European SuperLeague - What Are Your Thoughts?

Dayum

With FIFA changing the way the International game is played, a lot of people are starting to talk about the European SuperLeague again and how far off this inevitability we now are...

Everyone from Arsene Wenger to corporate sponsors want it; the reason being that the cash involved would lift the major clubs into the financial stratosphere and at the end of the day the modern game is all about money.

Here's the set up:

A European SuerLeague would operate just as the Premier League or La Liga does now - 20 teams, 38 games. The only difference being: the 20 slots would be filled by Europe's finest. The Champions League would be done away with and the clubs participating in the SuperLeague wouldn't play in their respective domestic national leagues i.e - City, United, Chelsea, Pool would no longer play in the Premiership. But they can be relegated from the ESL down to the Premier League and promoted from the Premier League to the ESL via a top 4 finish and subsequent play-off with other domestic league prospects across Europe. The only contact these superclubs have with other domestic teams will be in the F.A Cup.

Now, a lot of criticism about this set up comes in the form that fans of smaller clubs won't have those "big day outs" and that it would kill domestic leagues but I disagree. In fact, I think it would do the exact opposite; I think it would propel smaller clubs and empower them.

Let's take Celtic or Ajax as two examples:

Celtic are second only to Manchester United in Britain in terms of weekly support turning up at Parkhead. Yet, because they're trapped in the SPL (a small league with little competition) they cannot live up to their full potential. The same with Ajax - a great footballing institution that has produced numerous household names from it's academy and yet it's trapped in a fringe league with little financial punch.

The ESL wouldn't be a closed shop. Clubs can be relegated and promoted from and to it so that's why I can't see it destroying the domestic leagues.

Are you in favour of the EuropeanSuperLeague or not?!

AgileMyth

Ajax and Celtic are your examples of small clubs. Right.

Dayum

AgileMyth wrote: »

Ajax and Celtic are your examples of small clubs. Right.

I was going to include another paragraph about your smaller clubs but thought is was too long as is so I just went straight into giving examples of teams not living up to their potential. But I suppose they're small fish when contrasted with other European superclubs.

thelad95

Dayum wrote: »

With FIFA changing the way the International game is played, a lot of people are starting to talk about the European SuperLeague again and how far off this inevitability we now are...

Everyone from Arsene Wenger to corporate sponsors want it; the reason being that the cash involved would lift the major clubs into the financial stratosphere and at the end of the day the modern game is all about money.

Here's the set up:

A European SuerLeague would operate just as the Premier League or La Liga does now - 20 teams, 38 games. The only difference being: the 20 slots would be filled by Europe's finest. The Champions League would be done away with and the clubs participating in the SuperLeague wouldn't play in their respective domestic national leagues i.e - City, United, Chelsea, Pool would no longer play in the Premiership. But they can be relegated from the ESL down to the Premier League and promoted from the Premier League to the ESL via a top 4 finish and subsequent play-off with other domestic league prospects across Europe. The only contact these superclubs have with other domestic teams will be in the F.A Cup.

Now, a lot of criticism about this set up comes in the form that fans of smaller clubs won't have those "big day outs" and that it would kill domestic leagues but I disagree. In fact, I think it would do the exact opposite; I think it would propel smaller clubs and empower them.

Let's take Celtic or Ajax as two examples:

Celtic are second only to Manchester United in Britain in terms of weekly support turning up at Parkhead. Yet, because they're trapped in the SPL (a small league with little competition) they cannot live up to their full potential. The same with Ajax - a great footballing institution that has produced numerous household names from it's academy and yet it's trapped in a fringe league with little financial punch.

The ESL wouldn't be a closed shop. Clubs can be relegated and promoted from and to it so that's why I can't see it destroying the domestic leagues.

Are you in favour of the EuropeanSuperLeague or not?!

Dayum

thelad95 wrote: »

No.

Riveting rebuttal old chap.

bucketybuck

Its a retarded idea worthy of the OP.

RedemptionZ

It'd be more entertaining. The standard would be better. Would ruin a lot of clubs financially and would enter into the American style of lifeless franchises as opposed to local teams with communities, mind you most big clubs have enough foreign fans to fit right into that model.

I personally think high level football has lost a lot of the values that make the sport great because of the money involved nowadays so I wouldn't have a problem with it per se if they could make it work. But I don't see how it could be feasible to have say 3 divisions without ruining the domestic leagues for the unlucky teams who don't make it into the elite 60 odd teams.

Also I pressed yes by accident so discard my vote.

Dayum

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its a retarded idea worthy of the OP.

This is not my idea.

This is a proposal several years in the making. I didn't think it up. The big clubs are in talks about it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

It would probably kill off the domestic game in the countries who's top teams participate in this Super League. What would be the point of having a domestic season if the best team can't participate.It wouldn't be worth winning.

Surely the best way to improve the professional game would be to copy American sports and have salary caps and greater profit sharing agreements.it would mean certain clubs couldn't stockpile all the best players and the spread of talent would be wider and more teams could be competitive in their own domestic leagues and in europe.

Agent Coulson

So the top 4/5 teams from England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France then 1/2 teams from Portugal, Holland, Russia and then the top team from Scotland, Belgium and a number of other European Countries.

That is about that is a minimum of 30 teams in this Super League.... it won't happen.

thelad95

Instead of this, why not narrow down the Champions League to maybe 16 elite teams instead of having the likes of FC Cluj and Dinamo Zagreb knocking about in the group stages?

Lets face it, this superleague is never likely to happen.

Richard Hillman

I think it is a bit lucacrous at this stage that we do not have a proper super league. Domestic competitions are becoming very monotonous and their leagues are full of passenger clubs and players.

At the moment I am watching Part Deux of "Super Sunday" with Aston Villa V Leicester. In all honesty who the hell cares about Aston Villa or Leicester. Villa especially are just a passenger club. They offer nothing to the premier league. It seems a bit a stupid that they are availing of the tv deal when nobody wants to watch them. On the other channel it is Barcelona against Espanyol. I have not interest in that either as Barca will probably wipe them off the map.

It would also be great to see the standard of worldwide football progress. I feel that the football is too diluted in regard to quality. Getting all the best players in the same league would be fearcely entertaining. Going back to Aston Villa, what is the point of somebody like Benteke playing for Villa. I would rather see him playing at an elite club.

thelad95

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think it is a bit lucacrous at this stage that we do not have a proper super league. Domestic competitions are becoming very monotonous and their leagues are full of passenger clubs and players.

At the moment I am watching Part Deux of "Super Sunday" with Aston Villa V Leicester. In all honesty who the hell cares about Aston Villa or Leicester. Villa especially are just a passenger club. They offer nothing to the premier league. It seems a bit a stupid that they are availing of the tv deal when nobody wants to watch them. On the other channel it is Barcelona against Espanyol. I have not interest in that either as Barca will probably wipe them off the map.

It would also be great to see the standard of worldwide football progress. I feel that the football is too diluted in regard to quality. Getting all the best players in the same league would be fearcely entertaining. Going back to Aston Villa, what is the point of somebody like Benteke playing for Villa. I would rather see him playing at an elite club.

Their fans?

I wouldn't be particualrly averse to the idea as long as it's managed properly by UEFA and there is clear promotion/relegation opportunities from the domestic leagues.

It'd kill domestic leagues, and proper fans would suffer.

Can't imagine too many hardcore fans travelling to many away games.

Can't see it happening any time soon

ArmaniJeanss

Is the league format in the OP something you came up with yourself, because I haven't seen it discussed anywhere else. Its completely flawed obviously, so maybe your own creation that you haven't thought through.
You say 'a lot of people are talking about this' - but its actually about a decade since I've seen this sort of thing put forward as a serious proposal by any of the big clubs. Any links to it being seriously discussed?

And what do you mean by 'FIFA changing the way the international game is played'. What changes?

NIMAN

thelad95 wrote: »

Instead of this, why not narrow down the Champions League to maybe 16 elite teams instead of having the likes of FC Cluj and Dinamo Zagreb knocking about in the group stages?

Lets face it, this superleague is never likely to happen.

I always thought the knockouts was done arse about face in the CL.

Have the knockouts first, get rid of the weaker teams, then when all the top teams are left, have the groups, where every game will be a 'big' one and you'll have more big teams playing each other.

anncoates

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In all honesty who the hell cares about Aston Villa or Leicester. b.

You keep thinking the summit of idiocy has been reached in here and then as you reach the top, a taller mountain looms into view.

bucketybuck

anncoates wrote: »

You keep thinking the summit of idiocy has been reached in here and then as you reach the top, a taller mountain looms into view.

Some people just simply haven't got a clue, they have no understanding of what makes the game actually work. Give them their super league and as the game fails they still would not have the faintest idea why it was happening.

The worst thing is that I have little faith in the likes of UEFA or FIFA to be any less short sighted.

CSF

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think it is a bit lucacrous at this stage that we do not have a proper super league. Domestic competitions are becoming very monotonous and their leagues are full of passenger clubs and players.

At the moment I am watching Part Deux of "Super Sunday" with Aston Villa V Leicester. In all honesty who the hell cares about Aston Villa or Leicester. Villa especially are just a passenger club. They offer nothing to the premier league. It seems a bit a stupid that they are availing of the tv deal when nobody wants to watch them. On the other channel it is Barcelona against Espanyol. I have not interest in that either as Barca will probably wipe them off the map.

It would also be great to see the standard of worldwide football progress. I feel that the football is too diluted in regard to quality. Getting all the best players in the same league would be fearcely entertaining. Going back to Aston Villa, what is the point of somebody like Benteke playing for Villa. I would rather see him playing at an elite club.

Jesus.

anncoates

thelad95 wrote: »

Instead of this, why not narrow down the Champions League to maybe 16 elite teams instead of having the likes of FC Cluj and Dinamo Zagreb knocking about in the group stages?

Another shocker.

If you're being ironic though, apologies.

Ulysses Gaze

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Going back to Aston Villa, what is the point of somebody like Benteke playing for Villa. I would rather see him playing at an elite club.

He can play for an Elite club if an elite club are willing to pay what Villa value him at.

Not like Villa have been beating off suitors with a stick, so far.

CSF

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

He can play for an Elite club if an elite club are willing to pay what Villa value him at.

Not like Villa have been beating off suitors with a stick, so far.

No no, how dare Villa have the audacity to have a good player

thelad95

anncoates wrote: »

If you're being ironic though, apologies.

It's not really a shocker, it's a fairly widely held view. There's been some shocking teams in the CL group stages in recent years that add nothing to the competition.

CSF

thelad95 wrote: »

It's not really a shocker, it's a fairly widely held view. There's been some shocking teams in the CL group stages in recent years that add nothing to the competition.

Please explain this 'add nothing to the competition' concept.

thelad95

CSF wrote: »

Please explain this 'add nothing to the competition' concept.

They're uncompetitive.

Dayum

Real Madrid Vs. Manchester United, Chelsea Vs. Bayern Munich, Barcelona Vs. Manchester City.....I'd rather look forward to these games on a Sunday afternoon than ****ing Swansea Vs. West Ham

anncoates

thelad95 wrote: »

it's a fairly widely held view. .

By whom?

CSF

thelad95 wrote: »

They're uncompetitive.

It's really interesting you say that, because over the last 3 seasons, the only team that went the group stages that went without getting a point wasn't a side from a minnow country who wouldn't be represented in this 'superleague', it was actually Marseille.

But don't let facts get in the way of your silly little argument.

citytillidie

NIMAN wrote: »

I always thought the knockouts was done arse about face in the CL.

Have the knockouts first, get rid of the weaker teams, then when all the top teams are left, have the groups, where every game will be a 'big' one and you'll have more big teams playing each other.

What like you mean how the 1st champions league went

Worked down to 8 teams, then two groups with the group winners playing in the Final

dan1895

I'd love to see this European super league. Great opportunity to enter Dublin FC into it and having them play home games out of Croker. Of coarse Croker would need tone expanded to accommodate all the fans who'll want to see this team they so very much deserve.

mikeym

The Idea is a complete Non-Runner.

GLaDOS

dan1895 wrote: »

I'd love to see this European super league. Great opportunity to enter Dublin FC into it and having them play home games out of Croker. Of coarse Croker would need tone expanded to accommodate all the fans who'll want to see this team they so very much deserve.

You're thinking too small, Leinster FC is the way to go.

anncoates

ScienceNerd wrote: »

You're thinking too small, Leinster FC is the way to go.

Four Green Fields FC.

The Golden Miller

Dayum wrote: »

With FIFA changing the way the International game is played, a lot of people are starting to talk about the European SuperLeague again and how far off this inevitability we now are...

Everyone from Arsene Wenger to corporate sponsors want it; the reason being that the cash involved would lift the major clubs into the financial stratosphere and at the end of the day the modern game is all about money.

Here's the set up:

A European SuerLeague would operate just as the Premier League or La Liga does now - 20 teams, 38 games. The only difference being: the 20 slots would be filled by Europe's finest. The Champions League would be done away with and the clubs participating in the SuperLeague wouldn't play in their respective domestic national leagues i.e - City, United, Chelsea, Pool would no longer play in the Premiership. But they can be relegated from the ESL down to the Premier League and promoted from the Premier League to the ESL via a top 4 finish and subsequent play-off with other domestic league prospects across Europe. The only contact these superclubs have with other domestic teams will be in the F.A Cup.

Now, a lot of criticism about this set up comes in the form that fans of smaller clubs won't have those "big day outs" and that it would kill domestic leagues but I disagree. In fact, I think it would do the exact opposite; I think it would propel smaller clubs and empower them.

Let's take Celtic or Ajax as two examples:

Celtic are second only to Manchester United in Britain in terms of weekly support turning up at Parkhead. Yet, because they're trapped in the SPL (a small league with little competition) they cannot live up to their full potential. The same with Ajax - a great footballing institution that has produced numerous household names from it's academy and yet it's trapped in a fringe league with little financial punch.

The ESL wouldn't be a closed shop. Clubs can be relegated and promoted from and to it so that's why I can't see it destroying the domestic leagues.

Are you in favour of the EuropeanSuperLeague or not?!

It would never work. You say it would improve domestic football but it wouldn't for a number of reasons that have been mentioned but this one hasn't. If all the English, Spanish, Italian clubs kept finishing in the top positions and just got richer and bigger, these teams would never be threatened with relegation. So the league in that country would definitely deteriorate. What would the remaining teams from that country have to play for? The chances are that the winner would never be promoted, if the teams in the ESL from that country aren't ever getting relegated

Dayum

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It would never work. You say it would improve domestic football but it wouldn't for a number of reasons that have been mentioned but this one hasn't. If all the English, Spanish, Italian clubs kept finishing in the top positions and just got richer and bigger, these teams would never be threatened with relegation. So the league in that country would definitely deteriorate. What would the remaining teams from that country have to play for? The chances are that the winner would never be promoted, if the teams in the ESL from that country aren't ever getting relegated

I think you've missed the point. There would be no predetermined set number of slots for each country. By all accounts, there could be 10 English teams and no Italian. So it makes no difference whether or not PSG were relegated from the ESL - Juventus, having topped SerieA and gone through playoffs with other table toppers, would take their place.

DerekDGoldfish

Dayum wrote: »

I think you've missed the point. There would be no predetermined set number of slots for each country. By all accounts, there could be 10 English teams and no Italian. So it makes no difference whether or not PSG were relegated from the ESL - Juventus, having topped SerieA and gone through playoffs with other table toppers, would take their place.

If the league in each country has to wait till the end of the season to know if one of its teams was coming down or if one was going up it would have no idea how many teams it was going to have from season to season. It would be unfair on Championship/Seire B etc teams for their promotion chances to be dependent on what happened 2 divisions above them so you could have leagues top divisions with odd numbers of teams as well as to many or to few teams to do the traditional 2 games per season prevalent in most leagues.

I think the current champions league format is a good balance and a super league would really mess this up.

Dayum

DerekDGoldfish wrote: »

If the league in each country has to wait till the end of the season to know if one of its teams was coming down or if one was going up it would have no idea how many teams it was going to have from season to season. It would be unfair on Championship/Seire B etc teams for their promotion chances to be dependent on what happened 2 divisions above them so you could have leagues top divisions with odd numbers of teams as well as to many or to few teams to do the traditional 2 games per season prevalent in most leagues.

I think the current champions league format is a good balance and a super league would really mess this up.

That's a good point you make. How could they possibly counteract that situation?

anncoates

Dayum wrote: »

How could they possibly counteract that situation?

By not having it?

Richard Hillman

anncoates wrote: »

You keep thinking the summit of idiocy has been reached in here and then as you reach the top, a taller mountain looms into view.

Do you care about Aston Villa v Leicester?

Richard Hillman

Dayum wrote: »

Real Madrid Vs. Manchester United, Chelsea Vs. Bayern Munich, Barcelona Vs. Manchester City.....I'd rather look forward to these games on a Sunday afternoon than ****ing Swansea Vs. West Ham

Plus the league would attract all the better players from the teams making up the numbers in the domestic leagues. The quality of the games would be so much higher than the way they would should they all played each other tomorrow.

But apparently the people of boards are happy with Sundays of Villa v Leicester and West Ham-Swansea (even though nobody was bothered to watch the games)

Superbus

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Plus the league would attract all the better players from the teams making up the numbers in the domestic leagues. The quality of the games would be so much higher than the way they would should they all played each other tomorrow.

But apparently the people of boards are happy with Sundays of Villa v Leicester and West Ham-Swansea (even though nobody was bothered to watch the games)

They are football teams that have earned the right to be in a certain league, and the rules of that league dictate that they play each other. That's the most basic idea of the structure of football. Whether it's entertaining and of high quality or whether anyone is watching is secondary.

NIMAN

The leagues would all be a lot more interesting if they introduced a 3 foreigner rule like they had back in the hayday of Euro football. It would allow a better spread of talent across all the leagues and then you might actually have a few decent players at the likes of Villa or Napoli or Celtic.

PhlegmyMoses

The likes of England, Spain and Germany should never even consider an idea like this. Their leagues are fine and there are good sides outside the top two or three. The leagues are relatively financially stable, maybe Spain not so much, and the wealth is distributed around to keep a decent level of competition on a game by game basis.

Certain teams in Scotland, Portugal and Netherlands etc might be more interested in something like this. Even the biggest clubs are not financially powerful and some are even in precarious situations and once you get outside the top couple of teams, the quality drops off a cliff. Most of these leagues are burst anyway, so it wouldn't surprise me if the big teams jumped at the chance if something like this came about.

All that being said, it will never happen and probably for good reason.

Macavity.

I think it's an interesting idea OP, but as others have pointed out it doesn't really seem viable for various reasons already mentioned. Personally, I find there's something really special about meeting a big European club (who perhaps your team haven't played in a good number of years) in the Champions League, it's an occasion. I think this Super League would spoil that if it was a weekly thing. Apart from that, it would do away with some brilliant local derbies. It's easy to dismiss smaller teams but they have provided some really entertaining matches in the past against the top teams in the EPL/La Liga etc.

NIMAN

Agree on familiarity breeding lack of interest.

Look at the CL sure, even in recent years some teams seem to constantly be drawn in each others groups, and you end up saying "Jez not X v Y again, fed up lookin at that".

I would more prefer to see a totally open draw, let teams from each country be in each others group. Add to the spice to possible see Madrid and Barca together, or Utd and Chelsea etc.

Alternatively, how about a rule that you cannot have a team in your group that you played the previous season.

CSF

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Do you care about Aston Villa v Leicester?

How is the answer to that question relevant even if he didn't? I did, thousands of people did.

bucketybuck

Dayum wrote: »

There would be no predetermined set number of slots for each country.

And what could possibly go wrong with that...:rolleyes:

iDave

Call me old fashioned or out of touch with our betters in the upper echelons of the game but what is so fundamentally bad about every country in the world having a league + 1/2 cups. The elite from each league playing in a continental competition in tandem with their domestic league. And then elite players getting selected to play in international sides. Whats so broken about that system?

GLaDOS

iDave wrote: »

Call me old fashioned or out of touch with our betters in the upper echelons of the game but what is so fundamentally bad about every country in the world having a league + 1/2 cups. The elite from each league playing in a continental competition in tandem with their domestic league. And then elite players getting selected to play in international sides. Whats so broken about that system?

Because sometimes there might be unglamorous games on the telly. You can't expect people to put up with that.

iDave

The elite teams also wont have the chance to do it against Stoke on a cold evening in January. The ultimate test in football.

doncarlos

Would love to see this go ahead as it would destroy the premier league and may even push people away from modern football.

Have to laugh at the guy earlier that said Liverpool would be involved in this. Also how the hell would Celtic qualify? They are not anywhere near being in the top 20 sides in Europe and are little better than LOI standard.