Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

smellslikeshoes

_rebelkid wrote: »

Sauber wouldn't talk to them out of court, and he wants to race. He told the media he's going to race. Sauber can still appeal though.

Not a chance an appeal would be sorted in time. Sauber are in the ****, no matter what they do they are going to be breaching a contract. This is the sort of thing that could bring a team down.

_rebelkid

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Not a chance an appeal would be sorted in time. Sauber are in the ****, no matter what they do they are going to be breaching a contract. This is the sort of thing that could bring a team down.

Court is available 24/7, but the way Sauber's defence just went "No, it's fine" when asked if they had any issue with the enforcement would lead me to believe they won't appeal.

smellslikeshoes

_rebelkid wrote: »

Court is available 24/7, but the way Sauber's defence just went "No, it's fine" when asked if they had any issue with the enforcement would lead me to believe they won't appeal.

How likely is getting an appeal prepared and ruled on before Friday free practice though considering it's already Wed morning there now?

Got to say I love the racing in F1 but the offtrack dramas can at times be even more interesting :pac:

mickdw

Poor form from sauber. Monisha, the team boss and part owner is a lawyer and I believe came in to head up the teams legal department when bmw were there.
She should take this squarely on her shoulders imo.
Bad enough to get into the situation of signing 3 drivers, worse to drag a hopeless case through the courts.

_rebelkid

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

How likely is getting an appeal prepared and ruled on before Friday free practice though considering it's already Wed morning there now?

Got to say I love the racing in F1 but the offtrack dramas can at times be even more interesting :pac:

Appeal could be heard this afternoon (Australian time). All depends on Sauber. They could appeal it to try and push the limitations of time, but Justice Croft already pointed out the time critical nature of the case, which may put Sauber on the backfoot for an appeal. I don't think they'll appeal for Australia, but they will definitely appeal for after it.

_rebelkid

Monisha Kaltenborn speaking to Alan Baldwin, Reuters:


"We need to take time to understand what it means and the impact it will have on the start of our season. What we cannot do is jeopardise the safety of our team, or any other driver on the track, by having an unprepared driver in a car that has now been tailored to two other assigned drivers"

smellslikeshoes

mickdw wrote: »

Poor form from sauber. Monisha, the team boss and part owner is a lawyer and I believe came in to head up the teams legal department when bmw were there.
She should take this squarely on her shoulders imo.
Bad enough to get into the situation of signing 3 drivers, worse to drag a hopeless case through the courts.

It's even worse than that, they actually signed 4 drivers for 2015. Sutil had/has a contract also. He could probably have pushed for this also but I guess he decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

_rebelkid

_rebelkid wrote: »

Monisha Kaltenborn speaking to Alan Baldwin, Reuters:


"We need to take time to understand what it means and the impact it will have on the start of our season. What we cannot do is jeopardise the safety of our team, or any other driver on the track, by having an unprepared driver in a car that has now been tailored to two other assigned drivers"

_rebelkid

Ruling applies to the entire season. This is going to drag on I feel.

Frank Bullitt

Big mess, can't imagine that the atmosphere in the team will be great for him now.

smellslikeshoes

Well it seems they have already launched an appeal, they had to really. The money they will lose by dropping Ericsson or Nasr will bring the team down in my opinion, they really do need this to go in their favour.

Ugh, they're trying to invoke "safety". Always had respect for Sauber, it's pretty much gone altogether with this. Pathetic, small-time and disrespectful stuff however it turns out.

Ayrtonf7

IMO as interesting as this is I'd hate to see another team leave the grid

HigginsJ

Would I be right in assuming Ericcson would be the one dropped if they are forced to give the drive to Van De Garde (on the basis that banco de brasil is the main sponsor)

ZiabR

HigginsJ wrote: »

Would I be right in assuming Ericcson would be the one dropped if they are forced to give the drive to Van De Garde (on the basis that banco de brasil is the main sponsor)

That would be my thinking also. We will have to wait and see.

zombieHanalei

Crazy by Sauber to put themselves in this position when they are in such a precarious position financially. This could push them over the edge.

I'm half reminded of the demise of Jordan; EJ sacked Frentzen in a bid to lure Honda by signing Sato as his replacement, backfired horrendously. Honda chose BAR anyway, Frentzen sued, EJ tried to sign Frentzen for 2003 in a bid to satisfy Deutsche Post and DHL, Frentzen told EJ where to go and soon after the German sponsors pulled the plug, and the final nail in the coffin probably came in 2003 when EJ unsuccessfully sued Vodafone.

veganrun

Sauber give the impression they just sign those with money and seem to forget existing drivers who are under contract.

smellslikeshoes

HigginsJ wrote: »

Would I be right in assuming Ericcson would be the one dropped if they are forced to give the drive to Van De Garde (on the basis that banco de brasil is the main sponsor)

Not necessarily, rumours are that Ericcson is actually bringing more backing to the team but from private backers rather than sponsors.

mickdw

This safety angle that sauber are taking is a disgrace. They basically have to make a seat. The guy is experienced so where are they coming from with this. It didn't work in court so far so if they appeal on this basis, it is laughable.
could we have a situation where only one sauber will run? If the team failed to prepare a car for van der garde, im sure that court order would prevent anyone else from running his car.

smellslikeshoes

mickdw wrote: »

This safety angle that sauber are taking is a disgrace. They basically have to make a seat. The guy is experienced so where are they coming from with this. It didn't work in court so far so if they appeal on this basis, it is laughable.

The safety argument stinks of desperation, Sauber are in trouble and have been for a long time. It was obvious when they signed 4 drivers for 2 seats that this was a possible outcome but they still had to do it. If this appeal doesn't go their way they will have to bench either Ericcson or Nasr and the resulting financial fallout will be disastrous.

mickdw wrote: »

could we have a situation where only one sauber will run? If the team failed to prepare a car for van der garde, im sure that court order would prevent anyone else from running his car.

Not preparing a car for VDG would leave them in contempt though, they absolutely have to run a car for him.

Zcott

I don't think they offered him a particular seat, just one of the two. Joe Saward suggests on his blog that the original plan was to run Bianchi to get cheap Ferrari engines and van der Garde to get cash, but after Bianchi's accident that was no longer an option. Ericsson came along with a load of cash but not quite enough, and Nasr arrived with more cash than van der Garde, so off he went.

Awkward situation all round for all parties concerned. Hard to know who they'll drop if either, but you'd feel for Nasr if he was dropped on the week of his grand prix debut.

AMKC

http://formulaspy.com/formula-1/formula-1-news/manor-announce-roberto-merhi-as-second-driver-11499

Here is who Manor has announced as there second driver.

As for Sauber. I feel sorry for the mess they are in and really hope it does not bring down the team but they should never have let it come to this in the first place. Hopefully they will get it sorted even if that means having to keep three drivers and dividing the races between them. Although 3 does not go into 20 evenly lol.

Going Strong

Zcott wrote: »

I don't think they offered him a particular seat, just one of the two. Joe Saward suggests on his blog that the original plan was to run Bianchi to get cheap Ferrari engines and van der Garde to get cash, but after Bianchi's accident that was no longer an option. Ericsson came along with a load of cash but not quite enough, and Nasr arrived with more cash than van der Garde, so off he went.

Awkward situation all round for all parties concerned. Hard to know who they'll drop if either, but you'd feel for Nasr if he was dropped on the week of his grand prix debut.

Ericsson is the more secure of the two as his money is what got them this far. He bailed the team out last year with his backers covering Sauber's 2014 bills.

Muahahaha

lads is Sky the only place to watch F1 these days or do any other channels show it?

Mike Litoris

Muahahaha wrote: »

lads is Sky the only place to watch F1 these days or do any other channels show it?

Setanta Ireland with UPC when BBC dont show it. They've all the practise sessions too. Its also the world feed which is the BBC commentators without the build up/post session stuff.

Jordan 199

Some photos of the Manor team:

TheDoctor

Go on the lads!

Garage looks a bit bare though and the overalls a bit short on sponsors

aphex™

veganrun wrote: »

Sauber give the impression they just sign those with money and seem to forget existing drivers who are under contract.

It gets all the more strange when you see Monisha Kaltenborn has 2 law degrees...

Myrddin

What is the jist of the VDG/Sauber situation? Was he on a contract to drive with them for this season, & they just decided they'd rather sell his seat??

ScumLord

TheDoctor wrote: »

Garage looks a bit bare though and the overalls a bit short on sponsors

The car doesn't look quite ready either, seems to be some vital pieces missing. They'll probably come in the next issue of "build an F1 team" magazine.

Going Strong

Myrddin wrote: »

What is the jist of the VDG/Sauber situation? Was he on a contract to drive with them for this season, & they just decided they'd rather sell his seat??

He was contracted before last season as Sauber's test driver for 2014 with a promised drive for 2015. He was to be paired with Jules Bianchi, whose Ferrari connections would have meant cheap(er) engines and a strong technical partnership between the two teams. Unfortunately, Suzuka put an end to all that.

Sauber then contracted Ericsson to replace Bianchi and, presumably, went on the hunt for yet another driver. Ericsson paid up his money there and then, late last year so that Sauber could pay the bills and start work on the 2015 car. Sutil and van der Garde were informed by text that they were dumped and Kaltenborn stated that "We know what we did and why and it's all nice and legal." Then Sauber named Nasri as their other driver for 2015 along with his Banco de Brasil sponsorship. They let it be known that Ericsson and Nasri were bringing more money than van der Garde - but this is unclear as to how and why. As in more money outright or the same or less money but with fewer strings/conditions attached?

A Swiss arbitration board declared van der Garde had a binding contract with Sauber and the team agreed that this was so but carried on with Ericsson and Nasri in testing with no mention of van der Garde. Hence, the court case in Australia as he gets the ruling upheld in his favour.

The only real mystery is how Sauber thought they could get away with it. As far as van der Garde is concerned, he's racing this weekend and it's Sauber's problem when it comes to who his team mate will be.

Muahahaha

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Setanta Ireland with UPC when BBC dont show it. They've all the practise sessions too. Its also the world feed which is the BBC commentators without the build up/post session stuff.

thanks for that, I used to be big into it back in the Senna/Schumacher days in the 1990's. For some reason I drifted away but am keen to get back into it this season.
Do BBC only show the European races or what way does it work?

guyfo

Muahahaha wrote: »

thanks for that, I used to be big into it back in the Senna/Schumacher days in the 1990's. For some reason I drifted away but am keen to get back into it this season.
Do BBC only show the European races or what way does it work?

BBC have a deal with sky as they decided it was more important to spend money on the likes of topgear and musketeers than F1. Sky F1 show all races and bbc chooses 10 I think.

If u have a SKY HD subscription the F1 channel comes with it and its definitely hands down the best place to watch F1!

tripperman

was said last season that they still owed money to nico hulkenburg for the season he raced with them?

Dravokivich

guyfo wrote: »

BBC have a deal with sky as they decided it was more important to spend money on the likes of topgear and musketeers than F1. Sky F1 show all races and bbc chooses 10 I think.

If u have a SKY HD subscription the F1 channel comes with it and its definitely hands down the best place to watch F1!

It changed where Sky F1 is now only avail to legacy subscribers. Since last year it needs a Sports sub for new customers as far as I recall.

Mike Litoris

Muahahaha wrote: »

thanks for that, I used to be big into it back in the Senna/Schumacher days in the 1990's. For some reason I drifted away but am keen to get back into it this season.
Do BBC only show the European races or what way does it work?

The list of the 10 is here. Its a mixed bunch from all continents except Aussie.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30704154

veganrun

Am amazed Manor got a car cobbled together in time to meet the 15 regulations. By the sounds of it, the new noses were the hardest bits to get right and get through the crash tests.

Hope they do well though. Would be funny if the finished ahead of Force India

Charlie-Bravo

Yeah, and it would be funny if Van de Garde made the podium.

_rebelkid

Australian GP Race Thread

Muahahaha

Mike Litoris wrote: »

The list of the 10 is here. Its a mixed bunch from all continents except Aussie.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30704154

Thanks for that. Just looked at it there


BBC television's 10 live races in 2015
29 March - Malaysia
23 August - Belgium
19 April - Bahrain
27 September - Japan
7 June - Canada
11 October - Russia
5 July - Great Britain
15 November - Brazil
26 July - Hungary
29 November - Abu Dhabi

Not a great line up IMO. No Hockenheim, Nurburgring or Monaco :mad:

At least they have Spa and Interlagos, I suppose thats something. Criminal not to have Monaco though, its the one I look forward to the most, its a pure drivers race

_rebelkid

So they updated the F1 app. It's the same, except now it costs €28.49 for the year.

GT_TDI_150

Is there any good free F1 apps?

_rebelkid

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Is there any good free F1 apps?

Nope. FOM had a crack down in 2013. It's either you pay for it, or go without.

mickdw

OSI wrote: »

I wouldn't hold much weight in that. I know people with Computer Science degrees that would struggle to identify the basic components of a PC.

Yes but she was brought in to the team to head up the legal department when bmw were the owners. She is the hot shot lawyer, it's not as if she just happened to have a law degree and was brought in to work as a mechanic

_rebelkid

OSI wrote: »

I wouldn't hold much weight in that. I know people with Computer Science degrees that would struggle to identify the basic components of a PC.

2nd year CS student here, can confirm. I've seen them myself. Don't know how they even got into the course.

_rebelkid

mickdw wrote: »

Yes but she was brought in to the team to head up the legal department when bmw were the owners. She is was the hot shot lawyer, it's not as if she just happened to have a law degree and was brought in to work as a mechanic

FTFY.

She's not part of the legal team anymore, she doesn't have to oversee every detail. It's not as if the team didn't see this coming, they knew what could happen, and it did.

antodeco

_rebelkid wrote: »

So they updated the F1 app. It's the same, except now it costs €28.49 for the year.

Way to much! They must have put some extra features on it??

Ghost Train

Would have some sympathy for Sauber and Force India, they're teams that seemed to be just hanging on last year and it would be better if the season started positively for them.

That being said if teams are messing about when it comes to drivers contracts they probably deserve a bit of pain for it, I don't think McLaren helped themselves by delaying driver decisions well past the end of last season

_rebelkid

Well this is all a mess.

Sauber purposely didn't do anything to allow VDG to drive the car; no seat, no superlicence (although he does actually have one). Court getting tired of Sauber's dodging "You have a contract, why won't you just comply with it?". Sauber want the case to go to the Swiss Court of Arbitration. Their whole strategy from the get go was delay and frustrate, and they're doing it.

_rebelkid

antodeco wrote: »

Way to much! They must have put some extra features on it??

None that I can see. New look, that's it.