Who has right of way and why ?

NUTLEY BOY · 10-12-2014 12:40pm #1

Take a typical four road controlled junction with filter arrows for cars turning left. Assume that left turning traffic can enter the road immediately as distinct from going down a long filter lane with a yield sign at the end of it.

Occasionally, when turning left under the authority of the green filter arrow you may find yourself confronted with a car coming from your front right hand side on a collision course with you. This happens when the other car in question is executing a right hand turn which will bring it across your bows as you turn left.

I have seen a few near misses with this practice.

Who has right of way and why ?

Michael D Not Higgins · 10-12-2014 12:47pm

Left turning vehicle has priority because the right turning vehicle is crossing a lane of traffic and has to wait for the way to be clear before doing so.

pippip · 10-12-2014 12:47pm

Can you post a google maps link to the junction in question.

Would need to see all roadmarkings and signs on the junction.

stimpson · 10-12-2014 12:50pm

From the ROTR

A green arrow (also known as a filter light) means that you may move on in the
direction of the arrow, assuming it is safe and the way is clear, even if a red light
is also showing.

Having said that if you have a green arrow the other driver should be facing a red light. If you have an amber arrow you should give way to other traffic.

At the end of the day, I always apply the golden rule my father taught me: Always assume everyone on the road is out to kill you and act accordingly.

Raggaroo · 10-12-2014 12:51pm

Rules of the road state that you must give way to traffic coming from your right. So someone in a filter lane turning left must give way to traffic turning right into the same road.

NUTLEY BOY · 10-12-2014 1:06pm

stimpson wrote: »

From the ROTR

Having said that if you have a green arrow the other driver should be facing a red light. If you have an amber arrow you should give way to other traffic.

At the end of the day, I always apply the golden rule my father taught me: Always assume everyone on the road is out to kill you and act accordingly.

Yes, but the other driver can have a green filter arrow allowing them to turn right and they go on to execute a U-turn bringing them in to conflict with you.

BTW your father is a very wise man:D

NUTLEY BOY · 10-12-2014 1:10pm

Link www.google.ie/maps/@53.3139001,-6.2225154,3a,51.6y,182.39h,87.19t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdk5RRPlvTXOpac2tB7LUHA!2e0

You are turning left with green filter arrow. Conflict traffic comes from side where you see red bus.

stimpson · 10-12-2014 1:11pm

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Yes, but the other driver can have a green filter arrow allowing them to turn right and they go on to execute a U-turn bringing them in to conflict with you.

BTW your father is a very wise man:D

Ah, but that's not what you said. You were talking about someone turning from the same road as you. I would imagine in that case there would be a no U turn sign.

Post up the a google maps link to the junction you're talking about.

stimpson · 10-12-2014 1:12pm

Ah, but that's not what you said. You were talking about someone turning from the same road as you. I would imagine in that case there would be a no U turn sign.

Post up the a google maps link to the junction you're talking about.

stimpson · 10-12-2014 1:14pm

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Link www.google.ie/maps/@53.3139001,-6.2225154,3a,51.6y,182.39h,87.19t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdk5RRPlvTXOpac2tB7LUHA!2e0

You are turning left with green filter arrow. Conflict traffic comes from side where you see red bus.

When executing a U-turn you must give way to all other road users according to the ROTR.

Caliden · 10-12-2014 1:15pm

Looking at the lights for that junction, cars turning right don't have a filter arrow and are instead going when their light is red.

I see that mistake being made by several people who thinking that a green arrow for straight means they can turn right when the way is clear but they should only be going when they have a green arrow to go right.

Edit: I think I've got this all wrong.

newmug · 10-12-2014 1:16pm

There is no way on Earth your paths should cross in that picture. If you go left, and the red and white bus goes to his right, then you should pass each other without even coming close. The bus would have to be going the wrong way down your street to get in your way.

EDIT - just read the U-turn bit. The person doing the U-turn has to give way. Why? It says so in the ROTR

ShowMeTheCash · 10-12-2014 1:17pm

I think I understand the scenario I know of a similar junction.

The car turning right is probably stranded in the middle of the junction looking to turn right.

You are coming in the opposite direction and turning left on a filter lane.

I think regardless of the filter lane when at a junction you always have right away when turning left with oncoming traffic. (Not traffic actually coming from your right)
When turning right you are cutting across the lane of on-coming traffic so you need to give way.

h3000 · 10-12-2014 1:17pm

The traffic turning left has right of way. Traffic making a u-turn must give way to all other road users.

Edit: Snap

stimpson wrote: »

When executing a U-turn you must give way to all other road users according to the ROTR.

Kristopherus · 10-12-2014 1:23pm

The lights at that junction should operate so as to give the vehicle turning left a window where only that light is green. That would give a clear run.

ShowMeTheCash · 10-12-2014 3:04pm

Kristopherus wrote: »

The lights at that junction should operate so as to give the vehicle turning left a window where only that light is green. That would give a clear run.

This is not always the case.
You can have a filter lane with green light when traffic is coming from the right, you still need to give way to traffic from the right but can merge into the lane if lane is clear.

stimpson · 10-12-2014 3:28pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This is not always the case.
You can have a filter lane with green light when traffic is coming from the right, you still need to give way to traffic from the right but can merge into the lane if lane is clear.

In that case the arrow would be amber indicating you need to give way. If it's a green arrow you should have right of way (assuming it's safe to do so etc.)

ShowMeTheCash · 10-12-2014 3:57pm

stimpson wrote: »

In that case the arrow would be amber indicating you need to give way. If it's a green arrow you should have right of way (assuming it's safe to do so etc.)

Hmmm I travel from Donegal to Belfast a lot, so perhaps some differences between the ROI and UK roads.
I know in the UK they do not have an amber filter light color, you have a green arrow or nothing. I have actually never seen an amber filter light.

Michael D Not Higgins · 10-12-2014 4:01pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Hmmm I travel from Donegal to Belfast a lot, so perhaps some differences between the ROI and UK roads.
I know in the UK they do not have an amber filter light color, you have a green arrow or nothing. I have actually never seen an amber filter light.

http://goo.gl/maps/PDSyh
Here's an example of one.

Edit: and another
http://goo.gl/maps/895Cj
This one has the yield symbol on the road.

ShowMeTheCash · 10-12-2014 4:05pm

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

http://goo.gl/maps/PDSyh
Here's an example of one.

Well in this case as this is essenitally almost a slip road you always give way to traffic to the right.

I think the original question was if someone in the opposite direction had turned right in this case they would now be coming from the right so in that case amber or green you would need to give way to traffic coming from your right.

Michael D Not Higgins · 10-12-2014 4:06pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Well in this case as this is essenitally almost a slip road you always give way to traffic to the right.

I think the original question was if someone in the opposite direction had turned right in this case they would now be coming from the right so in that case amber or green you would need to give way to traffic coming from your right.

You're right. I don't think there are any non-slip road examples.

stimpson · 10-12-2014 4:17pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Well in this case as this is essenitally almost a slip road you always give way to traffic to the right.

I think the original question was if someone in the opposite direction had turned right in this case they would now be coming from the right so in that case amber or green you would need to give way to traffic coming from your right.

If they have a green light/arrow you will have a red light.
If you have a green arrow they will have a red light

If you have a green arrow then nobody else should have green going on to your road.

I'm pretty sure it's the same in the UK.

(I'm assuming a crossroads as per the OP)

ShowMeTheCash · 10-12-2014 4:37pm

stimpson wrote: »

If they have a green light/arrow you will have a red light.
If you have a green arrow they will have a red light

If you have a green arrow then nobody else should have green going on to your road.

I'm pretty sure it's the same in the UK.

(I'm assuming a crossroads as per the OP)

Yeah technically if the arrow is green in this case then no one should be appoaching from the right.

However in the UK I do not think they have an amber just a green filter light.

So it would be possible that a car travelling in the opposite direction has turned right, you are on the fliter lane about to turn left, if the car has already made the right turn as you approach you need to give way as you are now joining the major road (which the car is now on) from a minor junction.

Michael D Not Higgins · 10-12-2014 4:48pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Yeah technically if the arrow is green in this case then no one should be appoaching from the right.

However in the UK I do not think they have an amber just a green filter light.

So it would be possible that a car travelling in the opposite direction has turned right, you are on the fliter lane about to turn left, if the car has already made the right turn as you approach you need to give way as you are now joining the major road (which the car is now on) from a minor junction.

That's true but the OP was actually describing a case where the person turning right is doing a U-turn at the same time as the other car is turning left. It's conceivable they will move off at the same time and approach at the same time. The RotR say the U-turner should yield to all other traffic, especially since the left turning driver cannot distinguish between the cars turning left and those wishing to perform a U-turn.

ShowMeTheCash · 10-12-2014 4:59pm

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's true but the OP was actually describing a case where the person turning right is doing a U-turn at the same time as the other car is turning left. It's conceivable they will move off at the same time and approach at the same time. The RotR say the U-turner should yield to all other traffic, especially since the left turning driver cannot distinguish between the cars turning left and those wishing to perform a U-turn.

Agreed.

fuse · 10-12-2014 5:37pm

Here's an example I encounter regularly (that doesn't involve a U-turn).

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3549327,-6.2684414,3a,75y,306.92h,78.55t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOpUVm1nMvpeQ-A0GYPSJ5w!2e0!6m1!1e1

Cars turning right here get a green filter. But at the same time, cars opposite get a green filter left too. Always causes confusion, but generally the cars turning right, who are crossing the road will yield to the left turning cars.

Until this junction I always believed a green filter meant you had full right of way to go the direction its pointing.

ardmacha · 10-12-2014 5:59pm

Raggaroo wrote: »

Rules of the road state that you must give way to traffic coming from your right. So someone in a filter lane turning left must give way to traffic turning right into the same road.

Not so. Otherwise you'd always have to give way to right turning traffic and this is not the case (was there something like this in New Zealand?)

Until this junction I always believed a green filter meant you had full right of way to go the direction its pointing.

it should, it is a badly designed traffic light, contact the local authority.

Who has right of way and why ?

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