Vaccines and autism

IvyTheTerrible

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Would any of you anti-vax people vaccinate your children if you knew that they wouldn't be offered a school/creche place without said vaccinations???

Over here in France, you can't send your child to a public creche or school unless their vaccinations are up to date (unless there is a valid medical reason why they can't). I'm happy with the policy, it keeps all children protected.

eyescreamcone

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Over here in France, you can't send your child to a public creche or school unless their vaccinations are up to date (unless there is a valid medical reason why they can't). I'm happy with the policy, it keeps all children protected.

What other countries have this sensible policy?

Xdancer

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What other countries have this sensible policy?

It's the same here in Spain.

lazygal

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What other countries have this sensible policy?

Pretty sure It's the same in Australia too. Given the ethos heavy non state run but state funded.system here I doubt we'll see it introduced any time soon though. I know of private providers in the preschools sector who require vaccines though.

Neyite

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What other countries have this sensible policy?

My Irish creche does. I had to provide immunisation records when I enrolled the baby.

Ginny

Yup we had to provide immunisation records for our Creche too.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Another story that highlights the importance of herd immunity:
http://gu.com/p/44ydz/sbl

The seven Californians with confirmed cases are from five different areas of the state and range from eight months to 21 years old. Six were not vaccinated against the disease, including two who were too young to be vaccinated.

Dr Jonathan Temte, chairman of the US advisory committee on immunization practices, said those who caught measles probably were a few feet from someone with the illness who coughed or sneezed – and that many others were probably exposed.

“If you turn around and do the math, of the people at Disneyland at the time that this occurred, probably 90 to 95% were vaccinated,” Temte said. “All of a sudden you realize that is a much higher attack rate.”

Sligo1

Just a little blog I just read. No stats or anything like that. Just the opinion of one doctor. Very sad story .

http://www.bartbarrett.com/home/one-dead-child-two-foolish-parents#.VKnUAMXgHa8=

Roesy

Sligo1 wrote: »

Just a little blog I just read. No stats or anything like that. Just the opinion of one doctor. Very sad story .

http://www.bartbarrett.com/home/one-dead-child-two-foolish-parents#.VKnUAMXgHa8=

Saw that on Facebook this morning. So sad.

The Black Oil

The Disneyland story has at least received some media coverage. Hopefully it will make some parents think twice about making decisions based on low quality information.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

More fallout from the California measles outbreak:

http://cnn.it/1CJIeVo

What's absolutely shocking is that CNN managed to find an an anti-vaccine CARDIOLOGIST who gave these lovely informed words of wisdom:

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.

Someone needs to go back to med school methinks :eek: :eek: :eek:

SpaceTime

I'm just amazed at how vicious some people can get about this topic though.
A friend of mine who I would now rate as a 'former friend' absolutely took me apart for arguing in favour of vaccines and basically told me that I had no idea what I was talking about and that I should never have kids as I'm clearly an 'unfit parent'.

Pretty shocked and horrified tbh.

Sligo1

Cora Swift Sweatshop wrote: »

More fallout from the California measles outbreak:

http://cnn.it/1CJIeVo

What's absolutely shocking is that CNN managed to find an an anti-vaccine CARDIOLOGIST who gave these lovely informed words of wisdom:



Someone needs to go back to med school methinks :eek: :eek: :eek:

Words fail me. He should not be allowed to practice medicine. Especially considering the practice of medicine and health related diseases is based on research and evidence based practice.

January

Sligo1 wrote: »

Words fail me. He should not be allowed to practice medicine. Especially considering the practice of medicine and health related diseases is based on research and evidence based practice.

If he was the only cardiologist in America I'd travel outside it to get my child treated. Jebus.

Sligo1

And now this! I mean seriously... It's just beyond a joke. I'm totally stumped. Crazy crazy crazy.

http://thespudd.com/anti-vaccine-parents-refuse-to-let-child-wear-safety-harness-at-disneyland/

Tasden

Sligo1 wrote: »

And now this! I mean seriously... It's just beyond a joke. I'm totally stumped. Crazy crazy crazy.

http://thespudd.com/anti-vaccine-parents-refuse-to-let-child-wear-safety-harness-at-disneyland/

I'm not sure if you're being serious?

Das Kitty

Sligo1 wrote: »

And now this! I mean seriously... It's just beyond a joke. I'm totally stumped. Crazy crazy crazy.

http://thespudd.com/anti-vaccine-parents-refuse-to-let-child-wear-safety-harness-at-disneyland/

...It is a joke.

A satiric website.

Sligo1

Das Kitty wrote: »

...It is a joke.

A satiric website.

I was thinking that. And said it to the person who just text it to me. And they said it was for real.... Thank god it's satirical.

Jerrica

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm just amazed at how vicious some people can get about this topic though.
A friend of mine who I would now rate as a 'former friend' absolutely took me apart for arguing in favour of vaccines and basically told me that I had no idea what I was talking about and that I should never have kids as I'm clearly an 'unfit parent'.

Pretty shocked and horrified tbh.

This touches on something I was thinking about over the weekend. Have any of the parents here ever had to ask friends or family if they have vaccinated their children before letting their kids go on playdates? I'm very pro vaccinating, I think it's something I may well have to do, and I know I'll run the risk of alienating some people in doing so. But as a mother I have an obligation to keep my child safe, and (please God / universe / spaghetti monster it doesn't happen but) if we were to have a major outbreak of a preventable disease in Ireland I think I'd have to really assess who my child was exposed to. Am I being alarmist in saying that though? It already makes me uneasy that vaccination isn't mandatory in the creche she'll be in

pwurple

Jerrica wrote: »

This touches on something I was thinking about over the weekend. Have any of the parents here ever had to ask friends or family if they have vaccinated their children before letting their kids go on playdates?

Yes. Have done, and make no bones about it. We have two immuno-compromised people in our family/friend circle. I'm not having my kids carry something back from a playdate that could kill someone else.

lazygal

I have asked too, especially before we got the chicken pox vaccine. I didn't want to risk them getting it before the first one or the booster shots.

Neyite

pwurple wrote: »

Yes. Have done, and make no bones about it. We have two immuno-compromised people in our family/friend circle. I'm not having my kids carry something back from a playdate that could kill someone else.

Same as that - we have immuno-compromised family and very aware that even a snotty nose might be an inconvenience for my child, but a weeks long infection requiring strong antibiotics, pain meds, and steroids for them. And that's not counting the physical discomfort, enforced bed rest, and sleepless nights for their carer.

I've never actually asked yet though, as the only kids he plays with are in crèche or his cousins and all are children of pro-vaccine parents. But I would, if I wasn't sure.

Brian?

Jerrica wrote: »

This touches on something I was thinking about over the weekend. Have any of the parents here ever had to ask friends or family if they have vaccinated their children before letting their kids go on playdates?

I haven't, it never even occurred to me until now. I am going to do it from now on though.

pwurple

And I just skirted around an anti-vaxxer.

Husband put his friend's kids on the birthday party list, they just moved back to this country last year. Phoned her up with the intention of inviting them... asked how she was doing. The two children are just over the whooping cough, and have now picked up chicken pox. Doing ok, but all very tired and run down and they've all been off school/work for nearly a month. I asked if they had been vaccinated. "I don't believe in it".

Rightio, byyyyeee.

Jerrica

pwurple wrote: »

The two children are just over the whooping cough, and have now picked up chicken pox. Doing ok, but all very tired and run down and they've all been off school/work for nearly a month. I asked if they had been vaccinated. "I don't believe in it".

Jesus, the poor children Two preventable diseases that could so easily have been avoided. I find that so upsetting. Children rely on their parents to keep them safe, not put them in immediate danger.

IvyTheTerrible

pwurple wrote: »

And I just skirted around an anti-vaxxer.

Husband put his friend's kids on the birthday party list, they just moved back to this country last year. Phoned her up with the intention of inviting them... asked how she was doing. The two children are just over the whooping cough, and have now picked up chicken pox. Doing ok, but all very tired and run down and they've all been off school/work for nearly a month. I asked if they had been vaccinated. "I don't believe in it".

Rightio, byyyyeee.

Those poor kids. I had whooping cough as a toddler and one of my earliest memories is coughing so much I threw up. It was awful.

Millem

I need to book the Mmr for my little boy and my mum informed me that she never got it for any of us :eek:
Apparently back in the day when someone on the road got x y or z the parents would pile all the kids in so they would get it! So I have actually had measles and mumps! I asked her about the rubella but she say I got vaccinated in primary school but wasn't 100%. I presume I did as I am nearly positive they tested for it at 12 week pregnancy appointment.

Sligo1

Millem wrote: »

I need to book the Mmr for my little boy and my mum informed me that she never got it for any of us :eek:
Apparently back in the day when someone on the road got x y or z the parents would pile all the kids in so they would get it! So I have actually had measles and mumps! I asked her about the rubella but she say I got vaccinated in primary school but wasn't 100%. I presume I did as I am nearly positive they tested for it at 12 week pregnancy appointment.

Yea my husband has had the mumps. And he told me that when anyone near where he lived got chicken pox the parents would would load the kids up and bring them over to the person who had it! Now my parents were of the same era... Thank god they had more sense! I'm getting my OH to check his immunity Status first thing tomorrow. He He was meant to do it today! He thinks he was vaccinated but I'm not taking any chances with what he's just told me.

Millem

Sligo1 wrote: »

Yea my husband has had the mumps. And he told me that when anyone near where he lived got chicken pox the parents would would load the kids up and bring them over to the person who had it! Now my parents were of the same era... Thank god they had more sense! I'm getting my OH to check his immunity Status first thing tomorrow. He He was meant to do it today! He thinks he was vaccinated but I'm not taking any chances with what he's just told me.

Omg I know what were they like!!
I am defo booking that mmr for during mid term.

tinkerbell

pwurple wrote: »

And I just skirted around an anti-vaxxer.

Husband put his friend's kids on the birthday party list, they just moved back to this country last year. Phoned her up with the intention of inviting them... asked how she was doing. The two children are just over the whooping cough, and have now picked up chicken pox. Doing ok, but all very tired and run down and they've all been off school/work for nearly a month. I asked if they had been vaccinated. "I don't believe in it".

Rightio, byyyyeee.

OMG, those complete and utter fools. Give them a wide radius!! Bloody morons. Their poor children Why would you inflict sickness unnecessarily on your precious children? It's just insane.

John Mason

I have had measles, mumps and whooping cough.

I remember been sent off to play with sick kids. Times were different back then.

Mind you I heard there us an outbreak of chicken pox in the MILs creche, asked if I could my young fella in for a few days. Would love for him to it over and done with before I go back to work

RentDayBlues

John Mason wrote: »

Mind you I heard there us an outbreak of chicken pox in the MILs creche, asked if I could my young fella in for a few days. Would love for him to it over and done with before I go back to work

I really hope you're being sarcastic??

Sligo1

Millem wrote: »

Omg I know what were they like!!
I am defo booking that mmr for during mid term.

Millem when you had baba you would have had all your immunity level (titres) checked and they would have told you if any were low or if your immunity wasn't covered.

Millem

Sligo1 wrote: »

Millem when you had baba you would have had all your immunity level (titres) checked and they would have told you if any were low or if your immunity wasn't covered.

Phew
I can't believe my mother!

Neyite

RentDayBlues wrote: »

I really hope you're being sarcastic??

Not necessarily. A vaccinated chi!d can still get a mild dose and you'd still be off work. So in that case it might make sense to 'schedule' it somewhat.

I know someone with an immuno compromised child who exposed the child to chicken pox when it was going around on the advice of their many specialists. It was at the point where the child's immune system was at its strongest to fight it and would ensure they were unlikely to catch it during planned intense treatments where it could be disasterous for the wee one.

Sligo1

Neyite wrote: »

Not necessarily. A vaccinated chi!d can still get a mild dose and you'd still be off work. So in that case it might make sense to 'schedule' it somewhat.

I know someone with an immuno compromised child who exposed the child to chicken pox when it was going around on the advice of their many specialists. It was at the point where the child's immune system was at its strongest to fight it and would ensure they were unlikely to catch it during planned intense treatments where it could be disasterous for the wee one.

Gosh I've never heard of this but I spose I can understand the logic. But would they not have just vaccinated te child when their immune system was at its strongest? At least then the probability would be significantly lower of them catching the chicken pox?

Neyite

Sligo1 wrote: »

Gosh I've never heard of this but I spose I can understand the logic. But would they not have just vaccinated te child when their immune system was at its strongest? At least then the probability would be significantly lower of them catching the chicken pox?

I'm not sure if the child was unable to get the vaccine, or if they'd been vaccinated and timed it for the next good run of health after that. There was a months and months of intensive procedures ahead, they mentioned the pox going around to the consultants as they were concerned and the overall consensus was that if it could be contracted at that point, it was safer. A week of mild chickens pox and the little one sailed through it.

If they'd got it during the procedures, it could have proven very dangerous or even fatal.

The Black Oil

pwurple wrote: »

I asked if they had been vaccinated. "I don't believe in it".

Rightio, byyyyeee.

I wonder, in less personal situations, if it's time to start asking some of these folks if they don't 'believe' in penicillin, etc.

Neyite

The Black Oil wrote: »

I wonder, in less personal situations, if it's time to start asking some of these folks if they don't 'believe' in penicillin, etc.

I'm sure there is a homeopathic substitute.

Sligo1

Neyite wrote: »

I'm not sure if the child was unable to get the vaccine, or if they'd been vaccinated and timed it for the next good run of health after that. There was a months and months of intensive procedures ahead, they mentioned the pox going around to the consultants as they were concerned and the overall consensus was that if it could be contracted at that point, it was safer. A week of mild chickens pox and the little one sailed through it.

If they'd got it during the procedures, it could have proven very dangerous or even fatal.

Ah that's brilliant the little one got through it. the parents must have been so worried God love them.

The Black Oil

@Neyite - Dr. Google to the rescue.

Sligo1

Millem wrote: »

Omg I know what were they like!!
I am defo booking that mmr for during mid term.

Just asked the MIL there of husband was vaccinated fully. Thank fwuck he was .

John Mason

My doctor doesn't vaccinate against chicken pox and I Will not be in a position to take time off work, and creche won't take him so if he got now we would be sorted.

RentDayBlues

John Mason wrote: »

My doctor doesn't vaccinate against chicken pox and I Will not be in a position to take time off work, and creche won't take him so if he got now we would be sorted.

But chicken pox can be very dangerous. Any reason your doc won't vaccinate?

Sligo1

John Mason wrote: »

My doctor doesn't vaccinate against chicken pox and I Will not be in a position to take time off work, and creche won't take him so if he got now we would be sorted.

If you want him vaccinated just go to a different GP.

Neyite

Children who get the CP vaccine can still get chicken pox, unlike measels. I know of a few parents who shelled out €100 for the vaccine only to have to take a week off with the child when they got it anyway.

Sligo1

Neyite wrote: »

Children who get the CP vaccine can still get chicken pox, unlike measels. I know of a few parents who shelled out €100 for the vaccine only to have to take a week off with the child when they got it anyway.

This is true. But no vaccine is 100% full proof. I got the cp vaccine and the boosters a few years ago as I never had cp. when I went to get my blood titres checked when I was preggers a couple years later I was told I needed to stay away from anyone with CP as my titres came back low.

tinkerbell

Not every vaccine is 100% protection but I'd rather get the vaccine anyway and be less at risk of getting it / or getting a mild dose of it than just catching the virus and then it could either be a mild case or a bad case.

John Mason - just go to a different GP. A severe case of chicken pox can be horrific.

Millem

tinkerbell wrote: »

Not every vaccine is 100% protection but I'd rather get the vaccine anyway and be less at risk of getting it / or getting a mild dose of it than just catching the virus and then it could either be a mild case or a bad case.

John Mason - just go to a different GP. A severe case of chicken pox can be horrific.

I never knew you could get vaccinated against chicken pox! Again I remember my mother getting us to play with kids who had it so would catch it!
I must ask about that vaccination

Sligo1

I wonder if you have the CP vaccine, however still contract CP, if the dose you get would be less severe as you have some immunity or antibodies against it? Anyone know? I might ask in work or the next time I'm at my GP.