The court case today...

Pique

So many people defending him.
Strange...

<MOD SNIP>
And an accident is something you have no control over. This definitely does not qualify.
Nobody said he set out to kill people, so less of the strawman arguments, please.

2moreMinutes

I'm not defending him. I'm just not out for blood or an eye for an eye type revenge in the same way a lot of others itt are.

If the families of some of the victims requested that he wasn't jailed, why are so many people looking in from the outside getting their panties in such a twist about either the true character of the guy or the leniency of the sentence?

2moreMinutes

Pique wrote: »

So many people defending him.
Strange...

<MOD SNIP>
And an accident is something you have no control over. This definitely does not qualify.
Nobody said he set out to kill people, so less of the strawman arguments, please.

An accident is something that is not intentional. If something is not an accident, it is intentional. I'd try to explain it further to help you understand a little better but it's late and I need to sleep.

fryup

Pique wrote: »

If he didn't remember the crash, why did he blame the innocent woman driver? Blame the solicitor for that, I suppose?

exactly

and if he's got a brain injury surely he should be banned for life from driving..thats what i find galling

Reati

ectoraige wrote: »

Can you cite a case where somebody was imprisoned for a decade for not having aTV licence? I'd very much like to read up on it. Thanks.

It must have went above your head. I should have clearly mark out how it was meant as an exaggeration to show that the Irish justice system is a joke but now that your post has pointed out to me how some people were unable to rationalise that from my post, I'll be sure to attached the obligatory footnotes in future.

opiniated

It seems to me that the bereaved families, as well as Shaun Kellys family, are the surviving victims of this tragedy.

Accordingly, if the bereaved families do not want to see any further punishment, who am I, or any other outsider, to judge?

Note, I don't know any of the families involved personally.
I can be very sure, however, that the families involved know a lot more of the details, pain, and emotions involved than I do.
So, I believe their wishes should be respected.

I hope everyone involved finds closure and healing, and has the best Christmas possible, under the circunstances.

lulu1

Pique wrote: »

What a pile of rubbish. His parents are nice, so what? Wha has that got to do with the actions of him?

He overloaded his car (NI reg).
He drove like a nut with 8 people on board and clipped a car before crashing into another car, killing that innocent man and his 7 friends.
It has been mentioned that his friends should take some reponsibility as they got in and some of them should have not.
What tosh. They were drinking and were offered a lift. Judgement was impaired and they took the lift.
HE and only HE was responsible. He should not have allowed more than 4 people in that car.
If a passenger doesn't have a seatbelt on, stone cold sober or not, the driver is held accountable.
He was previously done for dangerous driving, so he has history of being a dangerous driver.
He was caught tearing around SINCE this 'accident' (and it was no accident, his actions directly led to the crash in which 8 people died) and gave a false name to the Gardai.
He has maintained his innocence contrary to all the evidence and eyewitnesses for 4-odd years. Not the actions of a remorseful person who killed 7 friends.

So he has to live with it. So what? He doesn't seem to have learned to control his behaviour.

He is being given a pathetic sentence which has ZERO effect on others actions. It shows that whining emotional pleading works, even at the last minute.

There are no winners, true. The families of his victims do not get to see their loved ones again.
He get's tarred rightly as a killer with very little evident remorse.
The legal system allows him to walk and not send a message.
Society get's to have him back out on the roads I drive on in the next year or so, as he won't adhere to any driving ban, I would bet good money.


So to all those who think that "ah the poor fella, let him suffer in peace, hasn't he enough to go through?" I say, "No. He should serve an appropriate sentence for the crime he has perpetrated, taking into account his obvious disregard for the law (and the memories of his friends, seeing as he denied culpability for 4 years) prior to and since the crash."

Sentence was passed by the judge who knows the ins and outs of the case. Who are we to sit on boards saying what he should have got. I pray I am never in the position to be in a court room and see my son being led away to jail.If it was your son would you come down so hard on him I dont think so

Pique

lulu1 wrote: »

Sentence was passed by the judge who knows the ins and outs of the case. Who are we to sit on boards saying what he should have got. I pray I am never in the position to be in a court room and see my son being led away to jail.If it was your son would you come down so hard on him I dont think so

More sympathy and defence for someone who killed 8 people and has shown zero remorse and will be free in a year or so.

Amazing.

If it was my son, I would do everything possible to prevent it happening to him (as any parent would), but if it did, I would be distraught. However, at 22 years of age (when it happened) he would have to atone for his own actions, regardless of my feelings on the matter, like we all would.

As for knowing the ins and outs of it, I think anyone with a passing interest in this case is well aware of all the facts. That's what makes the judgement so hard to take.

There's a lot of parochialism evident in cases like this and it appears to be present in this one also. Regardless of who he is, who his parents are or what they're like, or where he's from, what he did deserves a much more punitive sentence.

He will be culpably involved in another tragedy in the next few years, I fear.

lulu1

Pique wrote: »

More sympathy and defence for someone who killed 8 people and has shown zero remorse and will be free in a year or so.

Amazing.

If it was my son, I would do everything possible to prevent it happening to him (as any parent would), but if it did, I would be distraught. However, at 22 years of age (when it happened) he would have to atone for his own actions, regardless of my feelings on the matter, like we all would.

As for knowing the ins and outs of it, I think anyone with a passing interest in this case is well aware of all the facts. That's what makes the judgement so hard to take.

There's a lot of parochialism evident in cases like this and it appears to be present in this one also. Regardless of who he is, who his parents are or what they're like, or where he's from, what he did deserves a much more punitive sentence.

He will be culpably involved in another tragedy in the next few years, I fear.

No I wouldnt call it sympathy but with having young adults myself it must be a nightmare to go through for all involved and this also comes from someone whose own brother and his friend was killed outright by a speeding driver who never spent 1 hour in jail

opiniated

I'm sorry for your loss, Lulu1.

I also lost my nephew. Also killed by a speeding driver.

I also have young sons.

To those who, thankfully, haven't been bereaved in such circumstances, the range of emotions you go through is a lot more complex than you might think!

For me, finding peace was through forgiveness, despite the anger. (Yes, those emotions can exist side by side - like I said, the range of emotions is complex!)
Also, like Lulu1, I thought about how I would feel if my son were the driver.

It's a horrible time for everyone involved, and I don't think thoughtless or insensitive comments online are in any way helpful - quite the reverse, in fact!

Thumpette

Condolences to all here who have lost family members on the roads. I'm sure the time of year as well as cases like this are an all too painful reminder of a tragic waste of life.

I just saw a Facebook post this evening which really struck a chord with me in terms of the deep rooted cultural issue that exists in Donegal around speeding and car culture. My sister's boyfriend posted 2 photos earlier with a group of guys in their early 20s waving down cars at a bridge coming into a Donegal town to warn them about a Garda speed check. I don't think they were doing it just for people they knew or anything- purely as a 'us motorists against the guards' mentality.

My sisters boyfriend was congratulating them on their great services, the fellas doing it tagged themselves
With pride and the post got a load of thanks.

The place the speed trap was is pretty much in the town in a built up area actually where my home place is. There are a load of young kids who play on the road- including my sisters so for me anything that discourages speed on it has to be a good thing- just thought it was so Bizzare for this guy to celebrate people taking deliberate steps to sabotage someone doing their job to keep his kids safe.

Penfailed

The Prosecution Service are appealing the sentence apparently.