Paris and London to ban diesel and maybe even classic cars

Tzar Chasm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11280067/London-will-follow-Paris-and-ban-diesel-cars-campaigners-warn.html

heres an article which says london might do the same thing.

Mods, can we split this off into its own thread?

theres another part in one of the articles I read which says that the ban will be extended to cars over a certain age as well, that could have serious ramifications for the classic scene.

unkel

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Mods, can we split this off into its own thread?

Done! Hope you're happy with the thread title I gave it?

Tzar Chasm

Thanks.

the other article said that they were going to impose a sticker system for pollutants on cars, currently it says that diesels over 13 years old will get red flagged, but I dont think its much of a stretch to presume that they will want to impose this system on all older cars.

one way or another the plan seems to be in motion to force our 'dirty' old 'polluting' vehicles off the road, or maybe only allow us out for special occasions. Instead we will be compelled to purchase shiny new clean soulless machines for exorbitant fees.

Tzar Chasm

Capri wrote: »

From 2020 'Daysels' banned in Paris- they say 60% of French cars are daysel so there'll be a major shake up somewhere

Marlow wrote: »

A lot more than 60% are diesel. Diesel is a lot cheaper in France than petrol and no model of a car is allowed to be sold without a diesel option being available.

The PT Cruiser for example could not be sold in France until a diesel option was available.

So that's a 180 degree turn on previous policies and will definatly cause uproar and road blockades.

/M

Bigus wrote: »

Prius wins again, no messing with the japs !

Capri wrote: »

This wins in my book, big guzzler V8 in an restored motor :cool:

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/4791428803.html

Capri wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/diesel-v-petrol-cheaper-to-tax-but-dearer-to-maintain-1.2027001

Marlow wrote: »

Doesn't really apply to France though. No motor tax there, as it's financed over toll roads and fuel (and the fuel is still cheaper than here). Diesel is so much cheaper than petrol there, that the cost of maintaining your car is a complete different calculation compared to that article.

/M

Heres the rest of the relevant posts from the original thread

Elvis_Presley

I live in Paris and the air quality is sh*t.In my opinion cars have no place in a city, especially one so well served by public transport. People can say that they have the right to drive in the city, but does this right trump the health of others? I love seeing classic cars on the road, however they pollute much more than soulness new cars so therefore they don't belong in the city.And who in a city has the space to work on a classic?

Tzar Chasm

Well then why not ban ALL cars from the city?

this concept of selectively banning vehicles based on arbitrary constraints is a bit unfair.

Consider the overall carbon footprint of a shiny new car compared to a 20 year old VW golf, granted there may be slightly more particulate matter emitted from the golf, but that pales into insignificance when compared to the resoursce cost of the new car. Or is it simply that the vehicles used to mine the material for the new car, the ships that transported it, the foundrys that refined it and the factories which built it were not located in your back yard, and are therefore of no concern to you.

Is Shifting all that environmental damage elsewhere worth it for a small improvement to the lives of parisians?

Btw many people who live in cities drive classic cars, if you can park a shiny new car, you can park a classic, work gets done at a mechanics.

swarlb

You can debate all you like over the level of 'pollution' from cars, regardless of if they are classic, or new(ish) or petrol/diesel.
The reality is, the world is changing, and like it or not we are entering a similar era, as was around a hundred or more years ago, from horses, to steam, to cars, diesel or petrol.
I've been to both Paris and London, and have never felt the need to use a car, such is the public transport system.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of Dublin, or indeed any major town/city in Ireland.

Tzar Chasm

Where would most people stand on retrofitting some classics with electric drive systems?

maybe some of the lighter ones, I think the Renault 4l would be an ideal candidate, or a frogeyed sprite.....

classic stylings with ecomentalist credentials

Elvis_Presley

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Well then why not ban ALL cars from the city?

I'm very much for that. Cars don't belong in a city. An electric car share system for journeys not matching transport networks to complement public transport which is family friendly is needed (a rammed metro is not a place for young kids, old people or disabled people).

Tzar Chasm

Ok, where do you set the boundary?

if you live in the city centre
if you live on the outskirts
if you live in a suburb
if you live in a satelite town which has reasonable public transport
if you cant justify ownership of a vehicle based on some arbitrary usage conditions
if the vehicle itself dosent fulfil some conditions to qualify as acceptable

where would you draw the line?

and more importantly, in a free society, what gives you the right to decide what I can or cant own

Elvis_Presley

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Ok, where do you set the boundary?

if you live in the city centre
if you live on the outskirts
if you live in a suburb
if you live in a satelite town which has reasonable public transport
if you cant justify ownership of a vehicle based on some arbitrary usage conditions
if the vehicle itself dosent fulfil some conditions to qualify as acceptable

where would you draw the line?

and more importantly, in a free society, what gives you the right to decide what I can or cant own

I'm not saying what or can or can't own, just that you shouldn't be able to drive it in a city.What right is most important: clean air or the right to drive where you want?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

This is all bs.
Typical government lack of thinking.

Buy diesels we will incentivise it..

,,, time passes

How dare you buy diesels we'll penalize you.

Tzar Chasm

Elvis_Presley wrote: »

I'm not saying what or can or can't own, just that you shouldn't be able to drive it in a city

oh, so I can own whatever I want, I just need permission to Drive it:rolleyes:

.What right is most important: clean air or the right to drive where you want?

Sooner or later it always comes down to this sort of spurious argument, a false dilema in a desperate attempt to shift focus onto the other sides percieved evil

Tzar Chasm

[url]Http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/9997563/Convert-your-classic-car-to-battery-power.html[/url]

a triumph herald converted to electric


http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20130403-vintage-cars-electric-dreams

someone else had the same idea, 'lesser' classics ripe for conversion

Dades

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Where would most people stand on retrofitting some classics with electric drive systems?

Anyone seen Gattaca?

http://www.imcdb.org/movie_119177-Gattaca.html

I can think of worse things.

swarlb

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Ok, where do you set the boundary?

if you live in the city centre
if you live on the outskirts
if you live in a suburb
if you live in a satelite town which has reasonable public transport
if you cant justify ownership of a vehicle based on some arbitrary usage conditions
if the vehicle itself dosent fulfil some conditions to qualify as acceptable

where would you draw the line?

and more importantly, in a free society, what gives you the right to decide what I can or cant own

It also largely depends on the city (or country) you live in. Taking London as an example, a very old city dating back possibly a thousand years to when it was first settled, as transport/people's needs changed down through the years, so did the city. They honed a public transport system for a number of reasons, one possibly that not every one had private transport. How long has London had an underground railway ? Over a hundred years I'd imagine. It's possible to get off an aeroplane, walk a few hundred metres, and take public transport probably to your front door, cheaply, reasonably quickly and without fuss.
Contrast that to Dublin, where every journey is a nightmare, regardless of if it's private or public.

Tzar Chasm

Thanks, I was trying to remember where I'd seen a futuristic electric DS