Charlie (RTE1 Charlie Haughey Drama)

D'Agger

jezzer wrote: »

real men? good lad...

As in non-ficticious characters :pac:

FloatingVoter

realdanbreen wrote: »

What the big deal?
I would say 75% of real men have a bit of a fling now and then.

Lemass hadn't killed a man since the '20s nor ordered one dead since the '30s. The kind eyes and the black heart must have been conflicted that night.
By the way...that tale came from my mother, a civil servant back then. It was going around the CS grapevine in the mid 60s.

Real men having flings is one thing to fantasise about .....betraying your mentors daughter when your mentor is a man capable of ordering death by the dozen is quite another.

mzungu

jezzer wrote: »

yes i heard that before....anyone know anything about the story he was beat up outside a pub in west dublin before the budget was due? supposidly it was at the hands of a man whose wife haughey was tipping...

Crikey. Was there anybody that Charlie wasn't with.

Thought the second episode was pretty good. Quite fast paced but enjoyable nonetheless. I assume that scene with him eating the bird was meant to symbolise something, anybody have any idea what? It went over my head.

mzungu

mzungu wrote: »

Crikey. Was there anybody that Charlie wasn't with.

Thought the second episode was pretty good. Quite fast paced but enjoyable nonetheless. I assume that scene with him eating the bird was meant to symbolise something, anybody have any idea what? It went over my head.

Id say he went down for a munch on many the bird in his time :pac:

mzungu

Deleted User wrote: »

Id say he went down for a munch on many the bird in his time :pac:

leck

jezzer wrote: »

No you have it wrong i'm afraid, charlie went and met keane in their suite in the burlington where they used to go at it...

Ah, you're right. He is wearing the same shirt and tie, but added a jacket in the later scene. He must have left Abbeville to rendevous with her in the Burlington after her appearance on the Late Late. As she comes in the door, she says "as soon as I saw the flowers in the green room, I knew."

mzungu

mzungu wrote: »

He might have came up with a bloody mouth too

JaseBelleVie

Just echoing Hitchens' story myself a bit.

I never met Charlie Haughey, but my father did a bit. And he (to this day) adores the man. I went for a bite to eat with my father last Friday evening and the topic of politics and all that came up. I have been knocked back several pegs over the last few years by the performance of my own party of choice (Labour), which contrasts with my father's die hard loyalty to his own (Fianna Fáil).

Listening to my father, though, it is easy to see why so many people were so taken in by "The Boss". He may have been 5' 6" and to many people resembled something that came out of the Mines of Mordor, but in person, it was a different ball game. In person, he was meant to have character, charisma and charm like no other politician in Ireland's history (perhaps barring the likes of Bertie Ahern and Brian Crowley [both of whom I have met]). CJH was already in an exalted status with my father even before he ever met him. But my father said that whenever he met him (which was quite often as my father was a really active party member throughout the 80's and 90's), it was like sitting down and talking with your oldest, closest friend.

Despite myself and despite my loathing of most things Fianna Fáil (my father being a definite exception!), I could not help but be drawn in and completely captured by the occasions that I met the two I've mentioned above (Crowley and Ahern). They both just have "it". Whatever "it" is, I don't know. But I was amazed at how personable, charming, open and friendly both men were. I had it in my head that I was going to be frosty and cold to them. But I melted on the spot once I got the big handshake and the smile and the charming patter. Maybe I'm a simpleton and easily led and easily pleased, but I find that once you get to talk to someone, see them up close and get a feeling for who they are (even if the side you see is simply their "political face"), it becomes harder to hate them.

I'm assuming that this is the effect that CJH had upon people up and down the country when at his zenith of power. Alluring and intoxicating.

However, power-mad and avaricious does not even begin to describe the darker side, however.

fryup

jezzer wrote: »

yes i heard that before....anyone know anything about the story he was beat up outside a pub in west dublin before the budget was due? supposidly it was at the hands of a man whose wife haughey was tipping...

i heard he was knocking up the daughter of a pub landlord and was caught in the act by said landlord and given a hiding

FloatingVoter

JaseHeath wrote: »

Just echoing Hitchens' story myself a bit.

I never met Charlie Haughey, but my father did a bit. And he (to this day) adores the man. I went for a bite to eat with my father last Friday evening and the topic of politics and all that came up. I have been knocked back several pegs over the last few years by the performance of my own party of choice (Labour), which contrasts with my father's die hard loyalty to his own (Fianna Fáil).

Listening to my father, though, it is easy to see why so many people were so taken in by "The Boss". He may have been 5' 6" and to many people resembled something that came out of the Mines of Mordor, but in person, it was a different ball game. In person, he was meant to have character, charisma and charm like no other politician in Ireland's history (perhaps barring the likes of Bertie Ahern and Brian Crowley [both of whom I have met]). CJH was already in an exalted status with my father even before he ever met him. But my father said that whenever he met him (which was quite often as my father was a really active party member throughout the 80's and 90's), it was like sitting down and talking with your oldest, closest friend.

Despite myself and despite my loathing of most things Fianna Fáil (my father being a definite exception!), I could not help but be drawn in and completely captured by the occasions that I met the two I've mentioned above (Crowley and Ahern). They both just have "it". Whatever "it" is, I don't know. But I was amazed at how personable, charming, open and friendly both men were. I had it in my head that I was going to be frosty and cold to them. But I melted on the spot once I got the big handshake and the smile and the charming patter. Maybe I'm a simpleton and easily led and easily pleased, but I find that once you get to talk to someone, see them up close and get a feeling for who they are (even if the side you see is simply their "political face"), it becomes harder to hate them.

I'm assuming that this is the effect that CJH had upon people up and down the country when at his zenith of power. Alluring and intoxicating.

However, power-mad and avaricious does not even begin to describe the darker side, however.

It is charisma and charisma is a trick that belongs to very good actors. Clinton has the dark trick. Ahern, Cowen and Kenny don't no matter how hard they try. Once you're trying, you're failing.
Otherwise sensible people claimed to have been entranced by Hitler....even the ones non-complicit in his crimes. JFK certainly had "it". On the face of the last two you have a second rate Chaplin impersonator and a man with a potato head. But it worked for them.

gormdubhgorm

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Charlie's accent is kind of "rural"

where is he from?

The accent is not spot on in this I think, but the intonations are good.

Born in mayo but grew up in Fairview, Dublin north-east.

He tried to imitate his father in law's (Sean Lemass) way of speaking so this is why it sounds a bit odd!

gormdubhgorm

grey_so_what wrote: »

Did anyone ever profile CJH at anytime before producing this??......

I doubt it....

Back in 2005....a 4 parter imaginatively entitled "Haughey"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haughey_(TV_series) :rolleyes:

Declan A Walsh

Many years ago, I worked for a month or two in Mosney Holiday Camp. One day the Lions Club were organizing a dinner in the dining-room for old folks. I was working behind the scenes in the kitchen, which was really like a factory floor.

Anyway, both Garret Fitzgerald and Charlie Haughey arrived there (not at the same time!). Each man was led from the dining-room to the kitchen area. Garret waved briefly to the staff and disappeared again. Charlie, on the other hand, lingered slightly longer and shook some hands (including mine!). In person, Charlie definitely had charisma, charm and presence, and he cultivated a kind of man of the people image. Garret came across as more aloof, and possibly absent-minded! But who was the more genuine??

Going back to the drama, I thought episode two was very entertaining. Laurence Kinlan did a very good Tony Gregory. The only issue I had with it (and again a possible problem for those not familiar with those times) was that it went through the sequence of events at a fast rate - a year must have been covered in an hour-and-a-half without much warning!

gormdubhgorm

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Timotei! lol

Always makes me think of Packie Bonners Save against Romania

Daniel Timofte

See this you tube clip at 4.50

daniel timofte

leck

Meathlass wrote: »

Another story/gossip is that Haughey had a broken arm which he said was as a result of falling off a horse. Supposedly though Keane's husband pushed him down a stairs and he broke it.

He had an accident on the morning of 22 April 1970 which resulted in him being brought to hospital. As a result Jack Lynch presented the budget later that day. In the clip at the link below, his election agent gives the official account of the accident, but it has of course been attributed to a beating at a pub.
Election agent for Charles J. Haughey, Patrick O'Connor, reads a statement outlining Haughey's accident on budget day.

Declan A Walsh

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh he was dodgy ill admit but at least he was tigerish. Look at the pathetic excuses we have today like Kenny and Gilroy for example. At least Haughey would try get us a better deal.

Gilroy? I presume you mean Gilmore (as in Eamon)! He is no longer the Tanaiste of course, being replaced by Joan Burton!

Declan A Walsh

Declan A Walsh wrote: »

Gilroy? I presume you mean Gilmore (as in Eamon)! He is no longer the Tanaiste of course, being replaced by Joan Burton!

Apologies Gilmore of course. Im making a few of these errors lately but yeah i realise he is no longer Tanaiste and we dont have much in terms of a replacement in Burton.

DazHeath

Really enjoying this.

WheatenBriar

DazHeath wrote: »

Really enjoying this.

A major trick was missed with this show though
Spread over 10 shows, explaining the backdrop and characters a bit more, this would have made its makers a lot of money selling it abroad

gormdubhgorm

Skid X wrote: »

Did that brawl really happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Gibbons_(Irish_politician)

Aparrently so "Gibbons regained his seat at the February 1982 general election and voted against Haughey in the leadership challenge that was proposed by Charlie McCreevy. Leaving Leinster House after the vote he was attacked by a number of drunken Fianna Fáil supporters and forced to the ground. A friend of his saw off the attackers. In the aftermath, new swivel doors were erected to prevent mobs pushing their way into the parliament building. The incident was recounted by Desmond O'Malley in the RTÉ documentary series Seven Ages (although O'Malley does not mention Gibbons by name), and was later also referred to in the 2015 RTÉ biographical series Haughey."

He was attacked because of his involvement in the Arms trial "At the subsequent Arms Trial Gibbons would be the chief prosecutorial witness and his evidence would contradict Haughey's. Haughey was found not guilty, therefore Gibbons was alleged to have been the dishonest one, an allegation that affected him deeply."

I seriously doubt there was an iraqi ceremonial sword to save him though!:D

gormdubhgorm

WheatenBriar wrote: »

A major trick was missed with this show though
Spread over 10 shows, explaining the backdrop and characters a bit more, this would have made its makers a lot of money selling it abroad

Spot on some one earlier said it could have been the "Irish House of Cards".
Maybe they would consider doing a few more seasons of this and leave this as the taster?
I enjoyed it anyway but my one criticism its very crammed so far, chance missed I think.:(

gormdubhgorm

realdanbreen wrote: »

What the big deal?
I would say 75% of real men have a bit of a fling now and then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Mitterrand

Sure yer man François_Mitterrand has two mistresses on the go Anne Pingeot who was brought to Inishvickillane with Terry and Charlie in the drama.

Francois also had another one Christina Forsne a Swedish journalist: plus " had two children as results of extra-marital affairs: a daughter, Mazarine (born 1974) with his mistress Anne Pingeot, and a son, Hravn Forsne (born 1988), with Swedish journalist Christina Forsne. Hravn Forsne is currently running for a seat in the Swedish parliamentary election.":D

Gits_bone

Just watching first episode now. I'm about 20 mins in.

As someone who didn't grow up or know much about Haughey (apart from he was a crook) I am lost.

mzungu

WheatenBriar wrote: »

A major trick was missed with this show though
Spread over 10 shows, explaining the backdrop and characters a bit more, this would have made its makers a lot of money selling it abroad

Id say the budget would not be there for 10 episodes. Its a shame though because there would have been plenty of scope with the events like the Arms Trial that would have made for great TV. Episode 1 starting from when Charlie was a young lad and take things right up to his death.

FloatingVoter

mzungu wrote: »

Id say the budget would not be there for 10 episodes. Its a shame though because there would have been plenty of scope with the events like the Arms Trial that would have made for great TV. Episode 1 starting from when Charlie was a young lad and take things right up to his death.

You could start with him and his mates burning the union jack in College Green on VE day. Officially, it was because of the disrespect shown to the tricolour in the order of flags flown by Trinity. Speaking as a pisshead and a former student, I reckon it was a pretty good idea at the time moment.

AnonoBoy

WheatenBriar wrote: »

A major trick was missed with this show though
Spread over 10 shows, explaining the backdrop and characters a bit more, this would have made its makers a lot of money selling it abroad

I don't know if it would have appeal abroad to be honest.

K-9

who the fug wrote: »

Yes but Dukes was keeping him on the straight and narrow at the time, also there was only one course of action to solve the problem

McSharry threatened to resign when Haughey looked like straying from the fiscal rectitude path, which considering McSharry was Finance Minister in a minority Government was a pretty big gun to Charlies head.

who the fug

K-9 wrote: »

McSharry threatened to resign when Haughey looked like straying from the fiscal rectitude path, which considering McSharry was Finance Minister in a minority Government was a pretty big gun to Charlies head.

When did he do that?

jezzer

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Lemass hadn't killed a man since the '20s nor ordered one dead since the '30s. The kind eyes and the black heart must have been conflicted that night.
By the way...that tale came from my mother, a civil servant back then. It was going around the CS grapevine in the mid 60s.

Real men having flings is one thing to fantasise about .....betraying your mentors daughter when your mentor is a man capable of ordering death by the dozen is quite another.

which is all the more hard to understand why lemass didnt have him done in???

jezzer

mzungu wrote: »

Crikey. Was there anybody that Charlie wasn't with.

Thought the second episode was pretty good. Quite fast paced but enjoyable nonetheless. I assume that scene with him eating the bird was meant to symbolise something, anybody have any idea what? It went over my head.

He must have been riddled....like james bond....

I thought that bird eating scene was a step too far and rather disturbing