Charlie (RTE1 Charlie Haughey Drama)

D'Agger

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Who was the fella hiding in the jacks earwigging?

Interested to hear the answer to this myself....Captain Culchie is his current alias so far as I'm concerned

jezzer

amovingstatue wrote: »

From The Boss by Joyce/Murtagh p138

Doherty -- known to his friends as "the Doc" -- was extremely conscious of his public image and on occasions, his need to appear important affected his colleagues in government. To be assured of re-election in Roscommon, Doherty believed he had to maintain a high profile locally. His status as a minister ensured he got more coverage in the local newspaper than an ordinary TD and he was also in great demand to attend local party functions. But his running mate in the constituency, Terry Leyden, was a junior minister - a lower status but one which ensured that he too got better than average publicity and was also in demand. Both were entitled to state cars but Doherty was able to exercise a degree of control over the cars because they were operated from garda headquarters and he was justice minister. Doherty had the usual black Mercedes but he issued a directive that Leyden was never to be given a Mercedes. When Doherty drove through the constituency, he wanted everyone to be in no doubt about who was in town.
Leyden was allowed to have a Peugeot 604.

c*nt

Riskymove

D'Agger wrote: »

Interested to hear the answer to this myself....Captain Culchie is his current alias so far as I'm concerned

It's already been covered here. He is a fictional character

probably just to be seen as a generic FF Backbencher

The_Captain

I'm really enjoying the show, Charlie firing out one-liners and being a díck.




Then I remember that that man actually led our country

Deise Vu

One interesting historical divergence was that Charlie was shown in the drama asking the Doc to fix the problem with Charlie's election agent apparently voting twice (the Solicitor Pat O'Connor Pat O'Connor). In the drama Doc says he got a Superintendant to get a second account from witnesses and they mysteriously had changed their minds.

What actually happened was even more bizarre than the the fiction. The presiding Judge found that, as a ballot is secret by it's very nature, there was no proof that Pat O'Connor Pat O'Connor actually voted twice so the case was thrown out. Needless to say there was an outcry and the law was changed to it being an offence to just apply for a second ballot paper but Pat O'Connor Pat O'Connor was adjudged an innocent man.

Just another week in the lunatic asylum that was Ireland in the 80's.

K-9

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I agree. But in the early and mid 80s the Irish public were still firmly under the thumb of the Catholic church. Going against them was political suicide.
Divorce won't come in until 1996. And Haughey only ever fought battles that a)he could win and b) had a financial incentive for him or his masters / cronies.
Hypocrisy was almost 100% universal in the Irish political classes of the 1980s.

Politics it was but it's hypocrisy. Garret personally didn't agree with divorce, he just backed it because it was the right thing to do. Haughey gave a famous interview with HotPress about the permissive society, shame he didn't use his leadership to modernise Ireland earlier.


He'll be remembered for his double standards on so many levels plus huge on big ideas, poor on implementation and the will to see them through. Even the turnaround in the economy in the late 80's was more down to McSharry than Haughey.

K-9

realdanbreen wrote: »

I clearly remember Mary Harney being asked on local radio why the PD's weren't canvassing in Moyross and she said 'it would not be an area where we are targeting our manifesto'. Also have you ever looked at the profile of the PD top dogs? You won't find too many man in the street types there apart from a few councillors and TD's that were poached off other parties.

That's completely different to your first blanket statement though. The PD's tax policy was very much aimed at the middle class vote in the 80's and early 90's, it was why they were successful initially, until everybody else stole their clothes.

jezzer

K-9 wrote: »

Politics it was but it's hypocrisy. Garret personally didn't agree with divorce, he just backed it because it was the right thing to do. Haughey gave a famous interview with HotPress about the permissive society, shame he didn't use his leadership to modernise Ireland earlier.


He'll be remembered for his double standards on so many levels plus huge on big ideas, poor on implementation and the will to see them through. Even the turnaround in the economy in the late 80's was more down to McSharry than Haughey.

McSharry??? one could argue the complete opposite given his history....

who the fug

jezzer wrote: »

McSharry??? one could argue the complete opposite given his history....

Yes but Dukes was keeping him on the straight and narrow at the time, also there was only one course of action to solve the problem

Falcon L

Deise Vu wrote: »

One interesting historical divergence was that Charlie was shown in the drama asking the Doc to fix the problem with Charlie's election agent apparently voting twice (the Solicitor Pat O'Connor Pat O'Connor). In the drama Doc says he got a Superintendant to get a second account from witnesses and they mysteriously had changed their minds.

What actually happened was even more bizarre than the the fiction. The presiding Judge found that, as a ballot is secret by it's very nature, there was no proof that Pat O'Connor Pat O'Connor actually voted twice so the case was thrown out. Needless to say there was an outcry and the law was changed to it being an offence to just apply for a second ballot paper but Pat O'Connor Pat O'Connor was adjudged an innocent man.

Just another week in the lunatic asylum that was Ireland in the 80's.

Wasn't Pat O'Connor (x2) Charlie's solicitor for the arms trial?

Hitchens

realdanbreen wrote: »

Ah Shucks,thats so sweet!,if only it were true.

........as the Tipp fan said when he awoke after dreaming that Tipp had beaten KK

Meathlass

D'Agger wrote: »

Interested to hear the answer to this myself....Captain Culchie is his current alias so far as I'm concerned

On the RTE website the cast list has him as 'TD #7 - Fictional'. Details below of cast and photos - very useful while watching it!!

http://www.rte.ie/drama/tv/featured/charlie/abouttheshow.html

jezzer

is the show deliberately leaving out maureen haughey and family? possibly because they are still alive? or was it a case that he actually had nothing to do with them? perhaps they lived separate lives, although as far as i was aware they lived together as normal, perhaps mrs haughey turned a blind eye to the terry keane thing, anyone know when the affair ended?

i remember dermot morgan was on his case with the whole "sweetie" thing and essentially haughey had scrap saturday ended, morgan knew what they were up to.....

the 80's in ireland really was the dark ages

Power Gear

Sean Doherty in Kerry.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/crashes-and-controversy-in-haugheys-government-28840881.html


Love the photo :pac:

FloatingVoter

Charlie lived in Abbeville with Maureen. In contrast Bertie Ahern was openly separated from his wife and never denied it. Possibly the only thing he ever did that wasn't dishonest.
Charlie was notorious for playing away even before Terry Keane. It's a wonder Sean Lemass didn't arrange an accident for him. Might have saved us all a lot of bother.

Meathlass

jezzer wrote: »

is the show deliberately leaving out maureen haughey and family? possibly because they are still alive? or was it a case that he actually had nothing to do with them? perhaps they lived separate lives, although as far as i was aware they lived together as normal, perhaps mrs haughey turned a blind eye to the terry keane thing, anyone know when the affair ended?

It was an open secret; I don't think the affair ended until the 90s.

He lived with Maureen and the children - I suppose they're not in the show as they wouldn't add anything to the drama though presumably she accompanied him to state functions etc.

Obviously Mrs Haughey knew about the affair, as did Justice Ronan Keane. Why they didn't leave their respective spouses is an eternal question. Lots of people, even today, stay in cheating relationships. Plus Haughey was providing his wife and family with a certain standard of living that perhaps she didn't want to give up.

jezzer

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Charlie lived in Abbeville with Maureen. In contrast Bertie Ahern was openly separated from his wife and never denied it. Possibly the only thing he ever did that wasn't dishonest.
Charlie was notorious for playing away even before Terry Keane. It's a wonder Sean Lemass didn't arrange an accident for him. Might have saved us all a lot of bother.

really? i assumed it was just with keane because it was a power thing....he obviously only married maureen lemass as a political maneuver and to gain him some standing....presumably they led separate lives....

Its a wonder Sean Lemass didnt destroy him???

Snickers Man

Hitchens wrote: »

Charlie came to our town when he was Taoiseach to open something or other.

I had our first child with me, about 2 years of age.

...

But lo and behold, just as they are about level with us, Charlie looks across and gives us a nod, a smile and a friendly little regal wave, to which I respond in kind.

Well, it was as if someone had waved a magic wand because the mob with him immediately began waving and nodding and smiling at us as well.

They must have been thinking, "Geez, the Boss must know this fella, better stay onside here".

He really had them boys in the palm of his hand.........and me as well.

There's a difference between character and charisma.

Most successful politicians have charisma. Enoch Powell had it; Paisley had it; Clinton had it. They could impress people, dazzle them, seduce them even.

It doesn't necessarily mean they were good guys. Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville had a certain charisma too.

Would you have voted for one of them in the early 1980s?

Would you vote for one of them now?

leck

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Charlie lived in Abbeville with Maureen. In contrast Bertie Ahern was openly separated from his wife and never denied it. Possibly the only thing he ever did that wasn't dishonest.
Charlie was notorious for playing away even before Terry Keane. It's a wonder Sean Lemass didn't arrange an accident for him. Might have saved us all a lot of bother.

In this week's episode, there's the scene where Jacinta comes to his home looking for money to go to England [starts at about 1:04 on RTE Player]. In the background, The Late Late is playing on the TV, with Gay Byrne introducing Terry Keane. In the scene that immediately follows Terry Keane arrives, suggesting that it would not have been unusual for her to spend time at Abbeville, presumably when Maureen was not around.

dbrunson

K-9 wrote: »

From what I'v read, yep.

As Minister for Justice he was entitled to extra security around his home, so he got a new wall built around his bungalow. It was about 3 feet tall, wouldn't have stopped the boy scouts attacking, never mind the IRA!

An absolute disgrace as a Minister for Justice but very entertaining!

he is quoted to have said the wall was built 3ft tall to prevent seamus brennan from looking over it

FloatingVoter

jezzer wrote: »

really? i assumed it was just with keane because it was a power thing....he obviously only married maureen lemass as a political maneuver and to gain him some standing....presumably they led separate lives....

Its a wonder Sean Lemass didnt destroy him???

There is a story that in the early days Lemass was at a party dinner down the country with Haughey. A member of the hotel staff announced to Haughey within earshot of Lemass that Haughey's wife had arrived and was waiting for him upstairs. Lemass knew damned well that his heavily pregnant daughter was very much in Dublin.

jezzer

leck wrote: »

In this week's episode, there's the scene where Jacinta comes to his home looking for money to go to England [starts at about 1:04 on RTE Player]. In the background, The Late Late is playing on the TV, with Gay Byrne introducing Terry Keane. In the scene that immediately follows Terry Keane arrives, suggesting that it would not have been unusual for her to spend time at Abbeville, presumably when Maureen was not around.

No you have it wrong i'm afraid, charlie went and met keane in their suite in the burlington where they used to go at it...

walshb

jezzer wrote: »

No you have it wrong i'm afraid, charlie went and met keane in their suite in the burlington where they used to go at it...

Vomit!

jezzer

FloatingVoter wrote: »

There is a story that in the early days Lemass was at a party dinner down the country with Haughey. A member of the hotel staff announced to Haughey within earshot of Lemass that Haughey's wife had arrived and was waiting for him upstairs. Lemass knew damned well that his heavily pregnant daughter was very much in Dublin.

No way???? effin hell...haughey didnt give 5 f*cks did he? if i was lemass i would have destroyed him....


Does any one know...in episode one, when haughey was elected taoiseach, he invited his auld one to abbeyville but she said she wasnt welcome there, why was that???

jezzer

walshb wrote: »

Vomit!

Yes, a very perishable thought indeed.....neither blessed in the looks department....

Meathlass

Another story/gossip is that Haughey had a broken arm which he said was as a result of falling off a horse. Supposedly though Keane's husband pushed him down a stairs and he broke it.

realdanbreen

K-9 wrote: »

That's completely different to your first blanket statement though. The PD's tax policy was very much aimed at the middle class vote in the 80's and early 90's, it was why they were successful initially, until everybody else stole their clothes.

Exactly what I said actualy,they had zero interest in anyone unemployed or on less than 70k, thats why O'Malley was never liked in Fianna Fail.

jezzer

Meathlass wrote: »

Another story/gossip is that Haughey had a broken arm which he said was as a result of falling off a horse. Supposedly though Keane's husband pushed him down a stairs and he broke it.

yes i heard that before....anyone know anything about the story he was beat up outside a pub in west dublin before the budget was due? supposidly it was at the hands of a man whose wife haughey was tipping...

realdanbreen

FloatingVoter wrote: »

There is a story that in the early days Lemass was at a party dinner down the country with Haughey. A member of the hotel staff announced to Haughey within earshot of Lemass that Haughey's wife had arrived and was waiting for him upstairs. Lemass knew damned well that his heavily pregnant daughter was very much in Dublin.

What the big deal?
I would say 75% of real men have a bit of a fling now and then.

jezzer

realdanbreen wrote: »

What the big deal?
I would say 75% of real men have a bit of a fling now and then.

real men? good lad...