Do you wear visibility gear when running in the dark?

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Try it. Walk down any fairly busy street/path in Ireland and you may not bump into anyone. Now, run down that same street or path and you'd be lucky not hit someone. Add in darkness/lack of good daylight and people with no viz aids and it gets even more tricky.

As I said earlier, I would wear high viz at night whether walking or running on a foot path. Simple: So that I am more visible. I don't fully trust that others should be able to see me and avoid me should I not be wearing high viz at night.

Anyway, I'm shocked that there's so much debate on this. I would have thought it was bloody obvious that the simple addition of a high viz aid at night would be a no brainer. Even in areas that are somewhat lit up. Night time will always present more visual difficulties. Best to try and be as visible as you can

Your analogy to walking down a busy street, and then running down it, is ridiculous.

Where are all these people that can't avoid you without the aid of a high vis, ( their effectiveness, or lack thereof, already detailed, ) ? I've managed to run around for years in parks and on footpaths without them and strangely have never had anyone crash into me.

menoscemo

Hi Viz tops are only hi Viz when there is a light shining on them.. They don't glow up in the dark.
In a dark or unlit park or street they don't make you visible at all. On Roads where cars lights are shining on you they do...

granturismo

menoscemo wrote: »

Hi Viz tops are only hi Viz when there is a light shining on them.. They don't glow up in the dark.
In a dark or unlit park or street they don't make you visible at all. On Roads where cars lights are shining on you they do...

Agreed, there used to be a guy running on a country road, whom I drove past regularly at about 6pm this time of year, so no paths, no street lights and he wore a yellow sports bib - no reflective strips on it.

Reflective strips and led lights make a huge difference to drivers on country roads.

I got a small clip on red led light in Elvery's for €4.99 - only used it once, I run approx 1k on a road in daytime before getting onto a pedestrian track but it was very foggy about 2 weeks ago, so got to use the led for one day. Night time, I run in a park so dont need it.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

I've managed to run around for years in parks and on footpaths without them and strangely have never had anyone crash into me.

Good for you.

I guess all the people (and it's almost all) up my way who wear high viz clothing at night whilst walking and running on footpaths are wasting their time then. The street lighting isn't too bad either.

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Good for you.

I guess all the people (and it's almost all) up my way who wear high viz clothing at night whilst walking and running on footpaths are wasting their time then. The street lighting isn't too bad either.

Yes, I would say it's a pointless exercise which can actually lead to a false sense of security.

People put on high vis for everything these days to the point of ridiculousness.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

Yes, I would say it's a pointless exercise which can actually lead to a false sense of security.

People put on high vis for everything these days to the point of ridiculousness.

You seem to think that these people go out thinking they're completely safe? I don't think that, but at least at night if you are that bit more visible/lit up it gives you a better chance of being seen should a situation arise.

I am not sure what is to the 'point of ridiculousness' about wearing high vis/reflectors etc at night whilst out and about. If it was sunny and daylight I could understand. I haven't ever seen that. I can only speak about my own area which is fairly lit up, in parts, and not so in other parts. Most people out at night whether walking or running use high vis clothes/aids.

kirving

Where I live is just outside a small town, about 1km or so, so I see lots of runners from the town and surrounding housing estates along the road. I do plenty of driving on country roads too. Anyone, either walking or running on the path beside the road without a reflective jacket is nigh on impossible to see at night.

Now some will say that it does't matter that I can't see them at night, since they're on the path. It absolute does matter though. A reflective jacket which I can see easily see from 100m away means that I'm not straining my eyes, or thinking about whether the movement up ahead is a dog, a child, an adult or a loose branch of a tree. Having as much clear information about your surrounding is vital. I know that whatever happens, like a car pulling out of a side road, or a truck crosses the white line on a bend, that I 100% cannot put the car on the pavement, because that means a dead pedestrian. I'd rather hit the other car and rely on the safety of my car rather than almost certainly kill someone.

As a walker or runner, I'll do whatever I can to give myself the best chance rather than rely on the driver who is passing 3ft away.

Edit: You hear the false sense of security thing with bicycle helmets, seatbelts, airbags, etc, it's nonsense.

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

I am not sure what is to the 'point of ridiculousness' about wearing high vis/reflectors etc at night whilst out and about

I didn't say that..

And the argument that wearing high vis can lead to a false sense of security is not a fallacy, it's prevalent amongst certain sections of cyclists who think that the wearing of it makes up for the lack of adequate lighting on their bikes.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

I am not sure what is to the 'point of ridiculousness' about wearing high vis/reflectors etc at night whilst out and about/quote]

I didn't say that.

Okey doke. I have yet to witness folks wearing high viz in situations that were ridiculous or unnecessary. You obviously have?

Ososlo

I never go out anymore without a little battery operated red clip on light like cyclists use. I had a near miss whilst just wearing reflective clothing so I don't think it's enough anymore. It has a flashing setting too which is great.
I wouldn't dream of going out without it now as I feel it's the best way of being visible to others.
A great xmas present for any runner btw!

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Okey doke. I have yet to witness folks wearing high viz in situations that were ridiculous or unnecessary. You obviously have?

Broad daylight, group of school kids in an indoor museum, wearing it. Why? Makes them easier to spot by the carers? All well and good until another group comes along with the same idea, then another. Its easier to keep an eye on the kids in the group wearing regular clothing.

People sitting outside a shop collecting for something or another. Just as well they have the high vis on, would have fell right over them, their table and chair otherwise.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

Broad daylight, group of school kids in an indoor museum, wearing it. Why? Makes them easier to spot by the carers? All well and good until another group comes along with the same idea, then another. Its easier to keep an eye on the kids in the group wearing regular clothing.

That sounds a bit unnecessary alright. Different thread for that. Love to hear the reasoning for it. I'm sure they have reasons.

kirving

ThisRegard wrote: »

Broad daylight, group of school kids in an indoor museum, wearing it. Why? Makes them easier to spot by the carers? All well and good until another group comes along with the same idea, then another. Its easier to keep an eye on the kids in the group wearing regular clothing.

Well at the very least, and lost kids will be in one of two groups, not off on a wander by themselves.

opus

Have one of those flashing led armband thingies that they give out at the Run in the Dark & my head torch has a flashing led on the back as well. There a very badly lit narrow road on one of my routes that I wouldn't fancy without something to alert cars to my presence especially if it's lashing rain or foggy.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

And the argument that wearing high vis can lead to a false sense of security is not a fallacy, it's prevalent amongst certain sections of cyclists who think that the wearing of it makes up for the lack of adequate lighting on their bikes.

Their bikes should be lit up when out at night.

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Their bikes should be lit up when out at night.

That's what their false sense of security is.

uvox

Use a couple of flashing armbands from the Run In the Dark folks, plus a fluorescent beanie and pink reflective bands (Breast Cancer awareness ones) on the wrists and ankles. Works for me.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

That what their false sense of security is.

They're stupid to think that.

Regarding the museum kids. I'd imagine the reasons for high vis there are slightly different than for people wearing high vis at night when running.

ThisRegard

I know, but you did ask though about where I've seen it to the point of ridiculousness.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

I know, but you did ask though about where I've seen it to the point of ridiculousness.

I have no issue with that. I was wondering what reasons there would be for schoolchildren to be wearing high vis clothing indoors at a museum. Guess I am not ready to say that it's ridiculous until I hear the reasons, if there are any.

ThisRegard

Way off topic but to try identify them as a group.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

Way off topic but to try identify them as a group.

It is off topic. So, that's there reason or so it seems. I wouldn't go so far as to call it ridiculous. If it makes the job of a teacher or carer easier and more reliable then maybe its not a bad thing.

ThisRegard

But that's the thing, you eventually reach a point of over saturation that those without them stand out more.

shergar22

ThisRegard wrote: »

But that's the thing, you eventually reach a point of over saturation that those without them stand out more.

Don't feed the Trolls!

ThisRegard

shergar22 wrote: »

Don't feed the Trolls!

Ok, you can't debate or engage with me like an adult, sure throw around insults if it makes you feel better.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

Ok, you can't debate or engage with me like an adult, sure throw around insults if it makes you feel better.

I think the poster was implying that others are trolls, and for you not to feed them. The post serves no purpose at all. I have enjoyed the civil and polite debate with yourself.

ultrapercy

I wish this thread would go for a run on unlit country roads without wearing hi vis clothing, a busy road with lots of lorries and bad bends.

ThisRegard

You're being forced to partake ?

pistol_75

shergar22 wrote: »

Don't feed the Trolls!

Which one??

pconn062

Guys stop the stupid sniping at each other, this has gotten rather silly.

ThisRegard

This has been a demonstration of some of the issues people have with this forum, and why they dropped like flies from it.

People with no interest in the topic, or have a different opinion (and I'm not including walshb on this, while we my disagree on things, he at least will debate with you) will come along, call people trolls, high 5 each other, and try derail with stupid comments about trucks or something.

pconn062

shergar22 wrote: »

Don't feed the Trolls!

Also, please don't accuse people of being trolls, again, it's pointless.

pconn062

ThisRegard wrote: »

This has been a demonstration of some of the issues people have with this forum, and why they dropped like flies from it.

People with no interest in the topic, or have a different opinion (and I'm not including walshb on this, while we my disagree on things, he at least will debate with you) will come along, call people trolls, high 5 each other, and try derail with stupid comments about trucks or something.

Lets not make a bigger deal of it than it is, it has been dealt with. Moving swiftly back to the topic at hand (should that moving involve his-vis is the question??! ).

uberalex

Does anyone have any darkness-running tips? I find it much harder. I am usually a morning runner, but after dawn. I often seem to be less sure of my footing, and more likely to get lost in darkness. I'd also appreciate advice on affordable equipment for suburban/urban environments. Would a battery-powered LED light be useful?

rainbow kirby

^ Headtorch?

granturismo

uberalex wrote: »

.. Would a battery-powered LED light be useful?

I use one of these but not for running, powerful light but expensive:
http://www.ledlenser-store.co.uk/head-torches-c71/led-lenser-h5-led-head-torch-p954

I also have a €5 headtorch from Aldi and its only useful for reading a book at night without having to turn a light on.

robinph

uberalex wrote: »

Does anyone have any darkness-running tips? I find it much harder. I am usually a morning runner, but after dawn. I often seem to be less sure of my footing, and more likely to get lost in darkness. I'd also appreciate advice on affordable equipment for suburban/urban environments. Would a battery-powered LED light be useful?

This is something that you notice when running laps of a 24 hour trail course through woodland. During the night everyone quite happily runs around not tripping over any tree roots, come daylight and people start tripping and bumping into things. Think it comes down to you don't concentrate as much on where each foot goes in daylight as you assume that the ground is where it should be, when it's dark you are never quite sure so you run more cautiously.

The Muppet

I do all my running on Footpaths/cycle tracks , I just wouldn't venture onto a road. I do wear a hi viz clothes and sometimes a flashing armband .

HelenAnne

Slightly off topic, but connected -- I am always surprised how many black running tops (t-shirts / long sleeves / jackest etc) are for sale in Irish sports shops. And races and the Irish Times running series have given out black t-shirts too. I never wear black tops -- too hot in summer, too invisible in winter.

As a connected tangent from the hi-viz discussion, does anyone else think black running tops are pointless?

RayCun

But everyone knows black is cool!

(there is a guy in our club who only ever wears black)

This Fat Girl Runs

I wear a black long sleeve top in winter, but it has reflective stripes on the sleeves and front so I feel ok with that. Plus the other lights/reflector stuff I wear make up for it.

Hannibal Smith

HelenAnne wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but connected -- I am always surprised how many black running tops (t-shirts / long sleeves / jackest etc) are for sale in Irish sports shops. And races and the Irish Times running series have given out black t-shirts too. I never wear black tops -- too hot in summer, too invisible in winter.

As a connected tangent from the hi-viz discussion, does anyone else think black running tops are pointless?

Last year I always wore black. ..not in winter. ..but in the summer...I was so paranoid about being seen running thatbi thought black would camouflage me...I probably stood out more though

Hannibal Smith

RayCun wrote: »

But everyone knows black is cool!

(there is a guy in our club who only ever wears black)

Maybe he's a ninja

rainbow kirby

HelenAnne wrote: »

As a connected tangent from the hi-viz discussion, does anyone else think black running tops are pointless?

Fine for daytime wear in spring/autumn or as a base layer in the winter, but I generally prefer brighter colours up top. My tri top is bright pink and it stands out a mile at most races...

adrian522

HelenAnne wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but connected -- I am always surprised how many black running tops (t-shirts / long sleeves / jackest etc) are for sale in Irish sports shops. And races and the Irish Times running series have given out black t-shirts too. I never wear black tops -- too hot in summer, too invisible in winter.

As a connected tangent from the hi-viz discussion, does anyone else think black running tops are pointless?

I am pretty sure the idea the black tops make you hotter in Summer is a complete myth

HelenAnne

adrian522 wrote: »

I am pretty sure the idea the black tops make you hotter in Summer is a complete myth

I think you're right -- I read that somewhere recently. But I always FEEL hotter. Not sure if it's because some of my black race t-shirts are actually made of heavier material, or if it's just all in my head.

rom

For all those that think they are safe running on path. If you are crossing any road then you are at risk. Say you are crossing a minor road at a t junction and a car comes from the major road. They will not see you and reflective gear is only good when light shines on it where it will be the last moment in that case. This is how I ended up on a bonnet one day while wearing a bib and head torch with back and front light and no iPod on.

Secondly when running your vision is impaired. Ever notice that you run past so.done and notice who they are later. Well when putting in effort you body kind of says your legs need the energy etc and your eyes need less. Its a ki d of tunnel vision. For these two reasons you should wear reflective gear and cross all roads slowly and safely. If you need to do a session then do it somewhere where there is no roads to cross or cross the roads during the warm up or cool down parts of your run. Expect that drivers can't see you.

ThisRegard

rom wrote: »

For all those that think they are safe running on path. If you are crossing any road then you are at risk. Say you are crossing a minor road at a t junction and a car comes from the major road. They will not see you and reflective gear is only good when light shines on it where it will be the last moment in that case. This is how I ended up on a bonnet one day while wearing a bib and head torch with back and front light and no iPod on.

And it's as likely to happen if you were out walking.

PaulieC

rom wrote: »

Say you are crossing a minor road at a t junction and a car comes from the major road. They will not see you and reflective gear is only good when light shines on it where it will be the last moment in that case.

Is this hypothetical car driving in the dark with no lights on ? If that's the case, high-viz or reflective material is unlikely to save you. If the car does have its lights on then all you have to do is look around, same as you always would when crossing a road.

There are studies indicating that high-viz is not actually as god as you might think when it comes to drivers seeing you. Search for "drivers don't see high-viz" and there are range of articles on the subject.

Bottom line is you have to look out for yourself and assume nobody else is.

Krusty_Clown

The other night, I found myself working late and had to stick around work for an additional hour, before I could pick my daughter up and go home. Rifling through my drawers in work, all I could find was black stuff (I pretty much always wear some form of high-viz gear and/or lights when running at night. Given the choice between not running and wearing dark gear, I took an informed risk, and ran a local well-lit loop, almost entirely on paths (three roads to cross). I came across around 15 runners on my 5 mile loop, and thought it was strange that all but two of them were wearing all black.

Moral of the story: Ninjas attract ninjas.

Other moral: runners are idiots.

Yes, I'm an idiot.