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2015 TI Race Calendar

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    #122
    DaveR1
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭DaveR1


    Ceepo wrote: »
    If u race and win 4 n's races and let's say I do a different 4 races and win them and for good measure lets say Zico races a completely different 4 races and wins them.
    It will be in the lap of the gods who has the most points. Which will determine who wins the NS
    Ceepo wrote: »
    So in summary, as a mass participation event it probably a great idea. As a competition it's a load of b@ll@x

    I don't believe this is true, and I believe scoring from the past few years proves it.

    If all 3 athletes are "the same" in terms of ability, as in race head to head, and they will all finish within 30 seconds of each other then yes it will be down to luck.

    But if we race head to head and athlete A will always beat athlete B by 1 minute and athlete B will always beat athlete C by 1 minute then the final result in the series will be A,B,C. I believe the National Series has provided a very fair top 10 athletes each year all in about the right order too + or - 1 or two places.

    But lets be honest looking at athletes with "the same ability". The head to head race will be down to a bit of luck too. Transition goes right, swim, bike or run is too long or short, will favour one of the 3 athletes on the day. In the end it is a series, to choose the best athlete over a number of races and I feel always has achieved this with a large degree of success.

    Calling it a b@ll@x of a system is downright stupid. It has been fair and accurate. Of course some races are worth a bit more or less than others but over the course of 5 races it evens itself out and is a pretty accurate reflection of the athlete standings.


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    #123
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    DaveR1 wrote: »
    I don't believe this is true, and I believe scoring from the past few years proves it.

    If all 3 athletes are "the same" in terms of ability, as in race head to head, and they will all finish within 30 seconds of each other then yes it will be down to luck.

    But if we race head to head and athlete A will always beat athlete B by 1 minute and athlete B will always beat athlete C by 1 minute then the final result in the series will be A,B,C. I believe the National Series has provided a very fair top 10 athletes each year all in about the right order too + or - 1 or two places.

    But lets be honest looking at athletes with "the same ability". The head to head race will be down to a bit of luck too. Transition goes right, swim, bike or run is too long or short, will favour one of the 3 athletes on the day. In the end it is a series, to choose the best athlete over a number of races and I feel always has achieved this with a large degree of success.

    Calling it a b@ll@x of a system is downright stupid. It has been fair and accurate. Of course some races are worth a bit more or less than others but over the course of 5 races it evens itself out and is a pretty accurate reflection of the athlete standings.

    Ok calling it a load of B@ll@x might have been a bit strong, so i will go with Flawed.

    To take your A, B, C demo, athlete C will be 2 min's slower in a head to head, so i will call him the lesser of them, agree ?
    And if athlete C never races athlete A, thet are still the lesser athlete but is still concievable could win the NS, argee?

    Flawed system ?

    I also think that athletes should have to do at least 1 of the National Champ race to qualify for the overall title


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    #124
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    There's a subtext to this argument I can't quite put my finger on. Do you have an issue with the final result of the 2014 NS as a matter of interest?

    There are some who do, objectively speaking.


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    #125
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    MojoMaker wrote: »
    There's a subtext to this argument I can't quite put my finger on. Do you have an issue with the final result of the 2014 NS as a matter of interest?

    There are some who do, objectively speaking.

    Don't know if you are referring to my post mojo maker.
    I have no real gripe with last year's results. At least the top guys raced each other. Now you could agrue that the guy that had the most wins didnt win
    But as it was a points system not a who wins the most system that wins the overall NS.

    More highlighting what I see as a flaw in this years system.
    Now you could also agrue that the up coming seasons is a point system as well however tare is a lot more varible involved ('14 5 out of 20 races, '15 4 out of 29)
    It is probably a combination of more races on the calendar and having to do 1 less race this year..
    IT has been pointed out on this forum over the years about the NS not been ideal and I don't think this is an improvement. But that's my opinion.
    It may well turn out to be a great idea and without doubt something needed to be done
    However i think in Cat 1 is a great idea.


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    #126
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    If all the eligible CAT1s show up to the new CAT1 competition, including our travelling ITU competitors, I think it will be a cracking and "true" elite National Series next year. If however our ITU folks stay away I think we'll see 2014 NS all over again (at the top level), but with less opportunity to cherry pick events for points spreads etc - should in theory make it more reflective of the winner's true ability.

    If the real elite don't buy into this though, then one has to wonder I guess.


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    #127
    DaveR1
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭DaveR1


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Ok calling it a load of B@ll@x might have been a bit strong, so i will go with Flawed.

    To take your A, B, C demo, athlete C will be 2 min's slower in a head to head, so i will call him the lesser of them, agree ?
    And if athlete C never races athlete A, thet are still the lesser athlete but is still concievable could win the NS, argee?

    Flawed system ?

    I also think that athletes should have to do at least 1 of the National Champ race to qualify for the overall title

    This is where I disagree. 2 minutes is worth approx 3 points at the top end of racing. Even if athlete C does races with high points he won't win the series.

    Take the top 4 from this year. Aaron beat Thomasz in the two races they raced head to head by 31 seconds in a sprint and 46 seconds in an olympic. Its therefore very possible that on his best race day Thomasz could have beaten aaron and so who finishes on top going to be close.

    However, if its a 2 minute gap and A will always beat C, then A will finish on top. Of the top 10 in the NS this year is there anyone who should be in a higher position? I don't think so.

    I feel overall its a fair system. And definitely as fair a system as you are going to get without forcing people to travel the country to race. If an athlete from Donegal finishes ahead of an athlete from Cork without ever racing head to head, if the points are close they are probably very similar in ability and on any given day either to beat the other. But if the gap is more than 5 points then I'd be fairly confident Donegal would win the All Ireland next year!!


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    #128
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    DaveR1 wrote: »
    This is where I disagree. 2 minutes is worth approx 3 points at the top end of racing. Even if athlete C does races with high points he won't win the series.

    Take the top 4 from this year. Aaron beat Thomasz in the two races they raced head to head by 31 seconds in a sprint and 46 seconds in an olympic. Its therefore very possible that on his best race day Thomasz could have beaten aaron and so who finishes on top going to be close.

    However, if its a 2 minute gap and A will always beat C, then A will finish on top. Of the top 10 in the NS this year is there anyone who should be in a higher position? I don't think so.

    I feel overall its a fair system. And definitely as fair a system as you are going to get without forcing people to travel the country to race. If an athlete from Donegal finishes ahead of an athlete from Cork without ever racing head to head, if the points are close they are probably very similar in ability and on any given day either to beat the other. But if the gap is more than 5 points then I'd be fairly confident Donegal would win the All Ireland next year!!

    Lets all just agree that the NS is the pinnacle of human competition, making even the ancient gladiatorial games pale into insignificance in comparison.


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    #129
    DaveR1
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭DaveR1


    tunney wrote: »
    Lets all just agree that the NS is the pinnacle of human competition, making even the ancient gladiatorial games pale into insignificance in comparison.

    Once again you manage to say something that is absolutely no benefit to the discussion that is being had. If you've nothing useful to say then don't.

    You should climb down from the imaginary pedestal of absolute greatness you have built for yourself and try to regain some perspective.

    Since the changes to the NS the questions have become "Is it a fair method of determining a promotion system for future years?" I think it is, my reasoning has been outlined previously.

    "Is it a fair method of comparison between athletes who have never raced eachother?" Again I think it is, for reasons outlined above.

    If you want to disagree then please do, but don't be destroying a whole thread with stupid comments.


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    #130
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    okay, nothing to do with the NS, but just the calendar in general.


    trying to put together my race calendar, was looking for something in munster in early/mid july. not a single race in munster in july until the 25th, and then there are two NS races on the same day.

    not giving out, but it would make sense if they were spaced a bit better


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    #131
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    Has anyone ever done Lakeside triathlon in Ballyshannon? I know the area very well and would be interested in it but it is the Saturday after Dublin City Olympic. Didn't realize it was in Ballyshannon until just now when I was going through the calendar.

    Sights set at the moment on Crooked Lake, Belfast, Dublin City, and Pulse. With Dublin being my A race.

    Contemplating adding in Lakeside now, I'm assuming if I ma targeting Dublin as my A race I should be in best shape around then so Lakeside should be ok so soon after or would my A race take too much out of me?


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    #132
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,397 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    mossym wrote: »
    okay, nothing to do with the NS, but just the calendar in general.

    trying to put together my race calendar, was looking for something in munster in early/mid july. not a single race in munster in july until the 25th, and then there are two NS races on the same day.

    not giving out, but it would make sense if they were spaced a bit better
    Unfortunate, but not sure how that can be avoided really. Each race has it's date decide by local factors; volunteers, traffic, tides etc. TI then have to pull together a series based on the races available to them.

    Don't think they could tell race A you have to be 2nd weekend June, race B first week July etc.


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    #133
    shansey
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭shansey


    68 lost souls wrote: »
    Has anyone ever done Lakeside triathlon in Ballyshannon? I know the area very well and would be interested in it but it is the Saturday after Dublin City Olympic. Didn't realize it was in Ballyshannon until just now when I was going through the calendar.

    Sights set at the moment on Crooked Lake, Belfast, Dublin City, and Pulse. With Dublin being my A race.

    Contemplating adding in Lakeside now, I'm assuming if I ma targeting Dublin as my A race I should be in best shape around then so Lakeside should be ok so soon after or would my A race take too much out of me?

    Ive done it the past two years as its, in tri terms, on my doorstep.. its a great fast course and good food and a t shirt for the €35 it was back then.. even managed to come 12th last year which was a boost.

    but then again results mean absolutely nothing apparently..


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    #134
    boysinblack
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭boysinblack


    Anyone get their two provinces entry today?


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    #135
    Dowee
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Dowee


    boysinblack wrote: »
    Anyone get their two provinces entry today?

    When I try and enter this race on the TI site there is no "Enter" button on the right, is it not open, sold out?


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    #136
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Shedite27 wrote: »

    Don't think they could tell race A you have to be 2nd weekend June, race B first week July etc.

    Yes they can and have done in the past.

    Re the NS I've said it before, its about the smartest racer not necessarily the best ir fastest.

    The premiership champion is not always the team that won the most games, its the team with the most points regardless of how they get the points (least losses / more draws etc)


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    #137
    BTH
    Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    boysinblack wrote: »
    Anyone get their two provinces entry today?
    Dowee wrote: »
    When I try and enter this race on the TI site there is no "Enter" button on the right, is it not open, sold out?

    Entered it this morning lads, so whatever issue they did have is sorted now.


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    #138
    Dowee
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Dowee


    BTH wrote: »
    Entered it this morning lads, so whatever issue they did have is sorted now.

    Still the same for me. I don't have a TI license at the minute, could that be causing an issue? It looks like I can enter other races but the option to enter this one isn't there.


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    #139
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    Perhaps you need to clear your cache on your browser?

    I was not logged in and it appears for me.


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    #140
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    Trithlone half distance National championship also opened today
    http://www.triathlone.com/

    200m upriver 1700m down, 1 lap bike course, 3 laps of 7k on the run.
    Comes with a nice hefty price tag as well. And anyone can have a nice hoodie if they have a spare e50,00 :eek::eek:


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    #141
    rodneyr1981
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭rodneyr1981


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Trithlone half distance National championship also opened today
    http://www.triathlone.com/

    200m upriver 1700m down, 1 lap bike course, 3 laps of 7k on the run.
    Comes with a nice hefty price tag as well. And anyone can have a nice hoodie if they have a spare e50,00 :eek::eek:

    Interesting I had assumed this race was the shadowman race.


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    #142
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    rodneyr1981 wrote: »
    Interesting I had assumed this race was the shadowman race.

    As did I


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    #143
    EC1000
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    Ceepo wrote: »
    As did I

    Think it kind of is. They have moved the swim in to town but the bike is the same except clockwise. The run seems different alright, back into town centre with it. Same organisers and they seem to have taken the best parts of triathlone and shadowman to create this course...


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    #144
    rodneyr1981
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭rodneyr1981


    EC1000 wrote: »
    Think it kind of is. They have moved the swim in to town but the bike is the same except clockwise. The run seems different alright, back into town centre with it. Same organisers and they seem to have taken the best parts of triathlone and shadowman to create this course...

    Sounds good. Def on my race list


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    #145
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    mossym wrote: »
    okay, nothing to do with the NS, but just the calendar in general.

    trying to put together my race calendar, was looking for something in munster in early/mid july. not a single race in munster in july until the 25th, and then there are two NS races on the same day.

    not giving out, but it would make sense if they were spaced a bit better
    Lough Derg Sprint is July 18th
    North Tipp Sprint is April 11th. Nenagh Tri just put up their dates today.
    Entries €30 for NTS and €35 for LDS and deal for entering both right now is €55


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    #146
    niamh.foley
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭niamh.foley


    Only One Race im aiming for and thats the Lost Sheep. I might do one OLY just to see how i am.


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    #147
    shansey
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭shansey


    niamh.foley wrote: »
    Only One Race im aiming for and thats the Lost Sheep. I might do one OLY just to see how i am.

    Lost Sheep or bust!!!


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    #148
    niamh.foley
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭niamh.foley


    shansey wrote: »
    Lost Sheep or bust!!!


    Should be ok, have 30 weeks do a few molly gap and Healy cycles maybe twice a month. for the next 4 months and do a nice slow brick session 2months out on the course do the whole Cycle route and do the 8mile run of the run course at a nice 9 - 11 min mile pace not two heavy


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