy recovery. As and when we have further updates to share, we will of course do so.

mickdw

There is something being covered up and I can't wait to find out.

HighLine

Oh and forgot to add.... he is staying in hospital for another night. Again.... just doesn't add up.

Charlie-Bravo

Yeah, statement says he was down shifting and braking, but something has happened after he hit the wall. Why did it take 15 secs for the car to stop (it seems a really long time). Did the brake-by-wire completely fail? What other electrical issue happened which was caused by striking the wall?

ScumLord

astrofluff wrote: »

Why did it take 15 secs for the car to stop (it seems a really long time).

Maybe Alonso kept the car running for that amount of time to check something? It's also just as likely he stayed in hospital to be on the safe side. Head injuries can take some time to show up so they would keep him in overnight just to be cautious. It happens all the time when there's a possibility of a head injury.

Gillespy

https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/569882613772636161

Seems reasonable to me as was the statement by McLaren. Doesn't have the oomph of a good conspiracy I guess.

Ghost Train

"routine sedation" for transport to hospital isn't something I've heard of before

GT_TDI_150

Ghost Train wrote: »

"routine sedation" for transport to hospital isn't something I've heard of before

B.A. got routine sedation for every flight, hospital or not...

Joking aside, possibly with a head/neck injury they want as little sudden moves as possible, so might make sense that they sedate for flight to hospital

ScumLord

Ghost Train wrote: »

"routine sedation" for transport to hospital isn't something I've heard of before

Sedation seems to be a treatment for head injuries. It stops swelling.

Concrete wall is the answer lads.

HighLine

Concrete wall that was lightly grazed and did minimal damage to the car and which other drivers also thought was strange.

https://twitter.com/MBrundleF1/status/569928019806183424

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Concrete wall is the answer lads.

Doesn't explain how he drove into it. Vettel thought it strange. I've never seen a driver knocked out in a crash such as this with all 4 corners pretty much intact

greedygoblin

In seasons past, such an accident would likely have seen a driver assessed at the tracks medical centre, given a few paracetamol, and told "go home and rest for a few days".

But because of the high profile head injuries suffered by Bianchi and Schumacher in the last year or so, these type of traumas are given a lot more attention. These incidents seemingly have led to the FIA update their procedures. Taking that report at face value, they say the car experienced "significant lateral impact", and that the car slid down the wall for around 15 seconds or so. Alonso might not have been travelling very fast in F1 terms, but even if he was doing 100km/h, going from that speed to effectively zero in a short space of time, means your going to experience some fairly severe forces. Given the dangers with delayed onset of TBI symptoms (as seen with Schumacher), it is probable that the course of action taken with Alonso was precautionary more than anything else.

ScumLord

It could also be the case that the medical teams saw an opportunity to test their new procedures and gave Alonso the full works as a trial run for it happening for real.

greedygoblin

Could be alright SL.

Remember back to when Bianchi had his crash. The level of scrutiny the trackside officials and the FIA were under must have been unreal. Think of the questions that were being asked at the time; why was there not a crane behind the barriers?; why the delay in getting Bianchi to hospital? (remember they went by ambulance and not by medivac heli); why were the yellow/green flags positioned where they were?; etc etc.

If the FIA had made any mistakes in Alonsos care, and considering he is one of the most high-profile figures in the sport, that level of scrutiny would have been magnified ten-fold.

mickdw

greedygoblin wrote: »

Could be alright SL.

Remember back to when Bianchi had his crash. The level of scrutiny the trackside officials and the FIA were under must have been unreal. Think of the questions that were being asked at the time; why was there not a crane behind the barriers?; why the delay in getting Bianchi to hospital? (remember they went by ambulance and not by medivac heli); why were the yellow/green flags positioned where they were?; etc etc.

If the FIA had made any mistakes in Alonsos care, and considering he is one of the most high-profile figures in the sport, that level of scrutiny would have been magnified ten-fold.

Ya it's a good theory but to be honest, if this is the way the sport is going, we will have a couple of drivers in hospital each race weekend before the race even comes around. Then if we have a crash mid race, it will probably be an automatic red flag.

cadaliac

mickdw wrote: »

Ya it's a good theory but to be honest, if this is the way the sport is going, we will have a couple of drivers in hospital each race weekend before the race even comes around. Then if we have a crash mid race, it will probably be an automatic red flag.

I agree mickdw, if this is a sign of things to come, we'll be lucky to get an incident free race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1hIh9QHTHc
There were a few incidents that could warrant a red flag last year.

greedygoblin

mickdw wrote: »

Ya it's a good theory but to be honest, if this is the way the sport is going, we will have a couple of drivers in hospital each race weekend before the race even comes around. Then if we have a crash mid race, it will probably be an automatic red flag.

I fully agree with you here mick. The risk of that happening is a huge concern. The only thing I can say is that in this case, Alonso possibly displayed some symptoms of concussion directly afterwards. Stuff like headache, dizziness, loss of balance, confusion, unresponsive to questions, slurring speech and so on. And any one of these would have potentially led to his hospitalisation.

It does look like some important information is being held back. But we'll surely know more before the next test.