Denis O'Brien Irelands Sinister Fringe.

yipeeeee

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Apple are here because successive FFail/FG/Labour governments have cemented our standing in the world as a tax haven for MNC's.

Can America inland revenue not nail them so?

jam_mac_jam

Nodin wrote: »

Sure now?
https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.251654994880021.60172.126266120752243/812410485471133/?type=1&theater

Jesus. That cover is unbelievable

Jawgap

yipeeeee wrote: »

Can America inland revenue not nail them so?

Nope. They engineer things (and we let them) so that on paper the transactions nominally take place in our jurisdiction.

We could up our tax rates, subject them to more scrutiny etc but they'd just up sticks and move if things got too expensive for them.

It's not fair, it's not right but feck it if we don't do it someone else will so we might as well get the benefits - there's not much else the country can offer to bring in that level of investment.

yipeeeee

Jawgap wrote: »

Nope. They engineer things (and we let them) so that on paper the transactions nominally take place in our jurisdiction.

We could up our tax rates, subject them to more scrutiny etc but they'd just up sticks and move if things got too expensive for them.

It's not fair, it's not right but feck it if we don't do it someone else will so we might as well get the benefits - there's not much else the country can offer to bring in that level of investment.

I was replying to a post that said they can target big earners outside of America.

Jawgap

yipeeeee wrote: »

I was replying to a post that said they can target big earners outside of America.

Individual personal earners? Only if the tax they paid is than they otherwise would have paid if they were in the US (assuming the people in question are US citizens).

They also get taxed on anything they remit back to the US that they didn't pay tax on here, but tbh, the IRS / US Tax Code is so convoluted and complex there are always ways to defer, minimise and legitimately avoid a significant chunk of your personal tax liability.

Highflyer13

Nodin wrote: »

Sure now?
https://www.facebook.com/wearerabble/photos/a.251654994880021.60172.126266120752243/812410485471133/?type=1&theater

Puke. They really are a shameless bunch over there. JD right in the middle of it:D

Muahahaha

yipeeeee wrote: »

How come Obama was giving out about Apples affairs in Ireland?

Didn't he say they are avoiding paying huge taxes back home.

There's no doubt American companies did sweetheart deals with some European governments, the Obama administration is trying to get to the bottom of it and public opinion in America is largely that these companies should be paying their fair share of tax on American soil.

The IRS in the US has wide ranging powers and the average American citizen are scared sh1toess of them, they have the power to bug your phones, hack your email, you name it, all in the pursuit of anyone they suspect of tax dodging. It doesn't matter where in the world an American citizen lives, he still has to make an annual tax return to the IRS and pay taxes where applicable. IMO we should be doing the same, at least for the mega rich. They themselves use the infrastructure of Ireland to create their wealth but they don't seem to want to pay their fair share in supporting that infrastructure.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Jesus. That cover is unbelievable

That cover photo really is something else from Denis O'Brien media, fill yer champagne glass folks, the Celtic Tiger is back !

Nodin

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Jesus. That cover is unbelievable

I actually suspected photoshop when I first glanced it. The combination of the champagne glass wielding poses and the tossers in the photo seemed too surreal.

Joshua J

Nodin wrote: »

I actually suspected photoshop when I first glanced it. The combination of the champagne glass wielding poses and the tossers in the photo seemed too surreal.

They're laughing at the plebs. Literally. No one in that picture felt any austerity.

michael999999

Joshua J wrote: »

They're laughing at the plebs. Literally. No one in that picture felt any austerity.

Mainly the plebs that buy the independent and pay for there wages!

Fools!

Rough Sleeper

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Jesus. That cover is unbelievable

Can you actually being at that Christmas party, stuck for hours in a room with that bunch bunch of plonkers off their heads on coke? Scary.

steddyeddy

Denis O Brien insisted that UCD name their new science building the "Denis O Brien center of science" after that revolutionary scientist, Denis O Brien. Says it all really.

Jawgap

steddyeddy wrote: »

Denis O Brien insisted that UCD name their new science building the "Denis O Brien center of science" after that revolutionary scientist, Denis O Brien. Says it all really.

If that's the price of having the country's science infrastructure receive a shot in the arm like that then so what - they can call it the Bosco Building for all I care - it won't affect the quality of the research and teaching done there because God knows we really do need to improve the teaching of STE here, especially at undergrad level.

Phoebas

steddyeddy wrote: »

Denis O Brien insisted that UCD name their new science building the "Denis O Brien center of science" after that revolutionary scientist, Denis O Brien. Says it all really.

How dare he donate shedloads of money to Irish science education.
I wonder what kind of evil science they're working on in that building. Some kind of secret weapon to help him with his campaign of world domination no doubt.

The sinister bastard!!

20Cent

Jawgap wrote: »

If that's the price of having the country's science infrastructure receive a shot in the arm like that then so what - they can call it the Bosco Building for all I care - it won't affect the quality of the research and teaching done there because God knows we really do need to improve the teaching of STE here, especially at undergrad level.

I think the point being made is about his ego rather than the donation.
Maybe if we gave contracts to companies and people located in Ireland we wouldn't need donations to buy infrastructure for universities.

NoMore MrNiceGuy

Phoebas wrote: »

How dare he donate shedloads of money to Irish science education.
I wonder what kind of evil science they're working on in that building. Some kind of secret weapon to help him with his campaign of world domination no doubt.

The sinister bastard!!

That's not what the poster you were quoting was complaining about. Not the money, the name.

If he didn't live in Malta he might be contributing to UCD's budget anonymously like myself. And other taxpayers.

Jawgap

20Cent wrote: »

I think the point being made is about his ego rather than the donation.
Maybe if we gave contracts to companies and people located in Ireland we wouldn't need donations to buy infrastructure for universities.

i think if you take a walk through some of the best unis in the world you'll see lots of vanity projects and buildings......

Cambridge has the Wellcome Trust Centre - provided from funds from the pharmaceutical magnate Sir Henry Wellcome, for example. And in American universities everything is sponsored. Yale, Harvard etc still benefit from the philanthropy of Rockefeller.

If it means a better science education for our kids then so what if his ego gets a boost, give it a bigger boost if it means better facilities.

Andrew Carnegie was a big a boll1x as ever lived (DO'B is in the ha'penny place in comparison)- do we start knocking down the Carnegie libraries up and down the country?

Do we start un-naming everything named in this country after JFK because of how that family made it's money?

What about Chuck Feeney? Do we tell him to shove his money because he made it selling booze and fags and now he wants to make donations in a country that seems collectively to have a problem with alcohol?

NoMore MrNiceGuy

Jawgap wrote: »

i think if you take a walk through some of the best unis in the world you'll see lots of vanity projects and buildings......

Cambridge has the Wellcome Trust Centre - provided from funds from the pharmaceutical magnate Sir Henry Wellcome, for example. And in American universities everything is sponsored. Yale, Harvard etc still benefit from the philanthropy of Rockefeller.

If it means a better science education for our kids then so what if his ego gets a boost, give it a bigger boost if it means better facilities.

Andrew Carnegie was a big a boll1x as ever lived (DO'B is in the ha'penny place in comparison)- do we start knocking down the Carnegie libraries up and down the country?

Do we start un-naming everything named in this country after JFK because of how that family made it's money?

What about Chuck Feeney? Do we tell him to shove his money because he made it selling booze and fags and now he wants to make donations in a country that seems collectively to have a problem with alcohol?

How about we understand that he would have been subsidising that building and many more if he was taxed here. Feeney is a tax resident in the US.

Jawgap

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

How about we understand that he would have been subsidising that building and many more if he was taxed here. Feeney is a tax resident in the US.

So UCD should turn the gift down?

well if you feel so strongly about it and you have kids, tell them not to put UCD on their CAO form

smash

O'Brien doesn't live in Ireland, so why should he pay tax here? Just because he owns businesses here?

Dan_Solo

20Cent wrote: »

I think the point being made is about his ego rather than the donation.
Maybe if we gave contracts to companies and people located in Ireland we wouldn't need donations to buy infrastructure for universities.

Much like U2 and JP McManus, if they weren't such tax dodgers we mightn't need their charity so much.

Robert McGrath

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Much like U2 and JP McManus, if they weren't such tax dodgers we mightn't need their charity so much.

What about Bill Gates? Or the Sultan of Brunei? Should we be pissed off that they don't live in Ireland and pay their taxes here? Irish tax-dodging b*stards ...

20Cent

Robert McGrath wrote: »

What about Bill Gates? Or the Sultan of Brunei? Should we be pissed off that they don't live in Ireland and pay their taxes here? Irish tax-dodging b*stards ...

Does Bill Gates travel on an Irish passport, use Irish embassies when abroad or call himself Irish?

Robert McGrath

20Cent wrote: »

Does Bill Gates travel on an Irish passport, use Irish embassies when abroad or call himself Irish?

Does DOB? Genuine question ... I don't know the answer

20Cent

Robert McGrath wrote: »

Does DOB? Genuine question ... I don't know the answer

Yes he does.

Axel Lamp

More Left wing rabble nonsense. Go live in Cuba

nelly17

I bet hes really Batman

20Cent

Axel Lamp wrote: »

More Left wing rabble nonsense. Go live in Cuba

In Cuba preferred business people are given government contracts and decisions are made in secret?

Robert McGrath

20Cent wrote: »

Yes he does.

So if he gave up his Irish citizenship, the criticism if his tax status would cease?

Beano

20Cent wrote: »

Does Bill Gates travel on an Irish passport, use Irish embassies when abroad or call himself Irish?

So what. D'OB doesnt live here. If i moved abroad should i have to pay taxes in Ireland? Or is it only rich people that you dont like that should have to do that?

Beano

Robert McGrath wrote: »

So if he gave up his Irish citizenship, the criticism if his tax status would cease?

nah the rabble would just find something else to whinge about

steddyeddy

Jawgap wrote: »

So UCD should turn the gift down?

well if you feel so strongly about it and you have kids, tell them not to put UCD on their CAO form

Well actually no one lecturers included call it the DOB centre for science. It's quietly being phased out thankfully.

Alun

20Cent wrote: »

In Cuba preferred business people are given government contracts and decisions are made in secret?

Very probably, yes.

Oh I forgot, silly me, socialist / communist governments are all populated with saints, who only have the interests of "da people" at heart :rolleyes:

michael999999

Beano wrote: »

So what. D'OB doesnt live here. If i moved abroad should i have to pay taxes in Ireland? Or is it only rich people that you dont like that should have to do that?

Go look up the Moriarty Tribunal!

Bloody blue shirt apologists!

Beano

michael999999 wrote: »

Go look up the Moriarty Tribunal!

Bloody blue shirt apologists!

perhaps you could try and answer the question?

humanji

michael999999 wrote: »

Go look up the Moriarty Tribunal!

Bloody blue shirt apologists!

MOD: If you can't post with civility, then don't post.

Jawgap

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Much like U2 and JP McManus, if they weren't such tax dodgers we mightn't need their charity so much.

Are you against 'charity' (I'd call in philanthropy) in principle?

If someone lives here, pays taxes here etc should we tell them, thanks but no thanks if they want to gift something to the people and the State?

Should we hand Russborough House back to the Beit family - nice family, made their money from mining in South Africa and were pally-wally with Cecil Rhodes, so no issues there:rolleyes:

What about the Chester Beatty Library? Give that back? Ol' Sir Alfred Chester Beatty made his money from mining copper, and like Carnegie (who supported more than a few libraries here) he was pretty uncompromising when it came to organised labour.

...and what about Smurfit and Desmond - both tax exiles - should we hand back their gifts to education?

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well actually no one lecturers included call it the DOB centre for science. It's quietly being phased out thankfully.

I really don't care what they call it - I'm sure some modestly witty name will emerge in due course, if it hasn't already (although it's UCD so I wouldn't hold my breath for anything terribly creative )

If his donation frees up funds to be used elsewhere (such as funding PhDs and post-docs) I'm pretty much all for it. It's a coup for UCD, and a good example of how universities should be using their alumni.

NoMore MrNiceGuy

Beano wrote: »

So what. D'OB doesnt live here. If i moved abroad should i have to pay taxes in Ireland? Or is it only rich people that you dont like that should have to do that?

You should be banned from owning media for sure. Also he was found to be corrupt in making his fortune? Does this upset the "free market" fetishing here.

Italy or Russia seem to be the model for DOB's defenders on here. Steve Jobs or Edison he isn't.

NoMore MrNiceGuy

Jawgap wrote: »

Are you against 'charity' (I'd call in philanthropy) in principle?

If someone lives here, pays taxes here etc should we tell them, thanks but no thanks if they want to gift something to the people and the State?

Should we hand Russborough House back to the Beit family - nice family, made their money from mining in South Africa and were pally-wally with Cecil Rhodes, so no issues there:rolleyes:

What about the Chester Beatty Library? Give that back? Ol' Sir Alfred Chester Beatty made his money from mining copper, and like Carnegie (who supported more than a few libraries here) he was pretty uncompromising when it came to organised labour.

...and what about Smurfit and Desmond - both tax exiles - should we hand back their gifts to education?



I really don't care what they call it - I'm sure some modestly witty name will emerge in due course, if it hasn't already (although it's UCD so I wouldn't hold my breath for anything terribly creative )

If his donation frees up funds to be used elsewhere (such as funding PhDs and post-docs) I'm pretty much all for it. It's a coup for UCD, and a good example of how universities should be using their alumni.

The point is of course that he would be paying more in tax had he not "left" the country.

Beano

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

You should be banned from owning media for sure. Also he was found to be corrupt in making his fortune? Does this upset the "free market" fetishing here.

Italy or Russia seem to be the model for DOB's defenders on here. Steve Jobs or Edison he isn't.

what does any of this have to do with whether he should be paying taxes in a country he is not resident in? I get that you dont like the man or how he operates but that is irrelevant to where he decides to reside for taxation purposes.

Beano

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

The point is of course that he would be paying more in tax had he not "left" the country.

well of course he would. that is why he left. a choice that is open to every citizen of this country.

tayto lover

Beano wrote: »

well of course he would. that is why he left. a choice that is open to every citizen of this country.

The fact that he ran for tax reasons should also rule him out of getting Govt contracts.
We should be keeping those for people who pay tax here imo.

Beano

tayto lover wrote: »

The fact that he ran for tax reasons should also rule him out of getting Govt contracts.
We should be keeping those for people who pay tax here imo.

so he should be excluded from government contracts for doing something that isnt legal? i can see that ending badly, and expensively for the government.

Jawgap

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

The point is of course that he would be paying more in tax had he not "left" the country.

So are you saying he should be denied his rights under the various EU treaties that guarantee freedom of movement of people?

And again, are you suggesting that only people who are resident here can engage in philanthropy here?

tayto lover wrote: »

The fact that he ran for tax reasons should also rule him out of getting Govt contracts.
We should be keeping those for people who pay tax here imo.

Where is the evidence he 'ran for tax reasons'?

and if we are going to exclude companies owned by people who have the wealth to live where they choose, we're not going to have many to do business with because I'm assuming that those firms who've done much worse things (and are continuing to do some pretty nasty things in the world) than have a non-resident owner will equally be excluded from getting government contracts?

I mean, earlier in this thread people were lauding Siemens and their proposed deal for water metering - is that type of company acceptable as a bidder on government contracts? Given their history?

Dan_Solo

Beano wrote: »

so he should be excluded from government contracts for doing something that isnt legal? i can see that ending badly, and expensively for the government.

Funny, everything DOB touches seems to end badly and expensively for the Irish people as it is...

Jawgap

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

You should be banned from owning media for sure. Also he was found to be corrupt in making his fortune? Does this upset the "free market" fetishing here.

Italy or Russia seem to be the model for DOB's defenders on here. Steve Jobs or Edison he isn't.

Thank f£$k he's not!!!

Edison was extremely litigious and used litigation to force competitors into bankruptcy or handover their patents for a pittance - he was the original 'patent warrior' and conceived of the business strategy of using patent wars to stifle innovation and sustain market dominance. His 'real genius' was in the use of the legal system to secure and grow his market dominance - again O'Brien would be like Bosco beside him.

Beano

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Funny, everything DOB touches seems to end badly and expensively for the Irish people as it is...

you havent answered the question i asked

NoMore MrNiceGuy

Jawgap wrote: »

So are you saying he should be denied his rights under the various EU treaties that guarantee freedom of movement of people?

And again, are you suggesting that only people who are resident here can engage in philanthropy here?



Where is the evidence he 'ran for tax reasons'?
and if we are going to exclude companies owned by people who have the wealth to live where they choose, we're not going to have many to do business with because I'm assuming that those firms who've done much worse things (and are continuing to do some pretty nasty things in the world) than have a non-resident owner will equally be excluded from getting government contracts?

I mean, earlier in this thread people were lauding Siemens and their proposed deal for water metering - is that type of company acceptable as a bidder on government contracts? Given their history?

You seem to be utterly unable to understand the point put to you and have to start shot-gunning strawman arguments. No I am not "saying" any of your strawman arguments. I am saying that if he paid his tax as a resident he would have contributed more to the State than his paltry contribution to UCD. Philanthropy is meaningless in those circumstances.

Lay off the whataboutary.

NoMore MrNiceGuy

Beano wrote: »

so he should be excluded from government contracts for doing something that isnt legal? i can see that ending badly, and expensively for the government.

I doubt if european courts would actually be sympathetic to tax dodgers. In any case DOB -- free market hero to his admirers and crony capitalist cheat to his detractors -- has been found guilty by an organ of the state of wrong doing so that should be enough.

Beano

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

I doubt if european courts would actually be sympathetic to tax dodgers. In any case DOB -- free market hero to his admirers and crony capitalist cheat to his detractors -- has been found guilty by an organ of the state of wrong doing so that should be enough.

well its not, so what are ye gonna do, eh?