Government reason for marijuana to be illegal

PLL

Revenue from Weed Tax... So I overheard from a group of stoners at a party.

I don't smoke, but I'm yet to meet a person who is truly against it, even those who don't smoke it.

It's like weed is weed, and everything else is drugs which if taken often causes judgement and is kept quiet.

It seems like many people smoke weed, even those you think would be against it.

Aspiring

PLL wrote: »

Revenue from Weed Tax... So I overheard from a group of stoners at a party.

I don't smoke, but I'm yet to meet a person who is truly against it, even those who don't smoke it.

It's like weed is weed, and everything else is drugs which if taken often causes judgement and is kept quiet.

It seems like many people smoke weed, even those you think would be against it.

The only people I have met who are against it are elderly/reasonably old and some young people who have been heavily influenced by what they were told growing up.

It boils down to a lack of education on what weed does really. I have only smoked weed once in my life, but some of the backlash I got from some friends at the time shows that some people really have no clue whatsoever. They were told by their parents weed will make you an addict who will rob your granny to get your next hit, it'll make you stupid, etc.

Nothing will change in this country regarding laws until a lot of education is provided on the effects / the US makes a big move. 2016 will be a year a lot more US states will be voting on legalising, with most of the states who will vote on it looking like they'll have a majority. That's still a far way away from full legalisation across the US. Then, and only then can I see Ireland begin to think about making a move on the topic. I'd say it'll be 10-15 years at least.

strobe

Because they believe it is politically beneficial to have that policy. They believe reversing policy on the prohibition of cannabis would cost them more votes at election time than it would gain them.

Stoners don't vote!

Little CuChulainn

It's pretty simple. When drug laws were passed, marijuana was considered by many to be as harmful as the other drugs. There hasn't been the political will or pressure to change that since ten.

phater phagan

Because it competes with other taxable mind-altering legal products, and also because we have had very conservative governments running the country.

Wez

The fact that researching this plant was also outlawed, just shows how thick and ignorant they were when banning it.

The sooner it's legal for recreational use (again) the better. I'm delighted to hear about the US and preventing federal money from being wasted on shutting down medicinal dispensaries any more, when the states are in control of it already.

We have centuries of experience with it, no known over doses ever, lack of aggression when using it etc. Much more stable than those "Spice Gold" mixes too.

The one downside seems to be, if you have an underlying mental condition such as being schizophrenic, then there's a possibility that it can trigger it. But the state wouldn't even be that honest/straight forward about it, or let us try find out more about preventing that through research.

I literally can't take anything a government says seriously, when they still parade on about the dangers of pot.

The worst thing that can happen when smoking pot is, getting caught!!

TallGlass

I dunno but most people I know not people on here who I don't no personally smoke weed all day if they are smokers. I mean they will have a joint before work, a joint on there lunch, a joint on the way home and then get pure smoked for the night and do it all again the next day. Yet they don't have an addiction or a problem.

If I was to add in alcohol to the above instead of weed and joint, I would be TOLD I have a problem and rightly so.

No idea, but maybe it is some reason why it is banned as some people lose the run of themselves on it added into the mix with people who lose the run of themselves on the drink/smokes/food and you've added another problem in there to the health service, not allowing people smoke cannabis is somewhat limiting it's reach, easiness to gain and useability, I say the market is losing out on about 30/35% of people who would be interested in smoking it but don't because there not bothered dealing with the underworld and the powers that be want to keep it that way. If the government really wanted there way they would ban drink also but can't cause it would cause uproar. So by the government not allowing the sale of the stuff there limiting the market for it from a 100% open market becomes about 65/70% limited market, reducing and future problems in that area on the health service by 30/35% that translates to money for the government.

Only reason I can see. It's as sociable drug just like a few drinks, it wouldn't bother me if it was legal leased that way it could be taxed as a lot people smoke it.

Interestingly enough, the rise of cocaine use is truly alarming to me. It's like the Snowblow times are back but this time the drug is cocaine but no one will care cause it is illegal yet just as available as the legal high drugs back a few years ago. Cocaine is around years I know and popular too, just seems it's gained more so in popularity.

nxbyveromdwjpg

The USA is continuing to make strides towards legalisation as further to all the states that have already legalised recreational use, Congress ends war on medical marijuana by pulling the federal funding to fight it.

Ireland is a backwards and slow to change country though, I mean being gay was a criminal offense here until 1993(!). I wouldn't hold my breath for any real change on any drug laws despite the better working models being rolled out elsewhere all over the world.

I'd say when the UK does it, Ireland will probably follow suit about 40-50 years later. The government will continue wasting money and effort fighting the useless and harmful fight in the meantime.

Wez

TallGlass wrote: »

Not allowing people smoke cannabis is somewhat limiting it's reach, easiness to gain and useability, I say the market is losing out on about 30/35% of people who would be interested in smoking it but don't because there not bothered dealing with the underworld and the powers that be want to keep it that way.

Over the years I have found that older people tend to stop smoking, because it's more difficult for them to get any. They tend to ask their kids to source some for them, from what I've seen. I think it's that you're more likely to be suspected of being a gaurd when you're older, and so wouldn't get as many offers.

Young people tend to have a much easier time finding it through friends etc.

I don't think this is the way it should be.. Legalise it and make it harder for young folk to get their hands on, but older and wiser folk can have free reign.

Overflow

catallus wrote: »

Because it is illegal!?

Why is breaking a speed-limit illegal? Because it just is!

Sometimes I think it would be nice to see everything as simple as this, just black and white, never question anything, but then I'd be a just be a mindless f*cking idiot.

Overflow

kjl wrote: »

you know what a circular argument is right?

The definition of stupidity ?

Bobking

Wez wrote: »

The one downside seems to be, if you have an underlying mental condition such as being schizophrenic, then there's a possibility that it can trigger it. But the state wouldn't even be that honest/straight forward about it, or let us try find out more about preventing that through research.

I'm glad someone mentioned this because it was pointed out to me that while marijuana use has grown steadily for the last 40 years, the percentage of the population with schizophrenia has stayed exactly the same. This does not imply that marijuana is not a trigger for some people, but does suggest that in the past if marijuana was not the trigger something else was. This does not imply nor exclude the possiblility that marijuana use is triggering more cases of schizophrenia.

The exact causes of schizophrenia are unknown, but research suggests that a combination of physical, genetic, psychological and environmental factors can make people more likely to develop the condition. Personally, I believe mental health education would benefit us in so many ways but that is not as easy as maintaining the current stance that marijuana is bad, and citing possible mental health issues.

Bobking

TallGlass wrote: »

If I was to add in alcohol to the above instead of weed and joint, I would be TOLD I have a problem and rightly so.

Yes, and if you told your employer or landlord that you had an alcohol problem and needed help then you would likely receive it.

Now, try telling your employer and landlord that you have a problem with marijuana and would like some help. Seriously, try telling them please. I am interested to hear about the reaction.

TallGlass wrote: »

not allowing people smoke cannabis is somewhat limiting it's reach, easiness to gain and useability, I say the market is losing out on about 30/35% of people who would be interested in smoking it but don't because there not bothered dealing with the underworld and the powers that be want to keep it that way. If the government really wanted there way they would ban drink also but can't cause it would cause uproar. So by the government not allowing the sale of the stuff there limiting the market for it from a 100% open market becomes about 65/70% limited market, reducing and future problems in that area on the health service by 30/35% that translates to money for the government.

Only reason I can see. It's as sociable drug just like a few drinks, it wouldn't bother me if it was legal leased that way it could be taxed as a lot people smoke it.

I find your 30/35% of people who might smoke marijuana if it was legal to be suspiciously made up and undeterminable so I will add that 30/35% of under 18s have tried marijuana while only 15/17.5% have tried alcohol.

These made up stats prove that I can make up numbers to support my point of view and in no way prove that legalising marijuana will keep it out of the hands we decided are not old enough to decide wheather they should consume more or less of a drug (alcohol, marijuana, cigarettes), but are just the right age to decide what career path the would like to follow.

What kind of marijuana health problems do the health service currently deal with where the saving occurs?

Does prohibiting the use of something limit the size of the illegal market?

I dont know if its true but I have heard that there were more speakeasies and illegal bars in New York during prohibition that there are today. Hardly seams likely, maybe per capita?

Fun fact, at 11 I was offered some hash years before I was ever offered alcohol.

Caliden

Interesting history on it if people go and do a bit of research.

It became illegal after Morman's got it off Mexican workers and smoked it. Higher ups in the Morman religion didn't like that as it was already against their religion to drink alcohol or other drugs (Utah is a strange place is you're ever there) so they made it illegal.

The rest of the U.S. followed suit after some campaigning by the paper industry (hemp was hurting their profits).


Decades and billions of dollars later the U.S. Government finally realise (after legalisation in some states) that they messed up big time and could be making some serious cash if they made it legal and sold it.

Private prisons in America get paid by the Government for each prisoner so they have a vested interest, as do police departments as they use it as a means of giving themselves a purpose. (i.e. more funding)


This past week there was even an article to say that legal marijuana is now being sold at a cheaper price than illegal Mexican marijuana.


I don't smoke it but research suggests it's less harmful than alcohol/smoking (not that these are good examples).

The one thing I have a problem with is that it can give people, who habitually smoke it, no ambition and make them happy with underachieving.

riclad

You don,t even need to know a drug dealer,
if you know someone who smokes it,
you can ask them get 20 euro,s worth for me.
its as easy to get as a pint of milk.
the government treated it as a class a drug ,like heroin,cocaine .
maybe they thought People who smoke hash will turn it hard core drug addicts ,
you cant smoke it on a normal basis without turning into a maniac.
AT one time buying condoms was illegal in ireland.
ITS being made illegal in the us cos people realise its not a hard drug,
1000,s of normal people use it .
IF IT was legal ,they could tax it,
and stop providing income for criminal gangs .
i don,t use it, but i think it should be legal to buy for someone over 18 .
most people that want it can get it anyway.

The gardai have their hands full with stopping heroin dealers etc,
i don,t think they arrest someone if they have just a few joints on them ,
theres a lot more people harmed by drunk driving , than using hash.

harry Bailey esq

nm wrote: »

and marijuana was never legal so is illegal.

I might be wrong but im pretty sure it only became a controlled substance in 1967

TheOtherBloke

Some have told me the efforts to legalise dope hasnt been made because the government wouldnt be able to tax it because its a natural substance (grows out of the ground). If that was the case they couldn't tax tobacco or even apples and so on... right?

tayto lover

hfallada wrote: »

There is vested interests. Legal firms get money from legal advice. Garda have jobs "fighting it". The drinks industry will have reduced sales if its legalized. But importantly it's political suicide. A lot of older people in Ireland are pioneers. The thought of alcohol is dreadful to them. But a harmful drug like weed is shocking to them.

One of the reasons seems to be the effects on workers if used non-recreationally.
It distorts distances and judgement according to reports so people would have to be tested in certain jobs on a regular basis which would cost money. That would cost and if not done then there might be many insurance claims if it had widespread use in the workplace.

https://uodos.uoregon.edu/Programs/SubstanceAbusePreventionandStudentSuccess/Marijuana.aspx

I have heard that the army are doing that already ??

I would be in favour of allowing it's use for a trial period as other countries are doing. The drug itself has never killed anyone directly afaik.

Wabbit Ears

I smoked grass and hash for over 20 years habitually, I mean every single day

weed isn't tobacco, tobacco isn't alcohol.


They're all bad for you, but in very different ways.

Hash and MJ, they steal time. You can goto work but all the time between that, poof, gone.


I have no ability to memorise things now and Ive been off it for best part of a decade, that wasn't done by the spliffs, that was atrophy from my brain shutting down every free minute of the day. I can probably condense everything I really remember for twenty years into less than a fortnight.

When your stoned, you're a fcuking idiot. Useless, lazy, chilled, call it what you like, you're a fcuking vegetable.

So yea, go on, legalise Marijuana. Its perfectly harmless.

mikom

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

I smoked grass and hash for over 20 years habitually, I mean every single day

weed isn't tobacco, tobacco isn't alcohol.


They're all bad for you, but in very different ways.

Hash and MJ, they steal time. You can goto work but all the time between that, poof, gone.


I have no ability to memorise things now and Ive been off it for best part of a decade, that wasn't done by the spliffs, that was atrophy from my brain shutting down every free minute of the day. I can probably condense everything I really remember for twenty years into less than a fortnight.

When your stoned, you're a fcuking idiot. Useless, lazy, chilled, call it what you like, you're a fcuking vegetable.

So yea, go on, legalise Marijuana. Its perfectly harmless.

I had a cousin that spoke about alcohol like that.
Funnily enough I can have two pints and leave it at that.

rubadub

Valetta wrote: »

They never legalised fags or booze.

They were never illegal.

You don't seem to get that.

Valetta wrote: »

They didn't "make it illegal".

It was never legal.

That is some fucked up contradictory logic right there. Cannabis was legal before it was illegal, that's how it fucking works.

Cocaine was meant to be freely available in pharmacies here before it was made illegal.

MadsL

Anyone remember the referendum to criminalise it?

Thought not.

Little CuChulainn

mikom wrote: »

I had a cousin that spoke about alcohol like that.
Funnily enough I can have two pints and leave it at that.

So you think alcohol should be illegal? Because that's all that argument proves.

strobe

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So you think alcohol should be illegal? Because that's all that argument proves.

*Whoosh*

Bobking

strobe wrote: »

*Whoosh*

Quite.

It appears to me he might be raising a different question.
Do we want to regulate anything which can be abused or do we leave it to the individual to decide?

So far the evidence shows marijuana prohibition has enabled a deregulated market with violent power struggles.
Same for alcohol when America tried prohibition. They were quick enough to change their minds then because civil disobedience demonstrated public opinion.

SherlockWatson

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So you think alcohol should be illegal? Because that's all that argument proves.

Everything in moderation is what it proves.


If you smoke it every day all day for 20 years, don't turn around and blame the drug, blame the ****ing idiot who abused it and himself.

Sofiztikated

I must ask me ma if she remembers it being made illegal, if it was in the 70's.

It's currently still illegal because, honestly, none of our politicians would have the stones to back it. But if people actually started pressing their TD's and what not, you'd soon see a shift in their position. But we have too many "old" people in this country, and they're the ones that do the voting.

Legalise it, regulate it, tax it, and turn it into a fucking business opportunity. Farms, transport, utilities, research, medicine, cafes, culinary, shops, accessories, fucking tourism. ALL areas in which we are already familiar with, but could have a new direction in which an enterprising mind could start a business. Look at Colorado. Similar in population to this little island. It was predicted that the skull cracking and feasting on goo inside would start weeks after the first recreational store opened almost a year ago. Do you know what they've seen? A massive increase in tax take, savings on expediture on police, savings on court expenditure and time, and an increase in jobs. Wooo, scary stuff indeed.

Would I smoke it if it were legal, and available to buy in a shop. Yes. Hell, I'd happily pay a slight premium if it meant having a consistant, regular, not sketchy, place to purchase from, where I can pick and choose from strains to suit my mood.

Is it the wonder drug that some of the pro cannabis side declares it to be? Christ no. Do some people smoke all day, and spend their day masterbating and watching Jeremy Kyle? Yes. But do ye know something? It's quite possible those people would do that anyway. But it's also possible for people to go to work, spend 8, 10, 12, 16 hours saving the world (or selling furniture, or balancing books or what the fuck ever), come home, play with the kids, feed the family, put them to bed, and sit down with a mug of tea and a phat spliff, watch Dara O'Briain latest DVD, and go to bed.

How many people are going to end up doing serious damage to themselves this weekend, because the 12 Pubs is on? Fighting, drink driving, falling over, liver damage, kidney damage, the list rolls on and on. Me? I might endanger a big bag of doritos.

And the "I don't do drugs" crowd annoy the **** out of me too, while they sink back 30 Jaegerbombs, pull their way through 40 Marlboro Gold (previously Lights), swallow a packet of Panadol to cure the hangover, and so on.

Little CuChulainn

strobe wrote: »

*Whoosh*

Replied to wrong comment.

lanos

my theory is that smoking cannabis produces moments of clarity.
conservative governements want you to beaver away fulfilling your role in society with saturday and sunday off plus bank holidays and 20 days per year.
thats your lot
you are a slave
smoking pot may cause you to challenge this view of the world and that is bad
very bad

Aspiring

lanos wrote: »

my theory is that smoking cannabis produces moments of clarity.
conservative governements want you to beaver away fulfilling your role in society with saturday and sunday off plus bank holidays and 20 days per year.
thats your lot
you are a slave
smoking pot may cause you to challenge this view of the world and that is bad
very bad

That's kind of heading into tinfoil hat territory, where we really don't need to go on this issue. The one 'conspiracy' which is most plausible is probably the one about big pharma here preventing it from being legalised. This actually happens, as seen in DC in the states at the moment with that Congressman who effectively blocked recreational for DC. He was funded by a pharma company who's main product is for patients going through chemotherapy to deal with nausea, appetite, etc. Sound familiar? An article on this from a site which doesn't seem too biased

But the biggest issue here I think at the moment is ignorance. Too many "drugs are bad mmkay" attitudes around the country, and in government. Especially those who are older in government, I can't see them suddenly jumping on the legalisation train. Too many years of propaganda and poor education on the topic.

Saipanne

MadsL wrote: »

Anyone remember the referendum to criminalise it?

Thought not.

If we had a referendum on every single decision to be made by government, we wouldn't need a government. But I wouldn't be a fan of weekly referenda, would you?

Saipanne

lanos wrote: »

my theory is that smoking cannabis produces moments of clarity.
conservative governements want you to beaver away fulfilling your role in society with saturday and sunday off plus bank holidays and 20 days per year.
thats your lot
you are a slave
smoking pot may cause you to challenge this view of the world and that is bad
very bad

Smoking weed makes me lethargic and apathetic. A far cry from your theory.


Family guy said it best. Weed makes it ok to do nothing.

Mesrine65

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It's currently still illegal because, honestly, none of our politicians would have the stones to back it.

This...politicians would lose votes if they even suggested decriminalisation never mind legalisation, therefore negating their cushty little pension & nest egg plan.

Crappyghost

Because Ireland is still largely populated by older close minded folk and sh1tty church influence is still frustratingly high!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Any moments of clarity I've had while stoned have tended to prove less than compelling while sober ('holy **** the sea is cool/what if i put the biscuits IN the sandwich/independence day is actually a misunderstood masterpiece'). Sure it's got a countercultural history but the smoking of weed or the 'epiphanies' it induces are hardly a radical act of ideological resistance these days, painting it like that just feeds the space stoner stereotype. It's a relatively harmless recreational activity that hundreds of thousands of nine-to-five pen pushers, doctors, law enforcers, educators and other people who are like totally square dude indulge in. And the law as it stands here and elsewhere makes criminals of these people solely on the basis of this harmless recreation.

bjork

Some people thought opiate users would take up cannabis if their supplies were cut off. 'Drugs' were seen as filthy foreign stuff which should be suppressed for the foreigners' own good. Fear and contempt of 'coloureds', and of sex, was the visible motive in a few 1920's newspaper drug scandals about foreigners with cocaine or opium, and the English girls they allegedly corrupted and destroyed, but cannabis was rarely accused.


Cannabis was added to the agenda of the 1925 Convention on Narcotics Control because Egypt and Turkey proposed it. Both countries had histories of prohibition based on interpretations of Islamic law; newly secular, they were trying to be 'modern'. The Egyptian delegate denounced 'Hashism' which he said caused from 30-60 per cent of the insanity in his country

http://www.idmu.co.uk/historical.htm


Fairly sound scientific reasoning^^