RTE Primetime - Special needs people getting tortured in a facility

Grand Moff Tarkin

You would not treat an animal the way those poor people were treated. Shocking behaviour which makes the blood boil of any decent human being.

In Lonesome Dove

I don't know anyone working in a home like that. Does anybody here know another working in such a home?

I used to know a nurse who works in a hospital and she is brilliant and lovely. Her working hours are crazy if you ask me. One week working from 8 am to 8 pm and the next week working from 8pm to am.

I work long hours like this myself - from morning til night expect for today and I find the day is just too long. And sometimes when I get time off, like at weekends, I'm still called in and required to work. Family at home is sick of me because I have sh1te and bags and dirty knickers just strewn all about the place with fcuk all time to tidy or clean.

I wonder what kind of working hours do these workers do in these homes? Would it be safe to say - would it be similar to the hours to the nurse I used to know working in a hospital.

IMO, this is where a problem lies with the working day being too long which could lead to demotivating some people to work.

Timberrrrrrrr

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

I don't know anyone working in a home like that. Does anybody here know another working in such a home?

I used to know a nurse who works in a hospital and she is brilliant and lovely. Her working hours are crazy if you ask me. One week working from 8 am to 8 pm and the next week working from 8pm to am.

I work long hours like this myself - from morning til night expect for today and I find the day is just too long. And sometimes when I get time off, like at weekends, I'm still called in and required to work. Family at home is sick of me because I have sh1te and bags and dirty knickers just strewn all about the place with fcuk all time to tidy or clean.

I wonder what kind of working hours do these workers do in these homes? Would it be safe to say - would it be similar to the hours to the nurse I used to know working in a hospital.

IMO, this is where a problem lies with the working day being too long which could lead to demotivating some people to work.

I don't give a **** how long the day is there is NO excuse for their behaviour! Did you actually watch the program and see the abuse they meted out to these defenseless women?

In Lonesome Dove

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I don't give a **** how long the day is there is NO excuse for their behaviour! Did you actually watch the program and see the abuse they meted out to these defenseless women?

That's true. It was too hard to watch so I only had one eye on the TV.

jimgoose

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

...IMO, this is where a problem lies with the working day being too long which could lead to demotivating some people to work.

If they were merely "demotivated to work" at least they presumably wouldn't be dragging small, helpless people around by the head, hopping them off the ground and deliberately distressing them. I'd like to see one of the fat ignorant bitches being sat on by the likes of John "Bull" Hayes, and see how that suited her! :mad:

phater phagan

I was appalled at the treatment of vulnerable innocent people. Truly awful behaviour - humanity at its worst. I'm also afraid that, as we have witnessed many times before, there will be a procedure of inquiry which will take years and fruitless recommendations will be made - after which this horrible episode will be forgotten until the next outrage. The managers of the government departments responsible for that place should hang their heads in shame. Will anybody lose their job for such incompetence? I doubt it.

ColeTrain

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

Family at home is sick of me because I have sh1te and bags and dirty knickers just strewn all about the place with fcuk all time to tidy or clean.

Haha, you could at least put them in the laundry basket.

SpaceTime

I'm actually contemplating emigrating after seeing that.

I just can't imagine getting old here anymore.
Too much of this culture of institutional abuse. Just no longer sure this is somewhere I want to live long term anymore.

No accountability and basically the same mentality that existed in the Magdalene asylums, the industrial schools etc etc

What's going to be done about this?
Will those people be arrested this morning ?

I highly doubt it.

Utterly sickening and reminiscent of something from Ceausescu era Romania.

It's frightening to think that this is the kind of 'care' I or a loved one might get if they became incapacitated at any stage.

I just find Ireland's officialdom is capable of feigning shock and then doing absolutely nothing to fix the situation.

Do we not know that institutional abuse is a big issue?

Did we think that the exposes were a horror movie and everything's 'grand'???

The other incredibly annoying aspect is that I'm very sure that if a nurse dragged a 75 year old around the floor in the Blackrock Clinic, the Mater Private etc the Gardai would be all over it. They'd be fired, arrested etc etc

But this is one of those places for detaining the unseen in our society. They obviously don't matter as much as 'normal people'.

That's the message the lack of action is sending.

There's ample video evidence there showing assault. Gardai : do something about it!

jimgoose

SpaceTime wrote: »

...There's ample video evidence there showing assault. Gardai : do something about it!

This, simply this. It's about time we saw these fcukers being led into a Paddywagon in handcuffs and leg-irons, U.S.-style. :mad:

SpaceTime

They'd 5 staff for 7 residents!

Also, the residents seemed extremely pleasant, just had communications difficulties.

With the right care, attention, access to games and stimulating stuff to do, those women could have been much more independent and actually lead happy lives.

Those 'carers' are behaving like 19th century prison wardens.

I just can't imagine what it would be like to spend your entire life in some hellhole like that and being unable to speak ?

It's a nightmare!

Bear in mind that probably hundreds of thousands of Irish people passed through institutions over the years.

I encountered quite a few very damaged individuals (mostly older) in Britain who were basically destroyed by Irish Magdalene asylums and industrial schools. They emigrated as screwed up, emotionally dysfunctional, badly educated (often denied access to a normal school education) individuals who ended up basically working as skivvys in England in low skill, low pay jobs.

This country has a horrendous history around institutional abuse. It has to stop!
What we saw last night is just evidence that reform hasn't really happened.

Oryx

Sitting on your ar5e drinking tea and sending texts is not hard work. Its not even remotely close to stressful hard work. Hell, working the checkouts in Dunnes for the next two weeks pre Christmas is majorly harder, but those workers cant slap their customers because 'its hard work'

The sight of that poor lady holding out her hand and pleading for some human contact, and recieving abuse, will stay with me for a long time. The only reason those women felt it was ok to behave so badly, was because they knew those they abused could not tell anyone. I dare them try that on a resident who could speak! Classic bullying of helpless victims.

SpaceTime

These were also quite old ladies, the reporter mentioned that one had arthritis.
Can you imagine someone dragging your granny around like that?!?

Not that it should happen to anyone of any age. It just adds to the brutality though.

With a bit of care and attention, those ladies could have been having a bit of fun and a really pleasant life.

gazzer

If one of those monsters did that to one of my relatives I would do time for them. Horrible disgusting swines.

SpaceTime

Message sent out loud and clear is : Ireland sees those with severe disabilities as an irritatating burden and 2nd class citizens with no rights and no voice.

The simple reality is that the state couldn't care less. If it did care, this wouldn't happen.

The other aspect is the we farm this stuff out to 90+ 'charities' (state funded outsourcers) making it even less transparent.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

You don't need "proper training" to understand that what we saw was not acceptable.

This is Ireland however, we don't do responsibility. There will be "retraining" and "procedures will be updated" and "extra monitoring will be put in place" anhd we'll "hire consultants to commission a report into the matter". Meanwhile thousands of people will complain in front of the Dail about paying for the water they use, but none of them will turn up for a protest about what we saw last night because it doesn't affect their pockets.

I was actually going to say whatever about water protests, and I do agree with them, there should be one on this also.

SpaceTime

If you're in Swinford, I think you've a duty to go in and make a formal complaint to the Gardai about this this morning.

Frigga_92

I was talking to my sister about this this morning.
My sister is a paediatric home care nurse. She looks after young children, sometimes babies, who were born with very serious health issues and need 24 hour care. She loves her job. She loves being able to help the kids, she loves being able to help the families. Sometimes having the nurse there for your sick child is the difference between having a shower and doing the shopping and not, no exaggeration.

She used to do agency work, working in facilities like the ones shown in these expose programmes, caring for people of all ages.
As she said herself about the comments that the staff were not given the proper training, nobody teaches you how to care, there is no class in college alongside your academic classes, that teaches you "how to care for your patient", not medical care but empathy, TLC, that "touch" that some nurses have, a good bedside manner, where they put you at ease and make what you're going through a bit easier, that cannot be taught to someone, that is something that you have, that is something that probably drives you towards becoming a nurse.
I know that my sister had patients that were "hard work", as some people say but they got the same care as the patients who were in full control of their faculties. When you are suffering from illnesses that affect you mentally, you're not in control of how you are acting, you don't understand why you are acting the way you are, you don't know that the way you are acting is wrong, sometimes your illness causes you to act in such a way because it is the only way you can communicate and you are frustrated that that is the only way you can communicate but unfortunately you have no other way of expressing that frustration.

Not everybody is cut out for nursing, that is the reality but unfortunately, this is very often not spotted until it's too late.

Babooshka

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

When you are suffering from illnesses that effect you mentally, you're not in control of how you are acting, you don't understand why you are acting the way you are, you don't know that the way you are acting is wrong, sometimes your illness causes you to act in a such a way because it is the only way you can communicate and you are frustrated that that is the only way you can communicate but unfortunately you have no other way of expressing that frustration.

Not everybody is cut out for nursing, that is the reality but unfortunately, this is very often not spotted until it's too late.

Exactly. I would further add to that, that they're not only not fit to nurse, they're not fit to have any responsibility for anyone vulnerable at all. Some of them surely have children, do they treat them with the same contempt if they are "bold"? Jesus.

So many others have said more than I will try to here that I agree with. I found it all stomach churning but that man sitting on that girl gave me goose bumps, what sort of so called grown man thinks it's ok to do that to a woman? And the other bitch encouraging the other residents to tell Ivy to "F*ck off" when she was just trying to sit in her chair. Sickening. I hope they feel shame and it inevitably leads to them becoming better people because right now, they're just scum bags. Hang your heads in shame you bunch of savages.

Tony EH

hmmm wrote: »

Meanwhile thousands of people will complain in front of the Dail about paying for the water they use, but none of them will turn up for a protest about what we saw last night because it doesn't affect their pockets.

Start a protest so.

Put your snide remarks with your mouth is.



I'd wager if there was a protest movement regarding this issue, you probably wouldn't bother going. So much easier to sit behind a keyboard prattling crap.

mrsbyrne

Colleagues of mine were tuning in to this last night fully expecting the abusers to be "non-nationals".
Tough ****.
Others tuned in hoping that it was some religous order.
Tough ****.
These abusers are our friends neighbours and family members. Even as I type they are making excuses, rationalising, concocting explanations, consulting legal advisors and generally painting themselves as victims.
To them, the people they torture arent even human, they show more affection and love to their family pets.
Its great, a big fat paycheck every fortnight and all i have to do is show up, clock in and flling my fat arse into a chair so i can play candy crush on my iphone. If any of the f**king retards bothers me ill give them a good slap. Sure arent i great to turn up at all, i could just as easy ring in sick.

monflat

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

I don't know anyone working in a home like that. Does anybody here know another working in such a home?

I used to know a nurse who works in a hospital and she is brilliant and lovely. Her working hours are crazy if you ask me. One week working from 8 am to 8 pm and the next week working from 8pm to am.

I work long hours like this myself - from morning til night expect for today and I find the day is just too long. And sometimes when I get time off, like at weekends, I'm still called in and required to work. Family at home is sick of me because I have sh1te and bags and dirty knickers just strewn all about the place with fcuk all time to tidy or clean.

I wonder what kind of working hours do these workers do in these homes? Would it be safe to say - would it be similar to the hours to the nurse I used to know working in a hospital.

IMO, this is where a problem lies with the working day being too long which could lead to demotivating some people to work.

Yes I do.
I work in a centre like this and have worked in similar centres for past 18 yrs

Tony EH

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

Not everybody is cut out for nursing, that is the reality but unfortunately, this is very often not spotted until it's too late.

Absolutely.

But, the bigger problem is the "race to the bottom" attitude we have to care. Far too many staff in these care homes are under trained non-professionals. Low paid agency workers that hate the job and are doing simply to make ends meet.

Also, the turn over in care homes is crazy. I know someone in one and it's very rare that a staff member stays for any length of time.

I think, in general, Ireland's attitudes to care needs a radical overhaul.

eviltwin

I work in social care as one of the foot soldiers. I don't work with people this vulnerable but all people who are clients of social care organisations are to some extent vulnerable.

There have been so many cut backs that we don't reach half the people we need to but you work with what you have and when you are with a client you give them 100% of yourself. If you have a bad day - and we all have bad days, we're only human - you remove yourself, get someone else to take over, talk to your boss, get it out of your system in a healthy way. What I saw last night wasn't a frustrated care worker taking it out on her client, I saw a sadistic group who were enjoying the power and control they had over people who couldn't fight back or speak up. Bullies is all they were and they work with the vulnerable!!

The problem with social care is that its become centered around qualifications. Too many people are being hired on the basis of their FETAC's, not enough care and attention is given to the personal qualities that make someone a good carer. Most of the women and men I work with have come through the volunteer route over the years, they started out working for free because they cared and trained on the job..now its all based around CV's, people are coming in who on paper have the right credentials but might have no compassion, empathy or understanding.

I feel quite ashamed to think the HSE that holds itself up to my organisation as something professional, something to aspire to is behind this. But I'm not surprised. And I have no confidence anything will change.

Freddie Mercurys Bolero

eviltwin wrote: »

I work in social care as one of the foot soldiers. I don't work with people this vulnerable but all people who are clients of social care organisations are to some extent vulnerable.

There have been so many cut backs that we don't reach half the people we need to but you work with what you have and when you are with a client you give them 100% of yourself. If you have a bad day - and we all have bad days, we're only human - you remove yourself, get someone else to take over, talk to your boss, get it out of your system in a healthy way. What I saw last night wasn't a frustrated care worker taking it out on her client, I saw a sadistic group who were enjoying the power and control they had over people who couldn't fight back or speak up. Bullies is all they were and they work with the vulnerable!!

The problem with social care is that its become centered around qualifications. Too many people are being hired on the basis of their FETAC's, not enough care and attention is given to the personal qualities that make someone a good carer. Most of the women and men I work with have come through the volunteer route over the years, they started out working for free because they cared and trained on the job..now its all based around CV's, people are coming in who on paper have the right credentials but might have no compassion, empathy or understanding.

I feel quite ashamed to think the HSE that holds itself up to my organisation as something professional, something to aspire to is behind this. But I'm not surprised. And I have no confidence anything will change.

I find that it's quite the opposite. I work with people with intellectual disabilities in the social care field, I have a B.A. in social care and I went through the slog of four years of college becauelse I wanted to do a job I loved. I work with people who have been working as care assistants for years, have maybe done the level 5 because they have been instructed to do so by management, but mny are unqualified. I would guess that 70% of the care workers in my service are disinterested and unmotivated in their jobs, but are there because of the increments and shift work allowance. It is very very frustrating to work with these people, and it is certainly not fair in the residents.

SpaceTime

There are cutbacks and there's lack of resources.
What I saw last night cannot be explained by that.

Lack of resources do not make you sit on a frightened, frail old lady for the laugh.

Lack of resources do not make you hit a woman with a bunch of keys.

Nor do they make you drag someone across the floor, kick someone etc etc.

Or force feed someone by putting your hand of over her eyes and pouring food down her throat.

There were 5 staff to 7 clients. I didn't get any impression they were worked off their feet. They just seemed annoyed that the clients were interfering with their tea drinking and TV watching.

Education can't reach empathy and cop on.

Good management ensure this kind of stuff doesn't happen though.

They seem to have a similar problem to Guantanamo Bay, they've dehumanised their clients.

jimgoose

SpaceTime wrote: »

...Good management ensure this kind of stuff doesn't happen though.

There is no good management in most of the public services, and in particular the HSE, by which I mean properly qualified professional managers who know how to manage and are competent to do so. What you get is various gowls who've been there too long and are eventually promoted "out-of-the-way" to management.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I agree. None of those women seemed to be working under enormous pressure. They just seemed irritated that their tea drinking and phone using was being interrupted by the needs of the people they were being paid to care for. They came across as a bunch of ignorant thugs high on a bit of power. I would love to know how they're defending their actions today.

SpaceTime

I agree, I see a lot of evidence of administration being seen as management and promotion due to time served rather than competency or qualifications.

Management roles aren't just administration and form filling.

monflat

Freddie Mercurys Bolero wrote: »

I find that it's quite the opposite. I work with people with intellectual disabilities in the social care field, I have a B.A. in social care and I went through the slog of four years of college becauelse I wanted to do a job I loved. I work with people who have been working as care assistants for years, have maybe done the level 5 because they have been instructed to do so by management, but mny are unqualified. I would guess that 70% of the care workers in my service are disinterested and unmotivated in their jobs, but are there because of the increments and shift work allowance. It is very very frustrating to work with these people, and it is certainly not fair in the residents.

I'm in the same boat as yourself.
I have never seen abuse like this but I have seen staff who come in to punch in hours etc. Great holiday pay.

It's heartbreaking to think that this abuse could be day and night relentlessly.
Why were they so restricted to be kept in their seats. Why were they not free to roam around.

Basic human rights violated.


I'm looking for a new job as I have ALWAYS ALWAYS said it's not the clients /service users who are tough work it's the staff working in these places.
Some are pure evil.

TheChizler

Smidge wrote: »

I have said MANY MANY times that there really should be more undercover done right across the HSE.
From hospitals to service to care homes.
The sad part is that I know that it never will as things are just to rotten for those of us who have seen the dark under belly in all of its shocking glory.

In fairness to the HSE they seem to be taking this seriously. I saw an internal email yesterday from upper management asking all staff to watch the programme and encouraging them to whistle-blow if they ever witnessed something similar. There was talk of the possibility of implementing an RTÉ style undercover observation process, obviously there could be legal problems if that was operating on a large scale, data protection/consent etc.

I think really though the focus shouldn't be on catching these people out (obviously that has it's place still and should be part of the process) but implementing a system where things can never get to that level of abuse should be the priority. There have been multiple studies over the years that show that when people are put in a position of power over others it's almost inevitable that that power will be abused. Power needs to be removed from the abusers if any meaningful change is going to happen, how they do that I don't know. 'Power' can be influenced by different factors; the lack of repercussions due to low chances of getting caught either because the abuse can't be reported because of fear or disability, or because of inadequate supervision; people's total dependence on the abuser to name a couple.

In reference to HIQA, they're very good for checking standards for administration, hygiene, and hospital care. Very difficult to grade behavioural and care standards of staff, as these suffer from the observer affect, once the observees know there's someone watching their behaviour changes, so either watch without them knowing, or make them think they're being watched constantly for consistency.

As an aside, the attitude of middle management to HIQA, and some lower level staff, is amazing. There seems to be a culture that is convinced that HIQA is there purely to cause trouble.

SpaceTime

My concern is that the HSE inherited a culture from a system of institutional abuse to begin with.

The history of institutions here is dire to say the least.

I think the whole thing really ought to have been decommissioned and restructured entirely. I just see a lot of protection of vested interests and no focus on the clients who are what the services exist for.

Sticking a HSE logo on St Clabbert's and giving it a lick of paint and care plan forms doesn't change the institutional culture.

You need total reform and rebuilding and to hell with the vested interests - unions, staff empires, religious institutions, charity ego empires etc etc etc

monflat

jimgoose wrote: »

There is no good management in most of the public services, and in particular the HSE, by which I mean properly qualified professional managers who know how to manage and are competent to do so. What you get is various gowls who've been there too long and are eventually promoted "out-of-the-way" to management.

Totally agree with you here.
But no one seems to get fired from hse.

Bad management = abuse of vulnerable people

eviltwin

Freddie Mercurys Bolero wrote: »

I find that it's quite the opposite. I work with people with intellectual disabilities in the social care field, I have a B.A. in social care and I went through the slog of four years of college becauelse I wanted to do a job I loved. I work with people who have been working as care assistants for years, have maybe done the level 5 because they have been instructed to do so by management, but mny are unqualified. I would guess that 70% of the care workers in my service are disinterested and unmotivated in their jobs, but are there because of the increments and shift work allowance. It is very very frustrating to work with these people, and it is certainly not fair in the residents.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to read that people coming in from college are not suitable I just personally don't think its the right way to suss out who is the best person for the job. The people I work with don't care if I have a qualification or not, they just want someone who will give them time and listen to them. People need to be properly trained but that's only a small piece of the overall package, personality is imho much more important.

SpaceTime

All I know is this HAS to change and very quickly.

Kathleen Lynch and Varadkar are both in the spotlight. They're both very well meaning people but, can they actually push serious reform?

bjork

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

But those comments were said weeks ago, before the show even aired. That article was published on the 2nd of December so the locals didn't know the extent of the abuse, just that there were accusations. I'm sure they actually believed what they said about the home at the time, but I'd say if you asked them today you'd get a completely different response.

They did, there was an investigation since 2012 in to that place. A man died there and after looking at the results of a postmortem a judge ordered and investigation in to the place. HIQA, Leo Valkar etc have known about this place for years and have been monitoring it. A different whistle blower reported it in February of this year.


This place has been well known about in certain circles. A 2006 investigation in practices is also floating around there and doesn't make great reading. 2006 the same time as the Leas Cross nursing home scandal, where lessons were learned etc.


It's bullsh1t to say nobody knew and things are just being discovered about this place now.

Freddie Mercurys Bolero

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to read that people coming in from college are not suitable I just personally don't think its the right way to suss out who is the best person for the job. The people I work with don't care if I have a qualification or not, they just want someone who will give them time and listen to them. People need to be properly trained but that's only a small piece of the overall package, personality is imho much more important.

This is true, I would hope that those who have trained and found that they do not have the personality or drive to do the job would be able to change the direction of their studies. Social care is a diverse field though, which has its advantages.and the training includes work placements so hopefully people would find that of they are not suited then they could do something else.

Also no need to apologise!!😊

Grand Moff Tarkin

SpaceTime wrote: »

All I know is this HAS to change and very quickly.

Kathleen Lynch and Varadkar are both in the spotlight. They're both very well meaning people but, can they actually push serious reform?

Lynch is a parasite and is known as the missing minister by the people of the Cork North/Central ward. She will make all the right sounds but the reality is she is marking the time till she can retire on the fat government pension.

eviltwin

Freddie Mercurys Bolero wrote: »

This is true, I would hope that those who have trained and found that they do not have the personality or drive to do the job would be able to change the direction of their studies. Social care is a diverse field though, which has its advantages.and the training includes work placements so hopefully people would find that of they are not suited then they could do something else.

Also no need to apologise!!😊

That's a very good point.

seventeen sheep

Oryx wrote: »

I couldn't do that job. I know I dont have the skills and patience required. So I don't do that job. And neither should those horrible, horrible women. Its a career that requires a certain type of person and a lot of training and understanding.

My thoughts exactly.

I've often said that, if it came down to it, I'd take on just about any job - regardless of pay - rather than being on the dole.

But that's not quite true. Working with vulnerable or sick or elderly people, any sort of social care or childcare etc ... I couldn't do it. I know I'd be entirely unsuited to the profession, so out of decency and humanity and compassion and respect, I couldn't do it. Any one of us could end up in one of those homes at any stage of our lives; would I want someone like me responsible for my care? Absolutely not. I'd hope I'd be lucky enough to end up in the care of some of the wonderful professionals I've experienced who love their jobs and are very skilled in their field of expertise.

And even having said that, if I did end up working in that sort of a role, I can't imagine treating those in my care in such a way. My heart and soul wouldn't be in the job, but I would at least treat the patients compassionately and with the care and respect I'd hope my own family members would be treated with. How could you live with yourself otherwise?

There is no excuse for what's been going on in this establishment. None.

retro:electro

Freddie Mercurys Bolero wrote: »

This is true, I would hope that those who have trained and found that they do not have the personality or drive to do the job would be able to change the direction of their studies. Social care is a diverse field though, which has its advantages.and the training includes work placements so hopefully people would find that of they are not suited then they could do something else.

Also no need to apologise!!😊

By then though they are already years into their college training with fees hanging over their heads. I don't know anyone who would decide it's not for them after spending years getting the qualifications. Training ideally should come before you take up your course in college. A years work experience should be one of the entry requirements into these courses, not just LC points.

Freddie Mercurys Bolero

I think when I go into work tonight I'll try to frighten the bejaysus out of some of the lazy gowls there and say I'll bet parents are putting hidden cameras in everyone's rooms. Might make them interact more with the residents and put their phones down for a bit

Alun

You'd be surprised at what otherwise normal, sane people can do when in a group situation where abuse is tolerated and even encouraged. Google the Stanford Prison Experiment for example. That's not condoning their behaviour in any way, just showing that given the right (wrong?) circumstances even the best of us can (but not necessarily will) act completely out of character. The students who took part in the experiment (on both sides, but especially the 'guards') I mentioned above, needed extensive counselling after their ordeal.

Frito

seventeen sheep wrote: »

And even having said that, if I did end up working in that sort of a role, I can't imagine treating those in my care in such a way. My heart and soul wouldn't be in the job, but I would at least treat the patients compassionately

I think that's the point for me, this is not particularly about whether care is a career or a vocation, it's about your humanity at a basic level. You could do a brilliant job, or you could do enough to get by, but deliberately hurting people is another issue entirely.
I'm speculating as I haven't watched the programme, but is there a culture of degrading and abusive treatment, validated by direct management, occurring in a wider management structure of complacency?

monflat

anna080 wrote: »

By then though they are already years into their college training with fees hanging over their heads. I don't know anyone who would decide it's not for them after spending years getting the qualifications. Training ideally should come before you take up your course in college. A years work experience should be one of the entry requirements into these courses, not just LC points.

Totally agree I have always said this.
I entered in late 90 s
All of our class bar one had previous experience however it is essential in this area one has experience.
They are so vulnerable they are like children in adult bodies.
They depend on staff to assist a lot of their needs.
.
I have met various types of staff over the years.
Some caring and some middle of the road.
Management have not improved this in any way.

Staff go out of their way to assist their individuals.
A lot of these people are in these places with no family contact.
Us as staff are their family.
I have spent my days off shopping for some of the residents that I can ensure they have nice clothes and things for their room.
It's impossible to get out shoppin with any of them as there's no resources to cover me while I go out with one.
It's absolutely terrible.

monflat

Listening to radio one.
Leo vardkar sayin that the unit had 470 hrs of training.

This is bull****e.
This training that hiqa require is fire safety training. Manual handling

The safe guarding vulnerable people " course " is 2.5 hrs long

No amount of training will improve this

Frito

Not forgetting food hygiene.

michael999999

Phoebas wrote: »

There would probably be grounds for sacking them on the spot, but the HSE need to follow their own normal procedures otherwise they could land themselves in trouble.
Imagine the uproar if they sacked them and were later found to have sacked them unfairly on a technicality.

The money isn't the most important thing here.

The manager that was in charge of the social care team that were meant to be looking after "Baby P" when he was murdered, was awarded a massive payout yesterday for this very reason.

The council sacked her without "due procedure" being followed. She has some cheek!

monflat

Frito wrote: »

Not forgetting food hygiene.

Oh yes
As long as they can serve out a few spuds meat and veg
They will shovel it into the residents any way they please
...

Shocking did you see the way the" carer " force fed her the drink
Bet she didn't learn that in any course

Frito

michael999999 wrote: »

The manager that was in charge of the social care team that were meant to be looking after "Baby P" when he was murdered, was awarded a massive payout yesterday for this very reason.

The council sacked her without "due procedure" being followed. She has some cheek!

Don't want to drag this off topic, but if you can, have a look at BBCs Panorama investigation aired Oct I think. Multi-agency failure and cover ups to ensure social services were scapegoated. It's very interesting.

brooke 2

Babooshka wrote: »

Exactly. I would further add to that, that they're not only not fit to nurse, they're not fit to have any responsibility for anyone vulnerable at all. Some of them surely have children, do they treat them with the same contempt if they are "bold"? Jesus.

So many others have said more than I will try to here that I agree with. I found it all stomach churning but that man sitting on that girl gave me goose bumps, what sort of so called grown man thinks it's ok to do that to a woman? And the other bitch encouraging the other residents to tell Ivy to "F*ck off" when she was just trying to sit in her chair. Sickening. I hope they feel shame and it inevitably leads to them becoming better people because right now, they're just scum bags. Hang your heads in shame you bunch of savages.

The thought that those brutes probably have children of their own occurred to me
throughout the programme. I doubt they treat them any differently from the way
they bullied the vulnerable residents of that home. They displayed little kindness or
empathy.