Fingal / North Dublin Transport Study

Sam Russell

I think the design has been done it has been proposed for over a decade, and Clongriffin station appears to be designed with it in mind - why else would it have more than two platforms?

Bray Head

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the design has been done it has been proposed for over a decade, and Clongriffin station appears to be designed with it in mind - why else would it have more than two platforms?

I can draw a line on a map from Clongriffin to Dublin Airport. This is more or less what the report does.

I am not a civil engineer but I think there is a lot of difference between that and a design. You would need to look at current land use, land ownership, gradients, tunnel or bridge under M1, where to put the station at the airport, etc.

I am open to correction but I don't think anything like that is in the public domain.

Idbatterim

They might end up building the dart from clongriffin to airport and onto swords and luas to airport where it could hook up with dart.

at least with the luas hooking up with dart at connolly etc, you could choose to take luas to dart and then onto airport as opposed to the epic slow journey the luas will be taking if it goes to the airport... which probably wouldnt be too bad if you are starting off around O'Connell street etc, but if you are starting at dundrum, sandyford etc, the luas journey would be laughable time wise. I would never use it...

there is no way a luas can serve swords and the airport alone... would the alternative I propose, be likely? given that costs would not be astronomical and it might have enough capacity to do the job?

monument

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the design has been done it has been proposed for over a decade, and Clongriffin station appears to be designed with it in mind - why else would it have more than two platforms?

When there's 'slow' and 'fast' trains usung the same tracks, it's a good idea to have more than two platforms.

Bray Head

Idbatterim wrote: »

at least with the luas hooking up with dart at connolly etc, you could choose to take luas to dart and then onto airport as opposed to the epic slow journey the luas will be taking if it goes to the airport... which probably wouldnt be too bad if you are starting off around O'Connell street etc, but if you are starting at dundrum, sandyford etc, the luas journey would be laughable time wise. I would never use it...

How would this be any quicker than the Aircoach from O'Connell St? This has never taken me more than 30 minutes, even at peak times.

Airport-City Centre is already served well by a bus service. The advantage (if any) to a Clongfriffin spur would be linking Dublin Bay residents (north and south) better with the airport. My own view is that a coastal coach (via Port Tunnel) would take care of the south Dublin Bay to airport route more quickly and with zero additional capital spend.

Idbatterim

...to which the "solution" will be some half baked BRT for the poor people to use and more car parks for everyone else. The vision just isn't there.

its funny because you live in Germany now and my dad moved here in the 70's and he has been saying the same as you for decades at this stage, there is absolutely no vision here... BUT I dont even think the clowns here are capable of BRT as a replacement for a rail link, much to their dismay, we are so far passed that in terms of requirements...

We are talking about vision, what in gods name is the situation going to be like in say 5-6 years, even if we gave the go ahead now?! The airport numbers are exploding and if you look on skyscrapercity etc, the amount of new development about to kick off in the docklands and massive requirement for housing, is going to be boomesque... a commercial 4 storey building built relatively recently, has already been ripped down and a new bigger building will replace it.

The luas option is nearly as laughable as BRT IMO...

Idbatterim

How would this be any quicker than the Aircoach from O'Connell St? This has never taken me more than 30 minutes, even at peak times.

yeah from O'Connell street it isnt bad, its getting to O'connell street from the likes of Ballsbridge , D.2 etc that can take an age. I stopped using aircoach... with the crosscity work etc, its just chaos at peak times. My parents nearly missed a flight recently on aircoach due to gridlock in town, due to traffic works... The new cat and cage bus lane, will help things for sure...

The advantage (if any) to a Clongfriffin spur would be linking Dublin Bay residents (north and south) better with the airport. My own view is that a coastal coach (via Port Tunnel) would take care of the south Dublin Bay to airport route more quickly and with zero additional capital spend.

I agree... everything being routed through such narrow channels in dublin is problematic... It would be great if they constructed the eastern bypass... My opinion is the quicker the growth and the quicker the place grinds to a halt again the better, as they are not going to be able to ignore the problems...

Sam Russell

monument wrote: »

When there's 'slow' and 'fast' trains usung the same tracks, it's a good idea to have more than two platforms.

Surely that would apply more to Malahide where Dart trains wait in the station. Clongriffin has been built from the ground up when IR had planned the link to the airport - just look around the layout of the station. Even Howth Junction cannot cope with fast and slow trains.

cgcsb

Bray Head wrote: »

I can draw a line on a map from Clongriffin to Dublin Airport. This is more or less what the report does.

I am not a civil engineer but I think there is a lot of difference between that and a design. You would need to look at current land use, land ownership, gradients, tunnel or bridge under M1, where to put the station at the airport, etc.

I am open to correction but I don't think anything like that is in the public domain.

it's very flat and is entirely open country, in engineering terms it'd be one of the simplest major projects you could do.

Whether or not it's worth the money is a matter for debate, certainly it'd be useless without DARTu

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

its funny because you live in Germany now and my dad moved here in the 70's and he has been saying the same as you for decades at this stage, there is absolutely no vision here... BUT I dont even think the clowns here are capable of BRT as a replacement for a rail link, much to their dismay, we are so far passed that in terms of requirements...

We are talking about vision, what in gods name is the situation going to be like in say 5-6 years, even if we gave the go ahead now?! The airport numbers are exploding and if you look on skyscrapercity etc, the amount of new development about to kick off in the docklands and massive requirement for housing, is going to be boomesque... a commercial 4 storey building built relatively recently, has already been ripped down and a new bigger building will replace it.

The luas option is nearly as laughable as BRT IMO...

The plans we've seen so far for BRT are laughable with BRT lanes 'sharing' with left turning cars, really stooopid stuff in this day and age.

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah from O'Connell street it isnt bad, its getting to O'connell street from the likes of Ballsbridge , D.2 etc that can take an age. I stopped using aircoach... with the crosscity work etc, its just chaos at peak times. My parents nearly missed a flight recently on aircoach due to gridlock in town, due to traffic works... The new cat and cage bus lane, will help things for sure...

I agree... everything being routed through such narrow channels in dublin is problematic... It would be great if they constructed the eastern bypass... My opinion is the quicker the growth and the quicker the place grinds to a halt again the better, as they are not going to be able to ignore the problems...

what is the point of sinking billions into an eastern bypass while metro north and DARTu remain on the drawing board.

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

what is the point of sinking billions into an eastern bypass while metro north and DARTu remain on the drawing board.

Because it would be for cars.

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

Because it would be for cars.

and clearly that's way down the pecking order in large capital projects.

Idbatterim

Whether or not it's worth the money is a matter for debate, certainly it'd be useless without DARTu

would you go quite as far as useless? with the PPT serving Connolly shortly...

The plans we've seen so far for BRT are laughable with BRT lanes 'sharing' with left turning cars, really stooopid stuff in this day and age.

I can only imagine what they have "planned"... nothing surprises me here!

what is the point of sinking billions into an eastern bypass while metro north and DARTu remain on the drawing board.

I mean it would be nice to have, after MN, DU etc, Dublin needs major money spent on it, just to bring transport up to a decent standard...

cgcsb

perhaps useful if you live near the northern end of the dart line and you want to go to the airport.

Bray Head

markpb

Hardly surprising. It's the least progressed of all the proposals so there's no rush committing money for it, certainly nothing before the next election. It's rail so it's swankier than BRT but not so swanky that it'll cause outrage among non-Dublin voters. Any politician knows that proposing to spend millions on BRT (which is basically buses, right?) would cause consternation so even if its cheaper, it's not worth the bother. Plus It's Luas which is a good brand in Dublin (and beyond).

My only surprise is that they're proposing an underground line. After all, why would Dublin need an underground line, that's only for property cities? Objections to it running under GC is probably the way they'll go about watering that down (our more likely what will allow the next government to send the whole project back to consultants for review).

I can't see the Dart spur happening, no votes in that at all and anyone who thought DU had a hope of being approved needs their head examined!

murphaph

Mickey Mouse country.

D.L.R.

So the Mail on Sunday article main points:

- Luas option to Airport/Swords favoured (just so happens to go thru Pascal's back yard)
- M20 Mallow Bypass
- M7 Naas Bypass Widening
- N5 upgrades

No Dart spur - deemed "too complicated and lengthy" :pac:

Not even a mention for Dart Underground, and with all that EU funding available... :mad:

Mickey mouse country indeed.

Idbatterim

Surely it can be appealed when it goes to planning as not fit for purpose?!

markpb

Idbatterim wrote: »

Surely it can be appealed when it goes to planning as not fit for purpose?!

That's not a planning decision. All ABP can decide is if it's compliant with planning law and any local development plan.

Idbatterim

markpb wrote: »

That's not a planning decision. All ABP can decide is if it's compliant with planning law and any local development plan.

Let's hope ff promise mn as a potential vote winner and hope they get in with Fg... Who knows. As Luas is least progressed, this may simply be delay stunt by fg... Can anyone post the article up here? So it appears fg, have totally shafted us, no du and airport Luas. They should have given go ahead for du and said mn or heavy rail is best option for airport / swords, but not enough funds at present to allow it to proceed...

Schadenfreudia

Of all the options the Luas Airport is the worst. It will merely delay a proper rail connection for at least a decade.

I also note that spending €1 billion/annum on new transport infrastructure is described by the Mail as a "splurge". That's about 0.02% of GDP/annum being spend on investment in transport infrastructure.

Some "splurge" :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Note how no amount of money spent on welfare or ps increases would ever be described as a splurge... Looks like our fears were founded...

At least with du they start it it they don't. Swords / airport always had option of botch job, which is what they have gone for. Whether it will be built or not, who knows...

D.L.R.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Let's hope ff promise mn as a potential vote winner and hope they get in with Fg

My biggest concern with a FG/FF govt is that they'll be too busy trying to undermine eachother for the next 5 years to actually govern effectively.

VeryOwl

So depressingly predictable.

Luas Airport won't be built either.

VeryOwl

VeryOwl wrote: »

So depressingly predictable.

Luas Airport won't be built either.

It would be better if it isn't built. Its not fit for purpose and therefore a waste of money. Consultants must be delighted, more money for them when it gets redesigned again.

Pete_Cavan

Since when does anyone give any credence to headlines in the Irish Mail on Sunday? There will be an announcement in the next few weeks, best to wait until that rather than over reacting to tabloid headlines based on speculation.

Sam Russell

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Since when does anyone give any credence to headlines in the Irish Mail on Sunday? There will be an announcement in the next few weeks, best to wait until that rather than over reacting to tabloid headlines based on speculation.

I would imagine that it is a bit of kite flying - see what reaction it gets.

Lenton Lane

If that Irish Mail on Sunday report that Luas to the airport is what will be delivered at the expense of a heavy rail link from Clongriffin then the officials in the Department of Transport have confirmed that they are truly stupid and shortsighted beyond words.