Do you wear visibility gear when running in the dark?

This Fat Girl Runs

I'm asking because yesterday on my run in the morning (it was dark) I saw someone else running who was wearing zero visibility gear. Nothing reflecting, no lights etc. The street lights were still on but this person was very hard to actually see.

I was a bit surprised but maybe it's not unusual for people to go without visibility gear?

Personally, I wear a top with reflective strips, reflector armbands (around my wrists as they don't fit around my arms ) and an LED light armband.

Just wondered what the general consensus was amongst the board.

IvoryTower

nope, but i run on the paths

the paths have been quite icy lately so the plan is to get lots of shiny stuff so i can run on the road when needs be

deadybai

If it was early morning and few cars on the road than I wouldnt be too pushed

walshb

Always! Asking for trouble at night if you don't. Even on footpaths. Best to be seen.

Cabaal

If I'm out on country roads at night I wear reflective top, two flashing/reflective arm bands, headtorch and red flashing light on the back of me. I may be lit up like a Christmas tree but if it prevents me getting killed then happy days.

On footpaths I only wear reflective top which I wear anytime I'm out running in dark anyway.

Even if you run on paths odds are you'll cross atleast one junction so it makes sense to wear a reflective top at the very min,

RayCun

I wear that vest given out at the race series half marathon (?)
I run on paths and in parks, not on the road

walshb

I don't think the location is the real issue. It's the visibility. Whether it's parks or paths or roads, at night and when the light is poor I think being seen is very important.

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Asking for trouble at night if you don't.

It's not. Do you wear high vis if you were out for a walk at night on the paths ?

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not. Do you wear high vis if you were out for a walk at night on the paths ?

Yes.

I thought the question was on running at night/in the dark?

adrian522

walshb wrote: »

I don't think the location is the real issue. It's the visibility. Whether it's parks or paths or roads, at night and when the light is poor I think being seen is very important.

Why is being seen in paths in parks very important?

walshb

adrian522 wrote: »

Why is being seen in paths in parks very important?

Just because you are on a path doesn't man that you can be seen and are safe. Other people use paths, some running, walking and biking. Simple: At night and in darkness best to be lit up and visible. I have to say that around my area I would see 90 percent of walkers/runners on paths wearing high viz clothing when at night.

This Fat Girl Runs

I should clarify this was in Dublin, on a darker street and both of us were running on the footpath.

I think I'd rather be safe than sorry so will wear reflective gear anytime it's dark, even with the street lights on.

crisco10

I run on footpaths in Dublin but generally wear this jacket. I tend to run at 5 - 6pm or 7 - 8am so come into contact with lots of junctions and cars so I think I would be nutty to not wear Hi-Vis at this time of year!

I used to wear the armbands before i got that coat but got annoyed with them as my arms are too skinny so they just slide down all the time, start somewhere at my armpit and end up at my wrist - v.annoying.

Ruu

Gets darker a little after 4 these days and the days are quite dreary as well, so always wear something. If I don't have my headlamp, I have a small light that I carry from the RSA. Coat I wear has reflective strips and so do parts of my shoes. If I know that I will be out past dark, I will wear something else.

Ed Mc

All my running is on country roads.
During the day I always wear a hi vis top. When im driving I'll always spot them quicker than a runner without one. So the sooner im seen the safer ill be.

At night ill wear a hi vis top and head torch with a flashing red bike light attached to the back during the milder months.

At the moment with fog or heavy rain ill add flashing red armbands, upper and lower arm and my gloves are reflective.

The usual jokes about being a running christmas tree etc. but it allows me to focus on a run rather than worry if im seen or not.
I got a bright yellow reflective hat last christmas but that would be just silly looking.:-)

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Yes.

I thought the question was on running at night/in the dark?

You're the one who said "even on paths".

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

You're the one who said "even on paths".

Yes, I did. So?

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Always! Asking for trouble at night if you don't. Even on footpaths. Best to be seen.

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not. Do you wear high vis if you were out for a walk at night on the paths ?

walshb wrote: »

Yes.

I thought the question was on running at night/in the dark?

ThisRegard wrote: »

You're the one who said "even on paths".

walshb wrote: »

Yes, I did. So?

Seriously ? You're chasing your own tail.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

Seriously ? You're chasing your own tail

What is your point?

Seems you are trying to make the thread far more complicated than it should be.

Running at night in the dark I would advise to wear high viz. That includes running on paths or roads or anywhere at night or in darkness for that matter. The OP didn't specify where exactly the night time running takes place.

You disagree with that? No problem.

You asked me if I wear high viz whilst walking on paths at night. You asked me this. I simply answered yes. One word.

walshb

Ed Mc wrote: »

The usual jokes about being a running christmas tree etc. but it allows me to focus on a run rather than worry if im seen or not.
I got a bright yellow reflective hat last christmas but that would be just silly looking.:-)

Better to be joked about than to be badly injured/killed from a collision because you weren't visible enough.

PaulieC

I wear brightly coloured tops if I remember (or if I have anything clean). Since I run in the city and on paths I don't feel the need to be lit up, where I probably would if I were running on country roads.
As for crossing roads etc. I use these things I have called senses. One of them allows me to see traffic approaching, another one lets me hear things that are going on around me. They are really amazing those senses

28064212

PaulieC wrote: »

I wear brightly coloured tops if I remember (or if I have anything clean). Since I run in the city and on paths I don't feel the need to be lit up, where I probably would if I were running on country roads.
As for crossing roads etc. I use these things I have called senses. One of them allows me to see traffic approaching, another one lets me hear things that are going on around me. They are really amazing those senses

Same. If I ever put myself in a situation where I'm relying on a driver to see me (reflective gear or not), I've already made a huge mistake

walshb

28064212 wrote: »

Same. If I ever put myself in a situation where I'm relying on a driver to see me (reflective gear or not), I've already made a huge mistake

But with reflective gear and high viz you give everyone out there a better chance of seeing you in the dark, or at night. Be careful, aware and responsible. That's your job done. But there are other people out there. Leaving off clothes/aids that allow you to stand out more and be more visible in the dark makes the job of you being seen that bit more difficult. No point in blaming the driver or the bike or whatever if you end up badly injured. Throwing on a high viz jacket is not a chore.

crisco10

28064212 wrote: »

Same. If I ever put myself in a situation where I'm relying on a driver to see me (reflective gear or not), I've already made a huge mistake

Know what you are saying, High - vis is not an invincibility cloak! but I think sometimes people even assume that "if i can see them, they can see me" which is not true. Why not reduce that potential with more high vis?

An example might be a cyclist running a red pedestrian light? you run across on a green man, they don't see you and go thru the red....(let's not argue cyclists going through red lights!)..or even a cyclist on the footpath... Or what about motorists turning off a major road into a minor road without seeing you in the middle of crossing that minor road already? Happens a lot if the motorists is "skipping" across traffic while turning right.

HelenAnne

I try to wear a hi-viz, or a least a white, top, and I wear these:

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/brooks-running-nightlife-arm-leg-bands-reflectors-set-235207

I like them because they're not scratchy on bare arms or legs like the plastic-y ones.

I run on paths too, but along the sea front etc there are bikes etc flying along so I want to be seen. I wish dogs would wear hi-viz, and lit up extendable leads :-)

28064212

crisco10 wrote: »

Know what you are saying, High - vis is not an invincibility cloak! but I think sometimes people even assume that "if i can see them, they can see me" which is not true. Why not reduce that potential with more high vis?

An example might be a cyclist running a red pedestrian light? you run across on a green man, they don't see you and go thru the red....(let's not argue cyclists going through red lights!) Or what about motorists turning off a major road into a minor road without seeing you in the middle of crossing that minor road already? Happens a lot if the motorists is "skipping" across traffic while turning right.

I assume all lights are against me at all times, and green for all other traffic. And that all other road users are both drunk and on their phones

PaulieC

walshb wrote: »

No point in blaming the driver or the bike or whatever if you end up badly injured. Throwing on a high viz jacket is not a chore.

If you keep your wits about you then you only have yourself to blame. I would prefer to take responsibility for my own safety that to wear brightly lit/reflective clothing and then think that was me sorted for safety.
Ed Mc said that wearing these clothes allowed him to focus on his running and not whether or not he can be seen. I wouldn't leave that kind of thing to the responsibility of others.

walshb

HelenAnne wrote: »

I try to wear a hi-viz, or a least a white, top, and I wear these:

http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/brooks-running-nightlife-arm-leg-bands-reflectors-set-235207

I like them because they're not scratchy on bare arms or legs like the plastic-y ones.

I run on paths too, but along the sea front etc there are bikes etc flying along so I want to be seen. I wish dogs would wear hi-viz, and lit up extendable leads :-)

So true. Even other runners who are not lit up can be a danger. Your eyesight is only so good. You see fellow runners at night much clearer and much earlier when they are lit up and wearing high viz. Your running along at a decent speed and out of of nowhere there's a dark shadow of a fellow runner with no lighting on at all. It's asking for trouble.

crisco10

28064212 wrote: »

I assume all lights are against me at all times, and green for all other traffic. And that all other road users are both drunk and on their phones

If they are drunk and on their phones....surely high-vis would help more? :P

Is this not analogous to a driver saying that they don't turn their lights on because they are 100% confident they will see everything else?

walshb

PaulieC wrote: »

If you keep your wits about you then you only have yourself to blame..

Agreed. And leaving off high viz and visible aids is not giving yourself the best chance. So, yes, you are to blame. Wits about you goes so far. After that there is the added risk of others. Plan for this, or at least try to. That is why wearing high viz and reflective aids are used. Leaving them off IMO is not addressing that risk, and not giving yo you the best chance of being seen.

28064212

crisco10 wrote: »

If they are drunk and on their phones....surely high-vis would help more? :P

No, I assume they wouldn't see me even if I was an actual christmas tree out for a run.

crisco10 wrote: »

Is this not analogous to a driver saying that they don't turn their lights on because they are 100% confident they will see everything else?

A driver has blind-spots, a breaking distance, higher speed and a greatly reduced sense of hearing

rainbow kirby

Rarely wear specific hi-vis gear while running at night - the vast majority of my evening routes have good street lighting all the way around so there's not a lot of need for it. A lot of my long-sleeve winter tops are relatively light or bright in colour though (pale blue, bright pink etc).

crisco10

28064212 wrote: »

No, I assume they wouldn't see me even if I was an actual christmas tree out for a run.

A driver has blind-spots, a breaking distance, higher speed and a greatly reduced sense of hearing

Fair enough. for the sake of a few euro (or nothing if it's from the RSA) I'd still like to increase my chances of being seen. It's not like people in high vis are going to run blindly forwards with cricket pitch vision. And I still think that given a certain set of circumstances and a particular time, i might just miss something that I should have seen or heard and if my yellow jacket helps bail me out just that once, it's worth it.

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Better to be joked about than to be badly injured/killed from a collision because you weren't visible enough.

How many runners in, say forever, were badly injured or killed on a footpath and the lack of highviz was ruled a factor in the accident ? None I'd say.

Yes, country roads well and good, I wear them myself, usually with a head torch. But in a city on a footpath, it's pointless, IMO.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

How many runners in, say forever, were badly injured or killed on a footpath and the lack of highviz was ruled a factor in the accident ? None I'd say.

Yes, country roads well and good, I wear them myself, usually with a head torch. But in a city on a footpath, it's pointless, IMO.

I don't know the answer to that.

We can agree to disagree. I will say, the more lit up an area the better. That's obvious. The less lit up the more emphasis is placed on a person to ensure their safety. Not everyone runs in cities where street lighting is generally quite good. Many towns and communities where the street lighting is fair-poor-nonexistent!

This Fat Girl Runs

Knowing I'm visible doesn't relax my vigilance at knowing my surroundings. I spotted the other runner because I was making sure to keep my eyes peeled for anything unexpected. Even in day light and bright sunshine I can't assume other road/footpath users are paying attention or making the best decisions.

As a pedestrian and a runner, on footpaths in the city, I've had too many near misses to ever take for granted that everyone is alert! I've had many occasions where I've missed a green man to cross a street because drivers/cyclists are turning right on the red, even though I had the right of way. I've nearly been taken out by cyclists on the footpath going the wrong way on a one way street and I've had pedestrians step out or stop suddenly in front of me.

Basically, wearing high viz on a dark night/morning is my way of giving everyone else notice that I'm there, but I'm also going to stick to trying to notice everyone else.

shels4ever

walshb wrote: »

I don't think the location is the real issue. It's the visibility. Whether it's parks or paths or roads, at night and when the light is poor I think being seen is very important.

Have to agree with you there I've run in the park reciently at night and still had high vis stuff on. But I'm unfit and chances of passing out in a run are high so would help out collecting my body in any search 😄

DarByrne1980

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Knowing I'm visible doesn't relax my vigilance at knowing my surroundings. I spotted the other runner because I was making sure to keep my eyes peeled for anything unexpected. Even in day light and bright sunshine I can't assume other road/footpath users are paying attention or making the best decisions.

Just having da hi0viz gear on doesnt take much effort. so it mite not save u in an accident situation with someone not aware of their srurroundings. but u are giving urself every chance of being seen. if its dark regardless of where im running. i put on the hi-viz.

Carawaystick

All the proponents of wearing high vis on a path in a streetlit area at night know high vis works by flourescing from incident uv skylight, the kind that you get only in the daytime?

If they said retroreflectors for night time then there'd be some reason.

This Fat Girl Runs

Carawaystick wrote: »

All the proponents of wearing high vis on a path in a streetlit area at night know high vis works by flourescing from incident uv skylight, the kind that you get only in the daytime?

If they said retroreflectors for night time then there'd be some reason.

I didn't know there was a difference, but when I think 'high viz' I think of anything that makes me visible. Reflector bands, LED lights etc.

crisco10

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

I didn't know there was a difference, but when I think 'high viz' I think of anything that makes me visible. Reflector bands, LED lights etc.

Ditto, would even class lighter clothing as high-vis in a sense. To me, it's basically anything that increases your visibilty. Not particular materials that reflect etc.

sconhome

Carawaystick wrote: »

All the proponents of wearing high vis on a path in a streetlit area at night know high vis works by flourescing from incident uv skylight, the kind that you get only in the daytime?

If they said retroreflectors for night time then there'd be some reason.

This ^^ is the key point that pretty much everybody misses.

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

I didn't know there was a difference, but when I think 'high viz' I think of anything that makes me visible. Reflector bands, LED lights etc.

Your stock HIgh Viz vest is pretty much useless at night or for running. The colours are 'DayGlo' and designed for identifying you against a dull background. They do not flouresce or retroreflect at night and we are essentially colourblind at night too.

The best things to wear are outer-garments that retroreflect or have points of identity on the back and sleeves that outline you rather than make yo look like a traffic cone.

If mods don't mind I wrote about this last year explaining some of this https://amphkingwest.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/reflecting-on-run-safely/

The backs of most shoes, running tights have reflective markings, gloves, hats and jackets too. Most running Tees and tops have little reflective patches. These are shown to be more effective than a glaring bounce of light.

We are fixated though on the idea of high-vis, some understanding of how and whay it works, helps in choosing the right gear for the job.

To answer OP - I don't wear a reflective vest, I have a Saucony gillet which literally glows orange when light hits it, no-one gets dazzled and I am clearly visible at night on country roads and the like. So yes, I wear visibility gear running in dark but not how most people expect.

chinguetti

Folks, regardless of whether people walk, cycle, run out or drive into you, if you're running at night and not wearing a high vis jacket/bib or bright colours to go with it, you are taking your life in your hands needlessly without due care for yourself, don't mind anyone else.

You can get high vis bibs for free so there's no excuse. The amount of people I meet running or cycling wearing all black with no lights on them always amazes me.

Its too late to put on a hi vis if you're lying in the road after getting a belt of car.

ThisRegard

chinguetti wrote: »

Folks, regardless of whether people walk, cycle, run out or drive into you, if you're running at night and not wearing a high vis jacket/bib or bright colours to go with it, you are taking your life in your hands needlessly without due care for yourself, don't mind anyone else.

Surely the qualifier being where you actually run?

RonanP77

I do all of my running in the forest so no. Walking around the outskirts of town, yes.

Hannibal Smith

I always wear a high vis vest when running in the dark. I never assume im safe though. ..id still never run onto a road without checking etc

Its funny people mention those led arm bands...I find them so freaky when I come across them...its like a dancing light coming for you and you have to try and figure out wtf it is. The other night I came across a whole pile of lights...it looked like a ufo coming for me and I couldn't make out the outline to figure out how to get round it.

As it got closer I copped...it was a guy on a bike...leds on his head. ..his arm and on the front of the bike...a dog on a lead attached to the bike with leds on the collar. ...two kids behind him with leds on helmets arms and front of the bike. ..im not gonna lie I was a little afraid

chinguetti

ThisRegard wrote: »

Surely the qualifier being where you actually run?

For me that's a no. To me that would be something like saying that if you drive a car, you don't wear a seat belt if you're driving a car along a road that is your private road. If you go off the road, the seat belt might save you.

I know some on here will scoff at the above but its my opinion. Whether everyone else does the same is up to each person but if I'm driving a car and a runner wearing black runs out in front of me, they are not giving due care to their safety or others and in my mind is being reckless.

DarByrne1980

chinguetti wrote: »

I know some on here will scoff at the above but its my opinion. Whether everyone else does the same is up to each person but if I'm driving a car and a runner wearing black runs out in front of me, they are not giving due care to their safety or others and in my mind is being reckless.

well said chingeutti. sometimes a runner will have to step off a footpath onto a road for manys reasons. its very possible a car is passing at da same time. someting hi-viz could help prvent a very dangerous situation actually happenig. da way i look at it u get loads of hi-viz free in race goody bags. wearing one is saying ur trying to give due care to others around u as chingetti is saying.

ThisRegard

chinguetti wrote: »

For me that's a no. ........safety or others and in my mind is being reckless.

Well then surely walking to the shops, bus stop, the dogs etc at night all require the wearing of high vis ?

What makes running on the same paths fundamentally more dangerous than walking on them?

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

Well then surely walking to the shops, bus stop, the dogs etc at night all require the wearing of high vis ?

What makes running on the same paths fundamentally more dangerous than walking on them?

Running usually involves the element of more speed. Speed adds to the the equation.

Try it. Walk down any fairly busy street/path in Ireland and you may not bump into anyone. Now, run down that same street or path and you'd be lucky not hit someone. Add in darkness/lack of good daylight and people with no viz aids and it gets even more tricky.

As I said earlier, I would wear high viz at night whether walking or running on a foot path. Simple: So that I am more visible. I don't fully trust that others should be able to see me and avoid me should I not be wearing high viz at night.

Anyway, I'm shocked that there's so much debate on this. I would have thought it was bloody obvious that the simple addition of a high viz aid at night would be a no brainer. Even in areas that are somewhat lit up. Night time will always present more visual difficulties. Best to try and be as visible as you can

pistol_75

walshb wrote: »

Anyway, I'm shocked that there's so much debate on this.

Irony at its best...