Economics and Finance UCD, acturial and financial studies UCD, maths TCD

Ima_mokster

Hi guys,
I appreciate this is going to be a long post but i would really be grateful for your opinions/experiences with what I have to say as I am seriously stressed and desperate at this stage! Its also worth noting that i have done tonnes of research but am even more confused if anything.
I am seriously considering the three courses i mentioned above however i cannot make a final decision. I am quite mathematically brained and hope to get about 590 points in the leaving this summer. I would love a career that would command a challenge and also offer a significant salary (please dont tell me its not all about the money im 100% aware of that and that college is for studying something that interests you) as i am quite set on the math industry. Id love to be a quant and work with stocks but i also think id like to be an actuary. Also im 99% certain that i want to emigrate so a degree (preferably just an undergrad) that can take me to the likes of the US, Canada or Australia is a must!

My main worries are:
1. economics and finance seems to be a great course but im not convinced that the jobs the graduates get are really that good despite the big names involved. Also im worried that abroad unfortunately Trinity is regarded farrrr superior to UCD which does have an effect on an employer deciding between two equally qualified candidates imo. However im really interested in this course as a lot of high achieving students in the CAO apply for this course and id love to truly know why!

2. I do actuarial maths in UCD and end up getting my exemptions but dont get a job with a a great salary as i expected (€100k+) after fully qualified ofc, and i also worry that it will be difficult going abroad with this degree. Also i am aware that i will have to study very hard for several years but how much will i genuinely have to study if im good at taking exams and will the studying cease once qualified? Is the fus about actuaries really warranted?


3. Maths in TCD will obviously open more paths (or will it?) but im petrified that this degree will be extremely difficult to do well in and that the content wont6 be of interest to me. Although ive only been to UCD once, i am in love with Trinity, the location, buildings, library and ultimately the reputation is so tempting (Why not go for the better college if you can) Also im aware TCD us 15th or whatever in the world but thats just for research and i heard some of the lecturers are appalling. basically is the course in whole too difficult and are the prospects greater? also is there any opportunity for internships and do TCD try help you get jobs or have good partners etc.

AGAIN I STRESS i am really desperate and grateful for your time in helping me! Are there any other courses you would recommend studying? I dont have the money to go to the UK to study and i want a 3 or 4 max year course that will take me around the world with a good job, money and work life balance. Dont bother replying id you're going to lecture (excuse the pun) me on how everyone wants all that but i can achieve a really good LC ( 625 isnt impossible it is attainable if i put my head down) and think itd be a waste for me not to grab this opportunity! THANK YOU SO MUCH

LC12395

I'm currently in first year Bafs in ucd. DO NOT CHOOSE A COURSE BECAUSE OF THE POINTS YOU THINK YOU'LL GET! Two people in the course have dropped out already that got 615 points. No one ever told me how difficult the course is.... But ucd is really great though. To be honest nobody in my class actually likes it so far but semester one is a lot of pure maths, not really any different than if you'd chosen to do maths through science. Hopefully second semester gets a bit more interesting. As far as I know someone is transferring from maths in trinity next year. Also you don't necessarily have to become an actuary at the end of the degree. It is called actuarial and FINANCIAL studies, that's why I chose it over economics and finance. You can still go down the financial root if you choose so later.

McKrab

Second Year in Economics and Finance here. I'd say go with the course you think you would enjoy studying the most. I know that sounds cliche but realistically, where you end up will be far more dependent on your grades or your extra-curricular stuff than on the particular course you study.

You mentioned you'd like to be a quant or an actuary, both of which will require further study after your undergraduate degree (probably a PHD if you want to be a quant, and the Actuarial exams for Actuary) but any of the degrees above would be fine for either outcome.

In terms of difficulty, Economics and Finance is easy enough, given the fact that everyone has 580+ points (or whatever the entry requirements were this year). There's a fair few Maths and Statistics modules which should be fine if you're considering Maths anyway.

ucdperson

Ima_mokster wrote: »

Hi guys,
I appreciate this is going to be a long post but i would really be grateful for your opinions/experiences with what I have to say as I am seriously stressed and desperate at this stage! Its also worth noting that i have done tonnes of research but am even more confused if anything.
I am seriously considering the three courses i mentioned above however i cannot make a final decision. I am quite mathematically brained and hope to get about 590 points in the leaving this summer. I would love a career that would command a challenge and also offer a significant salary (please dont tell me its not all about the money im 100% aware of that and that college is for studying something that interests you) as i am quite set on the math industry. Id love to be a quant and work with stocks but i also think id like to be an actuary. Also im 99% certain that i want to emigrate so a degree (preferably just an undergrad) that can take me to the likes of the US, Canada or Australia is a must!

My main worries are:
1. economics and finance seems to be a great course but im not convinced that the jobs the graduates get are really that good despite the big names involved. Also im worried that abroad unfortunately Trinity is regarded farrrr superior to UCD which does have an effect on an employer deciding between two equally qualified candidates imo. However im really interested in this course as a lot of high achieving students in the CAO apply for this course and id love to truly know why!

You should also consider the new Business Analytics in UCD, which like E&F and BAFS is a form of applied maths but goes into different direction. As to reputation, Actuarial is very much influenced by the professional exams, while E&F and Analytics are in the UCD Business School which holds triple accreditations, a US employer is likely to be more impressed by AACSB accreditation than the nice buildings in TCD.

LC12395 wrote:

To be honest nobody in my class actually likes it so far but semester one is a lot of pure maths, not really any different than if you'd chosen to do maths through science.

I think the point is that the applied maths degrees above all need a solid math foundation in first year, but they then apply that to solving business problems of various sorts in later years rather than just as a scientific study of maths in itself.

Ima_mokster

ucdperson wrote: »

You should also consider the new Business Analytics in UCD, which like E&F and BAFS is a form of applied maths but goes into different direction. As to reputation, Actuarial is very much influenced by the professional exams, while E&F and Analytics are in the UCD Business School which holds triple accreditations, a US employer is likely to be more impressed by AACSB accreditation than the nice buildings in TCD.



I think the point is that the applied maths degrees above all need a solid math foundation in first year, but they then apply that to solving business problems of various sorts in later years rather than just as a scientific study of maths in itself.

So you think maths in trinity wouldn't be as good as one of the three in UCD to get a job in th US? Even if i did really well in maths? or maths and economics even?

misslt

LC12395 wrote: »

I'm currently in first year Bafs in ucd. DO NOT CHOOSE A COURSE BECAUSE OF THE POINTS YOU THINK YOU'LL GET! Two people in the course have dropped out already that got 615 points. No one ever told me how difficult the course is.... But ucd is really great though. To be honest nobody in my class actually likes it so far but semester one is a lot of pure maths, not really any different than if you'd chosen to do maths through science. Hopefully second semester gets a bit more interesting. As far as I know someone is transferring from maths in trinity next year. Also you don't necessarily have to become an actuary at the end of the degree. It is called actuarial and FINANCIAL studies, that's why I chose it over economics and finance. You can still go down the financial root if you choose so later.

Just as a bit of a segue - first year sucks. I hated it and seriously considered switching. But from next year on it gets better! More actuarial, more finance, less pure maths-y. And placement is really fun!

OP, as a BAFS graduate, especially if you get some exemptions, you can do a LOT. I'm a part-qualified actuary now but a lot of people in my class are doing other things - trading, investment banking etc. you don't *have* to be an actuary, it's a great degree for that.

**Timbuk2**

Ima_mokster wrote: »

2. I do actuarial maths in UCD and end up getting my exemptions but dont get a job with a a great salary as i expected (€100k+) after fully qualified ofc, and i also worry that it will be difficult going abroad with this degree. Also i am aware that i will have to study very hard for several years but how much will i genuinely have to study if im good at taking exams and will the studying cease once qualified? Is the fus about actuaries really warranted?

I can only offer advice about actuarial maths in UCD as that's what I did, I'm not too sure about the other routes.

Like misslt, I'm working as a part-qualified actuary and I love it, but BAFS is considered a good degree and allows you to go into other areas if you wish - again, some of my classmates are now working in trading, investments, analytics etc.

I don't understand your point about it being difficult to go abroad with the BAFS degree. It is recognised internationally so you shouldn't have any issue there. I did my 3rd year work placement in Ireland, but some of my classmates did it in the UK/Germany/America. While most of us who graduated together are working in Dublin, some are working in the UK/America, there's nothing stopping you at all from travelling.

It's worth noting that the exemptions (and the professional exams after college) are given by a UK body, so there will be no issue recognising them internationally!

And yes, you will have to study very hard after graduating to become qualified as an actuary. But with the exemptions from an actuarial course in UCD (or DCU/Queens etc.) it'll cut down the time you have to study for (if you get all the exemptions in college, it'll take about 3-4 more years to qualify). But the studying will more or less cease after qualifying!

Don't get too caught up on the decision. BAFS and Ec+Fi have a large amount of overlap. And everybody who graduated from Maths Science in UCD in my year got a job (those who were looking for one) - same with BAFS.

If you have any other questions let me know!

Ima_mokster

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I can only offer advice about actuarial maths in UCD as that's what I did, I'm not too sure about the other routes.

Like misslt, I'm working as a part-qualified actuary and I love it, but BAFS is considered a good degree and allows you to go into other areas if you wish - again, some of my classmates are now working in trading, investments, analytics etc.

I don't understand your point about it being difficult to go abroad with the BAFS degree. It is recognised internationally so you shouldn't have any issue there. I did my 3rd year work placement in Ireland, but some of my classmates did it in the UK/Germany/America. While most of us who graduated together are working in Dublin, some are working in the UK/America, there's nothing stopping you at all from travelling.

It's worth noting that the exemptions (and the professional exams after college) are given by a UK body, so there will be no issue recognising them internationally!

And yes, you will have to study very hard after graduating to become qualified as an actuary. But with the exemptions from an actuarial course in UCD (or DCU/Queens etc.) it'll cut down the time you have to study for (if you get all the exemptions in college, it'll take about 3-4 more years to qualify). But the studying will more or less cease after qualifying!

Don't get too caught up on the decision. BAFS and Ec+Fi have a large amount of overlap. And everybody who graduated from Maths Science in UCD in my year got a job (those who were looking for one) - same with BAFS.

If you have any other questions let me know!

See im really considering maths in tcd because i really love the campus and lifestyle in general, would it be crazy trying the actuary exams with only a statistics exemption?

misslt

Ima_mokster wrote: »

See im really considering maths in tcd because i really love the campus and lifestyle in general, would it be crazy trying the actuary exams with only a statistics exemption?

Not at all, I'm working in the UK and none of my colleagues this year had more than the stats one.

Pythia

I did E&F in UCD (although I did graduate in 2007) and I am a qualified actuary now. I got 2 exemptions but the course content is probably different now. It's a great degree if you want to keep your options open. I would recommend it. People are in many areas now, over 7 years later. Accounting, finance, investment banking, actuarial etc.

Actuary exams aren't that hard if you have the time to put into them (given you are good at maths etc). I got the remaining 13 done in 3.5 years. A lot of people in the UK would have very few exemptions so it's really not so bad.

Hon the Dubs

Pythia wrote: »

I did E&F in UCD (although I did graduate in 2007) and I am a qualified actuary now. I got 2 exemptions but the course content is probably different now. It's a great degree if you want to keep your options open. I would recommend it. People are in many areas now, over 7 years later. Accounting, finance, investment banking, actuarial etc.

Actuary exams aren't that hard if you have the time to put into them (given you are good at maths etc). I got the remaining 13 done in 3.5 years. A lot of people in the UK would have very few exemptions so it's really not so bad.

Hey for E&F in UCD is a strong base in economics needed?

Pythia

Hon the Dubs wrote: »

Hey for E&F in UCD is a strong base in economics needed?

I did not study it for LC and had no knowledge of it before doing the course.

robman60

Hon the Dubs wrote: »

Hey for E&F in UCD is a strong base in economics needed?

I'm in Law with Economics but we do the same economics modules as E&F. No prior knowledge is assumed and it really isn't that difficult. I didn't do LC economics and while it would help, it definitely isn't essential. I found the textbook to be a good help if I didn't understand something fully so you should consider investing in it if you don't have prior economics study.

ciaraofcourse

I think you're way over-rating Trinity in your mind. Like it's nice and all and before moving to Dublin I remember thinking the same thoughts about the buildings and the reputation etc but once you get settled into a college you're gonna stop noticing the fancy buildings. The location is actually a drawback because of the hours you're going to have to spend sitting in traffic in the mornings on a bus or whatever trying to get there(note 'campus' accommodation is not on campus for Trinity). Also I'd rather good facilities over old buildings and UCD has a brand new student centre with swimming pool, gym, cinema etc. overall more modern facilities than are available in Trinity. In terms of reputation Trinity is slightly better known abroad, but only slightly! Any employer you apply to in America may well have not heard of either university and a quick Google will tell them that UCD is worth its salt particularly for those two degrees.

BAFS is pretty much the best actuarial degree available in UK or Ireland as it has nine exemptions including CA1 which is the one that's a known as a bitch to get outside of a university. It also has 6 months paid work experience (which can be abroad). However if you wanna do a non-actuarial degree you can do those exams yourself over a few years, it's not that hard.

I'm in 4th year BAFS. Part of me wishes I had done E&F as it's only 3 years and I'm pretty much sick of student life and ready to be working already. However most people disagree with me and want to be a student for as long as possible and so would favour a 4 year course.

In general, actuarial study can be a bit tedious but it's not a bad way to make a decent wage using maths and problem solving. As others have said you can easily move into trading/banking/some other financial career and BAFS will still be a good degree to have. You don't need a background in economics but you should have an interest in things business-y and economics-y. I know some of my classmates who are really into pure maths are disappointed now as the financial maths doesn't exactly excite people who love beautiful complex equations. If you love numbers and theorems and **** like that just for it's own sake than maybe a pure maths degree would be better. But if you have an interest in how money makes the world go round.... you get my drift.

You can travel with all these degrees.

At the end of the day there's no way to know for sure you're making the right decision. Just gotta take a leap of faith and sure if you hate your choice there's always a way out of it.

Ima_mokster

ciaraofcourse wrote: »

I think you're way over-rating Trinity in your mind. Like it's nice and all and before moving to Dublin I remember thinking the same thoughts about the buildings and the reputation etc but once you get settled into a college you're gonna stop noticing the fancy buildings. The location is actually a drawback because of the hours you're going to have to spend sitting in traffic in the mornings on a bus or whatever trying to get there(note 'campus' accommodation is not on campus for Trinity). Also I'd rather good facilities over old buildings and UCD has a brand new student centre with swimming pool, gym, cinema etc. overall more modern facilities than are available in Trinity. In terms of reputation Trinity is slightly better known abroad, but only slightly! Any employer you apply to in America may well have not heard of either university and a quick Google will tell them that UCD is worth its salt particularly for those two degrees.

BAFS is pretty much the best actuarial degree available in UK or Ireland as it has nine exemptions including CA1 which is the one that's a known as a bitch to get outside of a university. It also has 6 months paid work experience (which can be abroad). However if you wanna do a non-actuarial degree you can do those exams yourself over a few years, it's not that hard.

I'm in 4th year BAFS. Part of me wishes I had done E&F as it's only 3 years and I'm pretty much sick of student life and ready to be working already. However most people disagree with me and want to be a student for as long as possible and so would favour a 4 year course.

In general, actuarial study can be a bit tedious but it's not a bad way to make a decent wage using maths and problem solving. As others have said you can easily move into trading/banking/some other financial career and BAFS will still be a good degree to have. You don't need a background in economics but you should have an interest in things business-y and economics-y. I know some of my classmates who are really into pure maths are disappointed now as the financial maths doesn't exactly excite people who love beautiful complex equations. If you love numbers and theorems and **** like that just for it's own sake than maybe a pure maths degree would be better. But if you have an interest in how money makes the world go round.... you get my drift.

You can travel with all these degrees.

At the end of the day there's no way to know for sure you're making the right decision. Just gotta take a leap of faith and sure if you hate your choice there's always a way out of it.

First of all thank you so much your insight really made me think! I know they say you can go work in America for the work experience but is it really open to people or is it ridiculously hard to get? Also ive heard the lectures etc. in economics and finance and BAFS are largely similar so would it not make sense doing BAFS for the sake of the exemptions? You also said 'decent' wage? Ive heard starting off with many exemptions reduces your ability to get rises and start up salary is that true? Is the hype about the 100k salary after a couple years genuine in Ireland? What are job prospects currently like? would you say it would change much in 4 years time? Would it be hard to move to the US or Aus with this degree? And since you're in UCD, with regard to horizons, is it true that they don't give a lot of people what they apply for?? Thank you so so so much!!
I really appreciate it

ciaraofcourse

Ima_mokster wrote: »

First of all thank you so much your insight really made me think! I know they say you can go work in America for the work experience but is it really open to people or is it ridiculously hard to get? Also ive heard the lectures etc. in economics and finance and BAFS are largely similar so would it not make sense doing BAFS for the sake of the exemptions? You also said 'decent' wage? Ive heard starting off with many exemptions reduces your ability to get rises and start up salary is that true? Is the hype about the 100k salary after a couple years genuine in Ireland? What are job prospects currently like? would you say it would change much in 4 years time? Would it be hard to move to the US or Aus with this degree? And since you're in UCD, with regard to horizons, is it true that they don't give a lot of people what they apply for?? Thank you so so so much!!
I really appreciate it

There will only be one or two job postings in America and maybe four or five in the UK. So the employer will choose who gets them based on your CV a phone/Skype interview. However, not that many people in my class applied for the international placements as when push comes to shove many people don't want to leave Dublin for various reasons - financial, girlfriend/boyfriend, sports teams, not being too far away from Mammy etc.... So those who did apply had a relatively decent chance of getting them.

Yea there is a lot of overlap between BAFS and E&F but obviously BAFS is more actuarial focused. How many exemptions you get determines your starting wage. Then you take the additional exams while working. Usually every time you pass an exam your employer gives you a raise. Obviously if you have less exemptions you have more exams to pass so this will happen more often for you but you would only be catching up with the people who started on a higher wage due to having more exemptions than you!

Your actual salary will depend on the job you end up doing, your abilities, your employer and the situation at that time in the future. So I won't quote you figures to promise you a particular salary level!! But I will tell you Dublin is a good place to be an actuary - lots of international companies are here. And the market is quite good right now. Lots of demand for bright people. People who do well in the degree get jobs before the end of college. People who do less well get jobs within a couple of months of finishing college. And most people progress quite well in the job quite quickly but it really depends on the person!! Most likely it will be similar in a few years time but sure so don't worry about unemployment anyway!!

It would be very easy to move anywhere in the world with this degree. The exemptions are from the UK Institute and Faculty which is the body used by actuaries worldwide except US & Canada. But US and Canada employers would also accept our credentials no problem.

Horizons can be good but it depends what you apply for. The most popular modules like 'Intro to Massage' are always oversubscribed so they are allocated by lottery. A lot of people use Horizons to take up a new language or continue with one they did in school. Or you can take something that you already have a good knowledge of so you know you will fly through it and therefore leave more time for your other harder subjects. It's a nice little feature of UCD but just be careful not to take on too much by choosing an advanced module for your elective!!

ucdperson

Anyone of a quant disposition might want to come along to the Economics & Finance / Business Analytics Open Evening, on next Monday
19 January 2015 in the UCD Quinn School of Business.
https://myucd.ucd.ie/events/eventRegistration.do?eventRegistrationAction=registration&stringEventID=Mzkx

BuckleyX17

Out of interest, what actuarial exemptions can you get if you do Economics and Finance?

Pythia

BuckleyX17 wrote: »

Out of interest, what actuarial exemptions can you get if you do Economics and Finance?

I got CT7 and 8 but 2 and 3 could be in scope too. It's probably changed since I did it now though.

SeaDaily

Does anyone know how many places are being offered between Ec and Fi and Business Analytics this year? Is it 60 places for each or 60 places for both is there a new number of spaces for this year?

ucdperson

SeaDaily wrote: »

Does anyone know how many places are being offered between Ec and Fi and Business Analytics this year? Is it 60 places for each or 60 places for both is there a new number of spaces for this year?

It is 60 places in common. This is an increase of 15 on the number of E&F places last year. This will increase over time in subsequent years as more people become aware of the Business Analytics.

SeaDaily

ucdperson wrote: »

It is 60 places in common. This is an increase of 15 on the number of E&F places last year. This will increase over time in subsequent years as more people become aware of the Business Analytics.

Okay thanks a million.