does the dole make people lazy?

Ave Sodalis

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Don't you get fee money for food?

And rent allowance?

Having "choices" is all because from 9-5 I'm out working. Doing a job. Working.

So I get some rewards.

If there weren't rewards to it nobody would work.

We'd all just sit at home all day. And worry about not being able to take up a new sport!

You can't expect to have the same standard of life as somebody who works hard for half the day, while you do no work. How would that work?

Yeah and that just about covers it, if you don't have any other unaccounted for expenditure.

Rent allowance doesn't apply to everyone, some people have mortgages.

It might surprise you to discover than not everyone is on the dole by choice. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the majority would rather work.

Oh and the sport thing? Yeah that was mentioned as one thing you may have to give up. The most worrying thing is food and shelter...

What you're proposing is essentially locking people up in their own homes except to buy food.

Ave Sodalis

collie0708 wrote: »

The Irish system is a joke how can anyone be unemployed for years and just keep collecting the dole without even having to look for a job.

A simple solution would be you could get a % of what you earn that after 6 months decreases, and then decreases further every few months to encourage people to look for work.

What about those that can't work?

anonyanony

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I agree.

That's why it has to be a hard line.

If you don't wanna work, fine. But your dole gets cut. A lot.

And crime goes up atm we are really paying to keep the peace and society ticking along.

The system is unsustainable and am guessing at some point in the future with population increases and fuel amounts reduction it will collapse the whole system just hope I a, gone by that time.

Whosthis

sup_dude wrote: »

What about those that can't work?

Everybody can work, some choose not to.

Ave Sodalis

Whosthis wrote: »

Everybody can work, some choose not to.

That's a load of rubbish. I know plenty of people who can't work. Get that idea out of your head.

collie0708

sup_dude wrote: »

What about those that can't work?

Who can't work for years?

Whosthis

sup_dude wrote: »

That's a load of rubbish. I know plenty of people who can't work. Get that idea out of your head.

Why can't they work? Disability doesn't cover it. "I have a bad back" get an office job.

Ave Sodalis

collie0708 wrote: »

Who can't work for years?

Yes. There are various reasons someone can't work for years, usually to do with dependants but for various other reasons too.

Whosthis

sup_dude wrote: »

usually to do with dependants

Probably should have thought about that before having kids.

Ave Sodalis

Whosthis wrote: »

Probably should have thought about that before having kids.

Yeah, I guess I should probably tell my mother that she should have realised there was a risk of my brother developing cancer and therefore wouldn't be able to work due to the years of problems that arise from that...

collie0708

sup_dude wrote: »

Yes. There are various reasons someone can't work for years, usually to do with dependants but for various other reasons too.

That's crazy logic why should other people pay taxes for others to stay home and mind their children. I respect your honesty but I think is people with your mindset is why we have some many people taking advantage of the system

Ave Sodalis

collie0708 wrote: »

That's crazy logic why should other people pay taxes for others to stay home and mind their children. I respect your honesty but I think is people with your mindset is why we have some many people taking advantage of the system

Children aren't always the dependants, and it's not always due to just because they've kids...

collie0708

sup_dude wrote: »

Children aren't always the dependants, and it's not always due to just because they've kids...

I think you may be confused the dole( unemployment benefit) is not the solution to the situations are describing. I do however agree the state should support people who are this situation

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Ave Sodalis

collie0708 wrote: »

I think you may be confused the dole( unemployment benefit) is not the solution to the situations are describing. I do however agree the state should support people who are this situation

But they don't. So right now, what you suggested will not work.

Mr. teddywinkles

If you really want to know and are that desperate to know what its like. Pack the job in and find out. Come back in 6 months to a year and relay the experience to us. Simples 😊

Chancer3001

No

Or you could get a job and see "the great life" we are living

collie0708

sup_dude wrote: »

But they don't. So right now, what you suggested will not work.

Of course my solution works I have already said the state should support the situations you described. There are plenty people who are long term unemployed who simply choose not to work because it's not worth their while for the small financial benefit they would receive. Something needs to be done to make this behaviour less attractive and encourage people to work.

Ave Sodalis

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Or you could get a job and see "the great life" we are living

Your logic is still not adding up. Unemployment was at 4% during the boom, it's now at 11.5% which means about 7.5% of people unemployed had jobs before the recession. That 4% wasn't consistent and therefore wasn't the same people the whole time. Now that gives you a very small percentage of the population that have never worked and therefore doesn't know what it's like to work. So yeah, most people know the "great life" you're living which is why most people do not like being unemployed.

Ave Sodalis

collie0708 wrote: »

Of course my solution works I have already said the state should support the situations you described. There are plenty people who are long term unemployed who simply choose not to work because it's not worth their while for the small financial benefit they would receive. Something needs to be done to make this behaviour less attractive and encourage people to work.

No it won't, because the state (whether it should or not) does not have any support for people like that other than the dole so cutting that will leave them in a pretty bad place. Painting everyone with the same brush because of a minority of people is not the way forward.

collie0708

sup_dude wrote: »

No it won't, because the state (whether it should or not) does not have any support for people like that other than the dole so cutting that will leave them in a pretty bad place. Painting everyone with the same brush because of a minority of people is not the way forward.

Do you have a better idea that what I'm suggesting? I see it all the time in my work place people turning down extra hours as it would impact there social welfare even if they were to be offered a new contract with more hours permantly they refuse.... Anyone who believes that there is not a minority of people on the dole by choice is naive.

anonyanony

collie0708 wrote: »

Do you have a better idea that what I'm suggesting? I see it all the time in my work place people turning down extra hours as it would impact there social welfare even if they were to be offered a new contract with more hours permantly they refuse.... Anyone who believes that there is not a minority of people on the dole by choice is naive.

It really depends on the hrs but sometimes if you take a few extra hours you could end up 50-70 worse of then standard dole.

With your rent or mortgage it would be impossible to take the hours, it's like people over Christmas offered argos jobs, they got offered 2hrs a day over 5 days, as they worked over three days hours did not matter they could not topup the difference and could not take the job as they would be getting €90 a week also it's not they would get more later they would be unemployed again in feb

Ave Sodalis

collie0708 wrote: »

Do you have a better idea that what I'm suggesting? I see it all the time in my work place people turning down extra hours as it would impact there social welfare even if they were to be offered a new contract with more hours permantly they refuse.... Anyone who believes that there is not a minority of people on the dole by choice is naive.

How about going after the people causing the problems rather than everyone? Are you telling me that my family would have to leave home to go god knows where, with a child with behavioural problems, and maybe even end up starving on the streets, on top of absolutely everything else we've been through, all because a few people don't wanna work? Because that is exactly what would happen if you keep cutting the dole.

Believing that living on the dole is a nice life that most people would choose is what's naive. Have you ever had to be on it, or be part of a family on it? I'm going to guess not because you have no idea what it's like...

braddun

no I get up at 12pm and head to the bar,at 5 I walk home for my dinner

Vandango

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Nice of the tax payers to buy Xmas stuff for every dole person in the country.

Hope they enjoy the tree and presents and stuff.

My good deed done for the month!

No doubt you'll be grateful, if you end up on the dole yourself someday.

compo1

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Isn't there an extra disability allowance??

No. Only one SW payment is allowed, and DA is same as dole.

suicide_circus

Being on the dole when you want to work can certainly be soul destroying but I don't think it "makes" people lazy. You either have a work ethic or you dont.
Take the 4% of the population on the dole during the boom. 4% of a population of working age of say 2 million, that's 80,000 people. These are the welfare class, people happy to let the state to provide for them and their offspring 100%. These people were not made lazy by the dole.

And let us not forget the 37% increase in people unable to work due to developing a disability since 2006 and now on disability payments. That is 55, 000 people who since 2006 are suddenly unable to work. You'd swear a reactor in Sellafield had gone into meltdown sending radiation across the country.

Ave Sodalis

suicide_circus wrote: »

Take the 4% of the population on the dole during the boom. 4% of a population of working age of say 2 million, that's 80,000 people. These are the welfare class, people happy to let the state to provide for them and their offspring 100%. These people were not made lazy by the dole.

The 4% wasn't static though. It included people between jobs. So lets take 1% for those between jobs at a time. It doesn't include the likes of what I was talking about above, so lets give that another 1%. How about people who can't find work or weren't qualified enough for work? Lets stick them in at .5%. That leaves 30000 people who weren't bothered worked. That's 1.5% of the population. Now if you consider the fact that a country needs unemployment in small amounts, it's not too bad. Now, since the economy collapsed, that rate has gone up as for as 14% or so, it's now gone down to 11.1% which means a large proportion of the population umemployed are that way due to the economy collapse. How much of that percentage has been static since the collapse? I don't know.

It's also interesting to note that despite the whole single mother bashing rubbish that goes on (not here yet thankfully), males make up a higher proportion if the unemployed than females...

boardsuser1

No

Some people who never worked are also people with criminal convictions, some of a minor and historic nature, they can't get a job over something stupid done many years ago.it's not an open and shut case

Chancer3001

No

KC161 wrote: »

Some people who never worked are also people with criminal convictions, some of a minor and historic nature, they can't get a job over something stupid done many years ago.it's not an open and shut case

But that's their own fault

boardsuser1

No

Chancer3001 wrote: »

But that's their own fault

Everyone makes mistakes some more than others, it doesn't mean you should still pay a price for it 20 years later, or are you one of these people who swears by making ex convicts suffer for life regardless of the offence? Thats why those kind of people never come off the dole

Chancer3001

No

Couldn't they drive a taxi?

Job right there....

Or be self employed?

Get off the dole.

Putin

Robsweezie wrote: »

does the dole make people lazy?

More importantly does Boards.ie make people stupid?

Blue Whale

You have to be careful with the dole amount cause you don't want people to turn to crime. I dont care what anyone says there's not a job for everybody who wants to work during a recession.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

boardsuser1

No

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Nope. Criminal convictions means no taxi licence.

Not automatically but it's another hoop to jump through

boardsuser1

No

This thread needs a poll

Henlars67

Not having a job is demoralising and causes frustration and depression, a loss of confidence and self worth.

If the dole wasn't there those feelings would be much much worse.

MRnotlob606

IM SPENDING YOU HARD EARNED TAXES ON KNITTED UNDERWEAR HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Robsweezie

KC161 wrote: »

This thread needs a poll

poll is up, get voting

NotASheeple

Putin wrote: »

More importantly does Boards.ie make people stupid?

I'm guessing that would be a yes.

Annasopra

Robsweezie wrote: »

do you think dole payments cause people to rest on their laurels in terms of jobseeking and employment?


(oh look, yes it IS another dole thread, deal with it :pac:)

For me I would say No

I was unemployed for 5 years - in that time I completed a higher certificate that I was halfway through, I did a masters, I did two fetac level 6 certificates, I did a 6 month jobbridge scheme, I did a 12 month community employment scheme, I registered with the local employment service, I volunteered with numerous organisations, I tailored my cv to every single job application, I sent out thousands of job applications and attended quite a few interviews.

I dont think you could say that I was lazy and resting on my laurels. There may have been some times when I took a lazy day and ranted at people who started dole threads in here but I think was well justified when I read about the wonderful lifestyle I was supposedly having cause the dole paid too much and how I was an unmotivated sponger who didnt want a job.

crusher000

Does working make people greedy and materialistic ? I have a job btw.

Streetwalker

The worst thing about the dole is the fecking eejits looking down on you. Feel sorry for anyone on it now as there is just zero proper jobs available at present that pay a living wage.

The Corinthian

No

The Dole can make people lazy, but then again, give people the opportunity and they'll get often lazy without it. For example self employment from home is not for everyone - some who try will end up getting up late, and looking like the unibomber, in their underpants within a few weeks of trying it, and before long will have to get a job because they just can't maintain any kind of discipline to get the actual work done.

In short, some need to be pushed constantly, otherwise they do get lazy and it doesn't matter whether they're self employed, living off independent means (like inheritance) or on the Dole. Others will be able to motivate themselves regardless of their circumstances.

So the Dole can make people lazy, but typically only those who lack the self discipline and motivation not to be anyway.

Streetwalker wrote: »

The worst thing about the dole is the fecking eejits looking down on you. Feel sorry for anyone on it now as there is just zero proper jobs available at present that pay a living wage.

No one is entitled to a proper job. Society, and government, may aspire to supply jobs or proper jobs to all its citizens but it cannot guarantee it realistically. So as an individual, you may choose to hold out for a better role, but at the end of the day we all live in the Real World where those jobs may not be available, or we may not be qualified enough to get them (at least for now) and so we take what we can. Otherwise it becomes an indulgence.

In short, not everyone grows up to be an astronaut. Deal with it.

BetterThanThou

Personally, I find people coming fresh out of school/college will often go on the dole and become too comfortable on it. And then spend years, and potentially even the remainder of their life on it. However, people who had a job and have lost work, will usually only spend a few weeks/months on it before finding another job. One of my aunts has never worked, she's nearly 50 now and has spent her entire life on the welfare. There's always going to be people like her, personally, I think the welfare should cut you off after about 2 years(even at that, I don't see why anyone should be on welfare for 2 years, I'm personally not even 20 yet, and multiple jobs have come my way without me even looking), or even employ a food stamp system as there is in the United States. There should not be the possibility to spend 30 years of your life on the welfare, claiming hundreds of thousands while contributing back nothing.

AudreyHepburn

In some cases yes it. It's naive to try and deny there are some people in the dole who's only desire is to sponge of the state for all they're worth.

In other cases I think people just seem to think that no jobs in their particular sector means no jobs at all and don't bother looking. There are plenty of jobs out there but you sometimes have to be willing to step outside your comfort zone.

And of course there are those who just get so demoralized that they can't see a way out.

You can't really tar them all with on brush.

ThunbergsAreGo

No

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

For me I would say No

I was unemployed for 5 years - in that time I completed a higher certificate that I was halfway through, I did a masters, I did two fetac level 6 certificates, I did a 6 month jobbridge scheme, I did a 12 month community employment scheme, I registered with the local employment service, I volunteered with numerous organisations, I tailored my cv to every single job application, I sent out thousands of job applications and attended quite a few interviews.

I dont think you could say that I was lazy and resting on my laurels. There may have been some times when I took a lazy day and ranted at people who started dole threads in here but I think was well justified when I read about the wonderful lifestyle I was supposedly having cause the dole paid too much and how I was an unmotivated sponger who didnt want a job.

I think it shows just like there are lazy people who work, there are lazy people on the dole. I like to think thats what I would do if i was to find myself in that unemployed but everyone reacts differently. It does surprise me that people who are long term unemployed dont make more of the education opportunities available to them.

AudreyHepburn

Streetwalker wrote: »

The worst thing about the dole is the fecking eejits looking down on you. Feel sorry for anyone on it now as there is just zero proper jobs available at present that pay a living wage.

Not true at all. There may not be jobs in your particular sector but that doesn't mean there aren't jobs.

Try and think outside the box a bit.

steddyeddy

Any sort of free money can demotivate people. Teenagers in UCD who are handed money for rent ect by parents can lack motivation.