Real Madrid - 20 straight wins, Ancelotti the greatest manager of the modern era?

brianregan09

Decisions like this always confused the **** out of me ! Why are they bringing in Benitez of all the people

Reminds me of Chelsea bringing in Avram Grant to replace Mourinho the `1st time he ****ed off nuts!

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

I really hate R. Madrid with a passion. How can they sack a great manager that brought them the 10th CL trophy is beyond me. Horrible fans too. Infact one of the worse fans in football

I dont really understand how players want to go their tbh.

This seems like bitter.

Real are a bigger club than my club than your club and have a higher standard to achieve. That is all - the expectation at the biggest is to be the best. This is how they have so many trophys. By not settling for second or third or something worse. They have a greater target and the manager will know when he is getting the job what he has to achieve.

Carlo failed to do his job which he knew was to win, so now he is sacked.

Not G.R

Big Sam is available. Always said he could manage them to trophies with ease :pac:

LuckyLloyd

brianregan09 wrote: »

Decisions like this always confused the **** out of me ! Why are they bringing in Benitez of all the people

Reminds me of Chelsea bringing in Avram Grant to replace Mourinho the `1st time he ****ed off nuts!

I'd imagine it's because:

- he's a former employee within their reserve / youth system;
- he's won La Liga a couple of times;
- he's won a couple of European trophies;
- he's available;

something like that anyway.

eagle eye

Rafa makes sense because he came up through the ranks there and knows the inner workings of the club.

Corholio

Benitez would be a strange appointment, not because of his quality because I actually think he's a great coach, but his style of play would not adhere to Real at all. Saying that though if it improves the defence, which needs overhauling than it may possibly work but from a Real board point of view I don't know why they would do it. I don't know if Rafa would surrender control of things like signings etc either.

Shame for Ancelotti really, at times he was really trying to fit in the over his head big money signings the best he could and Modric's injury was a disaster for the team. The only thing I'm surprised about with him is he never quite managed to sort out the defence. Another manager caught in the ridiculous revolving door of the Bernabeu .

brianregan09

I know all that it just seems Real would court a bigger name !

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'd imagine it's because:

- he's a former employee within their reserve / youth system;
- he's won La Liga a couple of times;
- he's won a couple of European trophies;
- he's available;

something like that anyway.

Far more impressive haul than Klopp but he's not as fun..

LuckyLloyd

brianregan09 wrote: »

I know all that it just seems Real would court a bigger name !

Like who? If they've decided no to Klopp for whatever reason then I don't know of anyone available in the tier above Benitez (not a whole heap of names in that tier anyway).

rob316

They didn't take to Mourinho's style of football, I cant see them taking to Rafa's. I feel his style will be too conservative in the league to go up against the free scoring Barcelona.

If you want to win cups though, there isn't much better than him.

Tomagotchye

You would have thought the champo league would have bought him a season's reprieve but typically Real are merciless.

I'm sure he won't be too disappointed in fairness, I imagine the payout will be massive and he'll be able to go back to a more stable post where he can build again.

Lukker-

eagle eye wrote: »

Rafa makes sense because he came up through the ranks there and knows the inner workings of the club.

Satan himself doesn't know the inner workings of that club.

rob316

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I wanted Ancelotti to stay but his removal is justifiable. Unlike wannabe Super-Clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool, failure at Real Madrid is not tolerated. Standards are always as close to perfect as humanly possible. If Anchelotti gets away with failure, what does that say about the club? What does that say to future players and managers? What does that say to the children on the underage teams? What does that say to the members of the club? Its OK to lose

Without these standards, Real Madrid wouldn't have become the greatest club of all time. The only way they can keep on being the greatest club of all time is by maintaining these standards.

The fans are also invested with maintaining these standards. Without fans demanding success at every turn, you just end up being Liverpool or Arsenal. Fine clubs, but not very successful of recent years. Maybe if they demanded more from their managers, they wouldn't be a combined 36 years without a title.

Previous to last year the last CL they won was in 2002. For a time they spent almost decade unable to get past the CL QF.

Barcelona could very well win there 4th European cup in 10 years next week.

Real Madrid for me fails as a football club. The worst fans, managerial revolving door, no commitment to youth. There trophy haul is pitiful for the amount of money spent. The money is spent on more marketable attacking players than solid defenders and the actual needs of the team.

Its a sideshow circus not a football club. Barcelona will continue to outperform them with there criminally short term approach.

MisterAnarchy

Turtwig wrote: »

Jose Mourinho won practically nothing during his tenure at Madrid. All he did was sow divisions in the Spanish team and give us really bad blooded Classico affairs. Yet, Madrid stuck with him.

Its not really Madrid ,make no mistake its the decision of one man Florentino Perez,he calls the tune .He is a dictator.

Florentino doesn't simply crave big trophies for his club, he yearns for the kind of shock and awe which used to accompany the Real Madrid of his boyhood.

Graham Hunter has an excellent article on why Ancelloti was sacked,its well worth a read
http://www.espnfc.com/club/real-madrid/86/blog/post/2466294/florentino-perez-fires-carlo-ancelotti-real-madrid

Madrid is a fiefdom; Florentino's fiefdom. There is no long-term, clearly thought-out, all-encompassing football strategy against which the work of Ancelotti can be measured.
Against which the sacking of Del Bosque or the hiring of Vanderlei Luxemburgo, the hiring of Carlos Queiroz or the selling of Claude Makelele can be measured.

What's the target, as Perez sees it? What are the parameters? What constitutes success? What defines failure? Moreover, what are the remedies?

In essence, to sack Ancelotti is to punish him for not giving Florentino what he craves: domination over Barcelona. Yet sacking Ancelotti also perpetuates the idea that Florentino really is, as Emilio Butragueno baptised him, a "ser superior" ("superior being"). It perpetuates the idea that the man who causes most of Madrid's problems (bar Messi), i.e. Florentino, is also the man who can solve them.

Morzadec

As much as I have a soft spot for Benitez, I can only wish him all the worst if he takes over at Madrid.

Their fans and their owner deserve nothing more than another trophyless season

Diabhal Beag

Rafa not giving a ****e about Chelsea fans and still winning trophies was a lot of fun. Can only hope he brings the same lack of enthusiasm to Madrid. It's what they deserve.

brianregan09

I'd say Satan would be the most familiar actually

MisterAnarchy

Morzadec wrote: »

As much as I have a soft spot for Benitez, I can only wish him all the worst if he takes over at Madrid.

Their fans and their owner deserve nothing more than another trophyless season

Perez seems to have a soft spot for Benitez,this is about the third time he has been tipped for the job.

I cant see Benitez's ugly brand of football going down well at the Bernabeu.
Whilst he played decent football with Valencia ,he has become a much more defensive minded coach since then .
I hope he isnt hired as I like watching Real play ,they are always entertaining.

NIMAN

It should be remembered that Barca was also a relatively unstable club too, its only really in the last decade that it really got its act together.

But Madrid are Madrid. They will never change. They are attractive to most players simply because of their name. Of course they pay big wages and transfer fees, and that's usually how they get the players they want.

They will never try to nurture their own talent. The occasional player comes through like Raul or Casillas but they are few and far between. Some are promising but simply don't get the chance, like Portillo or Saldado. They are a buying club as they crave instant success. As do their fans.

But they are fickle, and maybe the most fickle fans in the world. Look at how they are treating Bale this season, but they were fawning over him that time he scored in the Copa final, and the header in the CL. They have short memories.

But for some to say they spend all their money on forwards is nonsense. If you watch the money they spend on defenders, you'd be baffled as to why they are often so fragile. But then again that could be said for a lot of clubs. I just think there is a dearth of top quality defenders these days.

Rafa is far too conservative for Madrid, but he's a local man who will be welcomed. The fans demand not just winning but winning in style. Rafa ain't going to bring that. So I would not be surprised to see Rafa win the CL in the next 2 seasons, and then get the sack for playing rubbish football.

MisterAnarchy

NIMAN wrote: »

They will never try to nurture their own talent. The occasional player comes through like Raul or Casillas but they are few and far between. Some are promising but simply don't get the chance, like Portillo or Saldado. They are a buying club as they crave instant success. As do their fans.

The ironic thing is that Real have a very good academy ,in fact the team with by far the highest number of players in La Liga is Real Madrid .
They loan out a huge amount of players and also sell on alot of players but Perez doesnt seem to trust them.

He wants the big recognised names,the galacticos ,as they are marketable .

Ulysses Gaze

NIMAN wrote: »

It should be remembered that Barca was also a relatively unstable club too, its only really in the last decade that it really got its act together.

But Madrid are Madrid. They will never change. They are attractive to most players simply because of their name. Of course they pay big wages and transfer fees, and that's usually how they get the players they want.

They will never try to nurture their own talent. The occasional player comes through like Raul or Casillas but they are few and far between. Some are promising but simply don't get the chance, like Portillo or Saldado. They are a buying club as they crave instant success. As do their fans.

But they are fickle, and maybe the most fickle fans in the world. Look at how they are treating Bale this season, but they were fawning over him that time he scored in the Copa final, and the header in the CL. They have short memories.

But for some to say they spend all their money on forwards is nonsense. If you watch the money they spend on defenders, you'd be baffled as to why they are often so fragile. But then again that could be said for a lot of clubs. I just think there is a dearth of top quality defenders these days.

Rafa is far too conservative for Madrid, but he's a local man who will be welcomed. The fans demand not just winning but winning in style. Rafa ain't going to bring that. So I would not be surprised to see Rafa win the CL in the next 2 seasons, and then get the sack for playing rubbish football.

There is precedence for this. Capello staged the mother of all comebacks back in 2006 to overhaul Barcelona to win the league....and was sacked for playing what was called "turgid" football.

Rafa ain't going to play stylish football.

tastyt

Rafa Will be an unmitigated disaster. Madrid could not handle Mourinho and Rafael is an inferior Mourinho. Rafa doesn't do ego from his players and as much as people will say that is a good thing, to be Madrid manager you must indulge Ronaldo etc.

Ancelloti has shown, by winning el decima and by unluckily finishing two points behind a rampant barca with a front 3 never seen in history, that it takes a diplomat, a gentle touch and a calming influence to get the best from a seriously flawed club, and rafa is certainly not built that way

Ulysses Gaze

tastyt wrote: »

Rafa Will be an unmitigated disaster. Madrid could not handle Mourinho and Rafael is an inferior Mourinho. Rafa doesn't do ego from his players and as much as people will say that is a good thing, to be Madrid manager you must indulge Ronaldo etc.

Ancelloti has shown, by winning el decima and by unluckily finishing two points behind a rampant barca with a front 3 never seen in history, that it takes a diplomat, a gentle touch and a calming influence to get the best from a seriously flawed club, and rafa is certainly not built that way

If history shows anything with Rafa, it is that he falls out with players too easily.

i have to agree, it'll be a disaster.

The Golden Miller

Benitez is good at carrying on a teams form, from a manager who took that same team to a higher level. Rarely will he improve them, but in saying that eh won't take them backwards either. We saw this at Napoli, Valencia, Chelsea and Inter. Liverpool were the slight exception, where he did improve them a fair bit, thanks to Alonso really. Had an indian summer which won them the Champions League, but couldn't build on that, when he really should have. He's steady, but if you're Madrid and want to push for a league and Champions League double at least, he isn't your man.

dfx-

I'm as much of a Benitez fanboy as anyone else, but he won't work at the Bernabeu. He won't have control over signings which is why he left Valencia and cause of strife in Liverpool and the style won't suit them.

They'll be a dangerous side if they respond to him, but it won't last long.

Ancelotti and Pellegrini have done very well at Madrid because they're capable of shrugging it off and getting enough people on-side enough of the time. Madrid with that type of manager are always a threat. Mourinho, Benitez not so much because it will implode.

Korat

If Ancelotti goes to Liverpool I will denounce my atheism and believe in an irrational deity which encourages the love of trees.

Ulysses Gaze

Korat wrote: »

If Ancelotti goes to Liverpool I will denounce my atheism and believe in an irrational deity which encourages the love of trees.

He's apparently taking a years sabbatical and having a back operation.

So your Atheism is still safe :pac:

frankly I'm delighted if real ever brought some stability and logic to the organisation with the money they spend and there club appeal they would be terrifying whoever takes the job deserves what they get they know what they are signing up for

Zemuppet

If Rafa does join I'd give him a year tops. I think he can win trophes but with his style of football, been not fully in control of the team's transfers and the fickle nature of many Madrid fans, it will end in tears.

Billy86

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Like who? If they've decided no to Klopp for whatever reason then I don't know of anyone available in the tier above Benitez (not a whole heap of names in that tier anyway).

LuckyLloyd

People overthink the Real job tbh because they are stuck in an old way of thinking about football management, about giving managers time to build a team, etc. Rafa's political stuff as demonstrated in previous jobs won't be a problem because he's never going to last long enough for it to be. And that's leaving aside the fact that investment in the squad isn't an issue. But really: if he lasted three years he would have won two major trophies in his first two years.

Rafa will survive past six months if the players respond to him and at that point he'll be winning regularly enough that his style of play or any other bull**** won't matter. Then he gets a second year or not based on whether the push through down the stretch and win the league / CL or not. If not, Real go and get someone else in. Mourinho got three years there because he's Mourinho and was up against THAT Barca side his first couple of years.

Rafa's credentials are far superior to some of the managers in and out of the revolving door there the past few years tbh, but it wouldn't matter if he was Alex Ferguson himself, no one is having a long traditional spell at that club.

Knex*

Korat wrote: »

If Ancelotti goes to Liverpool I will denounce my atheism and believe in an irrational deity which encourages the love of trees.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

He's apparently taking a years sabbatical and having a back operation.

So your Atheism is still safe :pac:

Shh. I want to see where this tree loving goes.

kfallon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Rafa will survive past six months if the players respond to him and at that point he'll be winning regularly enough that his style of play or any other bull**** won't matter.

This is Real Madrid, the club and their fans are a law unto themselves. If they are grinding out 1-0 wins every week they won't be impressed! Style means a lot to them, they are expected to win....and win in style!

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People overthink the Real job tbh because they are stuck in an old way of thinking about football management, about giving managers time to build a team, etc. Rafa's political stuff as demonstrated in previous jobs won't be a problem because he's never going to last long enough for it to be. And that's leaving aside the fact that investment in the squad isn't an issue. But really: if he lasted three years he would have won two major trophies in his first two years.

Rafa will survive past six months if the players respond to him and at that point he'll be winning regularly enough that his style of play or any other bull**** won't matter. Then he gets a second year or not based on whether the push through down the stretch and win the league / CL or not. If not, Real go and get someone else in. Mourinho got three years there because he's Mourinho and was up against THAT Barca side his first couple of years.

Rafa's credentials are far superior to some of the managers in and out of the revolving door there the past few years tbh, but it wouldn't matter if he was Alex Ferguson himself, no one is having a long traditional spell at that club.

:rolleyes:
Then you know nothing about Real Madrid and their fans.

GavRedKing

I think even Rafa would get Real close to 100 goals, if he plays the current trio up top like Carlo has. Ronaldo alone will probably get 50% of them anyway and then hes relying on guys like Bale, Benzema, James to chip in with 10-20 goals.

They could play like Brazil from the 70's but unless they win trophies to go with their play and goal scoring Rafa will be in and out in no time.

I'd be interested to see what Rafa can do there either way.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People overthink the Real job tbh because they are stuck in an old way of thinking about football management, about giving managers time to build a team, etc. Rafa's political stuff as demonstrated in previous jobs won't be a problem because he's never going to last long enough for it to be. And that's leaving aside the fact that investment in the squad isn't an issue. But really: if he lasted three years he would have won two major trophies in his first two years.

Rafa will survive past six months if the players respond to him and at that point he'll be winning regularly enough that his style of play or any other bull**** won't matter. Then he gets a second year or not based on whether the push through down the stretch and win the league / CL or not. If not, Real go and get someone else in. Mourinho got three years there because he's Mourinho and was up against THAT Barca side his first couple of years.

Rafa's credentials are far superior to some of the managers in and out of the revolving door there the past few years tbh, but it wouldn't matter if he was Alex Ferguson himself, no one is having a long traditional spell at that club.

what happens when Benitez gives the cold shoulder to Perez' favourites when they don't have the discipline he wants. Marcelo and Ramos being prime candidates, potentially Rodriguez or Isco and stats playing Jese or Illaramendi...

Madrid is a team of highly strung individuals who probably have direct lines to Marca journalists.

gimmick

I think whoever takes over would do well to try and get the likes of Jese starting as much as possible. I get the impression that the Madrista fans would like to indentify with "one of our own" rather than the constant influx of over priced galacticos who have varying degrees of success.

With all the talk of Benitez, I reckon it wont be him, but will be Zidane. I think Perez sees him as their version of Pep and he can replicate what Pep did at Barca.

cson

gimmick wrote: »

I think whoever takes over would do well to try and get the likes of Jese starting as much as possible. I get the impression that the Madrista fans would like to indentify with "one of our own" rather than the constant influx of over priced galacticos who have varying degrees of success.

With all the talk of Benitez, I reckon it wont be him, but will be Zidane. I think Perez sees him as their version of Pep and he can replicate what Pep did at Barca.

I don't think that's a concept with the Madrista. Otherwise y'know they'd have all got behind Casillas wouldn't they?

LuckyLloyd

kfallon wrote: »

This is Real Madrid, the club and their fans are a law unto themselves. If they are grinding out 1-0 wins every week they won't be impressed! Style means a lot to them, they are expected to win....and win in style!

rob316 wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Then you know nothing about Real Madrid and their fans.

dfx- wrote: »

what happens when Benitez gives the cold shoulder to Perez' favourites when they don't have the discipline he wants. Marcelo and Ramos being prime candidates, potentially Rodriguez or Isco and stats playing Jese or Illaramendi...

Madrid is a team of highly strung individuals who probably have direct lines to Marca journalists.

My point is he won't be sacked halfway through a season if they are winning games. No matter the style of play. If they're in the mix for the league and the CL they'll keep him on to the end of the year. Whether they'd renew him is a different story but the point I'm making is that it is pointless thinking beyond the next season at Real Madrid. Capello and Busquets were sacked following successful seasons. That's how they roll.

A disaster at Madrid is Carlos Quiros territory where you get dumped after a few months. And that may happen with Benitez if the players don't get behind him. But if they do get on board, he'll see out a year at least imo.

gimmick

cson wrote: »

I don't think that's a concept with the Madrista. Otherwise y'know they'd have all got behind Casillas wouldn't they?

As i said, I get the impression the fans want to try a different approach. In the last 10 years they have won very very little in their terms - 3 leagues, 2 cup and a CL (the horror). In this period Barca have won 3 CLs, 6 leagues and 2 cups with a team who had a heavy influence from the youth system. Madrid want the same.

Dickerty

Rafa is very pragmatic, he knows you need to battle to win some games, not always pretty.
I don't think you will see him playing a front 6 of Kroos, Modric, James, Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo in too many away games.
And maybe that's what they need. Sign someone like Vidal to shore up the middle, and a few similar characters. Maybe Hummels, maybe Gundogan?

MD1990

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People overthink the Real job tbh because they are stuck in an old way of thinking about football management, about giving managers time to build a team, etc. Rafa's political stuff as demonstrated in previous jobs won't be a problem because he's never going to last long enough for it to be. And that's leaving aside the fact that investment in the squad isn't an issue. But really: if he lasted three years he would have won two major trophies in his first two years.

Rafa will survive past six months if the players respond to him and at that point he'll be winning regularly enough that his style of play or any other bull**** won't matter. Then he gets a second year or not based on whether the push through down the stretch and win the league / CL or not. If not, Real go and get someone else in. Mourinho got three years there because he's Mourinho and was up against THAT Barca side his first couple of years.

Rafa's credentials are far superior to some of the managers in and out of the revolving door there the past few years tbh, but it wouldn't matter if he was Alex Ferguson himself, no one is having a long traditional spell at that club.

Style of play is huge for Real. Capello was sacked in 2007 despite winiing the league because of the style of play. If Rafa wins just one trophy in a poor style of play he will still be fired.

kingtiger

yes MD1990, I married into a family of season ticket holders so been to quite a few Real games throughout the years

I asked them why they wanted Capello sacked as I thought he did a good job and the answer was just "too negative"

Rafa wont last long

LuckyLloyd

MD1990 wrote: »

Style of play is huge for Real. Capello was sacked in 2007 despite winiing the league because of the style of play. If Rafa wins just one trophy in a poor style of play he will still be fired.

Yeah. You're not reading what I wrote though: he'll get fired within three years anyway no matter what he did, so it doesn't matter.

Knex*

I actually think Rafa will do just fine with Real. He loves cerebral players, and Madrid has quite a few of them at the moment.

His Valencia team had nowhere near this quality and he had them playing some great stuff at times. Played Liverpool off the park one year, actually.

I don't think Rafa is going to go in there and shut up shop. He'll have no need to.

bur

Concern for Rafa is he hasn't had that many great league campaigns since Valencia. The way Barca are going there won't be much room for error at all.
So many egos in the dressing room isn't ideal for his methods either, they'll be used to doing things a certain way, we seen what happened at Inter.

Perhaps if he buys well and has the squad to compete on all fronts like he's always wanted, if he has the depth to rotate without too much of a drop off in quality, maybe he'll do something special there.
I'd hate to see it go badly for him there, hope he gets two seasons at the very least.

bur

Knex. wrote: »

I actually think Rafa will do just fine with Real. He loves cerebral players, and Madrid has quite a few of them at the moment.

His Valencia team had nowhere near this quality and he had them playing some great stuff at times. Played Liverpool off the park one year, actually.

I don't think Rafa is going to go in there and shut up shop. He'll have no need to.

Remember that game well. That Valencia side was considered pretty boring in Spain though. His teams have always had games where they played great football, but never sustained it over a season.

joe123

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People overthink the Real job tbh because they are stuck in an old way of thinking about football management, about giving managers time to build a team, etc. Rafa's political stuff as demonstrated in previous jobs won't be a problem because he's never going to last long enough for it to be. And that's leaving aside the fact that investment in the squad isn't an issue. But really: if he lasted three years he would have won two major trophies in his first two years.

Rafa will survive past six months if the players respond to him and at that point he'll be winning regularly enough that his style of play or any other bull**** won't matter. Then he gets a second year or not based on whether the push through down the stretch and win the league / CL or not. If not, Real go and get someone else in. Mourinho got three years there because he's Mourinho and was up against THAT Barca side his first couple of years.

Rafa's credentials are far superior to some of the managers in and out of the revolving door there the past few years tbh, but it wouldn't matter if he was Alex Ferguson himself, no one is having a long traditional spell at that club.

Correct me if im mistaken but didnt they sack Capello the season he WON the league?

Yeah, style of play is pretty damn important to the crazy's that run Real.

EDIT: Just checked there:

Despite winning La Liga, Capello was sacked on 28 June 2007 due to Real's pragmatic style of play at a club with recent memories of the individualistic and free-flowing, but ultimately unsuccessful Galáctico era.[58]

brevity

Not sure why people think Rafa's matches are going to be all boring 1-nil wins, Napoli have scored over 100 goals this season.

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/napoli

Its actually their defense that's the problem.

MisterAnarchy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A disaster at Madrid is Carlos Quiros territory where you get dumped after a few months. And that may happen with Benitez if the players don't get behind him. But if they do get on board, he'll see out a year at least imo.

Quieroz lasted a full season at Real