Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

El_Duderino 09

Myrddin wrote:

I probably phrased that poorly, what I meant was, F1's new PU's which were introduced to appeal to new engine developers, haven't really done that - Honda aside. Where are BMW, Toyota, Audi, Peugeot, Cosworth etc? They're likely sitting at the sidelines, looking at the absolute nightmare that Honda are having & thinking to themselves "no thanks". My point is, F1 has failed at attracting new manufacturers with these 'industry friendly' PU's. There's too much to lose now for newer entrants, with brand images like Honda taking a battering. Who on earth barring Ferrari, is going to catch up with Merc now? As I posted previously, it's becoming the Mercedes show... Something actually effective needs to happen, to make taking a punt on entering F1 more worthwhile for manufacturers.

Renault buying a team is a fairly big suggestion that they are optimist about investing in F1. Honda have done the same by entering and partly buying into one of the traditionally big teams.

You're right that both honda and Renault are taking bad publicity right now. But they are investing further to overcome the problems. Joe public hears weekly about honda having 1 bad year in F1, but he doesn't hear a thing about audi in spots car or Le Mans because F1 is the biggest show around. Honda come out on top in that situation. Honda will improve and the gap will decrease after a few years. I would accept your argument if those 2 manufacturers were divesting but they aren't because F1 is a long term game.

Major rule changes again would rightly p1ss off the manufacturers who invested in the current engines and wouldn't really give the impression of enough stability to invest and play the long game. That should not stop them from fixing problems but I don't think there are huge problems now. Tweaking it like you suggested, is fine.


Honestly I think you're looking at it from a very short term perspective. This movement towards more useful technology is an ambitious step and it will take time to develop. The manufacturers either back themselves to get in at the beginning or else wait a few years until it becomes easier to produce. You are correct that the manufacturers you mentioned are not getting involved yet. I would say that's exactly what you should expect in year 2 of a new formula.

Myrddin

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Renault buying a team is a fairly big suggestion that they are optimist about investing in F1. Honda have done the same by entering and partly buying into one of the traditionally big teams.

It's a bit different with Renault though, they're already an engine manufacturer and are taking an absolute hammering in terms of publicity from Red Bull. As things stand, Renault look bad from the outside because their engines are rubbish, and their prime customer is putting all the blame on them. From a brand image standpoint, they have to do something. That decision could hanve gone one of two ways - exit F1, or ditch Red Bull & take control themselves. It's a good point you raise when you say it shows Renault have confidence in F1 to come back, & I'd agree with you...but I feel Renault coming back is more a result of the dire situation of Lotus, than the arrival of these new PU's. If Lotus were doing well & their stock was a lot higher, it's hard to envisage Renault coming back, & that's why I think their situation is unique.

Honda are the real pioneers here, & are the first to arrive on scene as a result of the new PU's. Nobody expected them to hit the ground running, & anyone with even a passing interest in F1 would have known they'd need some time to get up to speed. However, over half way through the season & look at them, they're absolutely dreadful. If the car holds together, & that's a big if, they're usually only topping Manor. I feel this looks bad for anyone manufacturer considering coming to F1, & it's like you said, most are going to wait now for the tech to mature somewhat before joining if (if they even decide to).

You're right that both honda and Renault are taking bad publicity right now. But they are investing further to overcome the problems. Joe public hears weekly about honda having 1 bad year in F1, but he doesn't hear a thing about audi in spots car or Le Mans because F1 is the biggest show around. Honda come out on top in that situation. Honda will improve and the gap will decrease after a few years. I would accept your argument if those 2 manufacturers were divesting but they aren't because F1 is a long term game.

'The gap will decrease after a few years', but that's the whole point isn't it? Who in their right mind would look at F1 & say "yeah, lets trundle around at the back for a few years, we might catch up & eventually stop losing money"? That might change in five years or so, when the tech has matured, but who's to say the PU's will have long left in them by then, before we're looking at fairly different PU's (like we've seen countless times in F1, the engines continually change & evolve, but then get scrapped for completely different ones).

Major rule changes again would rightly p1ss off the manufacturers who invested in the current engines and wouldn't really give the impression of enough stability to invest and play the long game. That should not stop them from fixing problems but I don't think there are huge problems now. Tweaking it like you suggested, is fine.

Agreed, there's only so much back peddling you can do when so much money has gone into the current solution. I do think a tweak, a fairly big one is needed though. I think things like grid penalties for engines for ANY new manufacturer should be a thing of the past - anyone starting afresh should get to use their first year as a glorified test bed, no penalties, no allotments of components, no stupid regulations that dictate development paths in the first year at all, and even unlimited tokens. Even something like that, for years 1 only, might make a lot of sense & ease the pain of joining up.

Honestly I think you're looking at it from a very short term perspective. This movement towards more useful technology is an ambitious step and it will take time to develop. The manufacturers either back themselves to get in at the beginning or else wait a few years until it becomes easier to produce. You are correct that the manufacturers you mentioned are not getting involved yet. I would say that's exactly what you should expect in year 2 of a new formula.

You're probably right, but my comments come on the back of concerns expressed by many of the big names in the sport. Even Bernie is on record saying the costs are too high with these new engines, & this is only year two lets not forget.

Frank Bullitt

Chris Brown is racing for Merc this weekend...

Jordan 199

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well he has been "beating" his partner/teammate for ages now :pac:

*Pukes*

Frank Bullitt

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well he has been "beating" his partner/teammate for ages now :pac:

Jaysis, careful now...

Sterling Archer

Not related to this season but an interesting little discovery.. popped up on my news feed pacific feand prix website still works http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/f1-pacific-grand-prix-website-still-online-090315

El_Duderino 09

Myrddin wrote:

It's a bit different with Renault though, they're already an engine manufacturer and are taking an absolute hammering in terms of publicity from Red Bull. As things stand, Renault look bad from the outside because their engines are rubbish, and their prime customer is putting all the blame on them. From a brand image standpoint, they have to do something. That decision could hanve gone one of two ways - exit F1, or ditch Red Bull & take control themselves. It's a good point you raise when you say it shows Renault have confidence in F1 to come back, & I'd agree with you...but I feel Renault coming back is more a result of the dire situation of Lotus, than the arrival of these new PU's. If Lotus were doing well & their stock was a lot higher, it's hard to envisage Renault coming back, & that's why I think their situation is unique.

I still think that bad publicity every other weekend in F1 is better than the tiny bit of positive publicity Audi got for winning Le Mans a few weeks back.

Myrddin wrote:

Honda are the real pioneers here, & are the first to arrive on scene as a result of the new PU's. Nobody expected them to hit the ground running, & anyone with even a passing interest in F1 would have known they'd need some time to get up to speed. However, over half way through the season & look at them, they're absolutely dreadful. If the car holds together, & that's a big if, they're usually only topping Manor. I feel this looks bad for anyone manufacturer considering coming to F1, & it's like you said, most are going to wait now for the tech to mature somewhat before joining if (if they even decide to).

I agree with this except for 1 detail. Honda intended to join last year but Mercedes wouldn't release McLaren from their contract to supply engines. So Honda's entry was delayed rather than them choosing to join in year 2. If everything went to plan, then you would have had 4 manufacturers last year and nobody joining this year.

And I agree that Honda will need time to adjust but that means at least 1 full season. Honda are no joke of a team but their performance this year is poor. Last year, everyone was poor except Mercedes so it wouldn't have looked so poor.

Myrddin wrote:

'The gap will decrease after a few years', but that's the whole point isn't it? Who in their right mind would look at F1 & say "yeah, lets trundle around at the back for a few years, we might catch up & eventually stop losing money"? That might change in five years or so, when the tech has matured, but who's to say the PU's will have long left in them by then, before we're looking at fairly different PU's (like we've seen countless times in F1, the engines continually change & evolve, but then get scrapped for completely different ones).

I hope they stick with hybrid power for a few more years. F1 is always changing but it has just had a big change of PU and chassis change in 2017 so I think they need to keep it fairly stable for the first next few years if they want to attract new manufacturers.

Myrddin wrote:

Agreed, there's only so much back peddling you can do when so much money has gone into the current solution. I do think a tweak, a fairly big one is needed though. I think things like grid penalties for engines for ANY new manufacturer should be a thing of the past - anyone starting afresh should get to use their first year as a glorified test bed, no penalties, no allotments of components, no stupid regulations that dictate development paths in the first year at all, and even unlimited tokens. Even something like that, for years 1 only, might make a lot of sense & ease the pain of joining up.

Completely agree. They gave them 1 extra engine but it's not nearly enough. New PU suppliers should have way more tokens or even unlimited tokens in the early years.

Myrddin wrote:

You're probably right, but my comments come on the back of concerns expressed by many of the big names in the sport. Even Bernie is on record saying the costs are too high with these new engines, & this is only year two lets not forget.

Bernie did say that but he was opposed to green/hybrid engines since they were first proposed. I don't listen to Bernie for impartial info. If he was thinking about the long term future of the sport, then he would behave differently.

You and me probably think about how this technology will look in road cars in 10 years. We could have all kinds of cool gizmos in the common road car but Bernie doesn't care about 10 years from now because...

I hope I'm right that F1 is doing OK in the medium and long term.

TheDoctor

Shane_ef wrote: »

Not related to this season but an interesting little discovery.. popped up on my news feed pacific feand prix website still works http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/f1-pacific-grand-prix-website-still-online-090315

That is one very 1990s looking website.

mb1725

TheDoctor wrote: »

That is one very 1990s looking website.

How about this one?

mickdw

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I still think that bad publicity every other weekend in F1 is better than the tiny bit of positive publicity Audi got for winning Le Mans a few weeks back.

.

porsche

El_Duderino 09

mickdw wrote:

porsche

Fair one. I watched the Belgian GP weekend and I just know hulkenberg was one of the drivers.

Case in point.

Robbo

Max Mosely is to be on the Late Late this evening. I'd imagine it'll be largely to do with his more recent role as a privacy campaigner.

Myrddin

Robbo wrote: »

Max Mosely is to be on the Late Late this evening. I'd imagine it'll be largely to do with his more recent role as a privacy campaigner.

He was on RTE radio there a few weeks ago too, in pretty much the same capacity (or has he a book coming out?). Made for interesting listening anyway, he spoke a lot about F1

donspeekinglesh

His book came out a few weeks ago.

Myrddin

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

His book came out a few weeks ago.

Could have been for that then. I enjoyed the segment anyway. I wasn't an F1 fan during Mosley's tenure, was he good for the sport from a fans perspective?

Harika

Myrddin wrote: »

Could have been for that then. I enjoyed the segment anyway. I wasn't an F1 fan during Mosley's tenure, was he good for the sport from a fans perspective?

Yes he was good, cause he had the sport in eye sight while Todt now let the teams run the show what doesn't get them anywhere. You have to think back, in the time when Honda, BMW and Toyota backed out of F1 during the Financial Crisis, he brought three new teams into F1. They were later betrayed by not setting up financial controls what killed them in the end, still he moved things further, You might not like everything like DRS but he was also in charge when HANS and similar systems were added what lead to a significant increase in driver safety after in the first year of his presidency Senna and Ratzenberger died.
Also the latest popularity high of F1 was under him.

mickdw

Harika wrote: »

Yes he was good, cause he had the sport in eye sight while Todt now let the teams run the show what doesn't get them anywhere. You have to think back, in the time when Honda, BMW and Toyota backed out of F1 during the Financial Crisis, he brought three new teams into F1. They were later betrayed by not setting up financial controls what killed them in the end, still he moved things further, You might not like everything like DRS but he was also in charge when HANS and similar systems were added what lead to a significant increase in driver safety after in the first year of his presidency Senna and Ratzenberger died.
Also the latest popularity high of F1 was under him.

Very smart man and had some vision as to the direction things should be moving.
Himself and Bernie has it all sown up between them but from listening to an interview with mosley, he introduced alot of what we see today. Interesting stuff like how he would work around the rules to get the required result.
One example was that he wanted to get rid of qualifying spec cars but there was nothing in the rules to prevent the teams using a heavily modified car for quali so he found another rule that allowed them to introduce parc ferme regs and as such while it was still legal to run a Quali spec, there was no longer a way to rebuild the car for the race so he got his way.
Lots of stories like that including how Bernie took the risks when no one else wanted to and that allowed him to gain control.

Cool_CM

He's on now

AMKC

He did not say a lot really about F1. Anyone got a link to his RTE radio interview Id say that was a lot better and more interesting.

Joeseph Balls

AMKC wrote: »

He did not say a lot really about F1. Anyone got a link to his RTE radio interview Id say that was a lot better and more interesting.

I think it was matt Cooper, today fm. Probably on podcast.

HighLine

Things might get a little more exciting next year if RedBull get a Mercedes power unit...

Red Bull won't use Renault engines in Formula 1 in 2016

LEIN

HighLine wrote: »

Things might get a little more exciting next year if RedBull get a Mercedes power unit...

Red Bull won't use Renault engines in Formula 1 in 2016

They will never have the same power as the factory Mercedes cars.

I believe that's why McLaren pulled the pin early.

counterlock

After watching the race, I'm ready to throw in the towel with this season. Through years upon years of Schumacher and Vettel dominance, the racing has
never been this bad in my opinion. Then, as if to rub salt in the wounds, they have George Lucas doing the podium interviews. The credibility of the sport is in the toilet

Myrddin

counterlock wrote: »

After watching the race, I'm ready to throw in the towel with this season. Through years upon years of Schumacher and Vettel dominance, the racing has
never been this bad in my opinion.

It's become incredibly predictable, barring a handful of highlights over the last two years.

Then, as if to rub salt in the wounds, they have George Lucas doing the podium interviews. The credibility of the sport is in the toilet

Lucas was beyond awful. The podium interviews can be decent, if there's someone half decent conducting them (Brundle, Coulthard etc)...but when you hear it's a 'celeb' doing it, it's guaranteed cringe. The worst was when Vettel was asked if he was going to 'miss' Webber, as you say, it puts the credibility of the sport in the toilet when that happens.

tripperman

counterlock wrote: »

After watching the race, I'm ready to throw in the towel with this season. Through years upon years of Schumacher and Vettel dominance, the racing has
never been this bad in my opinion. Then, as if to rub salt in the wounds, they have George Lucas doing the podium interviews. The credibility of the sport is in the toilet

Following the sport since I was 7 and this is the first season I have ever felt the racing has been so poor, the Hungarian grand prix was the highlight so far, when vettel won his four championships the racing was a lot more competitive then this year, when Schumacher was winning you had alonso Raikkonen button all coming in and challenging him and staking a claim for the future and becoming superstars, I hope for a lot better racing next season, fair play to merc and Lewis the have done a stellar job, ferrari is closing from last season, were as everyone else has fallen flat on there faces

Ghost Train

Kind of a pity that Mercedes keep their points from championship point of view but sounds like fair enough decision. Got to hope Ferrari keep making progress and Mercedes have a bit of competition. Maybe Rosberg will have better luck towards end of season otherwise it might be even duller last few races

Myrddin

Ghost Train wrote: »

Maybe Rosberg will have better luck towards end of season otherwise it might be even duller last few races

I still think Nico will play a part in things to come. A DNF coupled with one or two bad days for Lewis & things would be back close again. Plenty of races to go, but they're becoming painful. Monza should be a guaranteed proper race, but even that couldn't produce anything half decent today.

Frank Bullitt

I'd be on board with the above as well.

Been following F1 for most of my life. Its not always been exciting or amazing, but at least you had the sound of some V10 or V8 engines making up for it. Now, we have one driver off into the distance in the prime of his skills in a car that is nothing short of a rocket ship. Not once was he troubled today, not even slightly.

We have a multiple tier F1 right now. If you are not a manufacturer or works team, you are fighting for best of the rest. This is exactly what is happening to RB right now, no longer are they able to have the privilege of being Renaults go-to team, and relations between them have hit rock bottom and its over. Merc have the best chassis engine combo, and even if they supply RB, their unit is still bespoke to them and they can maximize it to degree that they are now. The top 2 teams are manufacturers, and thats no coincidence. Its the reason why McLaren left Merc because they know to properly challenge them at all, you need to be the works team for an engine supplier, weather that works out for them or not remains to be seen, they have a huge mountain to climb.

I have no qualms about one team dominating like they are right now, Hamilton is killing the field and has speed in his pocket. Rosberg just isn't on the same level as him, at all in anyway. Races are pretty much decided after Friday FP1 barring any interference from the weather etc. And today you had the "excitement" of a possible post race punishment, and that was more exciting than any lap during the race.

I hope next year will be better, but there are no signs at all of any team catching Merc until at least 2017 when the new aero rules kick in. Right now I watch the races after most of you as the time difference isn't worth getting up at 4:30am to watch a precession. And I think I will stick with that.

In some ways its a shame for Hamilton to be working his magic like this and audiences are getting lower and lower on TV. I won't go so far as to say that this is a dark time for F1, but it sure as hell isn't exciting or interesting to watch.

smellslikeshoes

HighLine wrote: »

Things might get a little more exciting next year if RedBull get a Mercedes power unit...

Red Bull won't use Renault engines in Formula 1 in 2016

I don't think much of the fact that Autosport have started using "sources" as the basis of their articles. It used to be the case that when Autosport picked it up it was a done deal but now they are just one in a of sea of click baity news sites.

Arthur Daley

Let's face it F1 has been going downhill for a while though, not just this season. Brawn and button coming through to win easily in 2009 and all that kers hoopla saw a fair few tune out if they had sat through the schumi dominance.

As for ferrari though I think vettel needs another season and the ferrari mgt changes to settle things down. Even Michael didn't achieve much until his second season in 97.

Personally, my Mrs is loving this season.

She used to hate every second Sunday revolving around a race at 1pm. Now I no longer care, we get out of the house and 'do stuff'

Andrew76

Gintonious wrote: »

I'd be on board with the above as well.

Been following F1 for most of my life. Its not always been exciting or amazing, but at least you had the sound of some V10 or V8 engines making up for it. Now, we have one driver off into the distance in the prime of his skills in a car that is nothing short of a rocket ship. Not once was he troubled today, not even slightly.

We have a multiple tier F1 right now. If you are not a manufacturer or works team, you are fighting for best of the rest. This is exactly what is happening to RB right now, no longer are they able to have the privilege of being Renaults go-to team, and relations between them have hit rock bottom and its over. Merc have the best chassis engine combo, and even if they supply RB, their unit is still bespoke to them and they can maximize it to degree that they are now. The top 2 teams are manufacturers, and thats no coincidence. Its the reason why McLaren left Merc because they know to properly challenge them at all, you need to be the works team for an engine supplier, weather that works out for them or not remains to be seen, they have a huge mountain to climb.

I have no qualms about one team dominating like they are right now, Hamilton is killing the field and has speed in his pocket. Rosberg just isn't on the same level as him, at all in anyway. Races are pretty much decided after Friday FP1 barring any interference from the weather etc. And today you had the "excitement" of a possible post race punishment, and that was more exciting than any lap during the race.

I hope next year will be better, but there are no signs at all of any team catching Merc until at least 2017 when the new aero rules kick in. Right now I watch the races after most of you as the time difference isn't worth getting up at 4:30am to watch a precession. And I think I will stick with that.

In some ways its a shame for Hamilton to be working his magic like this and audiences are getting lower and lower on TV. I won't go so far as to say that this is a dark time for F1, but it sure as hell isn't exciting or interesting to watch.

Well said Gintonious. There was a time I'd never miss a race, watching all the pre & post race coverage too. Now I tune in 5 minutes before lights out and have the tablet to hand to surf the net in the likely event it's another boring one. I think we've had one decent race this season so far (trying to remember which), no doubt involving some cock up from Merc giving the others a chance.

It would be nice if Rosberg could start making a fight of it but I can't see that happening, it'll be the same next season too.

Are Michelin bidding to get back in the sport? Thought I heard something like that recently. Would that be as sole supplier or in competition with another like the Michelin/Bridgestone days I wonder?

T-Bird

I got a new pair of glasses today and have to say the race was amazing! I had to pause it a few times to see how clearly the crowds were defined and the grass and gravel and everything else :P Like a new kid with a new toy, instant HD! Didn't take much notice of the race though I have to admit..

Zcott

Has everyone forgotten 2004, where Schumacher won 12 of the first 13 races? Now that was a snore-fest. Compared to that, this season is pretty good. Sure, Hamilton will walk it but we all knew that. The real action is Ferrari v Williams, the McLaren saga, the Renault/Red Bull fallout, the anticipation of Haas, Max Verstappen and Carlos Sainz, Renault's buyout, Rosberg's poor form.

If it's wheel to wheel action you want check out NASCAR (which I actually enjoy as well, so no NASCAR bashing).

Frank Bullitt

Zcott wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten 2004, where Schumacher won 12 of the first 13 races? Now that was a snore-fest. Compared to that, this season is pretty good. Sure, Hamilton will walk it but we all knew that. The real action is Ferrari v Williams, the McLaren saga, the Renault/Red Bull fallout, the anticipation of Haas, Max Verstappen and Carlos Sainz, Renault's buyout, Rosberg's poor form.

If it's wheel to wheel action you want check out NASCAR (which I actually enjoy as well, so no NASCAR bashing).

For my motorsport action this year, I'm with MotoGP. Rossi back to his best!

Brian_Zeluz

Gintonious wrote: »

For my motorsport action this year, I'm with MotoGP. Rossi back to his best!

Adding that to BTCC (ITV4 via FilmOn) and World Rallycross (they have their own livestream) and it's very difficult to just justify watching the snore fest that F1 has become.

flazio

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

Adding that to BTCC (ITV4 via FilmOn) and World Rallycross (they have their own livestream) and it's very difficult to just justify watching the snore fest that F1 has become.

And dare I mention it, even though it's in its off season at the moment, Formula E

tripperman

Brian_Zeluz wrote: »

Adding that to BTCC (ITV4 via FilmOn) and World Rallycross (they have their own livestream) and it's very difficult to just justify watching the snore fest that F1 has become.

WEC aswell is leaps and bounds ahead aswell and the Tudor sports car from America (formerly alms and Daytona)

Going Strong

flazio wrote: »

And dare I mention it, even though it's in its off season at the moment, Formula E

I'm still unsure of Formula E but am willing to give it a chance seeing as there seems to be some sort of a "Grand Plan" to it. Compare that to F1's short-termist eejitry which is biting it on the bum right now and has a good chance of collapsing the entire series as well.

Infoanon

Reports that Mercedes have said no to supplying Red Bull next Season.

With Toro Rosso expected to have a Ferrari supply will we see RBR with Ferrari engines (noting Christian Horners criticism of the Ferrari engines supplied in the past) or will Bernie have to intervene to save the day ??

HighLine

Yeah looks like RB will have to use the Ferrari power units now. A shame... lets all pray for more power from Ferrari for next year!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120704

smellslikeshoes

If RBR were to do well with the Merc engine they could have potentially embarrassed the Mercedes team and if they didn't do well with it you would have Christian Horner throwing his toys out of the pram in the press.
Giving them the engine would have been a lose/lose situation.

Mike Litoris

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

If RBR were to do well with the Merc engine they could have potentially embarrassed the Mercedes team and if they didn't do well with it you would have Christian Horner throwing his toys out of the pram in the press.
Giving them the engine would have been a lose/lose situation.

Agree. I reckon the Red Bull chassis with a Merc engine would own the factory Mercs on most tracks. Imagine the battles between Danny Ric and Hamilton.

Maybe drivers should look at their teams before giving about "safety" when it comes to tyres.

BTCC Sundays are fantastic, it's on freeview like.

_rebelkid

Deleted User wrote: »

BTCC Sundays are fantastic, it's on freeview like.

Even if you only watch it for the Ginetta Junior drivers bouncing into each other, it's worth the 7 hours.

bbability

Its been really sad to see two competent racing drivers drive cars that have a serious lack of speed and drive in them. How long will this relationship last? Will McLaren jump and run or will they stick at it with Honda? The power Unit is shocking and the Honda Boss and Eric Boullier are not on speaking terms.
What does the future hold for McLaren and Honda?

mickdw

bbability wrote: »

Its been really sad to see two competent racing drivers drive cars that have a serious lack of speed and drive in them. How long will this relationship last? Will McLaren jump and run or will they stick at it with Honda? The power Unit is shocking and the Honda Boss and Eric Boullier are not on speaking terms.
What does the future hold for McLaren and Honda?

Just something I was thinking.
Honda are saying their engine is more powerful than Renault - perhaps the combustion part.
Is there any possibility that McLaren have a major hand themselves in design of the power unit in terms of recovery systems etc.
Mclaren are big in Ecu design and manufacture and would arguably have more experience in what was required having run the merc engine.
I realise that these systems are all absolutely integrated within the engine now and energy recovery is not a bolt on setup but it's just a thought I had.

Frank Bullitt

mickdw wrote: »

Just something I was thinking.
Honda are saying their engine is more powerful than Renault - perhaps the combustion part.
Is there any possibility that McLaren have a major hand themselves in design of the power unit in terms of recovery systems etc.
Mclaren are big in Ecu design and manufacture and would arguably have more experience in what was required having run the merc engine.
I realise that these systems are all absolutely integrated within the engine now and energy recovery is not a bolt on setup but it's just a thought I had.

There has been no mention about McLaren having a say in the unit design, and I am sure if they did, Honda would have mentioned it be now to get them to shoulder some of the blame.

Frank Bullitt

You could see from the onboard shots at the weekend, the front end on the McLaren is really solid.