Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

Zcott

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Have you seen that the GPDA have launched a fan survey to get our opinions on what can be done to improve F1?

http://gpda.motorsport.com/

I just filled it in and it takes forever but it's no harm to have my voice heard. Hoping that everyone who fills it in ticks the box that they want to watch online!

Mike Litoris

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Have you seen that the GPDA have launched a fan survey to get our opinions on what can be done to improve F1?

http://gpda.motorsport.com/

Jaysus, that took feckin ages. Time to go home

Corben Dallas

Why are Merc paying Hamilton 50m a year when there are people lining up to pay to drive in f1. Are his skills really that special? 50m is about what manor will spend all year. I would say that about half the grid would have been able to win the world title in that merc last season and there are probably a few more outside of f1 who could have done the job also. Madness

Yes he's a top liner. Pay drivers dont tend to be that good, if they were they would get into F1 on merit/talent alone.

Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are the absolute best drivers in F1 at the moment.

Only Kimi, Rosberg and Bottas(in future) are near those three and worth what Merc/Ferrari/Mclaren-Honda are willing to pay them, Vettel is possible on same money as Lewis at Ferrari.

Outside F1?..maybe Montoya few years back, Rally Drivers, Sportscars, Indycar Drivers (closest to F1) don't have a great record of making it at the very top in F1. (Villeneuve is last one to have done it)

Top line drivers are very rare (ie good enough to be 2/3 time world champs) and tend to be worth the money.
For example the likes of Senna, Prost, Lauda, Schmacher dont come along that often... Hamilton/Alonso/and maybe Vettel/ fit into this catergory.

HighLine

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are the absolute best drivers in F1 at the moment.

Only Kimi, Rosberg and Bottas(in future) are near those three and worth what Merc/Ferrari/Mclaren-Honda are willing to pay them, Vettel is possible on same money as Lewis at Ferrari.

Bit of a disservice to Ricciardo there with that list considering how he schooled Vettel last year.

Charlie-Bravo

Ok, big question here: Today in GP2 there were two Virtual Safety Car (VSC) periods. Has this been adopted into F1? It's very interesting to see how slow the cars have to run are and how much of a benefit it is to pit during such a session. Also, the VSC can end at any time with only brief notification which really can catch drivers out if not paying attention.

Corben Dallas

HighLine wrote: »

Bit of a disservice to Ricciardo there with that list considering how he schooled Vettel last year.

Vettel had a 'Kimi' year last season, Renault engine was horrendous, took all season to get even near the best of the rest (non Merc runners) and he just
lost interest/motivation (possibly knew he was going to Ferrari).

Ricciardo is very good no doubt, but how many of his wins did he luck into? Espically Spa (Merc teammate wars- both cars effective taken out of running) and Canada >(rare(ish) Tech failure(braking overheating the ERS systems) effecting both Mercs.

Hes good, but top bracket?

Ghost Train

astrofluff wrote: »

Ok, big question here: Today in GP2 there were two Virtual Safety Car (VSC) periods. Has this been adopted into F1? It's very interesting to see how slow the cars have to run are and how much of a benefit it is to pit during such a session. Also, the VSC can end at any time with only brief notification which really can catch drivers out if not paying attention.

Yes it's part of the regulations. The teams get 10-15seconds notice before racing is about to be resumed with drivers then getting green lights
Doesn't mention if the drivers get any indication directly themselves that racing is about to resume, probably do if they're getting timing info to drive to

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/championship/inside-f1/rules-regs/Safety_car_Virtual_Safety_Car_and_Suspending_and_resuming_a_race.html

AMKC

http://gpda.motorsport.com/

Survey done. It does take a bit of time do.

Corben Dallas

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Vettel had a 'Kimi' year last season, Renault engine was horrendous, took all season to get even near the best of the rest (non Merc runners) and he just
lost interest/motivation (possibly knew he was going to Ferrari).

Ricciardo is very good no doubt, but how many of his wins did he luck into? Espically Spa (Merc teammate wars- both cars effective taken out of running) and Canada >(rare(ish) Tech failure(braking overheating the ERS systems) effecting both Mercs.

Hes good, but top bracket?

Ah yeah he's top bracket. Matching or just beating Seb last year would be one thing but dominating him as he did puts him right up there. He makes passes for fun.

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah yeah he's top bracket. Matching or just beating Seb last year would be one thing but dominating him as he did puts him right up there. He makes passes for fun.

I think it's a bit early to definitively put him in the top bracket. Brilliant season last year, but it takes more than one good year. Red Bull will come good again, then we will know for sure

counterlock

Just noticed this on Senna's car from Donington 93 - Taking a shot at Prost's sonic the hedgehog livery
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/mclaren_mp4-8_asi_2012-1.jpg

christy c

christy c wrote: »

I think it's a bit early to definitively put him in the top bracket. Brilliant season last year, but it takes more than one good year. Red Bull will come good again, then we will know for sure

Well if he's not right up there then Red Bull should be taking Vettel to court for his performance last season. Vettel is a 4-time champion and Ricciardo dominated him, he didn't just pop ahead of him by one position in the races.

Wins: 3-0
Podiums: 8-4
Points: 238-167
Qualifying: 12-7

No-one pulls a season like that out of nowhere.

TheChrisD

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Have you seen that the GPDA have launched a fan survey to get our opinions on what can be done to improve F1?

http://gpda.motorsport.com/

The only really important part of that survey was the question about what drivers you follow on Twitter, and Taki Inoue was on the list

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well if he's not right up there then Red Bull should be taking Vettel to court for his performance last season. Vettel is a 4-time champion and Ricciardo dominated him, he didn't just pop ahead of him by one position in the races.

Wins: 3-0
Podiums: 8-4
Points: 238-167
Qualifying: 12-7

No-one pulls a season like that out of nowhere.

I don't know why you're throwing stats at me because as I said, he had a brilliant season last year. History doesn't judge a driver on one season alone. He still has to prove himself, but he does have the makings of a top driver

christy c

christy c wrote: »

I don't know why you're throwing stats at me because as I said, he had a brilliant season last year. History doesn't judge a driver on one season alone. He still has to prove himself, but he does have the makings of a top driver

Everyone knew Hamilton was right up there after one season against Alonso where he matched him.

Coulthard saying what I what I said when refueling was banned. They complained about cost or transporting them while sending motorhomes around the world. :P

Have standardised, simple fuel rigs supplied by a third-party and checked by the FIA. Simple.

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everyone knew Hamilton was right up there after one season against Alonso where he matched him.

So why wasn't Ric offered the multi million Ferrari deal instead of Vettel?

christy c

christy c wrote: »

So why wasn't Ric offered the multi million Ferrari deal instead of Vettel?

I'm not saying one season means he's better than Vettel, but dominating him as he did shows he's right up in the top bracket.

Jordan 199

Deleted User wrote: »

Have standardised, simple fuel rigs supplied by a third-party and checked by the FIA. Simple.

Or the teams just use these.

mickdw

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Or the teams just use these.

Ah sure why not run them on diesel while we are at it. No risk of fire at all then.

Jordan 199

mickdw wrote: »

Ah sure why not run them on diesel while we are at it. No risk of fire at all then.

Did you not notice this ';)' above post #1729 at all no?

NASCAR has the carried canisters which is probably too far. :P There's no need for complexity though.

mickdw

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Did you not notice this ';)' above post #1729 at all no?

Strangely it didnt appear on the boards app on my phone anyway.
I did check the full desktop site and sure enough its there but to answer your question, no I didn't see it cause it doesn't appear when posted at that location for some reason.

smellslikeshoes

Deleted User wrote: »

Coulthard saying what I what I said when refueling was banned. They complained about cost or transporting them while sending motorhomes around the world. :P

Have standardised, simple fuel rigs supplied by a third-party and checked by the FIA. Simple.

They only use the motorhomes and transporters for the European races, for rest of the races they use buildings at the tracks in place of motorhomes and half a dozen 747 cargo planes to move everything, so you can see where they are coming from regarding transport costs.

Uno my Uno.

According to he us commentators these F1 cars are the most expensive ever made. That makes a mockery of all the regulation changes weve seen in recent years. The attempts to reduce expenses and increase excitement have left us with increased costs and cars that are the slowest they have been in years. I really hope we can get someone to lead the sport to make the changes we need.

H3llR4iser

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Have you seen that the GPDA have launched a fan survey to get our opinions on what can be done to improve F1?

http://gpda.motorsport.com/

Interesting initiative, maybe a little bit too geared towards the "what artificial means can we use to make it more of an entertainment?", but still good.

There was one part that actually highlighted one of the biggest current issues to me right now: where it asks to mention 5 brands that sponsor Formula 1.

I struggled - Red Bull and Petronas came up easy, Martini I had to think about it; Marlboro kept coming up (although it's not on the cars anymore!) and for the last...I had to go check pictures.

It's a big issue folks, companies do not invest in F1 anymore - and this is the reason. If you ask me the same question about, say, 1990... I can come up immediately with: Marlboro, Camel, Benetton, Epson, Tactel, TAG-Heuer, Gitanes, Magneti Marelli, Champion, Boss, Agip, Shell, Mobil, Elf, Bull, Labatt's, Riello, Leyton House, Canon, Fondmetal...and this is without going looking for them.

Return seems to be dramatically diminished and I am not sure why - even watching every race as I do, what is on the cars comes across much, much less. Maybe it's the dark & dull liveries - the "shock" at Sauber's revelation of their electric blue one should be telling, it's a livery that would have been common 15-20 years ago.

Maybe it's the shape of the cars, with very little "camera facing" space when filmed from the front.

Maybe it's the "big manufacturers" taking away too much attention singing their own song. In any case, if they want to attract sponsors (and investment) back, something needs to be done.

PopePalpatine

I'm wondering right now, why haven't alcohol companies stepped in to fill the void left by tobacco sponsorship? Yes, I know there's Martini for Williams, a variety of liquor brands for Force India and Johnnie Walker for McLaren, but I feel like there's been a bit of a missed opportunity in that area. Anyone for "Miller Haas"? :pac:

Stallingrad

Advertising if F1 used to be a great way to reach millions of viewers in an appealing sport that was sexy and dangerous. It is arguably neither now, and that advertising spend can be done much more effectively online reaching a far greater audience. There are far more savvy ways for companies to spend that money now, and F1 is left with clients who want their name on the car mostly for vanity, not marketing reasons.

H3llR4iser

Stallingrad wrote: »

Advertising if F1 used to be a great way to reach millions of viewers in an appealing sport that was sexy and dangerous. It is arguably neither now, and that advertising spend can be done much more effectively online reaching a far great far audience. There are far more savvy ways for companies to spend that money now, and F1 is left with clients who want their name on the car mostly for vanity, not marketing reasons.

Yes, the PayTV also put the final nail in the coffin - why would anyone sponsor something that people have to pay a small fortune to even watch on TV? Understandable.

However, do not underestimate the advertising potential of sports, F1 in particular. Online ads are cheap, but most people see them as a nuisance. They are invasive, unwanted and quite frankly tend to get in the way of whatever you are doing. All they say is "Look, this company can pay a web designer to place some banners all over the net!".

Sports advertisement is "transparent": how many people will be annoyed by a logo on Liverpool's jersey, or the ones around the pitch? Few, if any.

With F1 and motorsports, there is the chance to do a bit of social engineering: a technical sponsor can say "my products are so good that AMG/Red Bull/Ferrari/Williams use them"; Yet, something is not working on a visual level - I just can't remember the names and logos written on most cars, and I fully expect lots of people to be in the same boat.

Infoanon

H3llR4iser wrote: »

; Yet, something is not working on a visual level - I just can't remember the names and logos written on most cars, and I fully expect lots of people to be in the same boat.

Does Rolex and Pirelli sponsorship work on a visual level ?

FOM controls the TV coverage and controls paddock access and thus effectively can nab any major sponsor for its own benefit.

That Mclaren cannot attract a major sponsor speaks volumes

Charlie-Bravo

I could imagine loads of answers to that question were tobacco answers.

TheDoctor

Tag Heuer

Tea 1000

OSI wrote: »

Was doing the GPDA survey the other day and one of the questions is to name 3 companies/brands you associate with F1. I struggled to think of a 3rd after Pirelli and Rolex.

Would Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren not be more obvious ones?!

Tea 1000

OSI wrote: »

Was exactly who I ended up thinking of. I ran through all the liveries in my head trying to think of logos and the Williams being such an obvious one was what stuck out.



They were supposed to be sponsors/endorsments etc.

Are you sure or did you think/assume that?

H3llR4iser

OSI wrote: »

They were supposed to be sponsors/endorsments etc.

That's the way I intended it - none of the major "players"; Which excludes all the manufacturers, Pirelli, Rolex, Mumm and so on.

Some are borderline - the big obvious one being Red Bull, which has the unique status of being a team owner that does something completely different outside of the track, much like Benetton used to be.

jasonb

I haven't seen the survey yet, but I'm curious. It's been talked about as a 'how can F1 as a sport improve for the fans' survey. If that's the point of the survey, then why are there questions about which sponsors can you name? That part, at least, sounds more like a marketing survey than a 'how can we make the sport more exciting' survey!

J.

AMKC

I put down Martini and Red Bull too in the survey. Can,t remember the other three I put down lol. Petronos there is one if anyone is doing the survey. Do Shell still sponser anyone in F1 lol think I might have wrote them down lol.

AMKC

http://gpda.motorsport.com/ The survey.

H3llR4iser

jasonb wrote: »

I haven't seen the survey yet, but I'm curious. It's been talked about as a 'how can F1 as a sport improve for the fans' survey. If that's the point of the survey, then why are there questions about which sponsors can you name? That part, at least, sounds more like a marketing survey than a 'how can we make the sport more exciting' survey!

J.

It's very simple - F1 needs money, and sponsors bring the money in. The idea is "sponsors look, people recognize your brands because of F1".

Right now, sponsors are shying away - partly because there could be cheaper ways to get out there, but mostly because their visibility and return has become very low (blame the PayTV for it).

By checking which sponsors are more recognized, it's easy to spot which ones are "doing it right". If people remember Martini and Petronas, but not say Sahara, Infiniti or EMC2, they can go and take some steps to improve things - to give an example, anything written on McLaren's old "silver" livery was essentially unreadable, both in TV and from the grandstands.

Sterling Archer

OSI wrote: »

I had paraphrased the question, I don't remember the exact question but it was framed as being about sponsors and not just teams/manufacturers.

. Please name the first five brands or companies that come to mind who sponsor Formula One Grand Prix races, teams, drivers, etc.

There you go

ScumLord

OSI wrote: »

Was doing the GPDA survey the other day and one of the questions is to name 3 companies/brands you associate with F1. I struggled to think of a 3rd after Pirelli and Rolex.

I was the same, I should supposedly know these. All I could think is, watch?? Some watch? Rolex?? Shell?? Red Bull, does that count? Had to go Marlboro for the final one though.

Jordan 199

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm wondering right now, why haven't alcohol companies stepped in to fill the void left by tobacco sponsorship? Yes, I know there's Martini for Williams, a variety of liquor brands for Force India and Johnnie Walker for McLaren, but I feel like there's been a bit of a missed opportunity in that area. Anyone for "Miller Haas"? :pac:

Maybe because some alcohol companies/brewers just aren't interested in F1.

Jordan had a good few alcohol brands on-board including Pilsner Urquell (1999), Kremlyovskaya Vodka (1995) and Corona (1996).

PopePalpatine

I guess you have a point, it might be a tad inappropriate for alcohol sponsorship in motorsport.

donspeekinglesh

There's also a push to ban it too, so companies mightn't feel it worth while getting involved. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119101

Infoanon

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

There's also a push to ban it too, so companies mightn't feel it worth while getting involved. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119101

Not to mention the murmurings about banning energy drinks advertising within the next 10 years

Mitch Connor

Infoanon wrote: »

Not to mention the murmurings about banning energy drinks advertising within the next 10 years

Welcome to the monaco grand prix brought to you by broccoli and the letter 'A'.

mickdw

Has any of the Coca Cola brands ever been involved in F1.
I don't think 7 up as the same people but I may be wrong.

mickdw

Ah very good. I didnt know that nor did I know that Lotus has an energy drink sponsor.
Of all the current sponsors, Id say martini are the most recognisable and no doubt getting their moneys worth.

Zcott

mickdw wrote: »

Ah very good. I didnt know that nor did I know that Lotus has an energy drink sponsor.
Of all the current sponsors, Id say martini are the most recognisable and no doubt getting their moneys worth.

Martini are paying for it, though, they're Williams' title sponsor and the team is Williams Martini Racing.

Infoanon

Zcott wrote: »

Martini are paying for it, though, they're Williams' title sponsor and the team is Williams Martini Racing.

Word on the street has always been that Martini got a very cheap deal...