Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

dfx-

dublinstevie wrote: »

The 13 doesnt go to the airport

The terminus is about 50m from the main runway. It may not serve the airport, but is the term 'by the airport' ok instead...

cdebru wrote: »

Theres no 16:40 either so putting on my dearstalker hat and doing my best sherlock Holmes impression he meant the 16 from Grange road at 16:40 to the airport. Elementary old boy.

Apologies Mr. Holmes, I meant the 1648 ex-Grange Castle. Though you could indeed change it to the 16 and the same applies.

AlekSmart

steddyeddy wrote: »

Says the guy who thanked a post accusing another poster of spending all income on cigarettes and booze.

You can't say I'm not ecumenically minded

paulosam

David086 wrote: »

Have to agre with regards to the 13 from Grange Castle to town. An extremely poor planned route imo. During rush hour it can take 90 mins from town to Clondalkin. Increase the frequency of the 69 or return the 51s!

25 mins stuck crawling along from Bluebell (where the bus lane from the Naas Road worthlessly merges into a single lane) down the Tyrconnell Road at peak time alone, then getting stuck again at Old Kilmainham. Sickening paying so much for such a badly planned (if planned at all) service.

cdebru

paulosam wrote: »

25 mins stuck crawling along from Bluebell (where the bus lane from the Naas Road worthlessly merges into a single lane) down the Tyrconnell Road at peak time alone, then getting stuck again at Old Kilmainham. Sickening paying so much for such a badly planned (if planned at all) service.

Do you have an alternative route that avoids all this traffic, but can still serve the population of the areas currently served by the route ?

Calina

paulosam wrote: »

25 mins stuck crawling along from Bluebell (where the bus lane from the Naas Road worthlessly merges into a single lane) down the Tyrconnell Road at peak time alone, then getting stuck again at Old Kilmainham. Sickening paying so much for such a badly planned (if planned at all) service.

The issue is not the bus route, it is the design of Dublin urban areas. Dublin Bus are hamstrung by this.

AlekSmart

paulosam wrote: »

25 mins stuck crawling along from Bluebell (where the bus lane from the Naas Road worthlessly merges into a single lane) down the Tyrconnell Road at peak time alone, then getting stuck again at Old Kilmainham. Sickening paying so much for such a badly planned (if planned at all) service.

A bit of oul "Shared Running" between Luas/Bus would work wonders here.....bit to blatently forren for our administrators though.....:rolleyes:

cdebru

Calina wrote: »

The issue is not the bus route, it is the design of Dublin urban areas. Dublin Bus are hamstrung by this.

Why dont they buy helicopters instead of expensive buses that are stuck behind private cars ?

schemingbohemia

dfx- wrote: »

Where the problem lies in the service is the butchered arterial cross-city routes where you would think more effort is worth it to DB. The service level on the 4, 16, 13, 39A, 15 and 145 is terrible. To be waiting the scheduled 20-30 minutes for any of these routes (or 60 minutes for the 4) is ridiculous from a customer perspective, before you add reliability issues around how long the routes are.

Where are you getting the 60 minutes for the 4 from? Aren't they every 15 minutes?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/4/

LXFlyer

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Where are you getting the 60 minutes for the 4 from? Aren't they every 15 minutes?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/4/

Take a look at the Sunday service.

dfx-

Calina wrote: »

The issue is not the bus route, it is the design of Dublin urban areas. Dublin Bus are hamstrung by this.

The two routes are ok (old 13s and 51B/C). But when you add that blockage to Kilmainham and Westmoreland St and Dorset St and the demand for DCU all to the same route? The issue is putting it all in one route, rather than two. Especially if you don't have sufficient resources to operate that amalgamated route.

I was on a 46A last night, a route that should suffer the same problem of pinch points and length (Phibsboro, Westmoreland St., UCD). Usually GTs on Sundays too and huge luggage loads on Sunday nights. But because it's Christmas, the VTs are out and the extra capacity solved it all. A three quarters full VT.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are awful in most ways. They seriously overcharge for an inferior service. I discovered before that a 15 min walk will save you roughly 3 euro in DB fares, that is the cost of your average chicken roll.

The train will charge you 20 euro for an hour-long journey. If you are not one of the first people on the train you will stand. Awful.

Aard

Sometimes the trade-off between a busfare and the door-to-door walking time will mean that it makes more sense to walk. That is how transport demand management works.

S.R.

Price of oil is falling for last few months but bus fares are hiked again. WTF?!?!

end of the road

Marcus Salmon Meadow wrote: »

The train will charge you 20 euro for an hour-long journey. If you are not one of the first people on the train you will stand. Awful.

standing on a train is common everywhere, hmost countries will ensure the fleet can cope. and in ireland depending on what route you travel you will have a train capible of taking standing passengers. the trains on the kildare/portlaoise commuter services wouldn't be designed for standing room compared to those on the maynooth and droghida/dundalk services for example.

end of the road

S.R. wrote: »

Price of oil is falling for last few months but bus fares are hiked again. WTF?!?!

that can happen. it will probably be to do with whatever way dublin bus purchase their diesel. probably the same way most companies do it, bulk buy in advance, meaning the price won't fluctuate like it does in a normal situation. someone will know

Aard

Bus fares do not correlate with oil prices. It's a tad more complex than that.

S.R.

end of the road wrote: »

that can happen. it will probably be to do with whatever way dublin bus purchase their diesel. probably the same way most companies do it, bulk buy in advance, meaning the price won't fluctuate like it does in a normal situation. someone will know

OK, but surely one day their bulk bought diesel will finish and they will buy diesel made of cheaper oil. Will they drop fares, what do you think?

S.R.

Aard wrote: »

Bus fares do not correlate with oil prices. It's a tad more complex than that.

Do not correlate at all??? It's hard to believe.
Then why companies are quick to raise prices once oil price goes up?

Tar.Aldarion

Before and after work it is faster to walk than to use the bus for me, what a joke!

I cycle to work in 15 minutes and the bus takes over an hour. Prices go up, nothing improves. It's a problem with driving in Dublin city though, nothing the buses can do to go faster.

end of the road

S.R. wrote: »

OK, but surely one day their bulk bought diesel will finish and they will buy diesel made of cheaper oil. Will they drop fares, what do you think?

why would they. the only way fares would drop is if the government vastly increase the subsidy in exchange for such decreases. not going to happen

Icepick

I have yet to experience worse bus service in Europe.
Does any other system use the laughable journey time estimates on time tables for example?
Now with realtime tracking stats they don't have an excuse not to use more accurate estimates for individual stops.

cdebru

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Before and after work it is faster to walk than to use the bus for me, what a joke!

I cycle to work in 15 minutes and the bus takes over an hour. Prices go up, nothing improves. It's a problem with driving in Dublin city though, nothing the buses can do to go faster.

They already have dropped fares, not all fares went up some went down.

Aard

S.R. wrote: »

Do not correlate at all??? It's hard to believe.
Then why companies are quick to raise prices once oil price goes up?

The latest fare revision included fare deacreases as well as increases. By extending the children's fare to 18 year-olds, that counts as a decrease. The second-leg discount is a decrease. Fare increases/decreases are complex and cannot be changed on a whim. They are changed once a year and take many variables into account. At the moment DB are streamlining their fare system (or rather, the NTA is doing it) atm so that it is more balanced and user-friendly.

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

The latest fare revision included fare deacreases as well as increases. By extending the children's fare to 18 year-olds, that counts as a decrease. The second-leg discount is a decrease. Fare increases/decreases are complex and cannot be changed on a whim. They are changed once a year and take many variables into account. At the moment DB are streamlining their fare system (or rather, the NTA is doing it) atm so that it is more balanced and user-friendly.

A substantial number of my long term regular customers (+10 years daily commuters) switched to Leapcard over the past 12 months....

These folks have seen their daily Busfare decrease from €2.60 cash to firstly €2.15 and now €2.05 Leap.

These folks are quite happy,in fact very happy that their daily Busfare spend has dropped from €5.20 to €4.10.

It's part of our "hard-to-live" psyche I think,to virtually ignore,any and all,positive elements and focus loudly instead on the negatives.

The introduction of the 4-13 Stage amalgamation has been a great success and full marks to the NTA for pushing it through.

The 15+ Child Leapcard is another seriously attractive Public Transport initiative,yet it's target market remain somewhat lackadaisical about it,until faced with a €3.30 Fare demand when they could have paid 75c....nothing like a demonstration of stuff to underline it's worth.

However....I was told by one lad recently,that his parents would not permit him to register for the 15+ Child Leapcard because they disagreed with the requirement to register on civil-liberty grounds.....the lad himself had no objection,but Mater & Pater apparently wear tin-foil hats.

My advice to him was,if it saves YOU money,go for it,unless the parents offer to increase their subsidy.....;)

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

Sometimes the trade-off between a busfare and the door-to-door walking time will mean that it makes more sense to walk. That is how transport demand management works.

I try to remind many of the more exicitable posters and customers alike,that Public Transport may not always be their most appropriate method of getting around (unless determined to find something to give-out about ?).

Few people appear to realize that a core-element of the National Transport Authority's draft strategy is to develop and improve alternatives such as :eek:WALKING :eek: & Cycling.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Draft_Transport_Strategy_for_the_Greater_Dublin_Area_2011-2030.pdf

Walking and cycling can contribute to the health and wellbeing of GDA residents and the communities they live in. The Strategy needs to identify how walking and cycling can be encouraged, including for
leisure and recreational purposes

Tar.Aldarion

Aard wrote: »

The latest fare revision included fare deacreases as well as increases. By extending the children's fare to 18 year-olds, that counts as a decrease. The second-leg discount is a decrease. Fare increases/decreases are complex and cannot be changed on a whim. They are changed once a year and take many variables into account. At the moment DB are streamlining their fare system (or rather, the NTA is doing it) atm so that it is more balanced and user-friendly.

I was looking at the prices that went down, what are these second leg trips or an xpresso?

Aard

If you make a second journey within a certain amount of time (not sure off-hand) you will now get a €1 discount on the second journey.

LXFlyer

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I was looking at the prices that went down, what are these second leg trips or an xpresso?

Aard wrote: »

If you make a second journey within a certain amount of time (not sure off-hand) you will now get a €1 discount on the second journey.

The €1 discount actually applies to the second or any further trip that you start within 90 minutes of the first starting.

Tar.Aldarion

Cool thanks. you have to show your ticket to get this or get a special ticket? How about on leap cards? Ok I better go read the site really

punisher5112

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Cool thanks. you have to show your ticket to get this or get a special ticket? How about on leap cards? Ok I better go read the site really

The discount is applied automatically by the ticket machine.

LXFlyer

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Cool thanks. you have to show your ticket to get this or get a special ticket? How about on leap cards? Ok I better go read the site really

It only applies to journeys using the LEAP card pay-as-you-go epurse.

AlekSmart

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Cool thanks. you have to show your ticket to get this or get a special ticket? How about on leap cards? Ok I better go read the site really

It is but ONE,of the now many,reasons for possessing a Leapcard.

The €1 rebate is on all subsequent Bus Journeys made with 90 Minutes of the initial one.

After that 90 mins expires then the system reset's and will apply the discount from the next Journey made.

It is important to note that from early 2015 (Feb?) this discount will become multi-operator and available across Luas,Dart,Commuter Rail and BE commuter.

While it will also be available on the Private Sector services such as Matthews,Wexford Bus,Swords Express,I'm not certain of the start-date in their cases.

The basic message is "Switch To Leapcard-The CHEAP Card)

In reality,what we are now increasingly finding,is that those remaining cash-payers,tend to be of a group which may never be satisfied by anything,except the opportunity for a good oul grumble :rolleyes:

Tar.Aldarion

Great thanks, very handy for my card to do that, good system.

Cilar

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is important to note that from early 2015 (Feb?) this discount will become multi-operator and available across Luas,Dart,Commuter Rail and BE commuter.

Are there details on this already?

AlekSmart

Cilar wrote: »

Are there details on this already?

Some of the basics here...

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/second-journey-discount-of-e1-00-with-leap-card-on-dublin-bus/

The Authority will roll out the Leap 90 Discount to other public transport services in early 2015, so when users transfer between modes, they will also benefit from the discount on their second trip.

maninasia

Ardeehey wrote: »

I think Dublin Bus generally provide a good service, ok some buses can be irregular but I have never waited in Donnybrook for a bus into town for 30 minutes in my life. There are about 5 different routes through Donnybrook, during the week buses like the 46a is every 6-8 minutes on average! Cost wise I find it inline with the transport costs of other capital cities, get a LEAP card.

It's a ridiculous rip-off for junky filled vehicles. I pay 50 cents for a bus trips in the capital city I work in, with no junkies thrown in and better and more frequent buses. Irish people are so easy to extract money from, the fare goes up 5% or 10% a year and most don't bat an eyelid, they just pay and pay. Eejits. Ah but it's cheaper with the Leap, even though it goes up 5-10% a year. Do the calculations and realise how much you are overpaying. Oh yeah and I've been using the local version of the Leap card on all transport services for 10 plus years. You'll get one in 2015 and be all happy with your leap discount after they put the price up ....again. I pay 20% more now for the bus than 10 years ago.

You pay....[URL DELETED]

and you pay...

annual ticket...

2011: €1,230
2012: €1,420 (15.5% increase)
2013: €1,560 (9.9% increase)
2014: €1,710 (9.6% increase)
2015: €1,864? (assuming a 9% increase)
2016: €2,032? (assuming another 9% increase)[/url]

maninasia

Ardeehey wrote: »

I think Dublin Bus generally provide a good service, ok some buses can be irregular but I have never waited in Donnybrook for a bus into town for 30 minutes in my life. There are about 5 different routes through Donnybrook, during the week buses like the 46a is every 6-8 minutes on average! Cost wise I find it inline with the transport costs of other capital cities, get a LEAP card.

Okay some buses can be irregular...or simply drive by you...or not turn up at all.

That'll be 2.80 euro please.

end of the road

maninasia wrote: »

It's a ridiculous rip-off for junky filled vehicles. I pay 50 cents for a bus trips in the capital city I work in, with no junkies thrown in and better and more frequent buses. Irish people are so easy to extract money from, the fare goes up 5% or 10% a year and most don't bat an eyelid, they just pay and pay. Eejits. Ah but it's cheaper with the Leap, even though it goes up 5-10% a year. Do the calculations and realise how much you are overpaying.

because fares never go up anywhere else right? while we'd all love to only pay a few cents for a bus journey to wherever we like in the country, the reality is its not going to happen as it can't. no government is going to pay out a high enough subsidy to allow it to happen and if they did god help us with the rabel rabel we'd have to deal with. a lot of people everywhere think they are overpaying for public transport, that thought is not unique to ireland.

S.R.

end of the road wrote: »

because fares never go up anywhere else right? while we'd all love to only pay a few cents for a bus journey to wherever we like in the country, the reality is its not going to happen as it can't. no government is going to pay out a high enough subsidy to allow it to happen and if they did god help us with the rabel rabel we'd have to deal with. a lot of people everywhere think they are overpaying for public transport, that thought is not unique to ireland.

Don't say if you don't know. Since 1st of January 2013 public transport in Tallinn is FREE for those who live and are registered in Tallinn.

Similar story in Riga. Authorities there REDUCED fares and I will not be surprised if they make it FREE like in Tallinn.

Some people here are right: Irish people are easy ride and swallow whatever is pushed down their throats by government.

end of the road

S.R. wrote: »

Since 1st of January 2013 public transport in Tallinn is FREE for those who live and are registered in Tallinn.

Similar story in Riga. Authorities there REDUCED fares and I will not be surprised if they make it FREE like in Tallinn.

great. fantastic. how is it being payed for?

S.R. wrote: »

Some people here are right: Irish people are easy ride and swallow whatever is pushed down their throats by government.

well i'm not one of them. i'm giving you the reality of how things are in ireland. ireland couldn't afford to pay a large enough subsidy to have free public transport for everyone even if the government wanted to, which they don't. not only that but we'd probably have a huge deal being made out of it meaning such a large subsidy could become untenable.

punisher5112

It seems to be a huge hole we have been left in by previous government.

Free travel for pensioners is fine as most would have contributed to society also disabled and impaired etc.

But the ones that should not have ever been given passes and the tons of fraudsters that are travelling for free should be stamped out.

We all pay for these wasters as I would call them including transport staff as we are the ones that have to deal with them also while they get anywhere and everywhere they want at our expense.

Carawaystick

end of the road wrote: »

great. fantastic. how is it being payed for?

.

Water charges;)

In Pyrenees Orientals department in France the co council subsidise the coach service so the equivalent of bus Éireann services are a euro
Perpignan city doesn't subsidise city bus services as much
So these shorter trips are dearer

Aard

For every city/region that offers cheap public transport, there's a counter example of where it is expensive.

If you look at any OECD or EU stats on inflation, transport is generally one of the higher levels of inflation, no matter the country. A developed country with an average level of inflation of 2% might still see transport price inflation of 7% or more. That's part of averaging.

The Tallinn free travel has been studied to show that it had insignificant impact in terms of increasing passenger numbers. While reducing fares slightly can have a positive impact on ridership numbers, reducing fares beyond a certain point (in this case to zero) leads to diminishing returns.

Lucena

lxflyer wrote: »

Virtually every bus now has announcements on board for every single stop.


Every new bus has electronic displays showing the next stop.

Just back from Dublin, and this was my experience:

From the airport into town (n° 16 bus IIRC) there were announcements for the stops, and no electronic display. The announcements weren't very clear, but they were there. The bus driver was an absolute gent, though. We were staying off the top of O'Connell Street, so told us where to get off, and also took a bit of time to help a young French couple with directions to their hotel.

Got the 41 from the city centre to the airport a week later. Driver seemed a bit gruff when we got on. However lots of foreigners, between non-native English speakers living in Ireland to a massive group of young Spanish tourists, got on the bus, and in spite of much confusion regarding prices (or so it seemed from where I was sitting) he remained calm and neutral. I know it's his job, but still, it must be hard.

No electronic display and no stops announced.

We were staying in the Carlton, so when we were getting near the airport, we asked him to drop us off at the stop nearest to the hotel. He actually dropped us off directly outside, even though there's no official stop there!

So I'd had to say I'm quite admirative of the drivers (Well done lads!!) who went above and beyond the call of duty, but still seem to get a lot of bad press, in spite of the fact that they do a good job under difficult circumstances.

Where I live in France, city bus drivers drive buses, and generally don't have to deal with money (apart from the odd single-journey ticket, sold at a standard price) or worry about people not paying. It'd certainly make Dublin Bus drivers' job a lot easier if that was the case in Dublin.

n97 mini

The announcements for the stops are hit and miss, with quite a lot of misses. Where there are two lines in a stop name, only one gets announced: Leixlip Road, Spa Hotel just gets announced as "Leixlip Road", no mention of the hotel. In other cases the stop description is poor, e.g. "Leixlip Waterworks" should be "Leixlip Salmon Leap Inn"

As we're being encouraged to use the bus stop numbers (as part of the RTPI etc) use really should be made of them by the onboard information system.

In London the stop name/description is actually on the stop along with it's number (which is usually a letter) and the onboard announcements match the name on the stop.

AlekSmart

Lucena wrote: »

So I'd had to say I'm quite admirative of the drivers (Well done lads!!) who went above and beyond the call of duty, but still seem to get a lot of bad press, in spite of the fact that they do a good job under difficult circumstances.

Where I live in France, City bus drivers drive buses, and generally don't have to deal with money (apart from the odd single-journey ticket, sold at a standard price) or worry about people not paying. It'd certainly make Dublin Bus drivers' job a lot easier if that was the case in Dublin.

Good post Lucena,and well made points

I have some Bus Driver accquaintances in France,Germany and Belgium,who after spending a few Busdrivers holidays in Dublin have made exactly the same point.

The French lads in particular,are incredulous at the amount of interaction a DublinBus driver is required to have AT EVERY STOP with customers and assorted other folks.

thomasj

I didn't expect this but I got a reply to complaint I made a while back. Better than expected.

Dear

You contacted us recently with a complaint you had about our service. While we acknowledged your complaint, we have been unable to progress the issue to a full resolution due to a technical problem with our complaints system which has resulted in full responses to customers being delayed.

We are conscious that extended delays in responding to complaints can often exacerbate the situation, so I would like to outline what action we are taking to improve bus services and in this way, clarify how the reasons which generated your complaint are being dealt with at source.

Dublin Bus has in recent months made significant progress in improving the operation of bus services. Since September, we have recruited 120 additional bus drivers and added an additional 20 buses to cater for growing demand. These buses have been deployed across the city; Swords, Ballymun, Finglas, Blanchardstown, Lucan, Tallaght/Ballycullen, Bray/Stillorgan Road and Merrion Road.

These extra drivers and buses will also allow us deliver a major improvement in reliability and punctuality by mid/end January 2015 on Routes 11, 14, 27, 39/a, 46a/47, 77a and 145 which will all have new schedules. Other routes which will receive improved schedules early in 2015 will include routes 4, 83 and 150.

Finally, operating the bus service during all the Luas Cross City works have been challenging and we are hopeful that after the next change in mid-January, that the level of service disruption will level off.

Should you feel that you require a more specific reply to your complaint, and you think it may not be dealt with by the above improvements, I will be happy to investigate it further for you.

In the meantime, thank you for your comments and we look forward to delivering a much improved service in 2015.



Kind regards,

Customer Comment Desk

devnull

Looks like a cut and paste bulk reply to me.

LXFlyer

But it does give some hope for the new year in terms of revised schedules to deal with the problems of reliability and increases in demand.

dfx-

Aren't the 'additional' buses actually SGs and aren't they just replacing withdrawn AVs? So not necessarily adding to the bus total