Vaccines and autism

eviltwin

I think its highly irresponsible not to vaccinate. Its not just your child and family at risk, its everyone else. I can understand the fears about autism but autism is a relatively new condition, we're still learning about it. Its not fully understood and its probably going to take years before we really know what causes it - if we ever do. When my eldest was diagnosed we were shocked because no one in either family has autism/AS, now looking at older family members its clear that there are people in the family who have undiagnosed AS, people who are the eccentric uncle or the unsocial aunt. Its put my mind at ease that its more a genetic thing than a result of their vaccinations.

I know every parent wants their child to be 100% healthy but mild autism or AS isn't the end of the world. These children will live normal lives, they will have some challenges but they will still be able to participate in society and do everything their peers can do. Its a better outcome than what they may face if they don't have the protection that vaccination offers. I can't understand any parent leaving their child open to that.

lazygal

sari wrote: »

Lazygal I have stated many times here that they are vaccinated. Instead of reading my comments and see that the risk here in Ireland is tiny and being happy about that you continue to try and put people down. I just don't get that. And I can't believe that you would be ok with your children name calling certain groups of people in the way you have done here.
I'm not replying to this thread anymore but people please read the links I have posted, learn about what herd immunity really means, read the statistics on our vaccination coverage and take comfort from the fact that all Irish children are at minimal risk. Won't that make us all feel better than when we are trying to tear people down

I can't believe parents are ok with piggy backing onto my children's immunity instead of getting their children vaccinated and are ok with putting vulnerable people at risk. And I have no issue with calling such people irresponsible, selfish, ignorant and dangerous. I can't believe you need to refer to herd immunity as though it is a valid reason for parents of healthy children to decide not to vaccinate. I can't believe you feel the need to play devil's advocate for such poor decision making and irresponsible parenting.
I will try to tear people down if they are putting children at risk. Why would I adopt the last 'to each their own' platitude when parents not vaccinating their children means diseases which could be a distant memory by now are not?

fro9etb8j5qsl2

99% of anti-vaccine discussions that I have found online are every bit as judgemental of parents who vaccinate as the people on this thread are of them. The only difference is that the pro-vaccine people on this thread have the backup of medically validated evidence to justify their opinions.

I came across this horrific story about a woman who was hounded and bullied mercilessly by the anti-vaccine brigade after her newborn baby tragically died of whooping cough. Although it is an extreme example, this is the typical attitude of any anti-vaccine people I have encountered.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/grieving-parents-speak-out-against-anti-vaccination-extremists/story-fnet08xa-1226650422913

RentDayBlues

Cora Swift Sweatshop wrote: »

99% of anti-vaccine discussions that I have found online are every bit as judgemental of parents who vaccinate as the people on this thread are of them. The only difference is that the pro-vaccine people on this thread have the backup of medically validated evidence to justify their opinions.

I came across this horrific story about a woman who was hounded and bullied mercilessly by the anti-vaccine brigade after her newborn baby tragically died of whooping cough. Although it is an extreme example, this is the typical attitude of any anti-vaccine people I have encountered.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/grieving-parents-speak-out-against-anti-vaccination-extremists/story-fnet08xa-1226650422913

I've just read that article, how sad. I cannot believe anyone either pro or anti vaccine would attack grieving parents, where is their compassion?

Sligo1

Cora Swift Sweatshop wrote: »

99% of anti-vaccine discussions that I have found online are every bit as judgemental of parents who vaccinate as the people on this thread are of them. The only difference is that the pro-vaccine people on this thread have the backup of medically validated evidence to justify their opinions.

I came across this horrific story about a woman who was hounded and bullied mercilessly by the anti-vaccine brigade after her newborn baby tragically died of whooping cough. Although it is an extreme example, this is the typical attitude of any anti-vaccine people I have encountered.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/grieving-parents-speak-out-against-anti-vaccination-extremists/story-fnet08xa-1226650422913

Omg just read that article... And saw Danas little picture... ... ... Feeling quite emotional now.

lazygal

Cora Swift Sweatshop wrote: »

99% of anti-vaccine discussions that I have found online are every bit as judgemental of parents who vaccinate as the people on this thread are of them. The only difference is that the pro-vaccine people on this thread have the backup of medically validated evidence to justify their opinions.

I came across this horrific story about a woman who was hounded and bullied mercilessly by the anti-vaccine brigade after her newborn baby tragically died of whooping cough. Although it is an extreme example, this is the typical attitude of any anti-vaccine people I have encountered.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/grieving-parents-speak-out-against-anti-vaccination-extremists/story-fnet08xa-1226650422913

That is so sad. I don't think I'd be as strong as them.

kunst nugget

lazygal wrote: »

That is so sad. I don't think I'd be as strong as them.

Crazy people all over the internet. Check out this guy who got reams of abuse for the crime of helping some kids out after the Sandy Hook massacre.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/this_man_helped_save_six_children_is_now_getting_harassed_for_it/

lazygal

I hate people sometimes.

Hannibal Smith

sari wrote: »

Lazygal I have stated many times here that they are vaccinated. Instead of reading my comments and see that the risk here in Ireland is tiny and being happy about that you continue to try and put people down. I just don't get that. And I can't believe that you would be ok with your children name calling certain groups of people in the way you have done here.
I'm not replying to this thread anymore but people please read the links I have posted, learn about what herd immunity really means, read the statistics on our vaccination coverage and take comfort from the fact that all Irish children are at minimal risk. Won't that make us all feel better than when we are trying to tear people down

Why have you spent X amount of pages arguing in the thread when all along you clearly agree with those you're debating with because you had your children vaccinated?

sari

Because I don't believe that's it's acceptable to post abusive comments about people no matter their choices and I stated that many times throughout the thread.

seventeen sheep

sari wrote: »

I'm not replying to this thread anymore but people please read the links I have posted, learn about what herd immunity really means, read the statistics on our vaccination coverage and take comfort from the fact that all Irish children are at minimal risk. Won't that make us all feel better than when we are trying to tear people down

But don't you get that it doesn't matter how minimal that risk is, when that risk is still there, and when there are parents that knowingly and willingly increase that risk. Even if the risk is still minimal, it would be little comfort if it were your baby that died as a result.

The risk of a child dying of leukaemia is minimal, but it can't be prevented.

But imagine your baby dying of something that should be vaccinated against, like measles or whooping cough - and wondering forever if it could have been as a result of irresponsible parents who'd made the decision not to vaccinate their children. You'd never know - your child could have picked it up anytime anywhere - the parents of the unvaccinated child will probably never know how far their child has spread it, either, or how many have died as a result.

Even if it's a small risk, when it comes to the life of your own children and of others, it is so irresponsible not to vaccinate. The risk might be well within the "acceptable" range of the statistics you quote, so that might mean i(as you seem to think) that it's relatively "safe" for parents to choose not to vaccinate ... well, it's not so safe for the extra few that die because of your decision. Even if - to you - it's still a statistically low and "acceptable" number of people that suffer.

lazygal

sari wrote: »

Because I don't believe that's it's acceptable to post abusive comments about people no matter their choices and I stated that many times throughout the thread.

Calling people irresponsible, ignorant, selfish and other such this is not abusive. Parents who chose not to vaccinate their children are all of those things, and more. I refuse to sugar coat how I feel about this kind of carry on. It is not same as having a live and let live attitude about things that don't affect me and my children, like parents having young babies in forward facing carseats or putting baby rice in a bottle or piercing a baby's ears at an age I think is inappropriate. Parents who refuse to vaccinate their healthy children because of non medical reasons linked to flawed autism studies or conspiracy theories about big pharma or other such nonsense are putting people's lives at risk. I'm not ok with that and I do not accept this as a valid parenting choice. It is irresponsible, ignorant and selfish to refuse to vaccinate your children and no amount of dancing around the idea that is is a legitimate 'choice' will change that.

Sligo1

Talking about chicken pox... I'm ragin... I have literally just got a text from my SIL who was due a few days ago. Her friends son who she spent the whole day with Saturday developed chicken pox on Sunday. Now my poor SIL is terrified as she could have the baby any day. Now I mean I realise she and baby are probably fine as she has had chicken pox before so
I'm guessing her titres are fine. But she is so stressed now.

If that were me it would be a different story. I never had chicken pox ever. So I got the vaccine. When I was pregnant I was told I was not immune even tho I had the vaccine and all the boosters. So I could've been in trouble if is come in contact with chicken pox while pregnant and would have had to have intravenous immunoglobulins and all the rest....

She is just really stressed over it now

Hannibal Smith

sari wrote: »

Because I don't believe that's it's acceptable to post abusive comments about people no matter their choices and I stated that many times throughout the thread.

You'll be having a busy time on boards then

Hannibal Smith

Sligo1 wrote: »

Talking about chicken pox... I'm ragin... I have literally just got a text from my SIL who was due a few days ago. Her friends son who she spent the whole day with Saturday developed chicken pox on Sunday. Now my poor SIL is terrified as she could have the baby any day. Now I mean I realise she and baby are fine as she has had chicken pox before so
I'm guessing her titres are fine. But she is so stressed now.

If that were me it would be a different story. I never had chicken pox ever. So I got the vaccine. When I was organ to was told I was not immune even tho I had the vaccine and all the boosters. So I could've been in trouble if is come in contact with chicken pox while pregnant and would have had to have intravenous immunoglobulins and all the rest....

She is just really stressed over it now

My mam was having chemo when my son caught them. Luckily nothing happened.

Im raging I didn't know about the vaccine I would definitely have had them done. I must look into the youngest. He had them at 8 weeks and it was quite full on...but if he's not in the clear I'll get him done.

Sligo1

I think a lot of people don't even know that there is a chicken pox vaccine available as it's not on the schedule. God that must have been awful for your mum! Shingles is so much worse than the pox!

exgp

Woshy wrote: »

Has anyone ever actually come across an anti-vaccine parent here? Just wondering how common it is in Ireland. I know it's very prevalent in the States but I've never come across any parents here who do not vaccinate by choice.

Not uncommon.

sari

Lazygal you and others have used much worse words here and you well know it.

lazygal

sari wrote: »

Lazygal you and others have used much worse words here and you well know it.

I probably have, and I don't care. The only abusive thing here is the idea that putting others at risk of developing preventable disease is a legitimate parenting 'choice' and not a downright irresponsible, selfish and dangerous thing to do that has not a jot of credibility. I'll take the possibility of a few hurts feelings if one person has rethought not vaccinating their children because of this thread. And at least a few people got a head's up about the chicken pox vaccine too.

tinkerbell

There's also a rotavirus vaccine.

lazygal

tinkerbell wrote: »

There's also a rotavirus vaccine.

Yes, must remember to check about that one. Well worth doing. I have also chosen to get the MenB vaccine, which is quite expensive unfortunately.

tinkerbell

lazygal wrote: »

Yes, must remember to check about that one. Well worth doing. I have also chosen to get the MenB vaccine, which is quite expensive unfortunately.

When can you get that one?

lazygal

tinkerbell wrote: »

When can you get that one?

I got it two months after the chicken pox booster shot. There are two jabs, one month apart.

eyescreamcone

Parents should feel free not to vaccinate their children if they like.

However, in these cases children's allowance should be stopped.

lazygal

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Parents should feel free not to vaccinate their children if they like.

However, in these cases children's allowance should be stopped.

I would link it to school enrolment and eligibility for the ECCE scheme. I understand Australia operates this way and many creches refuse to admit children who are not vaccinated for non-medical certified reasons.

Orion

sari wrote: »

Lazygal you and others have used much worse words here and you well know it.

If you have a problem with a post report it and let the mods deal with it. No more back seat modding please.

deedless

Linking it to school enrolment and ecce year makes eminent sense to me. I think it's irresponsible of boards of management to allow non vaccinated children put others at risk unless parents can provide certified documentation from an Irish hospital advising this particular child can't be vaccinated.

When bump arrives I've every intention of setting up a vaccine schedule with my GP for anything and everything that can be vaccinated against. It won't guarantee they won't get those illnesses but it should minimise the risk. Same reason I got the flu jab and will be speaking with my consultant about the best timing for the whooping cough jab.

lazygal

deedless wrote: »

Linking it to school enrolment and ecce year makes eminent sense to me. I think it's irresponsible of boards of management to allow non vaccinated children put others at risk unless parents can provide certified documentation from an Irish hospital advising this particular child can't be vaccinated.

When bump arrives I've every intention of setting up a vaccine schedule with my GP for anything and everything that can be vaccinated against. It won't guarantee they won't get those illnesses but it should minimise the risk. Same reason I got the flu jab and will be speaking with my consultant about the best timing for the whooping cough jab.

Are you in Ireland? There's a vaccine passport from the hse. And I was advised to get whooping cough vaccine between 28-36 weeks.

deedless

Yep, ireland based but I dont think the passport covers all vaccines, just the usual ones. I would intend to add any optional ones I can, e.g. Chicken pox, and hpv whether boy or girl.

25 weeks gone, and I heard that 28 weeks on is best, but just want to confirm if there is an optimal time. No harm in asking anyway.

lazygal

deedless wrote: »

Yep, ireland based but I dont think the passport covers all vaccines, just the usual ones. I would intend to add any optional ones I can, e.g. Chicken pox, and hpv whether boy or girl.

25 weeks gone, and I heard that 28 weeks on is best, but just want to confirm if there is an optimal time. No harm in asking anyway.

The passport has the scheduled ones but there's space to add in elective ones. Chicken pox and men b are the main ones I was recommended to get. My gp wouldn't give them until the hse schedule was completed.