Real Madrid - 20 straight wins, Ancelotti the greatest manager of the modern era?

LuckyLloyd

joe123 wrote: »

Correct me if im mistaken but didnt they sack Capello the season he WON the league?

Yeah, style of play is pretty damn important to the crazy's that run Real.

EDIT: Just checked there:

Yeah but Capello still won the league and left with his reputation boosted. From a manager's perspective you get a brilliant squad that has a shot of winning every competition they're in.

Since January 1974 Real Madrid have had 35 managers of which only four lasted for a period of 2 years, 9 months or more.

As such, people are looking at this the wrong way. Benitez, if appointed, should get in and try and do it his way to win a major trophy his first year. Because there is no 'long term' Real Madrid job worth worrying about.

jmayo

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I wanted Ancelotti to stay but his removal is justifiable. Unlike wannabe Super-Clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool, failure at Real Madrid is not tolerated. Standards are always as close to perfect as humanly possible. If Anchelotti gets away with failure, what does that say about the club? What does that say to future players and managers? What does that say to the children on the underage teams? What does that say to the members of the club? Its OK to lose

Without these standards, Real Madrid wouldn't have become the greatest club of all time. The only way they can keep on being the greatest club of all time is by maintaining these standards.

The fans are also invested with maintaining these standards. Without fans demanding success at every turn, you just end up being Liverpool or Arsenal. Fine clubs, but not very successful of recent years. Maybe if they demanded more from their managers, they wouldn't be a combined 36 years without a title.

Reading that one would expect then that they would be one hell of a well run club then ?

This is the same club that wouldn't exist, but for a bailout from the government/king of Spain.
But then again Real always did rely on it's close ties with the Spanish rulers.

The reason Real became possibly one of "the greatest club of all time" is based on how many European cups they hold.
But how did Real become so dominant in Spain and by extension Europe.
Did it have anything to do with the country's dictator. :rolleyes:

Why not check out how di Stefano ended up at Real ?

5 of the European cups were the first 5 of the competition.
AFAIK there was no English club in the first one and in 58 the united team were wiped out in Munich.

For all their supposed brilliance where were they in the 70s and 80s in Europe ?
How many titles have they won even though they have spent a bloody fortune ?

How many truly world class players have come through from their academies ?

And how many clubs would have fans that would treat loyal long term servants as badly as they do.

Whilst it may be a massive club, it is often run like a mickie mouse operation where the president can call the shots on the field and where looks now matter as much as football prowess.

JohnDaniels

bur wrote: »

Remember that game well. That Valencia side was considered pretty boring in Spain though. His teams have always had games where they played great football, but never sustained it over a season.

That Valencia side completely shifted gears the second year they won the league. They were are hugely exciting side in that second yearwho only scored one less goal that the top scorers in the league that season.

DaveyCakes

joe123 wrote: »

Correct me if im mistaken but didnt they sack Capello the season he WON the league?

Yeah, style of play is pretty damn important to the crazy's that run Real.

EDIT: Just checked there:

They sacked Jupp Heynkes straight after he won the Champions League

Liam McPoyle

If Rafa gets the Madrid job is be quite confident he won't last a calendar year.

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

If Rafa gets the Madrid job is be quite confident he won't last a calendar year.

That's a big statement to make about a club who shows incredible loyalty and patience to managers!

Ulysses Gaze

Don't know why Real would consider appointing Zidane. He only managed to lead Castilla to 9th in the Segunda B.

Guardiola he ain't.

Liam McPoyle

rarnes1 wrote: »

That's a big statement to make about a club who shows incredible loyalty and patience to managers!

:pac:

kevthegaff

Rafa will fall out with players but for the improvement of the team. He handled gerard perfectly when he was considering leaving liverpool. He had him playing his best football on the right wing the year they came second even though gerard and tge fans wanted him in the centre. He had a good record again the big teams, i believe tactically hes better thsn mourinho (transfers not so!) . He will win the league nxt year as theres a handful of games that decide it.

~Rebel~

brevity wrote: »

Not sure why people think Rafa's matches are going to be all boring 1-nil wins, Napoli have scored over 100 goals this season.

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/napoli

Its actually their defense that's the problem.

His best Liverpool teams scored a ****load of goals too, from all over the pitch (for example against Real).

His tactics can be somewhat rigid, but everyone knows exactly what their job is, and the objective is to score lots of goals. There's less individual creativity, but more tactical awareness from the team, and an actual plan behind moves. Its only when the talent isn't there to do the required job that things can fall apart. Not so much of an issue at Real though.

I actually think he'd do well there. They have a lot of strong leader types of players, which he usually thrives with - were always his favorite players to buy. As Lloyd said though, he still won't get more than 2 or 3 years even with the best case scenarios, as thats just not how Real roll.

cson

gimmick wrote: »

As i said, I get the impression the fans want to try a different approach. In the last 10 years they have won very very little in their terms - 3 leagues, 2 cup and a CL (the horror). In this period Barca have won 3 CLs, 6 leagues and 2 cups with a team who had a heavy influence from the youth system. Madrid want the same.

In fairness Barcelona just seemed to get an exceptional crop, similar to United's class of 93/94, in that Pedro/Busquets/Messi/Pique all came on the scene at the same time to add to Iniesta and Xavi.

Can't think of anyone they've brought through in the last few years that's a starter now - Rafina might get there, they sold his brother Thiago, the likes of Montoya and Bartra are in and out of the team and always linked with moves away. Samper looks like he should make it, but the last 3 or so years - they haven't brought a starter through. But hey, who knows maybe they might go after someone like Bellerin and claim him as a youth system product out of their Arsenal Academy :pac:

Gbear

cson wrote: »

Rafina might get there, they sold his brother Thiago,

Wasn't that regarded as a cock up though?

gimmick

That was Thiago looking for first team football after being told he would have to be happy to rotate for a few seasons. I'd also imagine he had an agent in his ear also looking for a payday.

NIMAN

The Barca academy will have quiet periods, and maybe one is coming?

As said, they got it very lucky there for a few years.

2/3 of their all conquering front line was brought in for huge money, a la Real Madrid, yet they don't seem to get the same abuse.

I think a fallow period for Barca would do the world of football the power of good!!

Andersonisgod

NIMAN wrote: »

The Barca academy will have quiet periods, and maybe one is coming?

As said, they got it very lucky there for a few years.

2/3 of their all conquering front line was brought in for huge money, a la Real Madrid, yet they don't seem to get the same abuse.

I think a fallow period for Barca would do the world of football the power of good!!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but.....I'm afraid I got some bad news!

The Barcelona academy is as strong as ever and the next crop are just a little bit special. If anything it was the current crop of Montoya, Bartra ect. that were considered slightly below par (which is harsh cos some have really developed). The next class with the likes of Adama Traore and Sergi Samper in particular are can't miss, potentially world class talents. Grimaldo, Munir, Denis Suarez also have a lot of potential to make it big.

The production line just keeps delivering gems.

GavRedKing

NIMAN wrote: »

The Barca academy will have quiet periods, and maybe one is coming?

As said, they got it very lucky there for a few years.

2/3 of their all conquering front line was brought in for huge money, a la Real Madrid, yet they don't seem to get the same abuse.

I think a fallow period for Barca would do the world of football the power of good!!

Barcas success allows them some lee way with regards to their purchases.

Lets not get too carried away, Barca have bought some donkeys for obscene money too but the way Neymar and Suarez have settled, coupled with the success of Barca this year and previous years, the transfer fees are rarely mentioned.

cson

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but.....I'm afraid I got some bad news!

The Barcelona academy is as strong as ever and the next crop are just a little bit special. If anything it was the current crop of Montoya, Bartra ect. that were considered slightly below par (which is harsh cos some have really developed). The next class with the likes of Adama Traore and Sergi Samper in particular are can't miss, potentially world class talents. Grimaldo, Munir, Denis Suarez also have a lot of potential to make it big.

The production line just keeps delivering gems.

Nope. Not letting you have that one.

Suarez is from Celta via Man City and was ~19 when he signed for you.

Saw him in the friendly vs Limerick a couple of years back and he was head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. Mental that City let him go.

rob316

cson wrote: »

Nope. Not letting you have that one.

Suarez is from Celta via Man City and was ~19 when he signed for you.

Saw him in the friendly vs Limerick a couple of years back and he was head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. Mental that City let him go.

Ya saw him at the same friendly, easily the best player on the pitch. A pitch that included established WC talents.

SantryRed

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Don't know why Real would consider appointing Zidane. He only managed to lead Castilla to 9th in the Segunda B.

Guardiola he ain't.

Guardiola won the league below that though.

Pepe LeFrits

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Don't know why Real would consider appointing Zidane.

They'll run out of other big names to appoint eventually!

Mars Bar

Is Big Sam going to get his chance to walk the walk instead of talking the talk?! :pac:

Andersonisgod

cson wrote: »

Nope. Not letting you have that one.

Suarez is from Celta via Man City and was ~19 when he signed for you.

Saw him in the friendly vs Limerick a couple of years back and he was head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. Mental that City let him go.

I wasn't so much specifically listing players that have developed at La Masia, just naming out some of the next crop that could break into the Barcelona first team.

It's all well and good being a standout there, to learn to play the Barcelona way, to be able to function in that philosophy is something else entirely. As Thierry Henry said, it's like learning a different language, and if he succeeds at Barcelona, the coaches at the club will certainly deserve credit for teaching him the language of Barcelona.

Shanotheslayer

NIMAN wrote: »

The Barca academy will have quiet periods, and maybe one is coming?

As said, they got it very lucky there for a few years.

2/3 of their all conquering front line was brought in for huge money, a la Real Madrid, yet they don't seem to get the same abuse.

I think a fallow period for Barca would do the world of football the power of good!!

2 players bought for huge money. Compared to roughly 8 or 9 Madrid players... And that's just starters. That's why they don't get abuse.

eagle eye

Mars Bar wrote: »

Is Big Sam going to get his chance to walk the walk instead of talking the talk?! :pac:

I am going to keep repeating this everytime I see that comment.

Allardyce was asked at an pre-game interview for a game against Fulham something like this,

'Mark Hughes seems to have settle in at Fulham now, do you think he has found the right level for him?'

Allardyce took the mick out of the writer that asked him that question and said that both he and Mark Hughes level would be managing Real Madrid or Internazionale.

JohnDaniels

eagle eye wrote: »

I am going to keep repeating this everytime I see that comment.

Allardyce was asked at an pre-game interview for a game against Fulham something like this,

'Mark Hughes seems to have settle in at Fulham now, do you think he has found the right level for him?'

Allardyce took the mick out of the writer that asked him that question and said that both he and Mark Hughes level would be managing Real Madrid or Internazionale.

You get jokes.

eagle eye

JohnDaniels wrote: »

You get jokes.

I get jokes but a lot of people believe he said this as if he believed it. I just like to point out that he didn't.

NIMAN

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

2 players bought for huge money. Compared to roughly 8 or 9 Madrid players... And that's just starters. That's why they don't get abuse.

Just did a quick count, and there were 7 starters v Bayern not from the academy, I.e. They were bought for big money.

GavRedKing

Ryan Babel gives us his thoughts on Rafa to Real.

https://twitter.com/Ryanbabel/status/603900030534189056?s=01

Shanotheslayer

NIMAN wrote: »

Just did a quick count, and there were 7 starters v Bayern not from the academy, I.e. They were bought for big money.

Ter Stegen 12M
Mash 20M
Pique 5M
Alba 14M
Alves 35.5M
Rakitic 18M

Total 104.4M

So Only 1 player over 20 Million. (Excluding Suarez/Neymar as I said 2)

If you think 20 million is big money in football. I got bad news for you mate.

So let's do Madrid with Ronaldo/Bale:


Carvajal 6.5M
Ramos 27M
Varane 10M
Marcelo 6.5M
Kroos 30M
Isco 30M
Rodriguez 80M
Benzema 35M

Total 225M


And that's just who played V Juve without the regular starters of Modric/Pepe/Arbeloa.

So yes, it's a massive difference.

gimmick

I thought Carvajal came through Reals system no?

Skylinehead

gimmick wrote: »

I thought Carvajal came through Reals system no?

He did, but they sold him and rebought him off Leverkusen.

Rayne Wooney

Rafa won't last long, Madrid fans will not take to his style unless he wins everything but that's going to be difficult with Barca looking a lot superior

GLaDOS

Rafa leaving Napoli anyway

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/28/rafael-benitez-napoli-leaving-real-madrid

gimmick

While not an exciting appointment, Benitez will win things with Real. His style will smother Barca in the Clasicos. And had Real drawn the away Clasico this time round, they would be champions again.

Id say his arrival could see Khedira staying as well.

GLaDOS

You'd imagine he'd have them a lot more balanced, though that might be difficult to achieve while keeping the plethora of attacking players happy.

citytillidie

When Rafa has the players who can play the way he wants and at full fitness for a full season his teams can be free flowing and scoring goals

Case in point the one real time he had a good squad in Liverpool when they finished 2nd his team were top goal scores in the league and also had the best goal difference.

NIMAN

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Ter Stegen 12M
Mash 20M
Pique 5M
Alba 14M
Alves 35.5M
Rakitic 18M

Total 104.4M

So Only 1 player over 20 Million. (Excluding Suarez/Neymar as I said 2)

If you think 20 million is big money in football. I got bad news for you mate.

So let's do Madrid with Ronaldo/Bale:


Carvajal 6.5M
Ramos 27M
Varane 10M
Marcelo 6.5M
Kroos 30M
Isco 30M
Rodriguez 80M
Benzema 35M

Total 225M


And that's just who played V Juve without the regular starters of Modric/Pepe/Arbeloa.

So yes, it's a massive difference.

But thats only comparing Barca with Madrid, and we all know Madrid is a basket case.

How does Barca compare with the other biggies in Europe like Chelsea, Bayern, PSG, Man Utd etc

Turtwig

Barca broke their transfer record this season and it was still under €160 million paid out. That's ignoring funds they might have brought in from transfer.

In general the club has been hit/miss with their signings. Someone, gimmick, I think, did a list of their transfer through Pep's era and some were quite terrible.

Andersonisgod

Turtwig wrote: »

Barca broke their transfer record this season and it was still under €160 million paid out. That's ignoring funds they might have brought in from transfer.

In general the club has been hit/miss with their signings. Someone, gimmick, I think, did a list of their transfer through Pep's era and some were quite terrible.

It's important to remember that going to play for Barcelona is not like going to play for any other club. The style is so unique (I realise Ajax pops into mind here but the standard is significantly higher at Barcelona) that there's very little way of knowing who will succeed and who will fail until they actually arrive.

For example, on paper Sanchez looked ideal for Barcelona when he first joined, in action it turned out that wasn't really the case and he is now building a fantastic career at Arsenal. On the other hand, Suarez was a stroke of genius, exactly what the side needed.

It can go one way or the other but there's rarely much middle ground when it comes to Barcelona signings.

NIMAN

How long has this "unique style of play" been getting coached/taught at Barca?

Andersonisgod

NIMAN wrote: »

How long has this "unique style of play" been getting coached/taught at Barca?

I'd say since the influx of the Dutch way of Total Football arrived at Barcelona. A lot of people also credit Vic Buckingham for what he contributed to Barcelona. There's been a lot of contributors but it's Pep Guardiola that rejuvenated the philosophy and, along with that, rejuvenated the club.

Turtwig

Andersonisgod wrote: »

For example, on paper Sanchez looked ideal for Barcelona when he first joined, in action it turned out that wasn't really the case and he is now building a fantastic career at Arsenal. On the other hand, Suarez was a stroke of genius, exactly what the side needed.

Alexis took a while to settle. Sid Lowe wrote about how he was shy and scared in the dressing room and slowly grew into his new surroundings. That coupled with Barca's managerial woes and reliance on sterile possession meant most players didn't exactly shine. Alexis played very very well regardless. I'd argue in Enrique's team he'd have been a better fit than Pedro currently is.

Alexis won them at least 2 Clasicos. If not 3. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Andersonisgod

Turtwig wrote: »

Alexis took a while to settle. Sid Lowe wrote about how he was shy and scared in the dressing room and slowly grew into his new surroundings. That coupled with Barca's managerial woes and reliance on sterile possession meant most players didn't exactly shine. Alexis played very very well regardless. I'd argue in Enrique's team he'd have been a better fit than Pedro currently is.

Alexis won them at least 2 Clasicos. If not 3. Not bad. Not bad at all.

I felt his best form was the end of his Barcelona career. However given what was expected of him I don't think he could be called a success, especially when you see what he is capable of outside of Barcelona.

In theory yes he may be a better fit than Pedro but I still think that even though Enrique's Barcelona is different, its not different enough that he'd be a rousing success.

Hulk Hands

citytillidie wrote: »

Case in point the one real time he had a good squad in Liverpool when they finished 2nd his team were top goal scores in the league and also had the best goal difference.

A good squad for one season out of 6 after spending a shedload of money though tells it's own story. It wasnt a good squad either, it was a good first 11 but waferthin squad, as shown when it fell apart with normal luck from injuries the following season. I'd hate him to be in charge during a transition phase. Perhaps Madrid will suit him though, he won't be making his own signings and will have max 2-3 years to simply get the players to perform on the pitch. It should play to his strengths

inforfun

Turtwig wrote: »

Alexis took a while to settle. Sid Lowe wrote about how he was shy and scared in the dressing room and slowly grew into his new surroundings. That coupled with Barca's managerial woes and reliance on sterile possession meant most players didn't exactly shine. Alexis played very very well regardless. I'd argue in Enrique's team he'd have been a better fit than Pedro currently is.

Alexis won them at least 2 Clasicos. If not 3. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Alexis Sanchez was Barca's best player in his last season there.
And i think he would have been at least as influential as Suarez was this season. And available for the first 4 months of the season....


Benitez at Real will not last long.

Benitez seem to do well at clubs that aren't expected to win much as they are just below the real top teams in their league and make them over-perform a bit. Valencia en Liverpool the best examples.
Because lets no see that CL win of Liverpool as a stroke of Benitez' genius. Freak result if ever there was one.

His work at Napoli, i cant describe anything else than a failure.

rob316

Defensively benitez is excellent but my biggest problem I had with him at Liverpool was his reluctance to just go for it.

His style is suited for cups not league titles, that his last one was 11 years ago tells you that.

The season he finished 2nd with Liverpool he messed up with all the draws against lower table opposition. With a spine of reina, carragher, Alonso, mascherano, Gerrard and Torres we should have won that league.

bucketybuck

rob316 wrote: »

With a spine of reina, carragher, Alonso, mascherano, Gerrard and Torres we should have won that league.

Huh?

United didn't have too bad a team that year either, one or two names in that team too.

eagle eye

It looks like I'm going against the grain here when I say I believe that Benitez will do very well at Real.

I think his style of football is perfectly suited to the club. He expects players to work hard and stick to the tasks given to them, and with the attacking talent available to him I can see his team dominating La Liga and possibly Europe next season.

niallo27

Hulk Hands wrote: »

A good squad for one season out of 6 after spending a shedload of money though tells it's own story. It wasnt a good squad either, it was a good first 11 but waferthin squad, as shown when it fell apart with normal luck from injuries the following season. I'd hate him to be in charge during a transition phase. Perhaps Madrid will suit him though, he won't be making his own signings and will have max 2-3 years to simply get the players to perform on the pitch. It should play to his strengths

The season they came 2nd Torres started only 18 games I think. Gerrard 30 and mascherano only 27. They had quite a few injuries that season.

Andersonisgod

eagle eye wrote: »

It looks like I'm going against the grain here when I say I believe that Benitez will do very well at Real.

I think his style of football is perfectly suited to the club. He expects players to work hard and stick to the tasks given to them, and with the attacking talent available to him I can see his team dominating La Liga and possibly Europe next season.

I fear I will have to remind you of this when Benitez and Real Madrid crash next season.