Real Madrid - 20 straight wins, Ancelotti the greatest manager of the modern era?

grenache

Quazzie wrote: »

Is 35 years ago classed as modern?

Of course.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Still clear at the top by four points so nothing to panic about.

A point behind now...Madrid are probably mental enough if they win on Sunday that he'll get a contract extension because they're top and then sack him in the Summer...

LuckyLloyd

dfx- wrote: »

A point behind now...Madrid are probably mental enough if they win on Sunday that he'll get a contract extension because they're top and then sack him in the Summer...

A whole point behind...panic!! :eek:

Though yeah, if he doesn't win the league he will be sacked. It's stuff like that which makes Real Madrid the greatest club in the world.

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A whole point behind...panic!! :eek:

Though yeah, if he doesn't win the league he will be sacked. It's stuff like that which makes Real Madrid the greatest club in the world.

Really? You don't honestly believe that do you? Sack a CL wining manager because he came 2nd in the league.

NIMAN

rob316 wrote: »

Really? You don't honestly believe that do you? Sack a CL wining manager because he came 2nd in the league.

IS this tongue in cheek Rob?

They have form.

rob316

NIMAN wrote: »

IS this tongue in cheek Rob?

They have form.

I was pointing to LL comment that sacking a manager because they don't win the league makes them the best club in the world.

I'm well aware they have form.

LuckyLloyd

rob316 wrote: »

I was pointing to LL comment that sacking a manager because they don't win the league makes them the best club in the world.

I'm well aware they have form.

Yes, their standards are simply higher than anyone elses. That's why the pressure to win there is unrivalled; that's why they pursue things like the Galacticos policy or signings like Ronaldo and Bale. They are a crazy dream club where anything goes, and where there is a belief that they can have anything they want. The biggest circus in town and have been for a very long time.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A whole point behind...panic!! :eek:

Though yeah, if he doesn't win the league he will be sacked. It's stuff like that which makes Real Madrid the greatest club in the world.

Nothing much has changed though in their slide since the turn of the year except the position in the league. They've continued on with their slide...

Perhaps if they panicked earlier, they would have their lead still...

Gbear

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, their standards are simply higher than anyone elses. That's why the pressure to win there is unrivalled; that's why they pursue things like the Galacticos policy or signings like Ronaldo and Bale. They are a crazy dream club where anything goes, and where there is a belief that they can have anything they want. The biggest circus in town and have been for a very long time.

That's not having high standards.

That's being bad at running a football club.

They've had the best team in the world over the past 30 years and their return from that investment that built those series of teams is awful.

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, their standards are simply higher than anyone elses. That's why the pressure to win there is unrivalled; that's why they pursue things like the Galacticos policy or signings like Ronaldo and Bale. They are a crazy dream club where anything goes, and where there is a belief that they can have anything they want. The biggest circus in town and have been for a very long time.

Ya circus.

Constant change does not guarantee long term success it has been proven time and time again.

For the money Real have spent in the last 10 years there return has been very poor especially on the European stage. Barcelona a club with a home grown identity has been far more successful in that time.

Madrid are a commercial machine not a football club, that's secondary.

I'd have more respect for a club like Manchester United (in the past) than Real Madrid.

Not to mention they are bankrolled by the Spanish Government and Banks and have operated for years ridden with debt.

RedemptionZ

Real Madrid have won ONE champions league title 12 years. How could that possibly be considered great? Porto have won just as many in those 12 years, spending a hell of a lot less. So have Liverpool.

LuckyLloyd

I'm not saying you should respect them / like them or that their approach is rational / optimal. But they are the biggest game in town inspite of it all.

NIMAN

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Real Madrid have won ONE champions league title 12 years. How could that possibly be considered great? Porto have won just as many in those 12 years, spending a hell of a lot less. So have Liverpool.

1 in 12yrs but also 4 in 17yrs is another stat.

The nature of the CL makes it difficult to win, no matter how good a team you are.

MR NINE

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not saying you should respect them / like them or that their approach is rational / optimal. But they are the biggest game in town inspite of it all.

Theyre really not. They make the biggest signings and the most high profile managerial appointments. If that is what you mean by "biggest game in town" then fair enough. But in terms of winning stuff and being the best team, barcelona have blown real out of the water and even the likes of bayern chelsea and man utd have outdone them over the past ten years.

NIMAN

Why go back 10yrs. Why use that as a measure?

Why not use 5, 15, 50?

Its hard to say how you measure how big a club is these days. Often the accountants tell us who the biggest is, based on their revenue. In that respect Madrid have been top for quite a few years.

Who has the ability to attract the biggest stars, irrespective of how successful the team is currently performing? Probably Madrid lead the way again there.

Who are the most famous?
Who pays biggest wages?
Who has most season ticket holders?
Who charges the most for the ability to advertise on their shirts?

Its all relative. Barca of course have been in a purple patch in the last decade, but every team has low periods, and it happens to them all. Ajax, Liverpool, Inter, Milan, Benfica. Barca will have bad periods again. That one thing is certain. Madrid have had a bad period for the last decade if you count their inability to win the CL. Perhaps Man Utd are about to enter a lean period? Who knows.

Turtwig

David Moyes has a better record in 2015 than Ancellotti does.

eagle eye

Turtwig wrote: »

David Moyes has a better record in 2015 than Ancellotti does.

It's March ffs, what is the point of this post? Arsene Wenger has a better record too I'd imagine and Luis Enrique. None of those mentioned in my post has won multiple Champion's league titles, not even one between them. Come back with your stats at the end of the year.

LuckyLloyd

MR NINE wrote: »

Theyre really not. They make the biggest signings and the most high profile managerial appointments. If that is what you mean by "biggest game in town" then fair enough. But in terms of winning stuff and being the best team, barcelona have blown real out of the water and even the likes of bayern chelsea and man utd have outdone them over the past ten years.

Because they are the biggest club and always remain so inspite of short term on field success. We are talking about the current CL champions too!

dfx-

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Real Madrid have won ONE champions league title 12 years. How could that possibly be considered great? Porto have won just as many in those 12 years, spending a hell of a lot less. So have Liverpool.

they would have about 10 league titles and more Copa del Reys though except for Guardiolaball

gosplan

The just have weird populist priorities.

They let Makelele go from the Galacticos and it massively hurt them. But they just don't appreciate a simple effective player.

Same with signing loads if attacking talent but letting Alonso go. Though he's a bit old anyway.

I guess my point is that winning trophies is not everything at Madrid and plently of good and bad decisions are made there due to ideas that go beyond sheer effectiveness in matches.

I think it's why they didn't like Jose too.

RedemptionZ

dfx- wrote: »

they would have about 10 league titles and more Copa del Reys though except for Guardiolaball

Barca are pretty much always gonna be there thereabouts with them to be fair. Pep isn't there now and Madrid aren't exactly running away with the title.

Madrid at times genuinely seem like they're run by someone who is playing a FIFA career mode.

Godot.

His domestic record is woeful considering the clubs he has managed. 3 league titles in 20 years of management and one of those it would have been harder to fail (PSG)

UrbanFret

I rest my case!;)

Fudge You

Football fans have the worst memories.

super_furry

If Man City snap up him this summer, he'll win the Champions League with them within four seasons.

adox

super_furry wrote: »

If Man City snap up him this summer, he'll win the Champions League with them within four seasons.

Would he get four seasons?

super_furry

I think so. He'd be going in basically with the brief to put together a new team really and clearing out a lot of dead wood. If he can show progress year-on-year in Europe, he'll get time.

cj maxx

super_furry wrote: »

I think so. He'd be going in basically with the brief to put together a new team really and clearing out a lot of dead wood. If he can show progress year-on-year in Europe, he'll get time.

Was that the same plan as chelsea had ?

Shanotheslayer

adox wrote: »

Would he get four seasons?

Winter/Autumn/Spring/Summer that's about it :pac:

RedemptionZ

Love to see him back in the prem and get some of the English clubs back competing in Europe, but he'd have to win the league probably 2 out of 3 seasons to have a chance at having four years. Unless City decide to look longterm, which I doubt they will.

GavRedKing

super_furry wrote: »

If Man City snap up him this summer, he'll win the Champions League with them within four seasons.

Said it in the Liverpool thread but if Ancelotti comes to the EPL theres no guarantee he'll win the league, even with City.

His domestic record is pretty poor for the teams hes managed through the years, Europe is where he really performs.

If he rocked up at City theyed be expecting more from him, than a 4 year plan. City are also in much worse shape now than Milan and Real were when they won the UCL.

City wont win the UCL with this current squad, even if Carlo did take them over next year, IMO, they need some big investments, namely on the flanks and CM and a back up to Aguero incase he gets injured or worse case scenario, leaves.

Mushy

And sacked!

Hank Scorpio

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32877349

Ruthless bunch of Mercenaries

Won the double with Chelsea, gets sacked the following season. Win's the UCL last year, semi's this year and sacked after finishing 2 points behind Barcelona

Deserves better

brevity

https://twitter.com/Squawka/status/602903535186006016

Madrid is on another planet when it comes to their treatment of managers.

rob316

You have to win the league or CL every year at Madrid to retain that job. Circus of a club.

Oat23

The coach they deserve.

Headshot

I really hate R. Madrid with a passion. How can they sack a great manager that brought them the 10th CL trophy is beyond me. Horrible fans too. Infact one of the worse fans in football

I dont really understand how players want to go their tbh.

Turtwig

Who on earth can they replace him with that wouldn't be a step backwards?

Lol at Madrid

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

I really hate R. Madrid with a passion. How can they sack a great manager that brought them the 10th CL trophy is beyond me. Horrible fans too. Infact one of the worse fans in football

I dont really understand how players want to go their tbh.

They are the biggest draw for a huge amount of European players. Biggest club really with the history they have.

They are a joke though the way they treat managers etc

Headshot

rarnes1 wrote: »

They are the biggest draw for a huge amount of European players. Biggest club really with the history they have.

They are a joke though the way they treat managers etc

They sack great managers and their fans actually boo their own players. Its quite rotten club

dfx-

From a Barcelona point of view, fantastic news.

Madrid, Munich is another example where success is not enough.

Richard Hillman

I wanted Ancelotti to stay but his removal is justifiable. Unlike wannabe Super-Clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool, failure at Real Madrid is not tolerated. Standards are always as close to perfect as humanly possible. If Anchelotti gets away with failure, what does that say about the club? What does that say to future players and managers? What does that say to the children on the underage teams? What does that say to the members of the club? Its OK to lose

Without these standards, Real Madrid wouldn't have become the greatest club of all time. The only way they can keep on being the greatest club of all time is by maintaining these standards.

The fans are also invested with maintaining these standards. Without fans demanding success at every turn, you just end up being Liverpool or Arsenal. Fine clubs, but not very successful of recent years. Maybe if they demanded more from their managers, they wouldn't be a combined 36 years without a title.

Gringo180

Circus of a club.

keeponhurling

maybe harsh because he came pretty close to winning the league or European cup or both.

But what a panel he has, a who's who of works stars
Kroos, Ronaldo, James, Bale, Modric

Maybe runner up isn't good enough

PhlegmyMoses

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I wanted Ancelotti to stay but his removal is justifiable. Unlike wannabe Super-Clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool, failure at Real Madrid is not tolerated. Standards are always as close to perfect as humanly possible. If Anchelotti gets away with failure, what does that say about the club? What does that say to future players and managers? What does that say to the children on the underage teams? What does that say to the members of the club? Its OK to lose

Without these standards, Real Madrid wouldn't have become the greatest club of all time. The only way they can keep on being the greatest club of all time is by maintaining these standards.

The fans are also invested with maintaining these standards. Without fans demanding success at every turn, you just end up being Liverpool or Arsenal. Fine clubs, but not very successful of recent years. Maybe if they demanded more from their managers, they wouldn't be a combined 36 years without a title.

Real Madrid's trophy record in the last 20 for the money they have spent Is appalling. If that is perfection then I don't want my club to be that perfect

Turtwig

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I wanted Ancelotti to stay but his removal is justifiable. Unlike wannabe Super-Clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool, failure at Real Madrid is not tolerated. Standards are always as close to perfect as humanly possible. If Anchelotti gets away with failure, what does that say about the club? What does that say to future players and managers? What does that say to the children on the underage teams? What does that say to the members of the club? Its OK to lose

Without these standards, Real Madrid wouldn't have become the greatest club of all time. The only way they can keep on being the greatest club of all time is by maintaining these standards.

The fans are also invested with maintaining these standards. Without fans demanding success at every turn, you just end up being Liverpool or Arsenal. Fine clubs, but not very successful of recent years. Maybe if they demanded more from their managers, they wouldn't be a combined 36 years without a title.

Jose Mourinho won practically nothing during his tenure at Madrid. All he did was sow divisions in the Spanish team and give us really bad blooded Classico affairs. Yet, Madrid stuck with him.

In the past decade. Madrid have won almost nothing. Carlo gave them their greatest trophy win in a long while. He had the team playing scintillating football that the Madridtas demanded. They were the best team in the world, with Modric, they arguably still are. Carlo managed to find balances to teams where no manager would have with the signings made by Perez. Sacking him was the stupidest decision a club could ever make. Sport, is such that you're going to lose more than you win. There's not many better than Carlo, he can massage egos, get the best out of pretty much any player and is very tactically astute. Every manager seems like a big step down. One thing's for sure all the other big clubs in Spain will be celebrating this sacking. Barcelona's and A Madrid's life just got a whole lot easier.

GavRedKing

You win something at Madrid, you might keep your job.

You win nothing and you'll be sacked.

For all the bad press the new mega clubs like City, Chelsea, PSG get, Real are far worse IMO, from the board right down to the fans, if you havent won everything youre in, its not enough at Real.

Arguably had Carlo gone out in the UCL semi final last year he wouldnt have got a 2nd year, thats how Real work.

Its stupid but its how they operate. Theres not exactly a long list of candidates available either so will be interesting to see whos next up to the merry go round.

Paully D

Rafa the clear favourite to come in now. I like him, but getting Rafa in to replace Ancelotti is like swapping Beyonce for Susan Boyle.

GLaDOS

Paully D wrote: »

Rafa the clear favourite to come in now. I like him, but getting Rafa in to replace Ancelotti is like swapping Beyonce for Susan Boyle.

Appointing Rafa would baffle me. I have great respect for the man, really do rate him as a manager, but he tends to be quite conservative and that's the opposite of what Madrid want in a manager. Even if he wins the treble he'd probably be out on his ear after a season.