Vaccines and autism

Hannibal Smith

I didn't know there was a vaccine for chicken pox but I would definitely have got them vaccinated if I had known.

I remember my eldest was 2 when he got them and at 3am he was sitting in a bath of whatever concoction the pharmacist gave us and I saw all the spots all over him and thought my poor boy!!!

But the worst part is that they are infectious before the spots appear, so for two weeks he was walking around in shops with probably pregnant women, babies, elderly people and it's an airborne virus!

His brother was 8 weeks at the time and he caught them too. Despite the gp and pharmacist telling us he should have been okay.

It's not the worst affliction in the world, but its who you're passing it on to and the harm it could do them without knowing and its just awful seeing your kid so distressed. Did I mention itswas Christmas time too???

ancapailldorcha

I'd no either. Why you wouldn't want to circumvent enduring chickenpox is beyond me.

lazygal

tinkerbell wrote: »

They are supposed to be introducing it in a number of countries but who knows when that'll happen. It's already in the US as the MMRV. It is definitely a total no brainer.

It is on the schedule in some countries already. But I can't imagine if the HSE introduced it in the schedule it would cost a huge amount. Imagine the savings in parents needing to take leave because of it alone, and missed days in school, not to mind the risk to immuno suppressed people.

Xdancer

tinkerbell wrote: »

They are supposed to be introducing it in a number of countries but who knows when that'll happen. It's already in the US as the MMRV. It is definitely a total no brainer.

Here in Spain it is available at 12 years old to children who haven't had chickenpox before.
I paid for the vaccine for my daughter at 12 months. Why risk it when there is a vaccine available?? The sooner it is included for all babies the better. It's a horrible illness.

lazygal

Xdancer wrote: »

Here in Spain it is available at 12 years old to children who haven't had chickenpox before.
I paid for the vaccine for my daughter at 12 months. Why risk it when there is a vaccine available?? The sooner it is included for all babies the better. It's a horrible illness.

Just to say, mine got it at 15 months and a booster at 17 months. My GP advised that I should wait until two months after the HSE scheduled vaccines had been completed to give it.
Another one we have chosen to give is the Men B vaccine, again two shots are required.

witchgirl26

Saw this thread on the main page & found it interesting. Not a parent myself but would definitely be in the get your kids vaccinated camp.

My mam (a nurse) had concerns about the MMR at the time I was born. Not the link to autism but some other stuff that had been circulating at the time. She wasn't sure about the combined vaccine so I got all 3 but just in individual doses. Now unfortunately I did end up during the course of childhood with mild versions of measles & rubella. I didn't get the MMR booster (as I'd had 2 out of 3) but went & got a mumps booster.

I never got chicken pox growing up & there was no vaccine back then so I'm at risk now. I'm going to get my bloods done (double check I don't have the antibodies) & then I'm getting the vaccine myself.

I think it's natural to be questioning about these type of things but I think you do have to place a certain amount of faith in people who have studied in these fields for years and developed the vaccines. I think you should be aware of potential side-affects of getting them but also the massive implications of not getting them. Not just for your child but for all children they come into contact with.

Jerrica

I got chatting to a lovely doctor in Crumlin a few weeks ago when we had to bring our little girl in, we got talking about vaccines (there was an audible tone of relief when I said I'm pro vaccine!) and he was saying that the chicken pox vaccine absolutely should be on the schedule but likely won't be anytime soon for economic reasons. When we went in for the four month jabs I asked the nurse about it and she said it was up to us but wouldn't recommend it because it's a "benign" virus. My husband almost had to catch my eyes they rolled so far back into my head.

RentDayBlues

We gave our first the chicken pox vaccine and will do the same shortly for our second. The cost of it versus the health of my child was a no brainer!

But for the hse it's just not justifiable given the small incidences of serious side effects. I remember getting chicken pox as a kid and it was awful, I still have scars.

On the original topic, anyone who chooses to not have their children vaccinated, fair enough, your decision. BUT perhaps you could to keep them indoors so mine don't suffer the consequences!

sari

RentDayBlues wrote: »

BUT perhaps you could to keep them indoors so mine don't suffer the consequences!

Why would yours suffer any consequences if vaccines work as well as we are told, which I believe they do.

And who do you think you are to tell anyone to stay in doors babies and young children at that! If you really mean what you say you are in the wrong country for those types of beliefs.

Sligo1

Vaccines are only about 80-90+% reliable depending on which vaccine we are talking about. That still leaves a chance for a vaccinated child to become ill from something contracted from an unvaccinated child...

lazygal

sari wrote: »

Why would yours suffer any consequences if vaccines work as well as we are told, which I believe they do.

And who do you think you are to tell anyone to stay in doors babies and young children at that! If you really mean what you say you are in the wrong country for those types of beliefs.

Herd immunity anyone? Who are you to tell anyone it's ok to put newborns and others who cannot.have vaccines at risk because of whacky beliefs about the dangers of vaccines?

Sligo1

sari wrote: »

Why would yours suffer any consequences if vaccines work as well as we are told, which I believe they do.

And who do you think you are to tell anyone to stay in doors babies and young children at that! If you really mean what you say you are in the wrong country for those types of beliefs.

Vaccines are only about 80-90+% reliable depending on which vaccine we are talking about. That still leaves a chance for a vaccinated child to become ill from something contracted from an unvaccinated child...

sari

"96% of 2yr olds appropriately vaccinted with 6in1 vaccine"

"At 1 yr 86-91% have received hib and pcv"

"Mmr ranging from 90-96%"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/concerns-for-children-remain-despite-rise-in-vaccination-rates-266185.html
Dispite the tone of fear in the article we are well above herd immunity threshold so no need to panic and saying that children should be kept indoors. Seriously come on be gald we live in a country with high rates meeting herd immunity thresholds, where the risk is so small, why do people feel the need to be so nasty anytime this topic comes up.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Sligo1

sari wrote: »

"96% of 2yr olds appropriately vaccinted with 6in1 vaccine"

"At 1 yr 86-91% have received hib and pcv"

"Mmr ranging from 90-96%"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/concerns-for-children-remain-despite-rise-in-vaccination-rates-266185.html
Dispite the tone of fear in the article we are well above herd immunity threshold so no need to panic and saying that children should be kept indoors. Seriously come on be gald we live in a country with high rates meeting herd immunity thresholds, where the risk is so small, why do people feel the need to be so nasty anytime this topic comes up.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

You are completely missing the point here Sari. Even if 99% of children were
Immunised, immunisation is not 100% fullproof. There is a small chance an immunised child could still contract an illness from a child who hasn't been immunised. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here...

sari

???sligo1 by that logic herd immunity is pointless. Everyone is talking about herd immunity and yet your statement means it's useless.
The point I am trying to make is the risk is so small here, we have high vaccine uptake, above herd immunity threshold so there is no need for the nasty comments, the negativity. I read some really horrible comments here and i just don't think that it's ok to say stuff like that, we can get out point across without negative put downs. Would you let your children hear you talk about people they way they have been here? Would you be angry if you heard your children talk about others the way they have been here?

lazygal

sari wrote: »

???sligo1 by that logic herd immunity is pointless. Everyone is talking about herd immunity and yet your statement means it's useless.
The point I am trying to make is the risk is so small here, we have high vaccine uptake, above herd immunity threshold so there is no need for the nasty comments, the negativity. I read some really horrible comments here and i just don't think that it's ok to say stuff like that, we can get out point across without negative put downs. Would you let your children hear you talk about people they way they have been here? Would you be angry if you heard your children talk about others the way they have been here?

I'd be angrier if my children were put at risk.because other parents decided they wouldn't vaccinate because of spurious reasons not based on facts and evidence. I've yet to hear one solid reason why parents don't vaccinate, apart from those who can't vaccinate because of medical reasons. I will not.accept parents who don't vaccinate for non medical reasons are making a valid choice and if that's negative so be it

seventeen sheep

sari wrote: »

???sligo1 by that logic herd immunity is pointless. Everyone is talking about herd immunity and yet your statement means it's useless.
The point I am trying to make is the risk is so small here, we have high vaccine uptake, above herd immunity threshold so there is no need for the nasty comments, the negativity. I read some really horrible comments here and i just don't think that it's ok to say stuff like that, we can get out point across without negative put downs. Would you let your children hear you talk about people they way they have been here? Would you be angry if you heard your children talk about others the way they have been here?

The risk is small for YOUR family, if YOU'RE lucky enough to have a strong healthy child with a good immune system. You may be lucky and your child may never get seriously ill as a result of being unvaccinated.

However think of all the times during their lives that your child will end up in close contact with other people, on public transport, at medical appointments, in school, etc. You will never know how many of those people were also unvaccinated for genuine medical reasons.

Example - your child gets mildly ill and passes the disease on to a sick baby sitting beside you in the doctor's waiting room - the baby gets seriously ill and dies as a result of your selfish choice; you'll probably never even hear about the death and certainly wouldn't associate it with your child. But it happens.

You don't seem to understand the concept of herd immunity. It is supposed to protect the weakest and most vulnerable people - those that can't get vaccinated. It is not supposed to protect strong healthy children who absolutely should be vaccinated. For every selfish parent who chooses not to vaccinate, herd immunity becomes less effective.

sari

We have vaccination levels above herd immunity levels did you even read the links I posted. You all talk about how important herd immunity is and yet when I show you evidence that are rates are above threshold you still don't seem to get that. So you either believe herd immunity works or it doesn't and you can see our rates are above thresholds, the herd immunity concept says that this means there is minimal risk to THE WHOLE population. Maybe have a re read of what herd immunity is

chocksaway

If your child is able to be vaccinated it should be. Otherwise its just selfish. We had the opportunity to eradicate a lot of diseases which are now coming back because of all the anti-vaccination crowd. Measles and mumps could have gone the way of polio and small pox, but now every year there are outbreaks

Sligo1

sari wrote: »

???sligo1.... Would you let your children hear you talk about people they way they have been here? Would you be angry if you heard your children talk about others the way they have been here?

EXCUSE ME???? Can you please quote WHERE I have said anything that I would not like my children hear me say? Your posts are becoming highly personal now sari and I would appreciate it if you could please not direct any personal comments towards me or my children. Again... I have not called anybody any names or said ANYTHING horrible to or about anyone!

jh79

sari wrote: »

We have vaccination levels above herd immunity levels did you even read the links I posted. You all talk about how important herd immunity is and yet when I show you evidence that are rates are above threshold you still don't seem to get that. So you either believe herd immunity works or it doesn't and you can see our rates are above thresholds, the herd immunity concept says that this means there is minimal risk to THE WHOLE population. Maybe have a re read of what herd immunity is

But if everyone assumes everyone else is getting their kids vaccinated and then doesn't see the need to do their own then this level will drop.

sari

Sligo1 I didn't mean that to come across directly personally at you so I apologise that it came across that way.
I meant it as a general statement because of some of the really negative comments made here. Without going back on all the comments again I think that anything you have posted hasn't been very derogatory and I have mentioned before that I always thought other posts of yours were very fair and helpful.
It's just a lot of posters here have said they have no problem with making such negative comments and I wondered how they would feel if they heard their child say similar, maybe then they would realise how inappropriate their comments are.

lazygal

sari wrote: »

Sligo1 I didn't mean that to come across directly personally at you so I apologise that it came across that way.
I meant it as a general statement because of some of the really negative comments made here. Without going back on all the comments again I think that anything you have posted hasn't been very derogatory and I have mentioned before that I always thought other posts of yours were very fair and helpful.
It's just a lot of posters here have said they have no problem with making such negative comments and I wondered how they would feel if they heard their child say similar, maybe then they would realise how inappropriate their comments are.

Are your children vaccinated?
Try explaining to a child on chemo that they're at risk because other parents won't vaccinate their healthy children. I'm not sure I'd be able to stop a child calling such parents negative things. And I'd be saying then myself.

ancapailldorcha

lazygal wrote: »

Are your children vaccinated?
Try explaining to a child on chemo that they're at risk because other parents won't vaccinate their healthy children. I'm not sure I'd be able to stop a child calling such parents negative things. And I'd be saying then myself.

If someone reads an article in the Mail and doubts vaccines then they should ask their doctor. It's the people who think that they're better informed than the medical profession because of Jenny McCarthy, the Mail or whatever and there are definitely some that irritate me leading to my comments earlier. One of my neighbour's children came down with narcolepsy after being administered Pandemrix so I'm well aware that there can be side effects and that there are legitimate concerns but listen to actual doctors and scientists instead of quacks, charlatans and playboy bunnies.

cyning

sari wrote: »

We have vaccination levels above herd immunity levels did you even read the links I posted. You all talk about how important herd immunity is and yet when I show you evidence that are rates are above threshold you still don't seem to get that. So you either believe herd immunity works or it doesn't and you can see our rates are above thresholds, the herd immunity concept says that this means there is minimal risk to THE WHOLE population. Maybe have a re read of what herd immunity is

5 times in her 8 months my child has been in hospital. She's not immuno compromised but seeing her hooked up to oxygen and drips is not my idea of a good time. I am terrified of her picking up a serious illness. I know that in March when we get her mmr she is going to get sick. Like after all her vaccines. That I will spend days pumping and syringe feeding her fluids to try and avoid hospital. That's if we avoid hospital. Vaccinations aren't a magic elixir. But her odds of picking up a serious illness like mumps or rubella is much higher from an unvaccinated rather than a vaccinated child. They are just facts. If we visited my inlaws and passed on measles: It actually doesn't bare thinking about to be honest.

That's why people get so worked up. It's a real risk in my family. A very real one. I wish I didn't have to vaccinate her: my first child never reacted like that. But I do because quite frankly both me and her docs think the risks of not vaccinating are much higher than vaccinating.

tinkerbell

sari wrote: »

We have vaccination levels above herd immunity levels did you even read the links I posted. You all talk about how important herd immunity is and yet when I show you evidence that are rates are above threshold you still don't seem to get that. So you either believe herd immunity works or it doesn't and you can see our rates are above thresholds, the herd immunity concept says that this means there is minimal risk to THE WHOLE population. Maybe have a re read of what herd immunity is

You are completely missing the point. Herd immunity is to protect the vulnerable who cannot have their vaccines due to a compromised immune system. Why is this so difficult to comprehend? Herd immunity is not there to protect healthy children who have selfish, ignorant parents who care about nobody else but themselves. It's to protect those who are not able to get vaccinated. Besidea, some vaccines only are 80% effective. If everybody was vaccinated, then only 20% would get it. However, everybody does not get the vaccine so the protection levels drop way down below 80% then.

The anti vaccine brigade have no valid reason not to vaccinate. Instead, they choose to not bother and then the child might get one of those diseases and end up passing it onto a child who has a weakened immune system or a newborn baby where the disease could cause permanent damage or be fatal. Now how in the name of God can anybody justify not vaccinating their children? They are happy to just put the health of those who aren't vaccinated in serious danger.

sari

Guys please go and read about herd immunity what it is and how it works because when you read about how it actually works and then remind yourself that our vaccine uptake is above these thresholds some of the fear some have said they have will be greatly elivetated.

lazygal

sari wrote: »

Guys please go and read about herd immunity what it is and how it works because when you read about how it actually works and then remind yourself that our vaccine uptake is above these thresholds some of the fear some have said they have will be greatly elivetated.

Are your children vaccinated?
What is a valid reason for a parent deciding not to vaccinate their children?

I think it is one of the most selfish things imaginable to piggy back onto the protection responsible parents are trying to give their children and take an 'I'm alright Jack' approach and not vaccinate because others have taken some of the risk off your children. Meanwhile sick children and adults have to suffer risks.

tinkerbell

sari wrote: »

Guys please go and read about herd immunity what it is and how it works because when you read about how it actually works and then remind yourself that our vaccine uptake is above these thresholds some of the fear some have said they have will be greatly elivetated.

I think you need to read about herd immunity because you're missing the point. Herd immunity is based on very small levels of people not getting vaccinated due to MEDICAL REASONS not some selfish parent deciding that they want to piggy back on the children who did get vaccinated. Herd immunity is starting to get compromised because of those parents.

sari

Lazygal I have stated many times here that they are vaccinated. Instead of reading my comments and see that the risk here in Ireland is tiny and being happy about that you continue to try and put people down. I just don't get that. And I can't believe that you would be ok with your children name calling certain groups of people in the way you have done here.
I'm not replying to this thread anymore but people please read the links I have posted, learn about what herd immunity really means, read the statistics on our vaccination coverage and take comfort from the fact that all Irish children are at minimal risk. Won't that make us all feel better than when we are trying to tear people down