Car stolen from driveway - keys in ignition

miss misty

I do this all the time, when icy of course, guess I better stop

Special Circumstances

ironclaw wrote: »

Also, I sincerely doubt this is opportunistic crime.

+1 this morning wasn't the first time these guys were there I'd say. That or some neighbour has been keeping tabs on who's got what where and when.
Depends on the area I suppose.

Hope your houses keys or anything else weren't on the keyring! If so time for a locksmith.

legomanx51v

zAbbo wrote: »

complaint upheld
By turning his back on the car and walking away from it, Mr A had fallen foul of the "keys in car" clause in the policy. In legal terms, he had left the car "unattended" - in other words he was not close enough to the car to make prevention of the theft likely, as established in Starfire Diamond Rings Ltd v Angel, (reported in 1962 in Volume 3 of the Lloyd's Law Reports, page 217); and in Hayward v Norwich Union Insurance Ltd, (reported in 2001 in the Road Traffic Reports, page 530).

Sorry to hear that this happened to you OP, I'd be raging!

This "keys in car" clause though, is it literal? What about cars with keyless push start buttons? The car can be started with the key in proximity and then you can walk away with the key and the car stays running. Hmm.

PCros

Special Circumstances wrote: »

+1 this morning wasn't the first time these guys were there I'd say. That or some neighbour has been keeping tabs on who's got what where and when.
Depends on the area I suppose.

Hope your houses keys or anything else weren't on the keyring! If so time for a locksmith.

House keys, pram, baby seat and license were in the car. Painful replacing these things.

Locksmith was around an hour later.

Guard said they would not return but for peace of mind.

amdublin

PCros wrote: »

House keys, pram, baby seat and license were in the car. Painful replacing these things.

Locksmith was around an hour later.

Guard said they would not return but for peace of mind.

Hopefully the car will be dumped somewhere.

OR that they will be stopped in it by the guards for something....

visual

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Plenty of know-it-alls here who never made a mistake in their life before. :rolleyes:

More like sheep who like rules to avoid thinking for themselves or facing reality that they are only one step away from being a victim

kerry4sam

PCros wrote: »

House keys, pram, baby seat and license were in the car. Painful replacing these things.

Locksmith was around an hour later.

Guard said they would not return but for peace of mind.

Crikey, not alien to your opening post at all thb. Thanks for starting a thread in here & informing people of this. Would assist others in being more vigilant if nothing else.
Hope you do hear good news about your car though.

Yeah you done the right thing by changing locks etc. Just have a read of this. I am sure that member of our Irish Police Force you met was only trying to make you feel some bit better, but in cases like this,
informing people of reality would be best imo,
kerry4sam

Cookie_Monster

To balance some of the replies.

My father in law had his Saab 93 stolen a good few years ago. Had just driven out of the school gate, got out to close and lock the gates, car left running (as he did every day) and stolen. After a good deal of agro with the insurance company he did get it covered and paid out. This is at least 8 years ago now.

It turned up in one of the Dublin Airport long term parks about 3 years later...

braddun

what make,where,number plate,someone will spot it

a photo would be nice

refusetolose

braddun wrote: »

what make,where,number plate,someone will spot it

a photo would be nice

all this info is in the thread ,did you even read it?

ARGINITE

I normally do the same thing, leave the car running to defrost but I lock it with a second set of keys before leaving it.

Yawns

ARGINITE wrote: »

I normally do the same thing, leave the car running to defrost but I lock it with a second set of keys before leaving it.

Yup I do this sometimes. Wonder what would happen insurance wise in that situation as the door would be locked, so they'd need to break into the car to steal it steal.

beauf

UK but might apply here...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504888/Driver-fined-leaving-engine-running-car-defrosted-outside-home.html

bucketybuck

visual wrote: »

More like sheep who like rules to avoid thinking for themselves

What on earth does this have to do with the situation in the OP? Or do you just like sheep?

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

What on earth does this have to do with the situation in the OP? Or do you just like sheep?

The question is what do you have against sheep??

corktina

Yawns wrote: »

Yup I do this sometimes. Wonder what would happen insurance wise in that situation as the door would be locked, so they'd need to break into the car to steal it steal.

i don't see it would make a difference.Somone who would steal your car, probably wouldn't be averse to smashing your window....car still stolen with the keys left in it = no insurance cover

Because not having the keys in it has stopped car theft?

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Because not having the keys in it has stopped car theft?

:rolleyes:

Yawns

corktina wrote: »

i don't see it would make a difference.Somone who would steal your car, probably wouldn't be averse to smashing your window....car still stolen with the keys left in it = no insurance cover

During the summer at a set of lights, if you have a window open and someone holds a knife to your throat and demands you get out. My life is worth more than my car, so if it's stolen that way can insurance companies refuse to payout?

If you have a set of keys in the ignition, but doors are locked and thief smashes the window, how could they not pay out. Same way if they smash a window, get in and hotwire a car I would have thought. Not all cars have immobilizers.

bucketybuck

Yawns wrote: »

If you have a set of keys in the ignition, but doors are locked and thief smashes the window, how could they not pay out. Same way if they smash a window, get in and hotwire a car I would have thought. Not all cars have immobilizers.

Except it isn't the same at all.

The absence of the ignition key is a massive impediment to having your car stolen, this is so patently obvious I can't can't believe it needs to be said.

Without the ignition key, there is only a tiny percentage of the population who would have the technical ability to hotwire and then steal a car. With the keys in the ignition any numpty can jump in and immediately drive away. How is this difference not obvious?

I do this all the time and to be honest.

However I know to never ever admit the keys were in the car were it stolen.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Except it isn't the same at all.

The absence of the ignition key is a massive impediment to having your car stolen, this is so patently obvious I can't can't believe it needs to be said.

Without the ignition key, there is only a tiny percentage of the population who would have the technical ability to hotwire and then steal a car. With the keys in the ignition any numpty can jump in and immediately drive away. How is this difference not obvious?

Is it any less of a crime and theft?

BostonB

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it any less of a crime and theft?

The issue is insurance. Not crime.

BostonB

BostonB wrote: »

The issue is insurance. Not crime.

And insurance against crime?

jimgoose

Deleted User wrote: »

And insurance against crime?

Crime is crime, is crime. This is understood. You don't insure against crime per sé, you insure against loss. Regardless of any crime involved, an insurer may take the view that you were negligent in securing and/or looking after your property, and thus take issue with a claim. If the scenario corresponds to a specific exclusion in the policy, you could be in the shít business.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it any less of a crime and theft?

That it is a crime does not give you license to make it as easy as humanly possible for the thief, there is still an obligation to take reasonable measures to protect against possible theft and rightly so.

Insurance companies are right to protect themselves against claimants who don't even do the minimum to secure their cars.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

That it is a crime does not give you license to make it as easy as humanly possible for the thief, there is still an obligation to take reasonable measures to protect against possible theft and rightly so.

Insurance companies are right to protect themselves against claimants who don't even do the minimum to secure their cars.

Which is why I asked where the car was parked.

If I have my car running, say I forgot my wallet and run back to the table to get it, it is behind my house, out of sight, up a 50m driveway, behind a locked gate and down a small private road with a few houses. If someone was looking to steal my car and did so then they were going to take it regardless of a key or not.

BostonB

Deleted User wrote: »

And insurance against crime?

No only insurance against what's in your policy.

Not all crime. I would have thought that was obvious.

SoapMcTavish

I run my car in the drive occasionally - but I make sure my stoplock is on the steering - cheap and cheerful ....

Mr_Red

SoapMcTavish wrote: »

I run my car in the drive occasionally - but I make sure my stoplock is on the steering - cheap and cheerful ....

Where do you keep the key for that lock? Hopefully not on your car keys which is in the ignition:pac:

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone was looking to steal my car and did so then they were going to take it regardless of a key or not.

Why do you keep saying this? As if the presence of the ignition key is some minor matter?

Fact is, with modern cars if somebody is looking to steal your car they will not be able to do so without obtaining the ignition key. There is a reason so many car thefts now involve breaking into a house first, or deceiving the driver in some fashion to get him out of the car while the key is in the ignition.

You cannot just state that they are going to take it regardless of the key, in a vast majority of cases that simply isn't true.

BostonB

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is why I asked where the car was parked.

If I have my car running, say I forgot my wallet and run back to the table to get it, it is behind my house, out of sight, up a 50m driveway, behind a locked gate and down a small private road with a few houses. If someone was looking to steal my car and did so then they were going to take it regardless of a key or not.

I think you are missing the reality of how insurance work, or insurance companies or car keys in general.

BostonB

BostonB wrote: »

I think you are missing the reality of how insurance work, or insurance companies or car keys in general.

So the crook sees your keys in the house, fishpoles them and takes your car.

He got the keys but are you liable?

ronn

I always tell the wife to start the car in the mornings to heat it up and she gives out saying it could be robbed, I never thought the scumbags be up early in the mornings,

SoapMcTavish

Mr_Red wrote: »

Where do you keep the key for that lock? Hopefully not on your car keys which is in the ignition:pac:

Lol - My car key is one of them credit card renault things - so stoplock key is in my pocket when car is warming up. Even though I have an immobiliser and alarm - I actually use that stoplock every night - it's very visible and hopefully makes would be thieves move on to next target.

jimgoose

SoapMcTavish wrote: »

Lol - My car key is one of them credit card renault things - so stoplock key is in my pocket when car is warming up. Even though I have an immobiliser and alarm - I actually use that stoplock every night - it's very visible and hopefully makes would be thieves move on to next target.

Good yokes, them. I have two and they look the part at least, especially with the little flashing LED.

BostonB

ronn wrote: »

I always tell the wife to start the car in the mornings to heat it up and she gives out saying it could be robbed, I never thought the scumbags be up early in the mornings,

Theres a term for it. Puffers. They see the car puffing out smoke and target it.

https://www.auroragov.org/LivingHere/PublicSafety/CrimePrevention/AutoTheftandPufferLaw/index.htm

corktina

Deleted User wrote: »

So the crook sees your keys in the house, fishpoles them and takes your car.

He got the keys but are you liable?

In this example the keys have been stolen and no doubt the Insurance will pay.You have not been negligent. If you leave them in the ignition, you are negligent

Sam Kade

Why not just invest in a car cover or use warm water? I know people want to have the car warm when they sit in but it doesn't take long to heat up. Idling a cold engine for long periods before driving isn't great for the engine.

gctest50

Remote start is what ya need

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ1j9UJroHE

http://www.viper.com

http://www.amazon.com/b?node=15736151

P_Fitz

how about telling the insurance company your left the keys in the front door and they were taken from there? Then it wouldn't be burgulary

BostonB

corktina wrote: »

In this example the keys have been stolen and no doubt the Insurance will pay.You have not been negligent. If you leave them in the ignition, you are negligent

What if your policy has a clause regarding keys that are fished from the front door?

MugMugs

P_Fitz wrote: »

how about telling the insurance company your left the keys in the front door and they were taken from there? Then it wouldn't be burgulary

Because if it's untrue, then it's fraud. And if the keys were on the outside of the door, you've failed your duty of care to keep the keys safe.

---

My neighbour does this all the time. I wanred her to stop. Her car was stolen.

She got a new car. Went out this morning to scrape my car and low and behold her new motor was sitting on the drive humming away.

Some people genuinely don't learn.

BostonB

Sam Kade wrote: »

Why not just invest in a car cover or use warm water? I know people want to have the car warm when they sit in but it doesn't take long to heat up. Idling a cold engine for long periods before driving isn't great for the engine.

Usually its to clear the windows (on the inside) so its safe to drive. Especially if you have an older car which might have minor leak or such.

jimgoose

P_Fitz wrote: »

how about telling the insurance company your left the keys in the front door and they were taken from there? Then it wouldn't be burgulary

It wouldn't be burglary no, but it would still be being a damn fool about it.

ThisRegard

SoapMcTavish wrote: »

Lol - My car key is one of them credit card renault things -

You can leave the car running and remove the card. I don't think it allows you to lock the car though with it running and card removed.

jimgoose

ThisRegard wrote: »

You can leave the car running and remove the card. I don't think it allows you to lock the car though with it running and card removed.

Hmm. I know for a fact you can leave a 2010 5-Series running, lock it, and wander off with the key.

ThisRegard

I think with the Renault it doesn't let you lock it, probably one of their many safety features. I don't remember if I actually tried it, but for some reason or another I don't think the car can be locked.

jimgoose

ThisRegard wrote: »

I think with the Renault it doesn't let you lock it, probably one of their many safety features. I don't remember if I actually tried it, but for some reason or another I don't think the car can be locked.

That would be a strange usage of the word "safety" with which I am hitherto unversed. Typical Renault! :pac:

Henry Ford III

P_Fitz wrote: »

how about telling the insurance company your left the keys in the front door and they were taken from there? Then it wouldn't be burgulary

It would be deception though.