see.sense bike lights

Alek

I can tell Dublin bike lights from a mile - they flicker with very high frequency.

Also, I have almost crashed into cyclist coming from the front along the Clontarf bike lane (at least 2-3 times in the night) when their steady front light simply blended with the lights of cars...

tomasrojo

Alek wrote: »

I can tell Dublin bike lights from a mile - they flicker with very high frequency.

Good point! They do too.

GreeBo

Alek wrote: »

Also, I have almost crashed into cyclist coming from the front along the Clontarf bike lane (at least 2-3 times in the night) when their steady front light simply blended with the lights of cars...

Wouldn't that mean that you would have also crashed into that person had they been a motorbike/moped/car?

Also, ROTR state

You must not fit blue or red flashing lights which are solely reserved for Gardaí,
ambulance and other designated service vehicles

Alek

A motorbike coming towards me full speed on a 1m wide separated cycle lane? I'd probably think I'm hallucinating and crash into it alright.

Wishbone Ash

GreeBo wrote: »

....Also, ROTR state

Disregard the ROTR - they're only a lay man's interpretation of the law. For the proper facts you need to consult the Statute Instruments.

S.I. No. 487/2009 - Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 2009 amended the original legislation to allow flashing lights on a pedal bicycle once the light flashes more that 60 times per minute.

Allabaah

There is a 10% discount for Cycling Ireland members for these lights available from their website using the discount code CyclingIreland10

Also video on YouTube ... Very slick!

https://m.youtube.com/user/cyclingtechnology

Allabaah

There is a 10% discount for Cycling Ireland members for these lights available from their website using the discount code CyclingIreland10

Also video on YouTube ... Very slick!

https://m.youtube.com/user/cyclingtechnology

GreeBo

Alek wrote: »

A motorbike coming towards me full speed on a 1m wide separated cycle lane? I'd probably think I'm hallucinating and crash into it alright.

and yet you couldnt see it when it was a bike?
Mad Ted.

If this is such a problem, why dont bikes simply use a different coloured front light? Also, which one of you was heading in the wrong direction on that separated bike lane?

Flashing halogens are very distracting at any frequency, almost as bad as the head/helmet lights/lighthouses that some seem to insist on these days.

Alek

.

Alek

and yet you couldnt see it when it was a bike?

There are two bike paths there, perhaps 1m wide each. Its a long stretch with a gentle turn inward when you are going from the Howth side: https://goo.gl/maps/uUFdQQ5gPi82

In the night you can see car lights all the way, a bike light coming from the Clontarf side simply blends in. It was raining, wet glasses didn't help either.

Also, which one of you was heading in the wrong direction

Neither, we were both going near the middle line between bike paths.

Flashing halogens are very distracting

Depending on intensity they may be indeed.

If this is such a problem, why dont bikes simply use a different coloured front light?

Most people recognize a flashing white / red light as a bicycle straight away - as it became a norm already, there is no need for another colour.

I commute via city centre every day and have a flashing 100lm front light at all times - I noticed that when I forget to take it, the amount of close lefthand turns rises noticeably. A flashing light in your mirror triggers the brain quicker than a silhouette of a cyclist.

traprunner

GreeBo wrote: »

and yet you couldnt see it when it was a bike?
Mad Ted.

If this is such a problem, why dont bikes simply use a different coloured front light? Also, which one of you was heading in the wrong direction on that separated bike lane?

Flashing halogens are very distracting at any frequency, almost as bad as the head/helmet lights/lighthouses that some seem to insist on these days.

I'm all for flashing lights,as a cyclist and motorist. Excellent way of highlighting a bicycle. I don't know what is distracting about them. Like any light you should not be looking directly at them. If a driver notices them then they work. It is up to the driver not to get distracted.

Alanstrainor

What modes are people using on the see.sense? I wish they had names to them... there's one or two that are seizure inducing! I have it set at a more normal frequency high instensity flashing. Which speeds up depending on movement I think. I also think it reacts to headlights from cars, but I'm not too sure!

traprunner

Alanstrainor wrote: »

What modes are people using on the see.sense? I wish they had names to them... there's one or two that are seizure inducing! I have it set at a more normal frequency high instensity flashing. Which speeds up depending on movement I think. I also think it reacts to headlights from cars, but I'm not too sure!

Not sure what mode mine is but I did a vox pop of people in work and they generally agreed on one mode in particular to be noticed. I think it was more like a US cop car the way it alternates between LEDs.

tomasrojo

Alek wrote: »

There are two bike paths there, perhaps 1m wide each. Its a long stretch with a gentle turn inward when you are going from the Howth side: https://goo.gl/maps/uUFdQQ5gPi82

[...]

Neither, we were both going near the middle line between bike paths.

That's a well-known problem with two-way cycle tracks with combined width of less than four metres. People tend to hug the centre line, especially when visibility conditions are bad, so collisions ensue. Less of an illumination problem (though people not using lights at all or weak lights exacerbate the problem) than a problem of substandard design.

GreeBo

traprunner wrote: »

I'm all for flashing lights,as a cyclist and motorist. Excellent way of highlighting a bicycle. I don't know what is distracting about them. Like any light you should not be looking directly at them. If a driver notices them then they work. It is up to the driver not to get distracted.

Flashing lights are designed to get your attention, if your attention is on them then you are distracted.

Alek wrote: »

In the night you can see car lights all the way, a bike light coming from the Clontarf side simply blends in. It was raining, wet glasses didn't help either.

Halo effect wouldnt help alright!

Alek wrote: »

Most people recognize a flashing white / red light as a bicycle straight away - as it became a norm already, there is no need for another colour.

I commute via city centre every day and have a flashing 100lm front light at all times - I noticed that when I forget to take it, the amount of close lefthand turns rises noticeably. A flashing light in your mirror triggers the brain quicker than a silhouette of a cyclist.

Indeed they do, but as you pointed out, unless they are very bright/flashing they blend into the background of much brighter car lights.
And a flashing light, while probably alerting the motorist of your presence, is potentially distracting them from other road users.

traprunner wrote: »

Not sure what mode mine is but I did a vox pop of people in work and they generally agreed on one mode in particular to be noticed. I think it was more like a US cop car the way it alternates between LEDs.

Exactly, flashing lights are there to draw your attention, driving along a cycle lane during commuter time, especially in the rain is hard enough, add to that 10+ flashing halogens on bikes and a few of the lighthouse variety and perhaps some rain and it gets very difficult to focus on everything, the flashing is constantly drawing your attention, its how our brains are wired.

I think a specific colour for a bike lights would help it to be seen but also not constantly distract as flashing lights do.


Really only the rear should need to flash as thats where you are going to get hit from, you should be perfectly visible to oncoming traffic with a constant light. Side by side bike lanes with no median are a silly idea and should be done away with, impossible to get the required clearance.

traprunner

GreeBo wrote: »

Flashing lights are designed to get your attention, if your attention is on them then you are distracted.



Halo effect wouldnt help alright!


Indeed they do, but as you pointed out, unless they are very bright/flashing they blend into the background of much brighter car lights.
And a flashing light, while probably alerting the motorist of your presence, is potentially distracting them from other road users.



Exactly, flashing lights are there to draw your attention, driving along a cycle lane during commuter time, especially in the rain is hard enough, add to that 10+ flashing halogens on bikes and a few of the lighthouse variety and perhaps some rain and it gets very difficult to focus on everything, the flashing is constantly drawing your attention, its how our brains are wired.

I think a specific colour for a bike lights would help it to be seen but also not constantly distract as flashing lights do.


Really only the rear should need to flash as thats where you are going to get hit from, you should be perfectly visible to oncoming traffic with a constant light. Side by side bike lanes with no median are a silly idea and should be done away with, impossible to get the required clearance.

I am capable of acknowledging a flashing light without suffering target fixation. If someone can't do that then they shouldn't be driving/cycling/walking.

Alanstrainor

traprunner wrote: »

Not sure what mode mine is but I did a vox pop of people in work and they generally agreed on one mode in particular to be noticed. I think it was more like a US cop car the way it alternates between LEDs.

I know the one you mean, I'll give it a go!

So I have a question for anyone with a light, when I connect it to my phone, and open the app there's a brightness slider bar that you can change. As you reduce the brightness it obviously reduces on the light. However when I disconnect my phone it seems to go back to full power brightness? And if you connect again the slider is all the way to the right on full, despite setting it lower. I guess it's just a bug...

traprunner

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I know the one you mean, I'll give it a go!

So I have a question for anyone with a light, when I connect it to my phone, and open the app there's a brightness slider bar that you can change. As you reduce the brightness it obviously reduces on the light. However when I disconnect my phone it seems to go back to full power brightness? And if you connect again the slider is all the way to the right on full, despite setting it lower. I guess it's just a bug...

I've noticed that too. I presumed it's a bug too. Which reminds me, I must submit a bug report for it!

cdaly_

GreeBo wrote: »

Really only the rear should need to flash as thats where you are going to get hit from, you should be perfectly visible to oncoming traffic with a constant light. Side by side bike lanes with no median are a silly idea and should be done away with, impossible to get the required clearance.

There's plenty of opportunity to get hit from the front. Typical options are car emerging from a side road or car turning right across you. IMO, in these situations what light you have is less important than your road position. Drivers will be looking for other cars and not at the kerb. I have found that being mid-lane means that they notice me and give way. Left edge of the road, not so much.

tomasrojo

cdaly_ wrote: »

There's plenty of opportunity to get hit from the front. Typical options are car emerging from a side road or car turning right across you. IMO, in these situations what light you have is less important than your road position. Drivers will be looking for other cars and not at the kerb. I have found that being mid-lane means that they notice me and give way. Left edge of the road, not so much.

Off-topic, but both also scenarios where hiviz underperforms, as car lights throw to the left, not towards the cyclist.

Wishbone Ash

GreeBo wrote: »

...Really only the rear should need to flash as thats where you are going to get hit from...

I've been hit from the front several times but never from the rear. Have you never had a vehicle cross your path?

GreeBo

traprunner wrote: »

I am capable of acknowledging a flashing light without suffering target fixation. If someone can't do that then they shouldn't be driving/cycling/walking.

Then you are pretty unique.
There is plenty of evidence to support that a flashing light is a distraction, why do you think emergency vehicles use flashing lights?
Your brain is hardwired to react to change to stay alive, flashing lights are constant changes in your environment and attract your attention. This is great for the person behind the flashing light, not so much for everyone else.
flashing lights are also perceived as brighter to our eyes, couple that with a halogen bulb and the driver who is already surrounded by distractions is, at best going to lump all flashing lights into one.

cdaly_ wrote: »

There's plenty of opportunity to get hit from the front. Typical options are car emerging from a side road or car turning right across you. IMO, in these situations what light you have is less important than your road position. Drivers will be looking for other cars and not at the kerb. I have found that being mid-lane means that they notice me and give way. Left edge of the road, not so much.

Ageed, if I see a car that could emerge on top of me I dont just keep blindly cycling in the same position, I also get ready to stop if required. "He had right of way" will look great on my grave stone.
In any case, wouldnt that be being hit from the side?

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've been hit from the front several times but never from the rear. Have you never had a vehicle cross your path?

someone crossing your path isnt really you being hit from the front, its either you hitting the side of someone or someone t-boning you.
These people would likely hit you no matter what illumination you had, save a car/motorbike type light.

If I see somone waiting to cross my path and I realise that I am not shielded by any cars, I will expect the driver to do something stupid and, as above, take up a safer lane position and more importantly, prepare to stop.
Continuing at 20-30km/h regardless of the road situation is asking for it.

Despite that, there are some situations where no matter what, you are going to get hit. Cars crash into each other and inanimate objects all the time.


I've been a commuting cyclist for 25 years into Dublin city centre and a car driver on the same routes also and the above has kept me accident free over all that time, without ever using a front facing flashing light.
Sam Browne and a bright front light coupled with expecting numpties to act like numpties at every opportunity.

traprunner

Alanstrainor wrote: »

So I have a question for anyone with a light, when I connect it to my phone, and open the app there's a brightness slider bar that you can change. As you reduce the brightness it obviously reduces on the light. However when I disconnect my phone it seems to go back to full power brightness? And if you connect again the slider is all the way to the right on full, despite setting it lower. I guess it's just a bug...

I reported the bug today and they were back to me within an hour or two. It will be fixed in the next firmware update due this week.

HivemindXX

GreeBo wrote: »

Then you are pretty unique.
There is plenty of evidence to support that a flashing light is a distraction, why do you think emergency vehicles use flashing lights?

Surely you don't think it is to cause a distraction right? I don't see how this helps you make the point you are trying to make.

traprunner

GreeBo wrote: »

Then you are pretty unique.
There is plenty of evidence to support that a flashing light is a distraction, why do you think emergency vehicles use flashing lights?

Your brain is hardwired to react to change to stay alive, flashing lights are constant changes in your environment and attract your attention. This is great for the person behind the flashing light, not so much for everyone else.
flashing lights are also perceived as brighter to our eyes, couple that with a halogen bulb and the driver who is already surrounded by distractions is, at best going to lump all flashing lights into one.

I don't think I'm unique at all. I just drive, cycle and walk with some care. While I acknowledge that there are many idiots that don't, I think that most do and therefore have no issue with flashing lights.

Emergency vehicles use flashing lights to get noticed, not to distract. I do likewise on the bike. I can think of nothing worse while cycling than a 2 ton plus vehicle not noticing me and ploughing into me.

I'd like to see the research you go on about about. Especially if flashing lights at best get lumped into one.

I've genuinely never had the issues you describe when driving/cycling or walking. I don't end up staring at a flashing lights. I don't stare at non-flashing lights either. I've yet to have an accident (touch wood). I am aware of who and what is around me when driving because I concentrate on the task at hand.

Alanstrainor

I must keep an eye on my battery life, I've torn through 50% of a fully charged battery yesterday with only 1 hours usage. Granted I would assume it was using a power hungry light option (constant, with flash). But still!

traprunner

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I must keep an eye on my battery life, I've torn through 50% of a fully charged battery yesterday with only 1 hours usage. Granted I would assume it was using a power hungry light option (constant, with flash). But still!

I've used mine for for 3 hours and still at about 58%.

traprunner

Firmware v26 is available. I was on v24 for some reason. I didn't think I missed an update in-between.

Alanstrainor

I've been on 26 for the last while. The app should really notify you of firmware updates, the only way to know if there is an update is to reflash the light with the existing firmware... It should be part of a loop to ascertain whether the update is later than the one on the light, and then proceed to update if it is...

traprunner

Firmware 27 is now available.