European SuperLeague - What Are Your Thoughts?

Omackeral

Originally posted by Richard Hillman

In all honesty who the hell cares about Aston Villa or Leicester.

The good footballing people of Birmingham and Leicester who probably dedicate a good part of their lifestyle and wages to their club. These type of people mean more to football than the likes of you ever will. They're fans, you're a fanboy.

anncoates

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Do you care about Aston Villa v Leicester?

I don't support them but yes I 'care' about them and their supporters and don't see them as expendable to some armchair league.

Villa have better European pedigree than the likes of PSG and Man City by the way.

When you hear clubs like Ajax being called small clubs then you know you're dealing with hobbyists and not real football supporters.

I actually like football of all levels, perhaps a outrageous comment in here.

Although the idea is doomed, people should be careful what they wish for. Football is dependent on all its levels to stay alive as a culture no matter how much you deride everybody outside the top dozen or so fanboy clubs.

Dayum

doncarlos wrote: »

Would love to see this go ahead as it would destroy the premier league and may even push people away from modern football.

Have to laugh at the guy earlier that said Liverpool would be involved in this. Also how the hell would Celtic qualify? They are not anywhere near being in the top 20 sides in Europe and are little better than LOI standard.

People were giving examples, not sending a definitive list to UEFA.

Omackeral wrote: »

The good footballing people of Birmingham and Leicester who probably dedicate a good part of their lifestyle and wages to their club. These type of people mean more to football than the likes of you ever will. They're fans, you're a fanboy.

And what exactly would change? The only difference would be that Birmingham or Burnley would have a greater chance of doing better domestically without getting annihilated by the superclubs and the status quo.

grumpymunster

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It would never work. You say it would improve domestic football but it wouldn't for a number of reasons that have been mentioned but this one hasn't. If all the English, Spanish, Italian clubs kept finishing in the top positions and just got richer and bigger, these teams would never be threatened with relegation. So the league in that country would definitely deteriorate. What would the remaining teams from that country have to play for? The chances are that the winner would never be promoted, if the teams in the ESL from that country aren't ever getting relegated

I think that boat has already sailed, the advent of FFP basically ensures the status quo as it is with the gap widening by the year.

Omackeral

Dayum wrote: »

And what exactly would change? The only difference would be that Birmingham or Burnley would have a greater chance of doing better domestically without getting annihilated by the superclubs and the status quo.

Fcking Superclubs. Jesus Christ. Whatever this is, it's not the football that represents me. What about giant killings and upsets, is there nothing to be said for underdogs or wtf score lines against big boys. Stoke beat Arsenal over the weekend in a pulsating game. Why take that away?

Richard Hillman

doncarlos wrote: »

Would love to see this go ahead as it would destroy the premier league and may even push people away from modern football.

Have to laugh at the guy earlier that said Liverpool would be involved in this. Also how the hell would Celtic qualify? They are not anywhere near being in the top 20 sides in Europe and are little better than LOI standard.

Push people away from modern football? Oh...You're one of those types.

You know full well that kids will be dreaming of playing in a super league rather than some sort of localized league with a bunch of out of touch traditionalists in the stands.

And of course Liverpool would be in a super league. Their global clout warrants it.

Richard Hillman

Omackeral wrote: »

Fcking Superclubs. Jesus Christ. Whatever this is, it's not the football that represents me. What about giant killings and upsets, is there nothing to be said for underdogs or wtf score lines against big boys. Stoke beat Arsenal over the weekend in a pulsating game. Why take that away?

You'll end up having better games of a higher standard, involving clubs that more people want to see.

Richard Hillman

Omackeral wrote: »

The good footballing people of Birmingham and Leicester who probably dedicate a good part of their lifestyle and wages to their club. These type of people mean more to football than the likes of you ever will. They're fans, you're a fanboy.

They can still have their domestic league to keep the locals happy. Everybody else can move on with the times. They are fanboys of their clubs, I am a fan of the game of football and want to see the standard raised.

v3ttel

Dayum wrote: »

Celtic are second only to Manchester United in Britain in terms of weekly support turning up at Parkhead.

No. Just no. That might be your perception but the reality is entirely different:

Celtic's attendance for their last 3 home games:
Att: 43,787
Att: 42,553
Att: 42,800

Newcastle's attendance for their last 3 home games:
Att: 52,019
Att: 51,915
Att: 52,166

Sunderland's attendance for their last 3 home games
Att: 44,449
Att: 45,232
Att: 41,152

Second to United, only if you forget to include Newcastle, Sunderland, City, Arsenal.

iDave

Richard Hillman wrote: »

And of course Liverpool would be in a super league. Their global clout warrants it.

So entry isn't merit based, just the vague criteria of 'global clout'.

Omackeral

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They can still have their domestic league to keep the locals happy. Everybody else can move on with the times. They are fanboys of their clubs, I am a fan of the game of football and want to see the standard raised.

Local fans are football. Without them, you've no clubs in the first place. The people in the stadium are actual people, mostly from the towns and cities where the team are from. You sound like you'd be happier playing Pro Evo or watching youtube clips of Neymar.

Skylinehead

v3ttel wrote: »

No. Just no. That might be your perception but the reality is entirely different:

Celtic's attendance for their last 3 home games:
Att: 43,787
Att: 42,553
Att: 42,800

Newcastle's attendance for their last 3 home games:
Att: 52,019
Att: 51,915
Att: 52,166

Sunderland's attendance for their last 3 home games
Att: 44,449
Att: 45,232
Att: 41,152

Second to United, only if you forget to include Newcastle, Sunderland, City, Arsenal.

Liverpools is marginally higher as well.

grumpymunster

If such a league gets up and running then the bigger teams in the bigger markets will be those aimed for. By some criteria Celtic are a large team but is Scotland a big enough market? People attending matches may not be the be all and end all of such a venture. TV revenue from the domestic European market and further afield in Asia with have a large bearing one would imagine.

Using that as a basis then Liverpool would certainly be more attractive than Celtic, it may not be fair but I would imagine it would be important to the initial set up. Will it ever happen? If there is money in it then yes it will.

DaveyCakes

Obviously what needs to happen is for all football to be abolished, with the exception of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Chelsea, as the fans want to watch the elite clu... what's that? Lost to Newcastle.....? Who the hell are they?

Obviously what needs to happen is for all football to be abolished, with the exception of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Manchester City, as the fans want to watch the elite clubs (City won at the weekend, right?).

That way every match would have the superstars playing...Ronaldo, Messi, Ribery, Aguero, Zlatan.. (Paris? What's he doing wasting his and my time playing for them? That's a disgrace)

Dayum

v3ttel wrote: »

No. Just no. That might be your perception but the reality is entirely different:

Celtic's attendance for their last 3 home games:
Att: 43,787
Att: 42,553
Att: 42,800

Newcastle's attendance for their last 3 home games:
Att: 52,019
Att: 51,915
Att: 52,166

Sunderland's attendance for their last 3 home games
Att: 44,449
Att: 45,232
Att: 41,152

Second to United, only if you forget to include Newcastle, Sunderland, City, Arsenal.

I was speaking in terms of capacity. Celtic Park holds 60k. Old Trafford holds 73 or something...

Celtic are trapped in the SPL despite being a larger brand than Sunderland ffs...and receiving less money than them for the privilege.

Richard Hillman

If people care about the lesser teams as much as being let on, then they should have no problems in their own domestic leagues as the world powers play each other in a European Super League.

For the people so vehemently against the Super League, lets be honest, you will all be glued to it on TV. This forum would be full of threads about the Super League. And according to some on this thread, people will still care about Aston Villa v Leicester in their own leagues apparently.

Everyones a winner baby.

Dayum

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If people care about the lesser teams as much as being let on, then they should have no problems in their own domestic leagues as the world powers play each other in a European Super League.

For the people so vehemently against the Super League, lets be honest, you will all be glued to it on TV. This forum would be full of threads about the Super League. And according to some on this thread, people will still care about Aston Villa v Leicester in their own leagues apparently.

Everyones a winner baby.

Regardless of whether people on here want it or not, the major clubs have already talked about setting it up themselves if UEFA are not interested. It's happening. There is simply far too much money involved. Its inevitable.

Manchester United do NOT want to be playing Stoke or Sunderland. They want to be rolling in dough from weekly glamour fixtures around Europe.

anncoates

iDave wrote: »

So entry isn't merit based, just the vague criteria of 'global clout'.

And who barstool proponents of said mega league happen to support.

anncoates

Dayum wrote: »

Celtic are trapped in the SPL .

As in playing in the domestic league of the country in which Glasgow is located?

Dayum

anncoates wrote: »

As in playing in the domestic league of the country in which Glasgow is located?

For decades Celtic have fought tooth and nail to get into the Barclays Premier League. It's where the money is. Stoke earns greater money from Premiership TV deals than Celtic does despite Celtic being a bigger club - do you think this is fair? Do you think large clubs are destined to rot away in uncompetitive fringe leagues that is slowly suffocating them as a business? Celtic cannot compete in Europe, nor can Ajax. Why? Because they don't have the money and thus the clout to compete, through no fault of their own, but because their leagues do not pack the financial punch as others.

You put Celtic into the Premier League and watch them flourish as a business.

anncoates

Dayum wrote: »

do you think this is fair?

Shamrock Rovers can't play in the premier league. Neither can Brann Bergen. So what? They're not English.

I'm going to get my son in here to contribute to the thread. He likes taking with his mates about who does the fastest free kicks in the world and which player costs the most money plus he get upset if he doesn't get the best team when he plays me in FIFA.

He is 6 though, in fairness.

Dayum

anncoates wrote: »

Shamrock Rovers can't play in the premier league. Neither can Brann Bergen. So what? They're not English.

I'm going to get my son in here to contribute to the thread. He likes taking with his mates about who does the fastest free kicks in the world and which player costs the most money plus he get upset if he doesn't get the best team when he plays me in FIFA.

He is 6 though, in fairness.

And Swansea or Cardiff are not located in England either and yet play or have played in the Premier League? What exactly is your point? You're making no sense whatsoever. The only angle you're coming at this from is that "Glasgow is in Scotland - Celtic are in Glasgow - therefore, Celtic are not in England"....it's complete nonsense. Start to think outside the box for once...

anncoates

Dayum wrote: »

And Swansea or Cardiff are not located in England either and yet play or have played in the Premier League?

They shouldn't be.

IMO.

Dayum wrote: »

.it's complete nonsense.

And your shitty brainstorming-session jargon-speak isn't?

Dayum

anncoates wrote: »

They shouldn't be.

IMO.



And your shitty brainstorming-session jargon-speak isn't?

But see here's the problem....it doesn't matter what your opinion is. It doesn't matter what my opinion is. The difference between us is that I am willing to discuss how such a proposal (that is being openly considered already by the major clubs) could work while you just want to throw a tantrum in opposition to it.

bucketybuck

anncoates wrote: »

And your shitty brainstorming-session jargon-speak isn't?

Check the OP's posting history and assess his intentions here.

Omackeral

How do Belgian/Romanian/Norwegian teams get access to this league or is it a closed shop?

anncoates

Dayum wrote: »

But see here's the problem....it doesn't matter what your opinion is. It doesn't matter what my opinion is. The difference between us is that I am willing to discuss how such a proposal (that is being openly considered already by the major clubs) could work while you just want to throw a tantrum in opposition to it.

Nope, you have such a horn for the process that you're already brainstorming about it whereas I and others refute the process.

I don't think that's the way football should go because I actually go and support a domestic team through thick and thin and while I do have to realistically see football as a community business of sorts, it's miles away from the turbo-charged, generic clique that you envisage.

And as people have already pointed out, the rude health of the football pyramid in the major countries is underwritten by millions of supporters, clubs and organisations that give the game its culture and the romance that is marketed for the "brand". Just ripping off the top section wouldn't work. The majority of even the most avid barstoolers actually have an appreciation for the culture of the football structure even if they don't choose to partake in it.

Omackeral

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They can still have their domestic league to keep the locals happy.

You say that in the most ignorant and condescending way possible. Keep the locals happy. As if somehow you think Barca and Bayern are in anyway anything to you. Those people ARE football. You are not.

anncoates

What's also amusing is the patronizing assumption that the thousands of hardcore supporters of clubs like Barca, Madrid, Chelsea, United, Bayern etc would want to remove themselves from their domestic scenes (history, tradition, not to mention away travel) just to please armchair fanboys from other countries.

GLaDOS

anncoates wrote: »

What's also amusing is the patronizing assumption that the thousands of hardcore supporters of clubs like Barca, Madrid, Chelsea, United, Bayern etc would want to remove themselves from their domestic scenes (history, tradition, not to mention away travel) just to please armchair fanboys from other countries.

The obvious problem would be the removal of certain Derbys. Real v Atletico, Liverpool v Everton, Barca v Espanyol, Arsenal v Spurs, Celtic v Rangers etc. Local fans would not accept that.

Fr Tod Umptious

People should realise that a European Super league already exists in some form by way of the Champions league and Europea League

Domestic teams are willing to sacrifice domestic success in cups for example in order to qualify for the above.

And everyone seems to love the Champions league.

But in future I think there will be a couple of European Leagues as the main competitions.
A top flight super league and then lower divions, possibly regional, with domestic leagues being the qualification point for the above.

Villa will still exist but they may be playing Ajax and Celtic and similar in the 2nd tier of Europe week in week out rather than Stoke, Liverpool and Spurs

Leyton Orient will also still exist in an English domestic league.

The sun will also rise and set each day

anncoates

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The obvious problem would be the removal of certain Derbys. Real v Atletico, Liverpool v Everton, Barca v Espanyol, Arsenal v Spurs, Celtic v Rangers etc. Local fans would not accept that.

Also when you think of how well a team like Bayern straddles the commercial thing and community thing: being a massive cub with financial clout but being quite community based. Or Barca with the local political aspect.

Would they tear themselves out of the domestic scene that gives them their identity when they are already among the the biggest, wealthiest club in the world?

bucketybuck

anncoates wrote: »

Just ripping off the top section wouldn't work

What some people don't seem to understand is that the top section is only the top section because of the smaller teams below them. Its an incredibly simple concept that you think everybody would grasp instinctively but here we are.

Manchester United versus Real Madrid is not an intrinsically big match. It only becomes big when those two are the biggest fish in their respective ponds, when its two giants facing each other, and when it is a rarity. If you select twenty "big" clubs and have them play only each other then you don't actually have any "bigger" clubs, they all become the same size. "When every match is special, then no matches are special".

Where is the novelty in playing Real Madrid when you already play them home and away every season? Where is the excitement when you've already played Barcelona, Milan and Ajax in the preceding weeks? If Aston Villa are the small club nobody wants to watch now, in your super league there will still be the smaller club nobody wants to watch, you've just changed who it is. You think Spanish fans will give two hoots about the upcoming Barca v Celtic game when its Barca v Milan the week after? Like hell they will.

The idea of a European super league is so fundamentally short sighted that I can't honestly believe somebody would be so stupid as to think it is a good idea.

bucketybuck

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And everyone seems to love the Champions league.

Except this isn't true. Already there is over saturation of supposedly big games from the champions league, the group stages are already a non-event because people have seen it all before, and a large number of people would prefer the competition be shorter and with champions only as opposed to 3/4 teams from each league.

Richard Hillman

bucketybuck wrote: »

Where is the novelty in playing Real Madrid when you already play them home and away every season? Where is the excitement when you've already played Barcelona, Milan and Ajax in the preceding weeks? If Aston Villa are the small club nobody wants to watch now, in your super league there will still be the smaller club nobody wants to watch, you've just changed who it is. You think Spanish fans will give two hoots about the upcoming Barca v Celtic game when its Barca v Milan the week after? Like hell they will.

I dont think a club like Celtic would be big enough for it (maybe a sub league) but even if they were in it, they wouldnt be fielding the likes of Scott Brown and Anthony Stokes. They would be able to attract the best of the rest players around Europe. Top players at medicre clubs like Benteke, Bony etc.

I dont think the likes of Real Madrid, Barca and Bayern can get much stronger but a super league would allow all the others that are behind them catch up. The games would be of a much higher standard.

Omackeral

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The obvious problem would be the removal of certain Derbys. Real v Atletico, Liverpool v Everton, Barca v Espanyol, Arsenal v Spurs, Celtic v Rangers etc. Local fans would not accept that.

Who cares about those local nuisances?

iDave

How would relegation/promotion work in a real world sense. So Man City have a bad season and finish in the bottom 3. Relegated to the Premier League. So who replaces them? What if Aston Villa win a PL that's had a haircut of its biggest teams. Are they suddenly good enough for this ESL? What if 3 English teams finish in the bottom 3. Are they replaced then by 3 English teams? But what if the top 3 (and remember the biggest teams are no longer in the PL) Villa, Everton and Southampton. Are they now playing in the ESL ahead of lowly City, Chelsea and Liverpool (for example). And does this mean your only chance of getting into the ESL is by winning your league and hoping a team from the same country is in the bottom 3 of the ESL?
Or do we pluck 2-3 teams from across Europe to replace them. So then how do we decide which leagues?

anncoates

iDave wrote: »

How would relegation/promotion work in a real world sense.

That's another point.

Is a really big team in such a league is really going to countenance being relegated from their place at the trough?

Omackeral

Taking your relegation scenario into account, if Celtic get relegated from the ESL, do Dundee or Hearts go into it in their place as Champions of Scotland ? Can't imagine those sides drawing massive interest over a full season from fans of super sexy football.

iDave

anncoates wrote: »

That's another point.

Is a really big team in such a league is really going to countenance being relegated from their place at the trough?

Of course not they have....err....global clout.

I bring it up because the OP said it would exist

The ESL wouldn't be a closed shop. Clubs can be relegated and promoted from and to it so that's why I can't see it destroying the domestic leagues

anncoates

Incidentally, the poll is currently 15% in favour of the league.

That's on a forum where you expect more support for the idea: most posters support the bigger clubs and are not from the locale of those teams and would watch games on TV so can you imagine the enthusiasm among local, match-going supporters of the clubs?

bucketybuck

Omackeral wrote: »

Taking your relegation scenario into account, if Celtic get relegated from the ESL, do Dundee or Hearts go into it in their place as Champions of Scotland ?

No, the OP and his supporters get together in the pub and decide who replaces them, based upon who they think is a "big" club this year.

Richard Hillman

Omackeral wrote: »

Taking your relegation scenario into account, if Celtic get relegated from the ESL, do Dundee or Hearts go into it in their place as Champions of Scotland ? Can't imagine those sides drawing massive interest over a full season from fans of super sexy football.

If there was a sub league with teams from the likes of Russia, Turkey etc, then just replace them with a winner of that.

bucketybuck

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If there was a sub league with teams from the likes of Russia, Turkey etc, then just replace them with a winner of that.

And is there another sub league below that one?

Omackeral

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If there was a sub league with teams from the likes of Russia, Turkey etc, then just replace them with a winner of that.

Are they not already suffering and toiling In their own domestic league though? Ya know, the one they've to make do with and be happy about.

Also, can't wait til Bohs get into Level 4/5 of the pan European league and take on Lithuanian/Estonian sides every week. F*ck Shamrock Rovers, the real tribally warefare is with Levadia Tallinn. Jesus.

Omackeral

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If there was a sub league with teams from the likes of Russia, Turkey etc, then just replace them with a winner of that.

And who's gonna watch that?! Are you not just aswell to watch Fernerbache vs Besikas than you are to watch Galatasary vs Levski Sofia or Slavia Prague. Where does it stop?

Dayum

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The obvious problem would be the removal of certain Derbys. Real v Atletico, Liverpool v Everton, Barca v Espanyol, Arsenal v Spurs, Celtic v Rangers etc. Local fans would not accept that.

Celtic haven't faced Rangers in any meaningful competition for eons anyway.

Real and Atletico would both be in the Superleague so that Derby stays.

Arsenal fans would hardly be quick to announce the Spurs match as their season highlight - the same with the Barcelona game. And I don't even see a problem with the Merseyside one...would Liverpool even survive in the Superleague?

Omackeral

Dayum wrote: »

Celtic haven't faced Rangers in any meaningful competition for eons anyway.

Real and Atletico would both be in the Superleague so that Derby stays.

Arsenal fans would hardly be quick to announce the Spurs match as their season highlight - the same with the Barcelona game. And I don't even see a problem with the Merseyside one...would Liverpool even survive in the Superleague?

Eh ever heard of a little thing called Global Clout?

Dayum

Omackeral wrote: »

Eh ever heard of a little thing called Global Clout?

Look at Uniteds Global Clout....if the Superleague was in operation last year United would have been relegated under Moyes.

Omackeral

Dayum wrote: »

Look at Uniteds Global Clout....if the Superleague was in operation last year United would have been relegated under Moyes.

Yeah I know, it's ridiculous and that's why I'm ripping the p*ss out of it.