Charlie (RTE1 Charlie Haughey Drama)

jezzer

leck wrote: »

Ah, you're right. He is wearing the same shirt and tie, but added a jacket in the later scene. He must have left Abbeville to rendevous with her in the Burlington after her appearance on the Late Late. As she comes in the door, she says "as soon as I saw the flowers in the green room, I knew."

Yes that was it...it also showed that he did as he wanted...he skipped out of abbeyville at half eleven at night after the late late show and went in to tip terry keane in the burlington....not exactly the life of your average man in the 80's which would stereotypically be bridget and eamon sat on the couch smoking fags looking at gaybo on the latelate introduce sex to the irish nation....charlie was already well ahead of that game.....no chance of him sat there with maureen of a friday night...

HeidiHeidi

jezzer wrote: »

Yes that was it...it also showed that he did as he wanted...he skipped out of abbeyville at half eleven at night after the late late show and went in to tip terry keane in the burlington....not exactly the life of your average man in the 80's which would stereotypically be bridget and eamon sat on the couch smoking fags looking at gaybo on the latelate introduce sex to the irish nation....charlie was already well ahead of that game.....no chance of him sat there with maureen of a friday Saturday night...

FYP

jezzer

JaseBelleVie wrote: »

Just echoing Hitchens' story myself a bit.

I never met Charlie Haughey, but my father did a bit. And he (to this day) adores the man. I went for a bite to eat with my father last Friday evening and the topic of politics and all that came up. I have been knocked back several pegs over the last few years by the performance of my own party of choice (Labour), which contrasts with my father's die hard loyalty to his own (Fianna Fáil).

Listening to my father, though, it is easy to see why so many people were so taken in by "The Boss". He may have been 5' 6" and to many people resembled something that came out of the Mines of Mordor, but in person, it was a different ball game. In person, he was meant to have character, charisma and charm like no other politician in Ireland's history (perhaps barring the likes of Bertie Ahern and Brian Crowley [both of whom I have met]). CJH was already in an exalted status with my father even before he ever met him. But my father said that whenever he met him (which was quite often as my father was a really active party member throughout the 80's and 90's), it was like sitting down and talking with your oldest, closest friend.

Despite myself and despite my loathing of most things Fianna Fáil (my father being a definite exception!), I could not help but be drawn in and completely captured by the occasions that I met the two I've mentioned above (Crowley and Ahern). They both just have "it". Whatever "it" is, I don't know. But I was amazed at how personable, charming, open and friendly both men were. I had it in my head that I was going to be frosty and cold to them. But I melted on the spot once I got the big handshake and the smile and the charming patter. Maybe I'm a simpleton and easily led and easily pleased, but I find that once you get to talk to someone, see them up close and get a feeling for who they are (even if the side you see is simply their "political face"), it becomes harder to hate them.

I'm assuming that this is the effect that CJH had upon people up and down the country when at his zenith of power. Alluring and intoxicating.

However, power-mad and avaricious does not even begin to describe the darker side, however.

This is more commonly known as the ability to fool the people...a word for everyone, kiss a babys head, put the arm round an auld granny....the sickening thing is that back then, if the next door neighbour carried on like haughey did people would look upon them as the devil, going off and having extra marital affairs, corruption etc....however the same people glorified haughey, he could do no wrong, the nowadays equivalent would be like how silly young ones act around the likes of one direction etc, back then people idolised politicians like pop stars, now its just pop stars, auld ones and young ones are the easiest target markets, easy to fool, some men of course too, just ask brian cowan, niall horan or daniel o donnell....

jezzer

fryup wrote: »

i heard he was knocking up the daughter of a pub landlord and was caught in the act by said landlord and given a hiding

was that the morning of the budget in '70? that would make sense as to why he was in a pub in the morning time....

jezzer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The accent is not spot on in this I think, but the intonations are good.

Born in mayo but grew up in Fairview, Dublin north-east.

He tried to imitate his father in law's (Sean Lemass) way of speaking so this is why it sounds a bit odd!

yes he was bron in mayo and grew up in donnycarney on dublins northside, however, as the statesman he saw himself as, he was never going to have a dub or culchie accent, rather he protruded a more refined accent, he accentuated words in the wrong places and he had a very unusual walk which gillen has got spot on, regarding gillen, i thought his acting in love/hate as john boy was dubious, however i think he is magnificent as charlie...

who the fug

jezzer wrote: »

This is more commonly known as the ability to fool the people...a word for everyone, kiss a babys head, put the arm round an auld granny....the sickening thing is that back then, if the next door neighbour carried on like haughey did people would look upon them as the devil, going off and having extra marital affairs, corruption etc....however the same people glorified haughey, he could do no wrong, the nowadays equivalent would be like how silly young ones act around the likes of one direction etc, back then people idolised politicians like pop stars, now its just pop stars, auld ones and young ones are the easiest target markets, easy to fool, some men of course too, just ask brian cowan, niall horan or daniel o donnell....

My arse we fecking did , Halls Pictorial Weekly, D Morgan etc were very popular even if RTE were spineless, then as now politicians were viewed with contempt be the majority of the population.

The party faithful where viewed with amusement

Mind you I still would love to know what Dick Spring Father did to me mother, she hated that ****

jezzer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Mitterrand

Sure yer man François_Mitterrand has two mistresses on the go Anne Pingeot who was brought to Inishvickillane with Terry and Charlie in the drama.

Francois also had another one Christina Forsne a Swedish journalist: plus " had two children as results of extra-marital affairs: a daughter, Mazarine (born 1974) with his mistress Anne Pingeot, and a son, Hravn Forsne (born 1988), with Swedish journalist Christina Forsne. Hravn Forsne is currently running for a seat in the Swedish parliamentary election.":D

back in the 80's protection wasn't available therefore surely haughey, who seemed to have been very active in the bedroom department, much have a few illegitimate children around the place???

HeidiHeidi

jezzer wrote: »

back in the 80's protection wasn't available therefore surely haughey, who seemed to have been very active in the bedroom department, much have a few illegitimate children around the place???

I'm quite sure it was available to some who knew where/how to look for it!

jezzer

who the fug wrote: »

My arse we fecking did , Halls Pictorial Weekly, D Morgan etc were very popular even if RTE were spineless, then as now politicians were viewed with contempt be the majority of the population.

The party faithful where viewed with amusement

Mind you I still would love to know what Dick Spring Father did to me mother, she hated that ****

Dermot Morgans scrap saturday was ousted at the behest of haughey...he was too close to the truth...the majority of the older generation looked upon politicians as idols....

who the fug

jezzer wrote: »

back in the 80's protection wasn't available therefore surely haughey, who seemed to have been very active in the bedroom department, much have a few illegitimate children around the place???

CJ brought in contraceptives for married couples when he was minster for health in 1978 so they where available.

jezzer

who the fug wrote: »

CJ brought in contraceptives for married couples when he was minster for health in 1978 so they where available.

ah, right, so that would have suited him perfectly then!

what did he call it? an irish solution to an irish problem!!!

who the fug

jezzer wrote: »

Dermot Morgans scrap saturday was ousted at the behest of haughey...he was too close to the truth...the majority of the older generation looked upon politicians as idols....

Is not my experience of the older generation growing up in the eighties.

jezzer

who the fug wrote: »

Is not my experience of the older generation growing up in the eighties.

Well it is mine and a lot of others due to the fact that charlie remained elected for a long period of time...

Heraldoffreeent

jezzer wrote: »

Yes that was it...it also showed that he did as he wanted...he skipped out of abbeyville at half eleven at night after the late late show and went in to tip terry keane in the burlington....not exactly the life of your average man in the 80's which would stereotypically be bridget and eamon sat on the couch smoking fags looking at gaybo on the latelate introduce sex to the irish nation....charlie was already well ahead of that game.....no chance of him sat there with maureen of a friday night...

Meh, Eamonn'd be more likely down the pub gettin hammered, watchin lads playin' darts, and complaining about the cost of everything while ordering his 15th pint of harp before drivin' home in the Hillman hunter for a sangich and a spot of wife batin' before going to bed.

brooke 2

jezzer wrote: »

back in the 80's protection wasn't available therefore surely haughey, who seemed to have been very active in the bedroom department, much have a few illegitimate children around the place???

At least one politician, of whom I know, put his pregnant girlfriend on the plane to
England for an abortion. She was devastated and traumatised by the experience.
That was back in the eighties.

Snickers Man

boosabum wrote: »

who can forget Boris and Tanya

Has anyone got any clips of Boris and Tanya? I never saw them (as an 80s emigrant) but I heard a lot about them. Would love to see them.

I believe Boris was played by Stanley Townsend, who is quite a well known face on TV and screen now.

Heraldoffreeent

jezzer wrote: »

back then people idolised politicians like pop stars, now its just pop stars, auld ones and young ones are the easiest target markets, easy to fool,

It didn't stop back then, look at Clinton and Obama.

Many Irish people even think Enda Kenny has a brain.

Heraldoffreeent

jezzer wrote: »

This is more commonly known as the ability to fool the people...a word for everyone, kiss a babys head, put the arm round an auld granny....the sickening thing is that back then, if the next door neighbour carried on like haughey did people would look upon them as the devil, going off and having extra marital affairs, corruption etc....

All that stuff was applicable to Bill Clinton when he visited here as President, and he was still treated like a superstar.

Kunkka

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

All that stuff was applicable to Bill Clinton when he visited here as President, and he was still treated like a superstar.

His official visit in 1995? Nothing had been truly confirmed by then. Rumors yes but nothing solid.

gormdubhgorm

jezzer wrote: »

back in the 80's protection wasn't available therefore surely haughey, who seemed to have been very active in the bedroom department, much have a few illegitimate children around the place???

If he could arrange gun smuggling, charvet shirts, and have banks write off debts for him, I think getting the morning after pill/rubber would have been no bother to him!

Apparently there was a loophole in the ban of the sale contraceptives anyway 1935-1978. "Owning and using contraceptive devices and pills was always legal, but they could not be sold or imported legally after a 1935 Act.[2] During this time a loophole was used, where a device such as a condom could not be "offered for sale", but a buyer could be "invited to treat" to buy it. Also people made donations to family planning associations to obtain contraception as a "gift". The reality for almost all of the population was that contraception was illegal, and few outlets wanted to stock a product that could bring the attention of the police or public opprobrium." See below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland


However there were reforms reagarding sales by the man himself in 1978 :

"In 1978 the Health (Family Planning) Bill was introduced by Charles Haughey. This bill limited the provision of contraceptives to bona fide "family planning or for adequate medical reasons".A controversial part of the bill was that contraceptives could only be dispensed by a pharmacist on the presentation of a valid medical prescription from a practising doctor. It is often wrongly stated that the recipient of the prescription had to be married, but the legislation required no such terms. "

In saying that though maybe we should be on the look-out for any individual with a prominent nose, beady little eyes with flair and charisma. Like this guy birds of feather.jpg

Snickers Man

who the fug wrote: »

CJ brought in contraceptives for married couples when he was minster for health in 1978 so they where available.

Yes but only by medical prescription!!!!!

For harmless bits of rubber. It was a ridiculously impertinent granting of absurd and undeserved moral power to the medical profession.

In fairness, the best doctors at the time said so. That administering condoms to consenting adults was none of their business and they shouldn't be brought into it.

Heraldoffreeent

Kunkka wrote: »

His official visit in 1995? Nothing had been truly confirmed by then. Rumors yes but nothing solid.

In May 1994, the Independent Counsel Robert Fiske issued a grand jury subpoena to the President and his wife for all documents relating to Madison Guaranty, and Whitewater.
In August 1994, Kenneth Starr was appointed by a three-judge panel to continue the Whitewater investigation, replacing Fiske.
Ted Olson, who with several associates, launched the plan that later became known as known as the "Arkansas Project", wrote several essays for The American Spectator, accusing Clinton and many of his associates of wrongdoing. The first of those pieces appeared in February 1994, alleging a wide variety of criminal offences by the Clintons and others, including Webster Hubbell.
On May 6, 1994, former Arkansas state employee Paula Jones filed a sexual harassment suit against U.S. President Bill Clinton and former Arkansas State Police Officer Danny Ferguson. She claimed that on May 8, 1991, Clinton, then Governor of Arkansas, crudely propositioned her. She stated that David Brock claimed an Arkansas state employee named "Paula" had offered to be Clinton's mistress. Ferguson had escorted Jones to Clinton's hotel room, stood guard, and claimed that Jones said that she would not mind being Clinton's mistress.

All of this was being heavily reported both on RTE, and BBC and other British channels at the time.

Kunkka

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

In May 1994, the Independent Counsel Robert Fiske issued a grand jury subpoena to the President and his wife for all documents relating to Madison Guaranty, and Whitewater.
In August 1994, Kenneth Starr was appointed by a three-judge panel to continue the Whitewater investigation, replacing Fiske.
Ted Olson, who with several associates, launched the plan that later became known as known as the "Arkansas Project", wrote several essays for The American Spectator, accusing Clinton and many of his associates of wrongdoing. The first of those pieces appeared in February 1994, alleging a wide variety of criminal offences by the Clintons and others, including Webster Hubbell.
On May 6, 1994, former Arkansas state employee Paula Jones filed a sexual harassment suit against U.S. President Bill Clinton and former Arkansas State Police Officer Danny Ferguson. She claimed that on May 8, 1991, Clinton, then Governor of Arkansas, crudely propositioned her. She stated that David Brock claimed an Arkansas state employee named "Paula" had offered to be Clinton's mistress. Ferguson had escorted Jones to Clinton's hotel room, stood guard, and claimed that Jones said that she would not mind being Clinton's mistress.

All of this was being heavily reported both on RTE, and BBC and other British channels at the time.

Copy & paste job?

He had allegations thrown at him his whole career including when he was governor. No real proof of admittance or guilt happened until his second term as president and it probably cost Gore the election in 2000. Mainly due to the president from his own party being unable to campaign with him properly. Clinton wouldn't have got a 2nd term if he admitted to anything or if it was proven against him. I have no doubt he was guilty of most of the allegations I'm just stating the fact that the Irish people would have looked at him or Haughey differently if it was public knowledge but not just hear say as that is what the Democratic party said it was in Clinton's case. I'd imagine Haughey's cronies would have been even more loyal in defending and denying such allegations if it came out.

mzungu

jezzer wrote: »

He must have been riddled....like james bond....

I thought that bird eating scene was a step too far and rather disturbing[/b[

It was more Game of Thrones than it was Haughey!

Gits_bone

mzungu wrote: »

It was more Game of Thrones than it was Haughey!

Bird eating....are we talking about.....you know...licky licky? :eek:

jezzer

brooke 2 wrote: »

At least one politician, of whom I know, put his pregnant girlfriend on the plane to
England for an abortion. She was devastated and traumatised by the experience.
That was back in the eighties.

no way seriously? a lot of them must have been at it, i doubt its that way now? watching too much dallas i'd say

jezzer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If he could arrange gun smuggling, charvet shirts, and have banks write off debts for him, I think getting the morning after pill/rubber would have been no bother to him!

Apparently there was a loophole in the ban of the sale contraceptives anyway 1935-1978. "Owning and using contraceptive devices and pills was always legal, but they could not be sold or imported legally after a 1935 Act.[2] During this time a loophole was used, where a device such as a condom could not be "offered for sale", but a buyer could be "invited to treat" to buy it. Also people made donations to family planning associations to obtain contraception as a "gift". The reality for almost all of the population was that contraception was illegal, and few outlets wanted to stock a product that could bring the attention of the police or public opprobrium." See below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland


However there were reforms reagarding sales by the man himself in 1978 :

"In 1978 the Health (Family Planning) Bill was introduced by Charles Haughey. This bill limited the provision of contraceptives to bona fide "family planning or for adequate medical reasons".A controversial part of the bill was that contraceptives could only be dispensed by a pharmacist on the presentation of a valid medical prescription from a practising doctor. It is often wrongly stated that the recipient of the prescription had to be married, but the legislation required no such terms. "

In saying that though maybe we should be on the look-out for any individual with a prominent nose, beady little eyes with flair and charisma. Like this guy birds of feather.jpg

haha! there might be a few guys around the general swords, malahide, kinsealy area in their 40's with pointy noses, short in stature with funny walks and unusual pronunciation of random words!

padd b1975

The engine in Charlie's Merc sounds very rough.

jezzer

padd b1975 wrote: »

The engine in Charlie's Merc sounds very rough.

i'd say the back springs got a good shaking...;)

dohertys yoke was a bit shook looking

Darsad

Apologies if already posted or discussed ! Who was the gombeen hiding in the toilet ?