Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

smellslikeshoes

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I have no pity for Renault, everybody was actually asking for more testing/development time for the new generation of Turbo engines and Renault said no. Karma really came back in a big way.

They also threatened to leave if the hybrid formula didn't happen in the first place, it was pretty much the F1 equivalent of holding their breath till they got their way.

PopePalpatine

As an aside, it seems like the Racing Post's tips for P1 of every Grand Prix weekend are ALWAYS wrong.

flazio

Rossi's race number is 53. Hasn't been missed that the number is


Edit Just seen the posts in the race thread, still leaving this here.

HighLine

Very interesting things being said by EJ tonight. His pearls of wisdom are usually on the money.

Volkswagen close to buying Red Bull F1 team


https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/644928352860667905

Frank Bullitt

Eddie gets a lot of stick.

He also predicted that Michael was going back to Merc as well. He is a bit of a pain in the arse, but he is surprisingly right a lot of the time.

Charlie-Bravo

Ooh ooh, a Porsche team maybe? They have a pick of names... Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT, Škoda and Volkswagen (shamelessly nicked from wiki)

Looks like they'll build their own engine. That is really interesting. Perhaps some competition for Honda! :pac:

Ghost Train

There was story back in 2014 that cosworth had continued designing v6 turbo which they were originally making for volkswagon, so they were probably close to getting involved before. Another engine maker would be good
http://www.auto123.com/en/news/f1-racecar-engineering-reveals-2014-cosworth-f1-power-unit/32925/

Frank Bullitt

Also, Steffano Dominicali works for Audi's Motorsports division now as well...just sayin'

zombieHanalei

I'm really getting fed up of Red Bull and Marko's moaning. Nothing but a drinks company who pretty much only see the sport as a PR exercise. As soon as things get a little tough they look to bail out. Gives you an extra appreciation for the likes of Williams and McLaren who stick with it during the bad times.

There was never any question of Williams quitting when Renault pulled out and they were stuck with second hand Mecachrome badged engines in 1998 and 1999. Instead of threatening to quit they sourced a new supplier and brought BMW back into the sport.

McLaren have endured three very poor seasons. Yet there is no question over their commitment to the sport.

It's particularly irritating when you have teams like Lotus and Manor battling severe financial difficulties, doing everything they can to stay afloat. Red Bull's attitude really stinks.

El_Duderino 09

zombieHanalei wrote:

I'm really getting fed up of Red Bull and Marko's moaning. Nothing but a drinks company who pretty much only see the sport as a PR exercise. As soon as things get a little tough they look to bail out. Gives you an extra appreciation for the likes of Williams and McLaren who stick with it during the bad times.

In fairness, they are all use F1 as a PR exercise. All the car manufacturers and sponsors are using it for advertisement/PR exercise. McLaren and Williams both have technology companies. McLaren is probably more of a tech company than racing team at this stage and their main advertisement is their involvementin the most hight tech sport in the world.

I suppose Sauber, Force India, (Lotus?) and Marusia are pure racing teams. In the sense you're talking about.

zombieHanalei wrote:

McLaren have endured three very poor seasons. Yet there is no question over their commitment to the sport.

As I say, they use F1 as a catalyst for their tech development. Their decision to continue in F1 isn't simply about their love of racing.

El_Duderino 09

If the VW story is legit, it's great news for the sport. Red bull are a brand that is all about being exciting and new. If they want to get out its a loss to F1 but VW would be a an excellent addition to the sport especially as an engine manufacturer.

If this is happening then it's evidence that the new power units are not the deterrent to major manufacturers entering the sport. It would make sense for a manufacturer to wait a few years before wanting to enter so the time frames would make sense.

Either way, we won't know if there have even been serious talks until someone makes an announcement or or a non - denial.

ricimaki

If its true, its very good news for the sport. I hope VW match the Mercedes package. would be nice to have a proper fight for the title again

Assuming they choose the Audi brand, I wonder will Audi pull out of endurance racing, and leave Porsche to compete there, or have Audi compete in both F1 and endurance.

Red Bull using the Ferrari engine for 2 years should give VAG some useful information (eg exact power output, engine layout) which they could use for their own engine in 2018.

It'd be quite a change to go from Infiniti Red Bull Renault to Red Bull Audi Ferrari (or whichever brand VAG choose)!

El_Duderino 09

ricimaki wrote:

It'd be quite a change to go from Infiniti Red Bull Renault to Red Bull Audi Ferrari (or whichever brand VAG choose)!

According to the article the change wouldn't happen until 2018. At which point VW would take over as team owner and engine supplier. Red Bull would stay on as title sponsor so the team name would be Audi Red Bull. No need for Ferrari at that stage.

I presume Infinitely will not be on the car from next year since it is a sister brand of Renault.

PopePalpatine

Anyone for Toro Rosso becoming Lamborghini? It can't be any worse than their last effort.

Jordan 199

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Anyone for Toro Rosso becoming Lamborghini? It can't be any worse than their last effort.

Ah the Lambo 291. Has nice looking sidepods and that is about the only good thing about that car.

mickdw

Would be a nice name to bring back.
I must have a read up on the history but I believe Mclaren nearly ran with a lambo engine before they took the peugeot unit in the early 90s.
By all accounts it was a beast but unreliable. The peugeot offering wasnt exactly a masterpiece either.

Jordan being used as a source by BBC suggests it's not waffle. Be good to get Audi in, still surprises me they didn't for the current formula, should have suited them.

smellslikeshoes

I'd love to know what the story is between Ferdinand Piëch and Bernie, the animosity between them is supposedly what has kept them out up till now, it's only Piëch's resignation that has made this a possibility.

flazio

So should this VAG deal go through, what will Red Bull and Toro Rossa do next year? Refurbished Renault under a new name?
In yesterday's BBC FP1 commentary they made a good point that any of the smaller manufacturers like Cosworth or Mugen could make an engine and the Hybrid system could be made by someone else.

El_Duderino 09

smellslikeshoes wrote:

I'd love to know what the story is between Ferdinand Piëch and Bernie, the animosity between them is supposedly what has kept them out up till now, it's only Piëch's resignation that has made this a possibility.

Bernie a tyrant who runs F1 as both a cash cow and Tir ná Nóg and his own personal plaything. If you look into how the money is divided up, it's corrupt and unpredictable.

Joe Seward, highlighted an example earlier this week on his blog. Renault were looking for 'historical payment'. This is some sort of payment that reflects their history as a long term contributor to F1. How do you measure Renault's contribution to F1? It's done by threatening to leave the sport if they don't get a ball of money to help them buy Lotus.

That sutuation both creates uncertainty about who will be in F1 in the future and diminishes the 'pot' for all the other teams creating uncertainty around financial return for being involved in the sport.

Take race location as another example. Bernie puts an extortionate price on selling the F1 event to a country. some of the traditional tracks can afford to pay but increasingly F1 is moving to countries with dictators and crazy leadership regimes who are willing to huge amounts of public money to host the event. That's why he's willing to lose tracks like Hockenheim and Monza in exchange for Kazakhstan, Bahrain, Russia and Abu Dhabi. It makes the regime look good to be associated with such a prestigious and high tech sport and Bernie's company gets a ball of money out of the deal.

In short, Bernie could be characterised as corrupt and unpredictable little Bond villain.

Of course it diminishes F1 in the long term but Bernie is in his 80s, so I doubt he spends much time thinking about the long term. His recent behaviour suggests he's very much concerned with short term profit rather than long term sustainability.

Manufacturers invest in F1 over a minimum of 7-10 years, and Bernie creates too much unpredictability and corruption.

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote:

So should this VAG deal go through, what will Red Bull and Toro Rossa do next year? Refurbished Renault under a new name?

The Ferrari deal would still go through until 2017 with VW taking over Red Bull as both team owner and PU supplier. In 2018. The article didn't mention Torro Rosso. I presume that means that the team will also be up for sale. Honda will be in its 4 th season by then so there will be 3 established PUs plus the VW which will presumably be having a first season similar to the one Honda are experiencing right now.

counterlock

'This is kepler 452b, what does Sebastian Vettel do on this planet?'

What little self respect Ted had is now well and truly dead.

Harika

Maldonado has been confirmed for next year, as Renault is looking for his money this might be good but that could collide with the french oik company total that usually sponsors Renault.

mickdw

counterlock wrote: »

'This is kepler 452b, what does Sebastian Vettel do on this planet?'

What little self respect Ted had is now well and truly dead.

I don't get this?

christy c

Harika wrote: »

Maldonado has been confirmed for next year, as Renault is looking for his money this might be good but that he could collide with the french oik company total that usually sponsors Renault.

Fixed that, Pastor is indiscriminate when it comes to collisions

counterlock

mickdw wrote: »

I don't get this?

Ted was showing Vettel pictures of things like his motorbikes and some cars. Ted showed him a picture of the planet and that was the question he asked him during the interview. Christ, even in context it doesn't make sense

Going Strong

Christian Horner all but confirmed that Mercedes will be in a "B Team" partnership with Manor next season. He was complaining about "A back marker team gets Mercedes engines but Red Bull doesn't."

Grosjean is off to Haas next year in the hopes that it leads to him taking over Kimi's Ferrari seat in 2017.

Harika

Going Strong wrote: »

Christian Horner all but confirmed that Mercedes will be in a "B Team" partnership with Manor next season. He was complaining about "A back marker team gets Mercedes engines but Red Bull doesn't."

He should have thought about this before he publicly humiliated his long term engine partner. Anyway as RedBull is just looking for a new exclusive engine partner, Mercedes might also be reluctant to see a knowledge transfer from them to possible VW.
For Manor it makes no difference but by doing this, Ferrari will be able to provide engines to RedBull and TorroRosso next year, as there is a limit of five teams that one engine manufacturer can support. So this will be Ferrari, RedBull, Torro Rosso, Haas and Sauber. Mercedes will support Mercedes, Manor, Williams. Renault will be Lotus and McLaren with Honda.
Also some thought on the Volkswagen entry, as they are now facing billion-dollar fines after rigging emissions tests, an entry to the F1 market, with the according investments seems of the table. Except they need to polish their image, what makes no sense by doing this in F1 I think.

Going Strong

German media are reporting that the VW/Red Bull deal is pretty much done. Red Bull to run customer Ferrari engines for 2016/17 and then Red Bull becomes the title sponsor for a VAG effort badged as Audi. Porsche to stay on in WEC to fly the company's flag. Don't know where Torro Rosso fit into these plans though.

In other news, Jenson Button is rumoured to be retiring at the end of this season.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/jenson-button/11879322/Jenson-Button-poised-to-quit-Formula-One.html

flazio

The Latter I heard in Teds notebook, as for Torra Rossa, Red Bull could have some fun with the Lamborghini brand. Black bull meet Red Bull.

PopePalpatine

So, they'd become Toro Nero?

Frank Bullitt

Lots of reports that Button will announce his retirement in Japan.

Myrddin

Gintonious wrote: »

Lots of reports that Button will announce his retirement in Japan.

Magnussen or Vandoorne to take the seat?

Frank Bullitt

Myrddin wrote: »

Magnussen or Vandoorne to take the seat?

Well there is now a free seat at Renault/Lotus and one still going at Haas as well. Grosjean is rumoured to be already going over to them so there is a nice silly season shaping up. Its more exciting than the racing anyway.

SamAK

Gintonious wrote: »

Lots of reports that Button will announce his retirement in Japan.

And rumours that he may be a host on re-vamped Top Gear.

I hope so, imagine a Top Gear presenter who can actually drive a car!

Myrddin

SamAK wrote: »

And rumours that he may be a host on re-vamped Top Gear.

I hope so, imagine a Top Gear presenter who can actually drive a car!

I'm not sure Jenson would make a great tv presenter tbh - but if he does retire it'd be great if he joined the BBC & became part of their F1 coverage, I think he'd be a much better fit there than something like Top Gear

SamAK

Myrddin wrote: »

I'm not sure Jenson would make a great tv presenter tbh - but if he does retire it'd be great if he joined the BBC & became part of their F1 coverage, I think he'd be a much better fit there than something like Top Gear

I dunno, he comes across a LOT better than most other drivers during interviews, very animated and funny...as his radio comms have also been recently...(obviously he doesn't give a toss about the PR and diplomacy of not slagging the team off over air anymore, which is further proof that he's retiring!)

If he's going to WEC or something like that I can't see him being an F1 pundit for a few years yet...he'll do a Webber I reckon.

El_Duderino 09

SamAK wrote:

I hope so, imagine a Top Gear presenter who can actually drive a car!

Why would top gear need one of those?

SamAK

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why would top gear need one of those?

Taking a leaf out of 5th Gear's book?

Myrddin

SamAK wrote: »

5th Gear

Ugh, I'll stick to F1 for my boredom needs

El_Duderino 09

SamAK wrote:

Taking a leaf out of 5th Gear's book?

Fair enough. I wouldn't mind seeing Jenson talk about cars but I can't think how a career in F1 would prepare him for making banter while seeing how many times you can roll a skoda down a hill before the bonnet falls off.

smellslikeshoes

flazio wrote: »

The Latter I heard in Teds notebook, as for Torra Rossa, Red Bull could have some fun with the Lamborghini brand. Black bull meet Red Bull.

Doubt it, there would be no benefit to Lambo being associated with a midfield team since their main roadcar competition would be Ferrari and I doubt VAG would be interested in spending the money involved to make a second F1 team a front runner.

Anesthetize

http://itsawheelthing.tumblr.com/

Pages and pages of old F1 photos (and other series). Something to kill a few hours or days with

Frank Bullitt

Anesthetize wrote: »

http://itsawheelthing.tumblr.com/

Pages and pages of old F1 photos (and other series). Something to kill a few hours or days with

Thats my productivity bolloxed.

Jordan 199

Anesthetize wrote: »

http://itsawheelthing.tumblr.com/

Pages and pages of old F1 photos (and other series). Something to kill a few hours or days with

Great site.

This is a great picture from it :cool:

TheDoctor

Say he felt that landing

HighLine

What are the chances of Ferrari giving an identical HP output engine to RedBull next year... fairly slim I'd imagine.

Red Bull has delivered a clear message to Formula 1 chiefs that it will quit the sport unless it is guaranteed engine performance parity with the Ferrari works team.

Myrddin

I'm getting a tad tired of all these threats & big talk from Red Bull.

ricimaki

I do wonder why engine parity wasn't written in the regulations. Only the four works teams have the absolute latest engine (possibly Torro Rosso too), and even then, Red Bull have said they might not take the new Renault unit when its available as it would lead to grid penalties. Surely an update won't cost too much, and the engine would get tested on multiple cars, speeding up any fault/reliability findings with it.

Williams have said they aren't sure if/when they will get the new unit this year. Surely Mercedes could give Williams the unit, and the extra performance could help Mercedes by having another team close to Ferrari's performance.

If Ferrari supply Red Bull next year, I can't see the two teams running identical engines. Red Bull have much better aero, and would inevitably outperform the Ferrari team. Just look at the last race, where Red Bull were only a few seconds of the Ferrari over the full race distance with a huge power deficit.

At the same time, I want to see Red Bull with a competitive engine, as there might finally be a championship battle. Ricciardo vs Hamilton vs Vettel at most races would be epic.....

Myrddin

ricimaki wrote: »

Ricciardo vs Hamilton vs Vettel at most races would be epic.....

That is so badly needed by F1 it's not even funny. Then mix Kvyat, Rosberg & Kimi into the mix and it's a very different sport to what we're seeing currently.