The correct way to board a bus in this situation?

Dyr

Anyone who thinks there are actually queues at bus stops in dublin probably doesn't use the bus.

When boarding the bus there are two streams...requires interaction with the driver on the left, requires no interaction with the driver on the right. Inevitably the right hand stream moves faster.

Would also not that dublins bus decisions on bus stop locations and services have made queueing impossible in most cases

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

There's a big difference - there is a single boarding point on a bus and it's a matter of having a bit of respect for one another.

Why is it so important to board a bus in the order at which you arrived at the bus stop, but arrival order means nothing on other modes of transport? The answer is it's not, the most important thing is to get the bus loaded as quickly as possible so that everyone can get to where they're going without delay.

lxflyer wrote: »

It's also in the bye-laws.

Is it actually in the bye-laws that you have to queue? Can you quote the relevant text.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Why is it so important to board a bus in the order at which you arrived at the bus stop, but arrival order means nothing on other modes of transport? The answer is it's not, the most important thing is to get the bus loaded as quickly as possible so that everyone can get to where they're going without delay.


Is it actually in the bye-laws that you have to queue? Can you quote the relevant text.

Well you can call me old fashioned, but I do believe in behaving like civilised people.

I simply do not see why people cannot queue and then board the bus in an orderly manner, rather than from a scrum.

Here is the section from the bye laws.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Boarding-and-Alighting/

10. (1) Each passenger shall queue at a bus stop in an orderly manner.

10. (2) Where an authorised person is regulating the boarding and alighting from a vehicle, each passenger shall on arrival at a bus stop take up the position at the rear of the appropriate queue, move forward in an orderly and regular manner and obey the reasonable instructions of an authorised person regulating such queue and in the absence of such authorised person obey any notices displayed at the bus stop.

hardCopy

Spook_ie wrote: »

Absolutely NOT, if there were a pre-booking option then yeah but this is a bus service and everyone is entitled to travel, even those with SW passes.
even those paying cash
As an after thought, according to your policy then SW pass holders would have priority too, after all they are already prepaid by the SW

I've never ever seen pass holders queue with cash customers, why would they? The reason cards and passes should get priority is because they don't slow things down.

Mrs OBumble

lxflyer wrote: »

We seem to have lost any form of respect for one another.

Ahh, yeah.

Hate to break this to you, but if you look at Irish history, respect for fellow human beings doesn't feature that strongly. I'm thinking industrial schools, magdeline laundries .. but there are actually lots of other things I could name right through to certain disability care homes in the current day.


Oh - and doing things 'cos the law says so, again not a big motivator for many people.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Well you can call me old fashioned, but I do believe in behaving like civilised people.

I don't disagree, but I would prioritise loading the bus over being in the "right queue".

lxflyer wrote: »

Here is the section from the bye laws.

I don't think you're interpreting that right. I think that's from days of yore when inspectors would assist in loading up Nitelinks etc.

Mint Sauce

n97 mini wrote: »

If people have a problem with lack of queues boarding buses, then trains must be a total head melter. All those people who arrived after you onto the platform boarding through multiple doors and not a queue in sight!

Maybe because they have already passed through the barriers.

LXFlyer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, yeah.

Hate to break this to you, but if you look at Irish history, respect for fellow human beings doesn't feature that strongly. I'm thinking industrial schools, magdeline laundries .. but there are actually lots of other things I could name right through to certain disability care homes in the current day.


Oh - and doing things 'cos the law says so, again not a big motivator for many people.

Sorry - but I actually can remember when people did actually have some civic pride and respect, and did queue, and didn't push one another out of the way when boarding a bus or indeed try to board it while other people were still getting off.

And it isn't that long ago.

I don't think it's too much to ask.

By the sounds of things, you don't think that it's even worth bothering about. Well I will respectfully disagree.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't disagree, but I would prioritise loading the bus over being in the "right queue".


I don't think you're interpreting that right. I think that's from days of yore when inspectors would assist in loading up Nitelinks etc.

What part of 10 (1) mentions inspectors?

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

Why is it so important to board a bus in the order at which you arrived at the bus stop, but arrival order means nothing on other modes of transport? The answer is it's not, the most important thing is to get the bus loaded as quickly as possible so that everyone can get to where they're going without delay.

Exactly and I think it shows a terrible attitude endemic in Dublin Bus.

The primary focus of most good public transport services in Europe, either /bus/tram/train, is to get people on and off speedily and get them to their destination as quickly as possible.

But instead, the priority of Dublin Bus seems to be revenue protection and the convenience of their drivers over getting their passengers to their destination as quickly and conveniently as possible.

- A fleet of primarily single door buses
- Double doors rarely used when available
- High degree of driver interaction
- Terribly slow ticket machines
- All this queueing marlarky

You can also see this reflected in the large numbers of seats on DB. Most european buses have far fewer seats and far more standing space. The idea being that the bus will get you speedily to your destination, so you shouldn't mind standing a little while. While DB thinking seems to be that the bus is going to travel very slowly, meandering through traffic and estates, with long dwell times at stops, so they better offer lots of seats as people aregonig to be sitting there for so long!!!

Frankly DB needs a good kick up the arse, it needs a complete reversal in it's policys to become a customer focused, speedy, efficient service similar to what is offered in most other European cities.

We need a service where every bus has two or three doors, that all doors are opened at EVERY stop, eliminate cash fares completely, new ticket machines that speedily handle Leap cards, either single fare or tag-on/tag-off with zero driver interaction. Then we can ignore all this misfocused nonsense about queueing.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

What part of 10 (1) mentions inspectors?

The catchall "an authorised person"

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

The catchall "an authorised person"

I'll repeat section 10 (1) for you as you don't seem to have read it correctly:

10. (1) Each passenger shall queue at a bus stop in an orderly manner.

There is no mention of any authorised person in that section.

The reference to such people is in another section.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

I'll repeat section 10 (1) for you as you clearly didn't read it:


10. (1) Each passenger shall queue at a bus stop in an orderly manner.

That's about queuing at the bus stop. That doesn't even involve a bus.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

That's about queuing at the bus stop. That doesn't even involve a bus.

Yes - which is what I believe this thread is about, and my point is people aren't even doing that!


They're standing at RTPI signs further along the street, or just hovering in general.

Peadar_85

lxflyer wrote: »

The problem is that people are NOT even queueing - in fact half the time they're not even at the bus stop but rather hanging around at the RTPI sign.

Spot on - Westmoreland St is terrible for this. There's always a decent attempt by folk to queue at the actual bus stop where people stay left then as the bus comes there's carnage as a bunch of others sprawl from the right which ends up in a scrap to sort out the two lines.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes - which is what I believe this thread is about, and my point is people aren't even doing that!


They're standing at RTPI signs further along the street, or just hovering in general.

I have only commented on how I think people should board the bus in a way which would best serve everyone.

I believe the thread is more about "the correct way to board a bus", rather than "the correct way to queue at a bus stop".

If we're going to split hairs I think the bye law needs clarification. What is an "orderly fashion"? Is it longer than this piece of string is what I want to know, and does it have to start anywhere in particular? The bye law doesn't rule out starting it at the RTPI sign.

n97 mini

Re Westmoreland St. Like a lot of people I don't follow the bye laws there at all, primarily as the bus stops (and RTPI poles) are all kerbside, which leads to two things. a) Nowhere to lean against while waiting and b) Potential over exposure to drunks/junkies/beggars etc. Like a lot of people I stand in against a shop front where I find easier on my feet and where I get less unwanted attention.

Peadar_85

Unfortunately a 'if you can't beat them, join them' mentality has formed on that stretch

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

I have only commented on how I think people should board the bus in a way which would best serve everyone.

I believe the thread is more about "the correct way to board a bus", rather than "the correct way to queue at a bus stop".

If we're going to split hairs I think the bye law needs clarification. What is an "orderly fashion"? Is it longer than this piece of string is what I want to know, and does it have to start anywhere in particular? The bye law doesn't rule out starting it at the RTPI sign.

Given that the bye law has been around for a lot longer than RTPI, I think you may be stretching things a bit.

Tickityboo

bk wrote: »

Exactly and I think it shows a terrible attitude endemic in Dublin Bus.

The primary focus of most

But instead, the priority of Dublin Bus seems to be revenue protection and the convenience of their drivers over getting their passengers to their destination as quickly and conveniently as possible.
.

Revenue protection!!!
Don't make me laugh.

n97 mini

Au contraire, I'm pointing out how unspecific the bye-law is.

ArmaniJeanss

10. (2) Where an authorised person is regulating the boarding and alighting from a vehicle, each passenger shall on arrival at a bus stop take up the position at the rear of the appropriate queue, move forward in an orderly and regular manner and obey the reasonable instructions of an authorised person regulating such queue and in the absence of such authorised person obey any notices displayed at the bus stop.

***
This could well be interpreted as an acknowledgement that there are two valid queues for each bus, leftie and rightie.

Regardless there appears nothing in the byelaws OP to suggest you did anything wrong, so carryon doing what you've been doing.

corktina

What about if the bus is nearly full? Is it fair that someone can get on ahead of a queue of people waiting for the Driver and then being left behind.

paulosam

Impossible to queue up at most busy city center stops. I use the stop on College Green outside that Ambercrombie shop daily, and its hard enough just walking on the busy, narrow path there. Bus hardly ever stops exactly at the stop anyway so queuing is pointless. People just usually huddle around the door, and when the passengers disembark the group splits between the cash paying people who go on the left and take ages to board, and LEAP users who use the validator on the right and board quickly. Don't see the problem with that at all. One small benefit for people who are bothered enough to use pre-paid tickets.

bigar

corktina wrote: »

What about if the bus is nearly full? Is it fair that someone can get on ahead of a queue of people waiting for the Driver and then being left behind.

It has nothing to do with being fair. Leap card users went through the trouble to top up to speed up boarding so should reap the rewards. I hope the ones left behind learn their lesson and start using a leap card.

cdebru

corktina wrote: »

What about if the bus is nearly full? Is it fair that someone can get on ahead of a queue of people waiting for the Driver and then being left behind.

So people who have pre paid tickets should queue behind people who haven't even bothered to sort out their change, while they root through their pockets, handbags, purses etc but only when they get to the very front of the queue, whilst complaining loudly about how long they have had to wait?

Nah if you have a prepaid ticket once the doors are opened and anyone alighting has done so board on your right, validate your ticket and grab a seat before the gob****e has sorted out their change, thats the way you do it.

JayRoc

bigar wrote: »

It has nothing to do with being fair. Leap card users went through the trouble to top up to speed up boarding so should reap the rewards. I hope the ones left behind learn their lesson and start using a leap card.

But don't the majority of leap card users still have to interact with the driver anyway? I would have thought very few of them would be using the validator (which is daft but then that's another thread altogether).

cdebru

JayRoc wrote: »

But don't the majority of leap card users still have to interact with the driver anyway? I would have thought very few of them would be using the validator (which is daft but then that's another thread altogether).

Depends on the route and where you board and how much you use the bus, if you are paying full fare no need to go near the driver, if you are using the daily or weekly cap no need to go near the driver, so most leap card customers don't interact with the driver now.

Dyr

If people actually queued at dublin bus stops you'd have overlapping lines the length of O'Connell street, westmoreland street and dame street at peak times. Which would then have break up and run as busses pulled in 20-30 foot away from the bus stop (never mind their distance from the end of this theoretical queue)

It's patently daft.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

I want to put the question forward of when they did not have low floor busses they had steps and a bar in between... i doubt people then queued up single then to be separated by this bar !