Honours Degree vs Work Experience

Awkward Badger

In terms of a career in development is it worth it to get the level 8 honours degree if you're offered a decent job off the back of a level 7 ordinary degree ?

Will the level 8 stand to you in the long term and make you more attractive to employers/more likely to get ahead faster or would the equivalent amount of time spent actually working be more or just as valuable ?

Raging_Ninja

I'd get the honous degree - the money starting off is usually better. Also some HR types might look at you and say "why didn't he finish his course?"

Tefral

Awkward Badger wrote: »

In terms of a career in development is it worth it to get the level 8 honours degree if you're offered a decent job off the back of a level 7 ordinary degree ?

Will the level 8 stand to you in the long term and make you more attractive to employers/more likely to get ahead faster or would the equivalent amount of time spent actually working be more or just as valuable ?

The way things are now if you have a firm job offer and you think that it will be like that for a couple of years, id take the job and do the level 8 by distance if possible.

You haven't said what industry your in, but if a Level 8 is the norm then I would say in the long run it may count against you at some stage if you dont have it.

The degree opens the doors, experience will keep you there. If you can do both your on to a winner

counterpointaud

If you have a level 7 degree with a good final mark, and an offer with a reasonably respected industry name, gaining transferable experience, I would go for it. This was my situation and I don't regret my decision.

BrokenArrows

If the money is good for the offered position and its a job where you will be challenged then take it. However take into account you will probably have to stay there for two years to make the experience count. Further potential employers probably wouldn't like you bouncing from the job after a year or less.

If its a fairly simplistic role or the money is poor I'd stay and complete the final year.

I think experience counts more than anything these days.

Awkward Badger

BrokenArrows wrote: »

If the money is good for the offered position and its a job where you will be challenged then take it. However take into account you will probably have to stay there for two years to make the experience count. Further potential employers probably wouldn't like you bouncing from the job after a year or less.

If its a fairly simplistic role or the money is poor I'd stay and complete the final year.

I think experience counts more than anything these days.

What would you call good/poor money out of interest ?

Awkward Badger

cronin_j wrote: »

The way things are now if you have a firm job offer and you think that it will be like that for a couple of years, id take the job and do the level 8 by distance if possible.

You haven't said what industry your in, but if a Level 8 is the norm then I would say in the long run it may count against you at some stage if you dont have it.

The degree opens the doors, experience will keep you there. If you can do both your on to a winner

Would be in software development, no job offers as of yet so I don't know any more than that. If the job was decent would it be the doors opening a year earlier than expected and getting experience under my belt making the honours degree somewhat redundant ? Will it matter to employers after a few years whether I have level 7 or 8 if I have plenty of experience ?

BrokenArrows

Awkward Badger wrote: »

What would you call good/poor money out of interest ?

Impossible for me to say. Depends on the job, how good you are, your situation.
Have a look around at similar positions. If they are offering the same money then try and get them a little higher. Starting even just 1k higher in your first job will have a roll on effect into subsequent jobs.

If they are lower then forget about it or try and negotiate a salary review after your first 6 months with your expected salary already known to them.

dynamited

Work experience over Degree


Any monkey can get a Degree

The Corinthian

The final mark or quality of your degree really only matters at the start of your career. It'll make a difference between getting a good first job, not only in terms of salary, but more importantly in what you'll do (if you want to go into development, a weaker degree may mean that going straight into development may be more difficult, meaning that your first job may be in more of a maintenance or support job). In short it accelerates your career at the beginning - how much and for how long is open to debate.

As time passes your degree will just be a degree; that you have one will be all that matters - the exact type or final mark will become irrelevant over time and your experience will be the only thing that prospective employers will care about.

yop

dynamited wrote: »

Work experience over Degree


Any monkey can get a Degree

Have to agree there on that, 8 monkeys did our final year, 7 monkeys went to do a degree, one monkey didn't.. now only 1 monkey works in the related Software Dev work, the other 6 don't do IT jobs and one does data entry.

Depends on the company though, some won't look at you without a degree I think, though its more prevalent in the UK.

CreepingDeath

I'm too old to know what these Level 7/8 degrees are, but certainly complete your degree.

After a few years the degree level rarely matters.
A first class honours gets you bragging rights, but if you can't show good experience of work you've done and you aren't able to talk fluently about it, then it means very little.

If you want to go further academically, you can always do a masters nighttime course. That tends to be more for people who want to move into the business side of things, management, business analysts, product management etc.

Pure developers, the best thing they can do is have a degree behind them and just keep coding, personal projects, work experience, learn all the new technologies that the oldies don't have the time/inclination to learn.

Jim2007

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Will the level 8 stand to you in the long term and make you more attractive to employers/more likely to get ahead faster or would the equivalent amount of time spent actually working be more or just as valuable ?

You are at the beginning of your career and none of us can tell you how important your degree will be in 5, 10 or 15 years times, but what I can tell you is that over the 25 years I've been in the industry, qualifications have become more and more important over time and I have no reason to believe that that will change.

I also believe that you will find it much easier to complete the course now than putting it off, trying to do it at night school or doing an MSc later. So unless you are having financial difficulties, you should complete the course now because you'll never get this opportunity again.

The Corinthian

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I'm too old to know what these Level 7/8 degrees are, but certainly complete your degree.

Indeed, all these new-fangled things young people are into...

Jim2007 wrote: »

You are at the beginning of your career and none of us can tell you how important your degree will be in 5, 10 or 15 years times, but what I can tell you is that over the 25 years I've been in the industry, qualifications have become more and more important over time and I have no reason to believe that that will change.

Qualifications yes, your initial qualification no.

That is to say, having a degree is still very important as a baseline (I've known very good developers who never got one and have been haunted by the lack thereof), but the whether that degree was a first, 2.1, 2.2 or whatever loses it's importance after the first few years as experience is gained. Additional qualifications, be they postgraduate diplomas, masters or professional certifications have become increasingly important, but the OP is really only asking about the initial degree.

However, as I said, a degree is an important baseline in the business and I agree that unless the OP has serious financial problems, (s)he should complete his/her course.

bpmurray

The honours degree is very important: many multinationals won't even look at your CV if you don't have a 4-year degree. And it opens the door to do a Masters in the future too.

If you're really committed to starting work, then try to do that extra year part-time, although that is a really tough commitment.

Awkward Badger

bpmurray wrote: »

The honours degree is very important: many multinationals won't even look at your CV if you don't have a 4-year degree. And it opens the door to do a Masters in the future too.

If you're really committed to starting work, then try to do that extra year part-time, although that is a really tough commitment.

They won't even consider you without an honours degree even if you've got experience ? Or just starting off ? Yeah I'm not sure I would be able to do it part time. I'd say I either continue straight on or I don't do it at all. So if its more valuable in the long term to have it than get into work a year earlier I'd probably go for it. I just figured that if experience was what you will be hired for after a few years out working then the degree wouldn't matter a whole lot. So getting a decent job off the back of a level 7 would be more like getting a years head start on your career.

counterpointaud

bpmurray wrote: »

The honours degree is very important: many multinationals won't even look at your CV if you don't have a 4-year degree. And it opens the door to do a Masters in the future too.

If you're really committed to starting work, then try to do that extra year part-time, although that is a really tough commitment.

FWIW I am with one of the larger multinationals, and they were not concerned with the degree level at all. Marks, portfolio, experience and aptitude (they had their own tests).

ChRoMe

Awkward Badger wrote: »

They won't even consider you without an honours degree even if you've got experience ? Or just starting off ? Yeah I'm not sure I would be able to do it part time. I'd say I either continue straight on or I don't do it at all. So if its more valuable in the long term to have it than get into work a year earlier I'd probably go for it. I just figured that if experience was what you will be hired for after a few years out working then the degree wouldn't matter a whole lot. So getting a decent job off the back of a level 7 would be more like getting a years head start on your career.

Degree is meaningless after a few years of experience.

ronivek

I'd go with the job; I also went that route albeit not because I had much choice at the time. Remember they're not mutually exclusive though; you can also do summer internships which will differentiate you from other students and graduates.

You can also do a top-up degree with the Open University if you have a level 7 computing degree and that'll bring you to a level 8 if it does become an issue for you.

bpmurray

counterpointaud wrote: »

FWIW I am with one of the larger multinationals, and they were not concerned with the degree level at all. Marks, portfolio, experience and aptitude (they had their own tests).

So am I, and all CVs go into the HR filtering system. This is definitely far from perfect and many good CVs get lost there but it's what we have. As I said before, if you don't have a 4 year degree, then your CV is dumped and they'll send a nice letter.

So the point is that the requirement for the degree is to get to the interview - after that, it's how you sell yourself but you do need the door-opener.

counterpointaud

bpmurray wrote: »

So am I, and all CVs go into the HR filtering system. This is definitely far from perfect and many good CVs get lost there but it's what we have. As I said before, if you don't have a 4 year degree, then your CV is dumped and they'll send a nice letter.

So the point is that the requirement for the degree is to get to the interview - after that, it's how you sell yourself but you do need the door-opener.

Interesting... do you happen to know how the filtering system reacts when the applicant has 2+ years experience in the industry ? Is the CV still discarded if the applicant has a 3 year degree ?

UCDVet

counterpointaud wrote: »

Interesting... do you happen to know how the filtering system reacts when the applicant has 2+ years experience in the industry ? Is the CV still discarded if the applicant has a 3 year degree ?

It probably depends on the company, but the last place I worked required a degree in computer science or similar field of study for all of their entry/junior level positions. Without it, unless you were the CEO's son or daughter, you wouldn't get an interview.

For the mid-level/senior positions, I'm pretty sure they still listed it as a requirement, but they weren't nearly so strict. If you had a strong work history and skillset, it was okay. I had a few co-workers who never finished school.

It's a bit of a catch-22 though. A friend of mine who dropped out of uni basically had to take an 5 year detour of really crappy jobs, to build up his experience and CV enough that big companies would look at him. The guy is amazing too, so it's depressing how much trouble he had. Eventually though he landed a job at Google. Now, not having a degree is a non-issue for him at most places (though, I'm sure there are some companies that would bin his CV).

Trojan

The multinational I worked for required that the applicant must have the knowledge to do the job (learning and/or experience), and have a 4-year honours degree in anything (development, music, philosophy, finance, whatever).

Senna

Trojan wrote: »

The multinational I worked for required that the applicant must have the knowledge to do the job (learning and/or experience), and have a 4-year honours degree in anything (development, music, philosophy, finance, whatever).

I was wondering if that was the case in a few companies. Is having the degree more proof that you have a certain level of learning and commitment, rather than you have the correct knowledge for the position.
I'm hoping this might be the case, I have a level 8 degree in management and I've started a (UK) Foundation software dev degree. In 3 years whens its finished I would love to be able to be able to apply for positions, of course it will depend on how much experience I get in these 3 years.

EamonnDunne

Senna wrote: »

I was wondering if that was the case in a few companies. Is having the degree more proof that you have a certain level of learning and commitment, rather than you have the correct knowledge for the position.
I'm hoping this might be the case, I have a level 8 degree in management and I've started a (UK) Foundation software dev degree. In 3 years whens its finished I would love to be able to be able to apply for positions, of course it will depend on how much experience I get in these 3 years.

In conjunction with a good portfolio of side projects on github (or similar) that should be sufficient to secure an entry level job.

Trojan

Senna wrote: »

I was wondering if that was the case in a few companies. Is having the degree more proof that you have a certain level of learning and commitment, rather than you have the correct knowledge for the position.

At a minimum it means you can put up with 4 years of bureaucratic bull**** while hitting deadlines on a semi regular basis, and learning some basic social niceties.

It's a minimum standard but it's a useful one.

LukeQuietus

Both. But if I was looking at a stack of CVs and I saw a college degree or even a masters with no experience vs someone with 2 yrs experience and good refs with no college I'd pick the experience. Too much of what you learn in a college curriculum is either forgotten, not relevant (or too broad to be relevant) or outdated.

Development in the real world moves fast. Course curriculums are very slow to update and take on new material, software or practices. And if money is your sole reason for doing development you might find it hard out there. You need to enjoy development above all else. The rest will happen. That's just my opinion of course