Charlie (RTE1 Charlie Haughey Drama)

thomil

This is actually the first bit of home grown drama I've watched since moving to Ireland in 2012. Usually, I only watch the news, maybe a few documentaries (Cork Mega Port, for example), and then switch to Netflix or a few games. I do have to say that I quite liked it. It started off slow, and I really had to wrap my head around the subject at first, once it got going, it was really good. I really enjoyed that they didn't try to force an overt love story into that, as would have been done back in Germany. One thing that really irked me though was the actor who played Helmut Schmidt at the EEC summit. Neither the looks nor the voice was right, only the cigarette fit. Maybe I'm overly critical on that account though, as I'm a huge fan of old man Schmidt.
There's still two more episodes to go, so this thing could go either way, but I'm looking forward to the next part. I really hope that more polit-dramas like this follow.

NIMAN

Some things stood out for me:

1) Aiden Gillen - yet again he has come across as an average actor at best.
2) TVL - very disappointed with him, if you had closed your eyes it was like listening to Nidge talk
3) It was far too fast paced, it raced through and couldn't really follow it. If you know little of the characters then it was just a mish mash. Its like a show that should have been 6 or 8 parts, not 3.

katydid

NIMAN wrote: »

Some things stood out for me:

1) Aiden Gillen - yet again he has come across as an average actor at best.
2) TVL - very disappointed with him, if you had closed your eyes it was like listening to Nidge talk
3) It was far too fast paced, it raced through and couldn't really follow it. If you know little of the characters then it was just a mish mash. Its like a show that should have been 6 or 8 parts, not 3.

I never saw Love Hate, so I've never seen the guy who played Meara before. I seem to be the only person in the country that didn't see him as Nidge!

katydid

thomil wrote: »

This is actually the first bit of home grown drama I've watched since moving to Ireland in 2012. Usually, I only watch the news, maybe a few documentaries (Cork Mega Port, for example), and then switch to Netflix or a few games. I do have to say that I quite liked it. It started off slow, and I really had to wrap my head around the subject at first, once it got going, it was really good. I really enjoyed that they didn't try to force an overt love story into that, as would have been done back in Germany. One thing that really irked me though was the actor who played Helmut Schmidt at the EEC summit. Neither the looks nor the voice was right, only the cigarette fit. Maybe I'm overly critical on that account though, as I'm a huge fan of old man Schmidt.
There's still two more episodes to go, so this thing could go either way, but I'm looking forward to the next part. I really hope that more polit-dramas like this follow.

My husband's German, and he said exactly the same thing about Schmidt.

He found it hard to follow, I had to do a running commentary on who was who and what the background was.

mickdw

Gillen and TVL were poor. The guy who played Gallagher with the large glasses at the beginning delivered a line very very poorly I thought.
I haven't seen gillen in all his roles but of what I have seen -
Love hate - seemed to be an evil looking fecker
Charlie - seemed a fairly evil looking fecker.
Presenting other voices - seemed like an evil fecker being on his best behaviour.

_Whimsical_

I wished they'd made a little more effort to establish characters or even name them as they spoke to them so we had some sense of who the people wandering in and out half the time were.
It definitely presupposed a knowledge of the time that people under 33 I'd say just couldn't have and for that reason I was a bit lost at times.

Ally Dick

mickdw wrote: »

Gillen and TVL were poor. The guy who played Gallagher with the large glasses at the beginning delivered a line very very poorly I thought.
I haven't seen gillen in all his roles but of what I have seen -
Love hate - seemed to be an evil looking fecker
Charlie - seemed a fairly evil looking fecker.
Presenting other voices - seemed like an evil fecker being on his best behaviour.

Gillen was dreadful on The Wire. Too posh on Love/Hate. Started strongly on Game Of Thrones but his accent has become overblown and ridiculous now for some odd reason. I didn't have high hopes for his Charlie and it is quite poor after one episode

LynnGrace

katydid wrote: »

I seem to be the only person in the country that didn't see him as Nidge!

Me neither.

The_Captain

CountyHurler wrote: »

Have to say I've been very surprised to hear the reaction today on various radio stations with regard to last night's episode... There seems to be hardly a dissenting voice... Seems to be universally loved by everybody in the media... Though it may be a case of the media being unprepared to criticise an Irish playwright, radio dramatist, translator and academic....

Mick Clifford was the only one I heard criticising it. He agreed that it suffered from too much happening at once, with confusion over who people were and what was actually happening..

I really enjoyed it, thought it was very well done.

To be honest, outside of this forum, anyone I've spoken to about it seems to have been impressed with it.

People here are being very unnecessarily harsh on it

Falcon L

I found it hard to tell who the characters were. Apart from the obvious, most of the personalities are a mystery to me. I lived through this time, but I was too busy trying to keep up with the mortgage and feed the kids to follow the political soap opera.

My opinion of Charlie at the time was that he could be great for the country, if he could just keep his ego in check and wasn't so corrupt.

fryup

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I wished they'd made a little more effort to establish characters or even name them as they spoke to them so we had some sense of who the people wandering in and out half the time were.

agreed,

i think it should have started 9 years earlier just after the arms trial, and how he hustled his way back up....going to every village and parish hall throughout the country mingling with the grassroot supporters the culchies and the gombeens of the time, would have been comical as well as informative

BoardsMember

I turned it off on Sunday night, it was annoying me. I watched it again last night and quite enjoyed it.

One thing I think they have made a mistake with is that they have tried to include too many people. They are making a three part mini series. There simply is not enough room for all these people, and all the intricate detail.

The aim of the show should have been to familiarise the audience with some of the central characters, and tell a good story. What they look to be doing is including all the bits and pieces of all the plots/shenanigans of the time. If I had the time/inclination, I'd like to go back over the first 20 minutes and take a note of all the characters introduced. I'd say we're talking about 14 or more. Just too many anyhow.

A far better way might have been to do an documentary type intro of the times, political/economic/social etc, arms trial headlines etc. It all pre-supposes too much knowledge on behalf of the audience. I dont know if it is true, but apparently the hope is to sell this around the world...if that is the case, the case for an intro to set the scene is even stronger.

As others have said, Gillen is just too poor/average an actor for the role. I thought TVL was actually quite good, albeit Nidgy spirit was there. Music was overused/wrongly used throughout.

All in all, I'm hoping for it to continue to improve, the second half of episode one was definitely better than the first half.

katydid

The_Captain wrote: »

I really enjoyed it, thought it was very well done.

To be honest, outside of this forum, anyone I've spoken to about it seems to have been impressed with it.

People here are being very unnecessarily harsh on it

I have to say that talking with people about it at work on Monday, the opinions tended more towards the negative.

Strazdas

Falcon L wrote: »

I found it hard to tell who the characters were. Apart from the obvious, most of the personalities are a mystery to me. I lived through this time, but I was too busy trying to keep up with the mortgage and feed the kids to follow the political soap opera.

My opinion of Charlie at the time was that he could be great for the country, if he could just keep his ego in check and wasn't so corrupt.

That was the problem. Most historians are of the opinion he could have been a fine Taoiseach but he became power mad and money mad once he got the job.

His approach to Northern Ireland was crude and cack handed too. None of the things that led to the eventual peace process were started by him.

BabysCoffee

The_Captain wrote: »

I really enjoyed it, thought it was very well done.

To be honest, outside of this forum, anyone I've spoken to about it seems to have been impressed with it.

People here are being very unnecessarily harsh on it

No one in my work place thought it was any good. All mentioned the rubbish acting and poor script.

ezra_pound

K-9 wrote: »

It tried to get the brutality and vindictiveness of Fitzgerald and his political opponents in the Dail before the vote on Haughey becoming Taoiseach. Haughey sat alone (why I don't know) with his mother watching from the gallery. Even Bruce Arnold wrote on how vicious the attacks were.

In fairness Garrett was 100% on the ball in what he said that day. He was also very clear that it was personally very difficult to say what had to be said about someone he had known for 35 years and who had always been courteous to him in that time. The gist of what he said is that:

a. Haughty would be the first taoiseach who was guided by personal ambition over a desire to serve the state in the name of the public good.
B. Haughey did not have genuine support from the majority of his own party and was going to be elected based on fear bullying and threatening
C. Some of his actual genuine supporters were supportive of a dangerous nationalism
D. For all of these reasons he was wholely unsuitable for the position and notwithstanding his obvious ability and charisma, represented a dangerous prospect for the future of the state and fianna fail.
E. It would be wholely unethical of him as leader of the opposition not to make this clear in the dail in the national interest.

In retrospect he was entirely right. It's also a very impressive speech.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail1979121100005#N6

Mint Aero

I nearly creamed my knickers watching this. Sexual programme.

Strazdas

ezra_pound wrote: »

In fairness Garrett was 100% on the ball in what he said that day. He was also very clear that it was personally very difficult to say what had to be said about someone he had known for 35 years and who had always been courteous to him in that time. The gist of what he said is that:

a. Haughty would be the first taoiseach who was guided by personal ambition over a desire to serve the state in the name of the public good.
B. Haughey did not have genuine support from the majority of his own party and was going to be elected based on fear bullying and threatening
C. Some of his actual genuine supporters were supportive of a dangerous nationalism
D. For all of these reasons he was wholely unsuitable for the position and notwithstanding his obvious ability and charisma, represented a dangerous prospect for the future of the state and fianna fail.
E. It would be wholely unethical of him as leader of the opposition not to make this clear in the dail in the national interest.

In retrospect he was entirely right. It's also a very impressive speech.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail1979121100005#N6

All fair points I would say. I don't think people could disagree with any of them now that we know Haughey's full life story and what he was up to. Point a) is an excellent one : he was the first Taoiseach more interested in lining his pockets and living a lavish lifestyle than serving his country.

coolhull

Strazdas wrote: »

: he was the first Taoiseach more interested in lining his pockets

Are you suggesting that there were other Taoiseachs after him who did the same? Wash your mouth out :D

Ludo

Just watched it there on the old player. Very good indeed. A bit rushed alright s others have said but interesting. Will definitely be watching the next part.

CountyHurler

I think the truth of the topic lies in what Garrett Fitzgerald said.... Charles Haughey did have the potential to be one of the best Taoisigh that the country ever had... but in Irish terms, he's certainly not unique in that.. In the same way that you could say somebody like Denis O'Brien had the potential to be seen as a JP McManus instead of a Ray Burke...

But the legacy you leave behind depends on whether you use your talent for good of others and the good of the nation, or you simply use your talents to your own ends...

madmaggie

katydid wrote: »

I never saw Love Hate, so I've never seen the guy who played Meara before. I seem to be the only person in the country that didn't see him as Nidge!

@katydid, there's two of us! I never watched Love/Hate, so no confusion.

DainBramage

Good doc from 2005 Part 1/4 above..(sorry if it has been mentioned in thread already. )
I've only watched the first part which documents his childhood to 1972 Arms Trial, none of which is in 'Charlie'.

NIMAN

A simple thing that might have helped the viewers, when each character appeared on screen for the 1st time, why not put up a little graphic with his/her name and their job/position etc. Would have given us a little background to who everyone was.

keithclancy

More like a Panto than a Docudrama.

I sincerely doubt that back in the day they rolled into restaurants spouting shakespearean sonnets.

More likely it was:

"Howrya"

"Alright Charlie"

When that guy spoke, I couldn't help but expect Nidges accent

Turned it off half way through.

Also, the music was horrible.

And what was that crap with the phonecall in french ... Could they not have shown that in 'France' rather than a "stick in a french phone call and people will get the 500 quid shirt thing"

Ludo

madmaggie wrote: »

@katydid, there's two of us! I never watched Love/Hate, so no confusion.

Make that 3...never seen Love/Hate either

Deise Vu

JaseHeath wrote: »

Mother of god, that song actually existed! :eek:

There was also a campaign bus festooned with portraits of the pulchitrudinously challenged dwarf with speakers blaring that opus on a loop.

It sounded much better when you screamed out the chorus substituting 'follow' with 'clobber'.

ezra_pound

JaseHeath wrote: »

Mother of god, that song actually existed! :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih9m0WvAwFo

It's originally about bonnie prince Charlie. Usually called sound the píobrach.

katydid

Ludo wrote: »

Make that 3...never seen Love/Hate either

Whew. I was beginning to think I was the only one.

mzungu

I enjoyed that a lot, but from reading the posts here it seems I am in the minority. Had its faults definitely, but I was entertained for the 75 minutes it was on.

The Brian Lenin portrayal does not sit quite right with me though. Its almost cartoonish.

Looking forward to this Sundays episode.