Vaccines and autism

January

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Bye Bye
Don't slam the door on the way out please

Please be civil to other posters

Sligo1

Straight from the homeland.... It's not surprising those that were against vaccination changed their minds when their own child developed a preventable condition. Poor wee boy.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8199964/We-were-hippies-about-it

Neyite

In our lifetime, we rarely saw these kind of diseases manifest themselves to their full extent. Vaccines were created because these were horrific ways for children to suffer, become disabled from, or die from.

This little seven year old boy contracted Tetanus. He spent 26 days in hospital in agony until the doctors put him into an induced coma. He was discharged in a wheelchair, and faces a year-long recovery.

He is seven. He should be outside kicking a ball with his friends, not learning to walk and crawl again.

Here is the vaccine schedule and the list of diseases it prevents, along with symptoms. When you look at the lasting damage the diseases cause, should you be lucky enough to survive the illness, why wouldn't we do what we can to prevent that kind of suffering.

Sligo1

Neyite wrote: »

In our lifetime, we rarely saw these kind of diseases manifest themselves to their full extent. Vaccines were created because these were horrific ways for children to suffer, become disabled from, or die from.

This little seven year old boy contracted Tetanus. He spent 26 days in hospital in agony until the doctors put him into an induced coma. He was discharged in a wheelchair, and faces a year-long recovery.

He is seven. He should be outside kicking a ball with his friends, not learning to walk and crawl again.

Here is the vaccine schedule and the list of diseases it prevents, along with symptoms. When you look at the lasting damage the diseases cause, should you be lucky enough to survive the illness, why wouldn't we do what we can to prevent that kind of suffering.

I couldn't have said it better myself Neyite.

eyescreamcone

Would any of you anti-vax people vaccinate your children if you knew that they wouldn't be offered a school/creche place without said vaccinations???

Brian?

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Would any of you anti-vax people vaccinate your children if you knew that they wouldn't be offered a school/creche place without said vaccinations???

My big fear would be that anti-vax parents would home school their children, in fact it's likely some already do. The poor children wouldn't stand a chance in life at all then.

No, I'm not anti home schooling. I'm anti home schooling by people who believe spurious nonsense.

lazygal

Brian? wrote: »

My big fear would be that anti-vax parents would home school their children, in fact it's likely some already do. The poor children wouldn't stand a chance in life at all then.

No, I'm not anti home schooling. I'm anti home schooling by people who believe spurious nonsense.

This is really common among some conservative evangelical Christians in the USA.

Brian?

lazygal wrote: »

This is really common among some conservative evangelical Christians in the USA.

Don't get me started on those crazy bastards. I had some as colleagues and neighbours when I lived in the US. Crazy. Bastards.

Roesy

Had our mmr shot yesterday. After reading about it here, I asked the nurse about the chicken pox vaccine. She was reluctant to engage with me about it despite me leading with I know it's not covered in the standard vaccination protocol. She basically said its a common childhood illness which most children go through and more or less a childhood rite of passage. My mother still shudders about the time I got them. I had them everywhere including in my eyes. I was very sick with them. The nurse just advised me that I should make an appointment with the doctor and discuss it with them.

I have a nephew and cousin who have autism. My cousin has it quite severely along with moderate learning disability. My aunt believed until quite recently that vaccinations had a part to play, probably still does deep down. I have to admit that while I knew myself logically that vaccinations weren't to blame I had slight worries and 'what ifs' at the back of my mind. I just made myself read more research around the time my daughter was due hers and thought about the horrible alternative of her becoming seriously ill or dying of a preventable disease. As I say, I knew it was an irrational fear but seeing the effect of autism so close to home and spending many years working with kids on the spectrum and with other conditions made me need some reassurance.

The Black Oil

CaraMay wrote: »

Do any of the pro vaccination people have kids on the spectrum? I do and if I had my time over again I would never get him vaccinated. The day I brought him in to get the last shots a voice in my head was screaming at me not to do it but I was a sheep. I don't trust pharmaceutical companies. There is something doing serious damage to our children. Our HSE psychologist told me that the new thinking on autism is that 1 in 20 boys are somewhere on the spectrum.

It's easy for for parents who don't have to deal with autism every minute of every day to want all kids to be vaccinated but guess what - you won the lottery and it didn't damage your child but I firmly believe we don't know the half of it and anyone who is adamant that vaccines don't cause autism is being very naive

CaraMay wrote: »

1 in 20 is not down to diagnosis only. My point is that people fret over giving E numbers in their kids good yet let these vaccines be pumped into them without thinking twice. People were told for 40 years that cigarettes didn't cause cancer. Look how that turned out

You've not helped your position by the tone of some of your posts. Throwing around words like sheep, and insinuating that people blindly 'pump' vaccines into their children is hardly helpful. As for the figure the HSE psychologist gave you, that, in fairness, I would actually take with a grain of salt.

CaraMay wrote: »

I don't agree it's just DNA. Explain the explosion of autism....

There are many potential reasons. They may not be cause related that you are looking for, I'll grant you, but they can't be ignored.

• Greater overall awareness of ASD amongst the lay population. In some instances through more high profile individuals.
• Individuals creating their own websites, blogging, Youtube. Self-advocacy.
• Professional upskilling. Greater awareness at a local GP level, more CPD training for psychologists/diagnosticians/clinicians and teachers.
• Early intervention, targeted teaching tools and integration into the mainstream.
• Greater awareness of the quality of life impact across the lifespan, of the sensory problems, heightened anxiety, transitioning to school/college, uptake of disability services.
• Apps and books (good ones).

The story of autism is far from over, but the amount of personal and emotional capital invested in vaccine conspiracy talk is ridiculous.

IvyTheTerrible

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Would any of you anti-vax people vaccinate your children if you knew that they wouldn't be offered a school/creche place without said vaccinations???

Over here in France, you can't send your child to a public creche or school unless their vaccinations are up to date (unless there is a valid medical reason why they can't). I'm happy with the policy, it keeps all children protected.

eyescreamcone

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Over here in France, you can't send your child to a public creche or school unless their vaccinations are up to date (unless there is a valid medical reason why they can't). I'm happy with the policy, it keeps all children protected.

What other countries have this sensible policy?

Xdancer

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What other countries have this sensible policy?

It's the same here in Spain.

lazygal

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What other countries have this sensible policy?

Pretty sure It's the same in Australia too. Given the ethos heavy non state run but state funded.system here I doubt we'll see it introduced any time soon though. I know of private providers in the preschools sector who require vaccines though.

Neyite

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What other countries have this sensible policy?

My Irish creche does. I had to provide immunisation records when I enrolled the baby.

Ginny

Yup we had to provide immunisation records for our Creche too.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Another story that highlights the importance of herd immunity:
http://gu.com/p/44ydz/sbl

The seven Californians with confirmed cases are from five different areas of the state and range from eight months to 21 years old. Six were not vaccinated against the disease, including two who were too young to be vaccinated.

Dr Jonathan Temte, chairman of the US advisory committee on immunization practices, said those who caught measles probably were a few feet from someone with the illness who coughed or sneezed – and that many others were probably exposed.

“If you turn around and do the math, of the people at Disneyland at the time that this occurred, probably 90 to 95% were vaccinated,” Temte said. “All of a sudden you realize that is a much higher attack rate.”

Sligo1

Just a little blog I just read. No stats or anything like that. Just the opinion of one doctor. Very sad story .

http://www.bartbarrett.com/home/one-dead-child-two-foolish-parents#.VKnUAMXgHa8=

Roesy

Sligo1 wrote: »

Just a little blog I just read. No stats or anything like that. Just the opinion of one doctor. Very sad story .

http://www.bartbarrett.com/home/one-dead-child-two-foolish-parents#.VKnUAMXgHa8=

Saw that on Facebook this morning. So sad.

The Black Oil

The Disneyland story has at least received some media coverage. Hopefully it will make some parents think twice about making decisions based on low quality information.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

More fallout from the California measles outbreak:

http://cnn.it/1CJIeVo

What's absolutely shocking is that CNN managed to find an an anti-vaccine CARDIOLOGIST who gave these lovely informed words of wisdom:

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.

Someone needs to go back to med school methinks :eek: :eek: :eek:

SpaceTime

I'm just amazed at how vicious some people can get about this topic though.
A friend of mine who I would now rate as a 'former friend' absolutely took me apart for arguing in favour of vaccines and basically told me that I had no idea what I was talking about and that I should never have kids as I'm clearly an 'unfit parent'.

Pretty shocked and horrified tbh.

Sligo1

Cora Swift Sweatshop wrote: »

More fallout from the California measles outbreak:

http://cnn.it/1CJIeVo

What's absolutely shocking is that CNN managed to find an an anti-vaccine CARDIOLOGIST who gave these lovely informed words of wisdom:



Someone needs to go back to med school methinks :eek: :eek: :eek:

Words fail me. He should not be allowed to practice medicine. Especially considering the practice of medicine and health related diseases is based on research and evidence based practice.

January

Sligo1 wrote: »

Words fail me. He should not be allowed to practice medicine. Especially considering the practice of medicine and health related diseases is based on research and evidence based practice.

If he was the only cardiologist in America I'd travel outside it to get my child treated. Jebus.

Sligo1

And now this! I mean seriously... It's just beyond a joke. I'm totally stumped. Crazy crazy crazy.

http://thespudd.com/anti-vaccine-parents-refuse-to-let-child-wear-safety-harness-at-disneyland/

Tasden

Sligo1 wrote: »

And now this! I mean seriously... It's just beyond a joke. I'm totally stumped. Crazy crazy crazy.

http://thespudd.com/anti-vaccine-parents-refuse-to-let-child-wear-safety-harness-at-disneyland/

I'm not sure if you're being serious?

Das Kitty

Sligo1 wrote: »

And now this! I mean seriously... It's just beyond a joke. I'm totally stumped. Crazy crazy crazy.

http://thespudd.com/anti-vaccine-parents-refuse-to-let-child-wear-safety-harness-at-disneyland/

...It is a joke.

A satiric website.

Sligo1

Das Kitty wrote: »

...It is a joke.

A satiric website.

I was thinking that. And said it to the person who just text it to me. And they said it was for real.... Thank god it's satirical.

Jerrica

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm just amazed at how vicious some people can get about this topic though.
A friend of mine who I would now rate as a 'former friend' absolutely took me apart for arguing in favour of vaccines and basically told me that I had no idea what I was talking about and that I should never have kids as I'm clearly an 'unfit parent'.

Pretty shocked and horrified tbh.

This touches on something I was thinking about over the weekend. Have any of the parents here ever had to ask friends or family if they have vaccinated their children before letting their kids go on playdates? I'm very pro vaccinating, I think it's something I may well have to do, and I know I'll run the risk of alienating some people in doing so. But as a mother I have an obligation to keep my child safe, and (please God / universe / spaghetti monster it doesn't happen but) if we were to have a major outbreak of a preventable disease in Ireland I think I'd have to really assess who my child was exposed to. Am I being alarmist in saying that though? It already makes me uneasy that vaccination isn't mandatory in the creche she'll be in

pwurple

Jerrica wrote: »

This touches on something I was thinking about over the weekend. Have any of the parents here ever had to ask friends or family if they have vaccinated their children before letting their kids go on playdates?

Yes. Have done, and make no bones about it. We have two immuno-compromised people in our family/friend circle. I'm not having my kids carry something back from a playdate that could kill someone else.