SEPA direct debit - is a debitor allowed to only accept debits from Irish accounts

Bob24

I am trying to setup an automatic top up for my leap card, and would rather use an account I have with a French bank to setup a direct debit.

The website lets me pick France as my bank's country, but then displays an error message once I have entered all the information and try to validate: "Auto top-ups are only available to Irish Bank Accounts."

I was under the impression that SEPA regulations where forcing banks and creditors to let people setup direct debits from any eurozone country to any other eurozone country and prohibiting national limitations.

Would someone be able to confirm if I got that right? And if correct would you link from an official institution which says it clearly? (I searched a bit but can't find one)

BazzaDP

Leap do have it in their terms and conditions which is probably not technically legal anymore as you say.

There is one complication however. SEPA doesn't technically allow direct debit sign ups by Internet or telephone but Ireland does and has made an exception for this - but for Irish accounts only (can't post link as new user but add www to the start of this and look at page 7: bpfi.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SEPA-Business-Service-V1.7.pdf). DDs for other countries must be completed in writing. It's unclear whether companies HAVE to offer an option to process paper mandates in such cases but I would have presumed so.

Bob24

Thanks a lot. Yes I noticed Electric Ireland and UPC have a specific paper form for non Irish SEPA direct debits mandates.

What is a bit unclear on the official documentation I found is that it only states that a bank account holder in the SEPA area has the right to use the account to arrange direct debit mandates in any other SEPA country.
Like you I would presume it also means a company has to process mandates for these people - but I couldn't find this written explicitly.

I'll try to drop then a message and see what they say.

Legislator

Bob24 wrote: »

Thanks a lot. Yes I noticed Electric Ireland and UPC have a specific paper form for non Irish SEPA direct debits mandates.

What is a bit unclear on the official documentation I found is that it only states that a bank account holder in the SEPA area has the right to use the account to arrange direct debit mandates in any other SEPA country.
Like you I would presume it also means a company has to process mandates for these people - but I couldn't find this written explicitly.

I'll try to drop then a message and see what they say.

The SEPA Regulation clearly states that a payer can use an account in the SEPA area for purpose of making payments. A company / utility that refuses to accept a non-Irish BIC / IBAN for a payment is breaking the law.

Bob24

Legislator wrote: »

The SEPA Regulation clearly states that a payer can use an account in the SEPA area for purpose of making payments. A company / utility that refuses to accept a non-Irish BIC / IBAN for a payment is breaking the law.

Thanks. I have sent them an email to ask for a paper form ... will see what they say.

GerardKeating

Legislator wrote: »

The SEPA Regulation clearly states that a payer can use an account in the SEPA area for purpose of making payments. A company / utility that refuses to accept a non-Irish BIC / IBAN for a payment is breaking the law.

Not exactly, SEPA (as another poster mentioned) does not permit setup up a DD online, so the online system is quite correct to reject this attempt.

Others (UPC/EI) do provide a paper DD form for non-Irish direct debits.

Has anyone asked LEAP if they have a similar paper form?

Bob24

Still pending an answer from the leap card customer service for my request to get a paper form.

In the meantime I had sent an inquiry to the Your Europe Advice service which is ran be they EU to provide information to European citizens, and they came back with a very clear answer:

Dear Mr. xxx,
Thank you for your enquiry to the Your Europe Advice service.
You are correct. Under the SEPA Regulation 260/2012/EU, a payee such as the public transport authority in Ireland is not permitted to specify the EU country in which the payment account is located provided the account exists in accordance with EU rules. This is provided under Article 9 of the Regulation.
I trust that this information is of assistance to you. Should you have any further queries in relation to your rights in the EU, please do not hesitate to revert to the Your Europe Advice service.
Yours sincerely,
Your Europe Advice

BazzaDP

Bob24 wrote: »

Under the SEPA Regulation 260/2012/EU, a payee such as the public transport authority in Ireland is not permitted to specify the EU country in which the payment account is located provided the account exists in accordance with EU rules. This is provided under Article 9 of the Regulation.

Ok but that's doesn't address the fact that Ireland legislation clearly states telephone and Internet sign ups may only be done for ROI accounts. Maybe your question is best addressed to IPSO (now renamed to BPFI) who came up with that rule:

Banking & Payments
Federation Ireland,
Nassau House,
Nassau Street,
Dublin 2
Ireland
+353 1 671 53 11
info @ bpfi.ie

Bob24

BazzaDP wrote: »

Ok but that's doesn't address the fact that Ireland legislation clearly states telephone and Internet sign ups may only be done for ROI accounts. Maybe your question is best addressed to IPSO (now renamed to BPFI) who came up with that rule:

True, but I think the legislation might fall short of specifying that the process to establish a direct debit mandate must be identical regardless of the host country for the payer's bank account (I would be surprised if all other companies which have paper forms fr non Irish account holders were doing this illegally without ruining into any trouble).

In any case, as long as they allow me to pay from the account I want to use, I'll be happy enough to fill-out a paper form if needed. I'll post their reply here.

Bob24

So the Leap Card customer service got back to me just saying: "Unfortunately the Auto Load facility on Leap Card is only available to ROI bank accounts. We apologise for the inconvenience this may cause."

I replied quoting the legislation again and attaching the email from Your Europe Advice, and threatening them to bring the matter to relevant authorities shall they not engage and make themselves compliant with SEPA regulations.

Not to be honest I am not not sure what the relevant authorities are ...

Who can I talk to as an individual consumer who is incorrectly being denied a SEPA direct debit mandate due to the country of my account?

Legislator

The Central Bank is the competent authority for compliance with Regulation 260/2012.

Bob24

Legislator wrote: »

The Central Bank is the competent authority for compliance with Regulation 260/2012.

Thanks, will drop the CBI an email if I don't get a satisfactory answer from the Leap Card customer service by next week.