Are relational abbreviations txt spk?

Mrs OBumble

It's well known that "txt spk" is not allowed on boards.ie.

But there are a set of relational abbreviations that I've known about for a lot longer than I've had a cellphone with SMS short-message service capabilities viz: OH, DS, DD, BF, GF. MIL, SIL, etc.

I don't use them myself - not because they're "txt spk", but because of the way they impose patterns on relationships that I don't particularly like.

But I've recently seen someone else warned for using them, while I'm sure they're fine on other forums.

So I'm wondering what other people think, are the relational abbreviations also banned?

Tokyo

I consider myself pretty computer literate, and have been a part of various message boards for years, from the days of BBS, and I still had to google what DH, DD and DS were in the last year - from what I gather, they originate from mumsnet type sites, and aren't overly prolific in other fora.

The reason that text speak in general is banned is that for many people it can make a post almost impossible to read, particularly the less tech savvy, or people with reading difficulties. And to be honest, if a poster isn't invested enough in their post to make the effort to make it somewhat legible, then it's hard to expect anybody responding to do likewise. Particularly so in forums where the relationships discussed are important to the context of the thread (Personal/Relationship Issues, Parenting, Accommodation & Property, Long Term Illness to name but a few), using internet abbreviations such as DH, DD, MIL and so on can render comprehension of the thread extremely difficult for a lot of people, and as such I have no problem with lumping it in with txt spk in terms of asking posters not to use it - indeed, we regularly do so in PI.

P. Breathnach

I don't think they can be classed as text-speak, but I think they are equally confusing for run-of-the-mill posters here.

This is the viewpoint of a curmudgeon: I don't use smileys or internet initialisms either. English suffices for me.

The_Conductor

If you toss a DS or an AD into an otherwise intelligible post- when referring to a specific person- its only natural that any sane person will assume you are referring to the person using their initials.........?? We're not all up to speed on Mumsnet abreviations and acronyms- and frankly- why would someone randomly toss them into a post in the accommodation and property forum?

Also- if you have an issue with my moderation- starting a feedback thread here- to see if you can drum up support for your viewpoint- is hardly an appropriate way to address it- you could have just PM'ed me you know............

Oink

I would personally accept OH, BF as handy abbreviations, while I hate txtspk.

I can understand why some people might not like them, however I would suggest allowing the more common ones, in moderation. Just tell posters to take it easy if they are overdoing it or using unusual ones.

mirrorwall14

Oink wrote: »

I would personally accept OH, BF as handy abbreviations, while I hate txtspk.

I can understand why some people might not like them, however I would suggest allowing the more common ones, in moderation. Just tell posters to take it easy if they are overdoing it or using unusual ones.

Id be the same. I would actually be guilty of using OH fairly regularly to be honest. And it came from an online gaming chat that had nothing to do with parenting or anything. There's usually a pretty big difference between a post in text speak and a post that uses one or two shortened phrases like rofl or tbh

Will I Amnt

The_Conductor wrote: »

Also- if you have an issue with my moderation- starting a feedback thread here- to see if you can drum up support for your viewpoint- is hardly an appropriate way to address it- you could have just PM'ed me you know............

It's in everybody's interest to be fair. I would never have thought I could be warned for abbreviations anywhere on this site.

The_Conductor

I can just imagine my parents' reaction to that - They would tell me in no uncertain terms. I got myself in the sh1t - I can get myself out of it too. I would be telling DS to get his backside in gear and get a job to start paying his Mum and Dad back.

Its the accommodation and property forum. I read the above to be identifying the protagonist by his initials DS- and warned the person that identifying people was not acceptable. I am not familiar with the lexicon of Mumsnet (or at least I wasn't- before this)- and frankly- I don't see why I should be. If it was the parenting forum- or a related forum- perhaps I might have thought a little out of the box- and googled it- instead of presuming they were identifying the protagonist.........

The_Morrigan

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It's in everybody's interest to be fair. I would never have thought I could be warned for abbreviations anywhere on this site.

To give context to this - there was an on thread warning not to use txt spk, including abbreviations for relations. The moderators of the forum saw a communication issue arising with these abbreviations and asked for them not to be used.

Txt spk is also no longer just associated with sending text messages, it is now defined as encompassing other forms of digital communication - email, instant messaging, private messages, forums etc.

textspeak
[tekst-speek]

noun, Digital Technology, Informal.
1.
a form of written language as used in text messages and other digital communications, characterized by many abbreviations and typically not following standard grammar, spelling, punctuation, and style.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/text-speak

Straylight

Oink wrote: »

I would personally accept OH, BF as handy abbreviations, while I hate txtspk.

I agree, even though I don't use them myself. It's the DH, DS, DD, etc. crap that really bugs me. In normal speech nobody refers to their "dear husband", "dear son", etc., as it sounds moronic, so why should it be acceptable here?

The_Conductor

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Id be the same. I would actually be guilty of using OH fairly regularly to be honest. And it came from an online gaming chat that had nothing to do with parenting or anything. There's usually a pretty big difference between a post in text speak and a post that uses one or two shortened phrases like rofl or tbh

Rofl or tbh- are not primarily used on Mumsnet- they are widely used and everyone will recognise them. However- they are text speak- and technically- disallowed. However- along with the 3 people in this thread using terms primarily used on Mumsnet- which were open to misinterpretation they are also text speak.

I'm bowing out of this right here and now- because- to be quite frank- I'm seriously pissed off. I am unfollowing this thread. If anyone wants to contact me- please PM me.

Regards,

The_Conductor

Oink

Ok I originally thought we were having a discussion about a generic topic, which is why I gave my 2 cents. If we are in fact discussing a mod's decision I am taking my marbles back and going home.

Mrs OBumble

This is not a thread about anybody's moderation - if I had concerns about that, I would have PM'd a CMOD.

It is clearly a thread asking about general opinions about what I believe to be commonly used abbreviations. As common as "PM", in fact. It was started mainly so I could modify my own practise if people in general believe that these abbreviations are in fact txt-spk.

I have no idea what "Mumsnet" is - I first met the abbreviations on a paper-crafting BBS. And I'm sure I've seen them fairly regularly used in certain forums on boards.ie (eg Weddings and Civil Partnerships).

P. Breathnach

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

... It is clearly a thread asking about general opinions about what I believe to be commonly used abbreviations. As common as "PM", in fact. It was started mainly so I could modify my own practise if people in general believe that these abbreviations are in fact txt-spk....

I don't think they are anything like as commonly-used as your chosen comparison, PM. I find them in only one of several forums I use, and it looks to me as if the main users I encounter are American women.

I confess to finding them irksome, because of their cutesy quality.

As an aside, think nobody in the thread that provoked your question thought of the young man involved as a "dear son" - not even his own father in the context of the discussion.

Orion

I'm going to guess it's Parenting you're talking about.

It's explained quite clearly in the charter:

Posting in "TxtSpk"
Please don't do this, enough said.
This includes forum abbreviations such as DD, DS, OH etc. They make reading the forums difficult for those new to them. The parenting forum has been set up to be as inclusive as possible for anyone who is involved with rearing children and we hope to keep it that way. These acronyms are both cliquey and pointless.

Cliquey in that if you're part of the crowd you'll know them and if you don't get them you'll feel like an outsider. This forum is inclusive and these acronyms are not - so don't use them.

Pointless: As J.M. Dodd, Chief Internet Officer of Offbeat Empire said, "Acronyming saves you seconds, and costs readers minutes as they try to translate." - so don't use them. E.g "Son" is three characters, DS is two. Take the time to write the word that everyone understands.

[edit]read the rest of the thread and ok it's not Parenting but the our charter quote still explains it quite well.

efb

I can't abide D- stuff

Pat Mustard

The only person that I know who uses textspeak is my mother! :eek:

That mumsnet stuff looks quite daft altogether. Nobody I know uses it.

Lia_lia

Straylight wrote: »

I agree, even though I don't use them myself. It's the DH, DS, DD, etc. crap that really bugs me. In normal speech nobody refers to their "dear husband", "dear son", etc., as it sounds moronic, so why should it be acceptable here?

Exactly! I didn't know what DD, DS etc was until a few days ago. For all I knew it referred to bra sizes. "Dear" whatever does sound really silly. It annoys me as much as text speak.

Tokyo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As common as "PM", in fact. It was started mainly so I could modify my own practise if people in general believe that these abbreviations are in fact txt-spk.

That's not really a like for like comparison though - PM is used prolifically throughout the site, including forum charters and site FAQ, and as such is pretty much ingrained in the forum as a whole. Terms like DD, DH and so on are not - they are more at home on pregnancy, parenting and TTC (trying to conceive) forums for some reason, not so common elsewhere.

Besides making my eyes bleed, txt spk, l33t spk, whatever you want to call it can make posts damn difficult to follow, particularly in threads that are fast moving, or require some consideration so as to give a helpful and accurate response to the person posting. As to what constitutes txt spk and what doesn't - well quite obviously it's impractical to draw up a definitive list of banned phrases, so it has to come down in part to the moderator's discretion as to whether it makes the post too difficult to decipher for a reasonable percentage of people - if a post has aneurism inducing number of abbreviations, or the abbreviations being used are working against the post for the most part, then I think it's fair to step in. For me, DD, DS, DH all fall in to that category and are probably even less intuitive than things like PM because they don't reflect natural speech, so even someone who cottons on to the fact that it's an abbreviation of some sort, cant easily infer from the letters what it might mean.

I haven't come across a situation yet where a first time poster was smited by an almighty blow of the ban hammer straight away for using txt spk, any time it becomes prolific in a thread then a moderator usually steps in to request that it not be used. But if a moderator has asked in thread not to use txt spk, and somebody continues to post that she's just had a row with her OH, because she's a FTM and is finding it difficult to take care of her DD because her DH is refusing to help out, well then it's a no-brainer if action is taken IMO... sorry... in my opinion, because the mod warning was ignored.

The_Morrigan

mike_ie wrote: »

........
I haven't come across a situation yet where a first time poster was smited by an almighty blow of the ban hammer straight away for using txt spk, any time it becomes prolific in a thread then a moderator usually steps in to request that it not be used. But if a moderator has asked in thread not to use txt spk, and somebody continues to post that she's just had a row with her OH, because she's a FTM and is finding it difficult to take care of her DD because her DH is refusing to help out, well then it's a no-brainer if action is taken IMO... sorry... in my opinion, because the mod warning was ignored.

I have absolutely no idea what you just said there!!

Today we had an explicit instruction that txt spk was not to be used and I specified that it included all the DD DS stuff....it was ignored. The mods dealt with it then.

This wasn't a case where people where banned for something they weren't warned about.

Faith

efb wrote: »

I can't abide D- stuff

I'm the same. Whatever about actual acronyms that reflect real-life phrases (tbh for to be honest, SIL for sister-in-law), DD, DS and DH make me feel like someone has just scraped nails down a blackboard. They're so saccharin and they're almost always used in contexts where the person in question is not being 'darling' at all. E.G. 'I'm so angry. My DS got brought home by the police at 3 am, drunk and high, and my DH thought it was hilarious". Nobody would verbally describe their son/daughter/husband as 'darling' every time they spoke to others about them, so why do it online?

I'd like DH, DS, DD and anything of that ilk to be permanently banned from the whole universe, but sadly I don't have that power.

Mrs OBumble

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what you just said there!!

Today we had an explicit instruction that txt spk was not to be used and I specified that it included all the DD DS stuff....it was ignored. The mods dealt with it then.

This thread is not about that thread.

It's about the abbreviations issue in general, and what a wide variety of people believe is the case.

I clearly recall when I started using boards.ie, that I had to research what "PM" meant - but already knew OH, the D's, and many of the standard TLAs used in note-taking.

I didn't know what they were till recently either and reading DS or DD makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

PM, TBH, IMO, etc are sound as they have context but Darling Daugher/Darling Son? Should be LS (little sh1ts) a more realistic description. ;-)

The_Morrigan

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This thread is not about that thread.

It's about the abbreviations issue in general, and what a wide variety of people believe is the case.

I clearly recall when I started using boards.ie, that I had to research what "PM" meant - but already knew OH, the D's, and many of the standard TLAs used in note-taking.

My point was that we decided it was to be categorised as txt spk and therefore banned because it makes it impossible to comprehend the posts. Akin to what mike_ie wrote in his...I've absolutely no idea what it said and I'm not going to allow a thread be derailed by questions about what does this mean?

Tasden

Faith wrote: »

I'm the same. Whatever about actual acronyms that reflect real-life phrases (tbh for to be honest, SIL for sister-in-law), DD, DS and DH make me feel like someone has just scraped nails down a blackboard. They're so saccharin and they're almost always used in contexts where the person in question is not being 'darling' at all. E.G. 'I'm so angry. My DS got brought home by the police at 3 am, drunk and high, and my DH thought it was hilarious". Nobody would verbally describe their son/daughter/husband as 'darling' every time they spoke to others about them, so why do it online?

The first few times I saw it used I actually thought, for this reason, that it was being said sarcastically. The rants were always about their husband being not so pleasant so I assumed the DH was a sarcastic term used when they were annoyed. I have since realised I was wrong but still continue to assume they are saying it in a sarcastic tone

Gordon

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So I'm wondering what other people think, are the relational abbreviations also banned?

Do other people think they are banned or should be banned? If it's the former, check charter and/or mod of forum. Latter: yes. IMO

Until these acronyms become ingrained in a large portion/majority of users, it just confuses people.

5starpool

Abbreviations like imo, tbh, lol have been used widely on boards for years and so in my mind they are generally exceptions to the rule. It took about 2/3 the way through this thread before I figured out with the DH, DD, etc stuff was. Text speak in general should be shot (if it were physically possible) but it's something that over the years has been handled very well I think in terms of not allowing it to be used on the site.

If someone was being warned for use of imo, for example, then given the amount of use that has had on the site over the years I'd think it's a bit harsh (I was going to write OTT!), but I understand that not everyone will understand even those which are to me in common use on here, so at times it may be necessary to so something like that.

riffmongous

Or people could just type 'what does DH stand for' into google the same way most people have to find out what OP stands for when you start on forums, it's still not even clear what OP stands for imo, with the meaning changing from post to poster

Neyite

In some parenting fora -especially in trying to conceive, the regulars can sometimes slip into a type of short hand, a lot of the tests and procedures involve the recognised medical shorthand - like HSG (hysterosalpingogram) FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) are just two examples that are a pain to type out. I don't mind so much that Cervical Mucus becomes CM, or that Ovulation Predictor Kits become OPK but its when Sex becomes BD (baby-dance) or DTD (Doing the Deed) or DH, DD, DS, crop up because then its not shorthand for something that is recognisable in everyday conversation, its cliquey speak, and exclusionary.

As a mod, a general on thread reminder for me is sufficient, but if someone persists then I'm not going to go to the bother of translating their posts, I'll just delete it.

On one of the aforementioned websites they not only use DH, DD DS but also use STBXH, DFIL, DMIL, DPIL, DSS, DSD, DF, DM, DB, DSIS, DXPIL, DGM, DGD, etc and I didn't understand them for ages, even now I have to have a think about it. The Dear or Darling part of the abbreviation makes me cringe in the same way as text speak would. To answer your question are relational abbreviations text speak? In my opinion, yes. They are not acronyms, or proper words, they are a form of invented shorthand just like text speak.

mirrorwall14

Some have become pretty prevalent though I do agree with the people who have said that DH/DS/DD etc are sickeningly sweet.

However OH (other half), BF (boyfriend), MIL (mother in law) are definitely abbreviations and are becoming very common

Orion

riffmongous wrote: »

Or people could just type 'what does DH stand for' into google the same way

NOMW