Attitude in the bus lane

blackwhite

Macy0161 wrote: »

I had one taxi give out to me for not using the cyclepath, then once he'd past, a few hundred metres down the road was up and on and blocking the cyclepath to get a fare!

I really hope you gave a sharp rap on the window as you passed the pr*ck


(that, or reported him to the regulator)

Macy0161

DrMike wrote: »

Dublin Cycling Campaign/Cyclist.ie - The Irish Cycling Advocacy Network - intend to seek a meeting with Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann and Aircoach managements in the New Year to discuss better training for drivers.

Please add Wexford Bus to the list!

Jawgap

Macy0161 wrote: »

Please add Wexford Bus to the list!

.....and Kavanagh's

bigar

Have to agree that Dublin Bus drivers are the most courteous towards cyclist and indeed other traffic. Bus Eireann are mostly OK to but I did had a few shout at me for god knows what reason.

The worst are Matthews and Sword Express. Not only do they endanger cyclists, they seem to swerve all over the road just to get through. They really could use the training Dublin Bus drivers are getting.

The less said about Taxi's the better

mmmcake

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I don't recall if it passed me again, but if it did I had moved to the cycle lane by that point).
.

so when you where in the cycle lane you had no problems

Danjamin1 wrote: »

There's no need to be a**holes to each other when driving, cycling, walking, etc.

so why don’t you use the cycle lane

Lemming

dubscottie wrote: »

But when cyclists start observing red lights (i.e. when a green man comes on, you stay stopped) then maybe us other road users might start treating you with respect.

Ah ... this old pig-ignorant-as-muck argument.

I'm a cyclist. I'm also a driver. On any given day I see more bad behaviour, aggressive behaviour, poor judgement, lack of attention to surroundings, and .. wait for it ... running red lights by drivers behind the wheel than cyclists. Even statistically speaking, more drivers run lights than cyclists in any given hour, day, year, whatever.

Change the tune, it's old. And a dishonest argument.

mmmcake

Lemming wrote: »

Ah ... this old pig-ignorant-as-muck argument.
Change the tune, it's old. And a dishonest argument.

I'm a driver. I'm also a cyclist. On any given day I see more bad behaviour, aggressive behaviour, poor judgement, lack of attention to surroundings, and .. wait for it ... running red lights by cyclists than drivers behind the wheel. Even statistically speaking, more cyclists run lights than drivers in any given hour, day, year, whatever.

Yea,yea,yea, cyclists are little eco warrior angels saving the planet who are always considerate careful road users.
Use the bike lane and you would have nothing to complain about, me thinks you are just obstreperous dicks looking for trouble.*

*not all, but a sizable percentage.

Danjamin1

mmmcake wrote: »

so why don’t you use the cycle lane

I do use the cycle lanes, are you reading the thread at all?

Nothing worse than a simple mind who can't deviate from their illogical hatred of one group.

LeinsterDub

mmmcake wrote: »

I'm a driver. I'm also a cyclist. On any given day I see more bad behaviour, aggressive behaviour, poor judgement, lack of attention to surroundings, and .. wait for it ... running red lights by cyclists than drivers behind the wheel. Even statistically speaking, more cyclists run lights than drivers in any given hour, day, year, whatever.

Yea,yea,yea, cyclists are little eco warrior angels saving the planet who are always considerate careful road users.
Use the bike lane and you would have nothing to complain about, me thinks you are just obstreperous dicks looking for trouble.*

*not all, but a sizable percentage.

90% of cyclists?
http://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-law-breaking/

One survey found 90% of motorists were breaking the 30km/h zone in Dublin City Centre.

mmmcake

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I do use the cycle lanes, are you reading the thread at all?

Nothing worse than a simple mind who can't deviate from their illogical hatred of one group.

Nothing worse than a ignoramus selfish individual who knows how to remedy their problem, but wont.
Use the cycle lane all the time and you will have NO grievance.

Danjamin1

mmmcake wrote: »

Nothing worse than a ignoramus selfish individual who knows how to remedy their problem, but wont.
Use the cycle lane all the time and you will have NO grievance.

Not when it's unsafe. As I said I'm not doing it to purposefully inconvenience anyone. I use it when necessary. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and I shouldn't be harassed or put in danger because of it.

Pinch Flat

Lemming wrote: »

Ah ... this old pig-ignorant-as-muck argument.

I'm a cyclist. I'm also a driver. On any given day I see more bad behaviour, aggressive behaviour, poor judgement, lack of attention to surroundings, and .. wait for it ... running red lights by drivers behind the wheel than cyclists. Even statistically speaking, more drivers run lights than cyclists in any given hour, day, year, whatever.

Change the tune, it's old. And a dishonest argument.

The only reason more cars don't jumo red lights is physical numbers - 2 or 3 not unusual on my journey to work from carpenters town to merrion square. Cyclists break reds as well. So it's a pretty even match imho - although the taxi sailing through the Amber at Christchurch this morning caused a nasty accident with a bike.

This morning I cycled my child to school. 3 times we had to move people out of the cycle lane and on to the path. Ok if you're travelling slowly, as we were, but at 30kmh it can become dangerous. Same problem in the Phoenix park - joggers, dog walkers etc seem to prefer the cycle lane for some reason - there's a perfectly good path that runs parallel.

I have to say on the quays where I share bus lanes with buses and taxis I never have much hassle - Dublin bus drivers I have to say are generally have excellent awareness towards cyclists. Private bus operators and Bus Eireann not so. Taxi drivers are taxi drivers - expect the unexpected. I'll put myself mid-lane if turning right - this prevents a close over take or cutting in left to pick up a fare. You learn your lesson the hard way.

Danjamin1

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Dublin bus drivers I have to say are generally have excellent awareness towards cyclists.

Should probably mention I agree with this, for every one bad experience there's an abundance of good ones too. The bad ones just stand out unfortunately because they're less common.

Aard

Danjamin1 wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and I shouldn't be harassed or put in danger because of it.

This is the problem. Most people have no idea that it's not a requirement to use a cycle lane/track. Similarly most people have no idea what it's like to cycle on these lanes/tracks. Potholes/gutters/drains/leaves/debris/glass/puddles/you-name-it. All are things that have to be contended with daily. It's easier to deal with then in a car, but on a bike these could easily land you on your face with an injury. The carriageway is often the smoothest, safest place to cycle, even with the hazard of cars.

That's not to mention the biggest nuisance in cycle lanes -- cars!

Lemming

Pinch Flat wrote: »

The only reason more cars don't jumo red lights is physical numbers - 2 or 3 not unusual on my journey to work from carpenters town to merrion square. Cyclists break reds as well. So it's a pretty even match imho - although the taxi sailing through the Amber at Christchurch this morning

No. No it's not a "pretty even match". Not by a long, long country mile. And that's just applying simple statistical probability and nothing else. The largest volume of road-users are using four wheels. And that's a large volume by a wild, wild order of magnitude vs. anything on two wheels, or four legs. So I'm not sure how you can even make such an assertion in the first place :-/

Pinch Flat

Lemming wrote: »

No. No it's not a "pretty even match". Not by a long, long country mile. And that's just applying simple statistical probability and nothing else. The largest volume of road-users are using four wheels. And that's a large volume by a wild, wild order of magnitude vs. anything on two wheels, or four legs. So I'm not sure how you can even make such an assertion in the first place :-/

Pure observation I suppose. Almost every junction I pass on my commute has cars that either break the red lights or cram into the yellow box blocking all forms of traffic from moving. This is my own daily experience in Dublin anyway. As I said, cyclists break red lights and some don't. Cars break red lights as well - some don't.

Danjamin1

Come on lads, don't bring the thread down this route...

Lemming

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Come on lads, don't bring the thread down this route...

Danjamin, you're not going to get satisfaction online save to get a rant off your chest because it just goes around in circles. You know the time, route, and date of the incident with the bus so I think you'd be better served putting in a complaint to Dublin Bus. Whilst the driver may p1ss & moan and call cyclists eco warriors and do an mmmcake/SparkySpitfire number with it, at the back of his mind he'll know he's been warned and adjust his driving, if not his personal attitude.

I'd also get in touch with the relevant county council about the state of disrepair regards the cycle lanes in question.

Other than that, there's not much else to say really other than that some road-users are total cockb1tes. Funnily enough, the worst people to find on roads are pedestrians. I've had more incidents with them than any other road-user in all my years cycling in Dublin, or driving in general anywhere in Ireland or the UK.

Danjamin1

Lemming wrote: »

Danjamin, you're not going to get satisfaction online save to get a rant off your chest because it just goes around in circles. You know the time, route, and date of the incident with the bus so I think you'd be better served putting in a complaint to Dublin Bus.

Ah yeah, I know it's not going to achieve anything productive, I didn't get the route number as the bus pulled in behind me so couldn't make a complaint to Dublin Bus. It's good at the very least to have heard there's to be a request to some bus companies to work on attitudes to cyclists.

Regards mmmcake, I realised I had taken the bait as soon as I responded.

mmmcake

Pinch Flat wrote: »

3 times we had to move people out of the cycle lane and on to the path. Ok if you're travelling slowly, as we were, but at 30kmh it can become dangerous.

The Irony!
Double standards at work.

Pinch Flat

mmmcake wrote: »

The Irony!
Double standards at work.

What double standards? My comment related to cycling lanes being unsuitable for use when travelling at speed - you risk a pedestrian, jogger or someone else who shouldn't be in the lane causing a dangerous situation.

If I want to cycle fast and make up time, I'll use the roads as I'm legally entitled to do. Did you say you're a part time cyclist - surely you'd understand this?

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

The only reason more cars don't jumo red lights is physical numbers - 2 or 3 not unusual on my journey to work from carpenters town to merrion square. Cyclists break reds as well. So it's a pretty even match imho - although the taxi sailing through the Amber at Christchurch this morning caused a nasty accident with a bike.

<snipped>.

How did that work then? Sounds like 2 light jumpers from that brief description,

JayRoc

Sean9015 wrote: »

Re the bold - SO DO CYCLISTS IF THEY ARE ON THE ROAD. The Rukles of the Road apply to you to.

And yes, I did cycle through Dublin when I commuted. I was probably the only cyclist who obeyed the Rules of the Road in that regard. And I would make sure I blocked any cyclists from passing me on the road at a stop line if possible.

You want to cycle on the road? THEN OBEY THE RULES!!!!!

To be fair, I believe he meant that since buses need to stop at traffic lights so regularly on roads like the N11, the quoted 60kph speed was unrealistic. Not that cyclists don't need to stop at lights but that buses do TOO.

I think you are misunderstanding the post.

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

How did that work then? Sounds like 2 light jumpers from that brief description,

Bike had a green light, taxi went through a flashing Orange filter light without stopping.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Bike had a green light, taxi went through a flashing Orange filter light without stopping.

Never really driving that much in Dublin CC nowadays which light is flashing amber, can't figure it from Google maps all the lights I can see look either red/amber/green rather than flashing filter

Beer Assistant

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Bike had a green light, taxi went through a flashing Orange filter light without stopping.

Wow you must be the only person who can see the colour of both traffic lights, most people can only see the colour of the one facing them..

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

Never really driving that much in Dublin CC nowadays which light is flashing amber, can't figure it from Google maps all the lights I can see look either red/amber/green rather than flashing filter

It's the left hand filter lane coming up from Patrick's cathedral turning left toward the Guinness brewery. I checked this out myself and it is indeed a green arrow. So perhaps not an amber arrow, I'm sure it was and there's another such junction past dublinia as you meet they quays.

So by deduction heres the sequence of events:

I'm at the front of the traffic, haven come from the direction of the Guinness brewery stopped at a red light and turning right going towards Patrick's church.

Traffic coming against me (cars, bikes etc) coming from jury's is going through the junction at a green light.

Taxi hits cyclist as he passes the filter lane - there's a car immediately behind the cyclist. It has to be green, because I'm familiar with the junction and the light equence- when the traffic lights coming from jury's direction go red, we are next. We don't get a green for perhaps another 10 seconds or so.

I'm not sure what the taxi driver did to get in that situation, but I'm pretty sure the cyclist wasn't breaking a red light.

Pinch Flat

Gretts_40oz wrote: »

Wow you must be the only person who can see the colour of both traffic lights, most people can only see the colour of the one facing them..

No, but I know if I'm stopped at a red, it's reasonable to assume the lights on the other side are green. Read my reply to spook above before diving in, eh

the groutch

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Next incident was with the same bus on the N11 leading down to the UCD flyover. With the rain yesterday the cycle lane (which is in terrible condition on a good day) was riddled with puddles covering any cracks or potholes so I opted for the Bus lane as the safer choice. The same driver pulled closely behind me honking his horn & then proceeded to pull in to the bus stop behind me.

last time I checked that is a manditory cycle lane (solid white line), so you were in the wrong in this situation.
if you're not happy with the condition of the cycle lanes take it up with the NTA or other relevant authority.

Macy0161

mmmcake wrote: »

Nothing worse than a ignoramus selfish individual who knows how to remedy their problem, but wont.
Use the cycle lane all the time and you will have NO grievance.

Even when they are physically blocked, by road works or broken down (I assume broken down as they have their hazards on :rolleyes: )? As I've had the same experience as the OP when it's clear, or at least should be to anyone paying proper attention, to vehicle drivers why I am on the road rather than the cycle lane.

Seaswimmer

the groutch wrote: »

last time I checked that is a manditory cycle lane (solid white line), so you were in the wrong in this situation.
if you're not happy with the condition of the cycle lanes take it up with the NTA or other relevant authority.

yawn.

Mandatory cycle lane use was repealed a number of years ago..

Macy0161

the groutch wrote: »

last time I checked that is a manditory cycle lane (solid white line), so you were in the wrong in this situation.
if you're not happy with the condition of the cycle lanes take it up with the NTA or other relevant authority.

Mandatory in that context means motorised vehicles aren't allowed to use them, not that cyclist have to use them.

Danjamin1

the groutch wrote: »

last time I checked that is a manditory cycle lane (solid white line), so you were in the wrong in this situation.
if you're not happy with the condition of the cycle lanes take it up with the NTA or other relevant authority.

I'm open to correction on this one but as far as I'm aware there's no such thing as a mandatory cycle lane. The solid white line means traffic is not supposed to cross in to it, it doesn't mean cyclists have to use it.

JayRoc

the groutch wrote: »

last time I checked that is a manditory cycle lane (solid white line), so you were in the wrong in this situation.
if you're not happy with the condition of the cycle lanes take it up with the NTA or other relevant authority.

Incorrect

JayRoc

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I'm open to correction on this one but as far as I'm aware there's no such thing as a mandatory cycle lane. The solid white line means traffic is not supposed to cross in to it, it doesn't mean cyclists have to use it.

Cycle lanes can only be mandatory if A) in a pedestrian area or contraflow.

Danjamin1

JayRoc wrote: »

Cycle lanes can only be mandatory if A) in a pedestrian area or contraflow.

Thanks for clarifying that, funnily enough I've never actually come across an on road contraflow cycle lane! The pedestrian area ones I was aware of though.

cdebru

mmmcake wrote: »

Nothing worse than a ignoramus selfish individual who knows how to remedy their problem, but wont.
Use the cycle lane all the time and you will have NO grievance.

Sorry but beeping at a cyclist who has every right to be there is the selfish ignoramus, there is nothing special about you because you choose to drive, that the road should be cleared for you, it is everyone's road not just yours, learn to share it.

cdebru

the groutch wrote: »

last time I checked that is a manditory cycle lane (solid white line), so you were in the wrong in this situation.
if you're not happy with the condition of the cycle lanes take it up with the NTA or other relevant authority.

Ouch, better to not call right or wrong till you know the actual rules yourself, solid line means other roadusers can't enter it doesn't mean cyclists are under any obligation to cycle in it .

LeinsterDub

the groutch wrote: »

last time I checked that is a manditory cycle lane (solid white line), so you were in the wrong in this situation.
if you're not happy with the condition of the cycle lanes take it up with the NTA or other relevant authority.

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/372750165666316288

cdebru

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Bike had a green light, taxi went through a flashing Orange filter light without stopping.

Doesn't surprise me standard of driving ability or road awareness amongst taxi drivers in general is shockingly bad, I had one myself today he was stopped picking up a fare so I went to go around him, as I'm alongside him he starts to drive off, I move to just in front of him still on his outside and he accelerates and under takes me on the inside, inches from me. Taxi drivers should have to do advanced driver training IMO

Pinch Flat

cdebru wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me standard of driving ability or road awareness amongst taxi drivers in general is shockingly bad, I had one myself today he was stopped picking up a fare so I went to go around him, as I'm alongside him he starts to drive off, I move to just in front of him still on his outside and he accelerates and under takes me on the inside, inches from me. Taxi drivers should have to do advanced driver training IMO

Being honest all road users could do with a lesson on cop on. I've seen stupidity daily well distributed amongst cyclists, drivers, taxis, delivery trucks, rickshaws - the list goes on. At the end of the day a boy of common courtesy goes a long way no matter what your mode of transport.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's the left hand filter lane coming up from Patrick's cathedral turning left toward the Guinness brewery. I checked this out myself and it is indeed a green arrow. So perhaps not an amber arrow, I'm sure it was and there's another such junction past dublinia as you meet they quays.

So by deduction heres the sequence of events:

I'm at the front of the traffic, haven come from the direction of the Guinness brewery stopped at a red light and turning right going towards Patrick's church.

Traffic coming against me (cars, bikes etc) coming from jury's is going through the junction at a green light.

Taxi hits cyclist as he passes the filter lane - there's a car immediately behind the cyclist. It has to be green, because I'm familiar with the junction and the light equence- when the traffic lights coming from jury's direction go red, we are next. We don't get a green for perhaps another 10 seconds or so.

I'm not sure what the taxi driver did to get in that situation, but I'm pretty sure the cyclist wasn't breaking a red light.

So the only real conclusion then is that one or other of them passed a red, given the amount of complaints about cars jumping reds it's just as feasible that the cyclist and the following car were in the wrong.

Now given your statements

I'm at the front of the traffic, haven come from the direction of the Guinness brewery stopped at a red light and turning right going towards Patrick's church.

and

when the traffic lights coming from jury's direction go red, we are next.

Then the lights were on red for the cyclist

Anyways we'll leave it for the Garda to sort out I assume you put yourself forward as an eye witness

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

No, but I know if I'm stopped at a red, it's reasonable to assume the lights on the other side are green. Read my reply to spook above before diving in, eh

Actually, on an unknown junction I'd always assume that ( unless there's some indication ) that green from both directions/ red from both directions.

i.e
If I saw this traffic light


I'd assume that oncoming traffic had a green to

Whereas if I saw this green traffic light


I would assume that they had a red when the arrow was lit

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

So the only real conclusion then is that one or other of them passed a red, given the amount of complaints about cars jumping reds it's just as feasible that the cyclist and the following car were in the wrong.

Now given your statements


and


Then the lights were on red for the cyclist

Anyways we'll leave it for the Garda to sort out I assume you put yourself forward as an eye witness

Ah good old spook, twisting the truth and jumping to conclusions. Perish the thought a taxi man was in the wrong - those bastions of rules and manners on the road.

I was stopped at a red and the traffic coming the other way had a green. I was there - I am familiar with the junction, you weren't. Stop stirring it. And yes I offered myself as a witness - as did half a dozen other people. An expensive day for the taxi driver. And a cyclist is injured while legally using the road

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

Actually, on an unknown junction I'd always assume that ( unless there's some indication ) that green from both directions/ red from both directions.

i.e
If I saw this traffic light


I'd assume that oncoming traffic had a green to

Whereas if I saw this green traffic light


I would assume that they had a red when the arrow was lit

All well and good - but you should never assume what another light is indicating. You can only adhere to what's in front of you. Anyway you're adamant that Mr taxi man was somehiw exonerated given what I witnessed above.

Again, I was stopped at a red. The traffic coming against me had a green, the reason I am certain of this is that when the opposite traffic goes red, the way in which I'm travelling goes green. This morning there was a good 10 seconds between the taxi hitting the cyclist and my light going green - so unless someone changed the sequence overnight, the cyclist and the following car were proceeding on a green.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah good old spook, twisting the truth and jumping to conclusions. Perish the thought a taxi man was in the wrong - those bastions of rules and manners on the road.

I was stopped at a red and the traffic coming the other way had a green. I was there - I am familiar with the junction, you weren't. Stop stirring it. And yes I offered myself as a witness - as did half a dozen other people. An expensive day for the taxi driver. And a cyclist is injured while legally using the road

Not twisting anything, just stating how your post reads, as I said someone was in the wrong and the Garda should be able to sort it

Danjamin1

Heres hoping the poor cyclist is ok

monument

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not twisting anything, just stating how your post reads, as I said someone was in the wrong and the Garda should be able to sort it

Given the description which Pinch Flat vs your complete lack of knowledge, we're going to leave it at that given that it is derailing the thread. In future it's also best that you don't get too carried away with derailing future threads when it's claimed that one single motorist has broken a red or amber light -- these things happen all the time.

-- Moderator

Snickers Man

cdebru wrote: »

Everyone that drives should be made to cycle at least one day a year. Until you cycle and see the state of cycle lanes , the ridiculous idea of having them up on the path so you have to stop at every junction, or traffic lights that you press the button and nothing happens for up to 5 minutes.

What's ridiculous about that? That's the way they do it in most European countries. Especially the ones with extensive cycle lanes, like Germany in particular.

Much safer for cyclists.

And so what if you have to "stop at every junction". Got a problem with that, get a jetpack.

Jawgap

Snickers Man wrote: »

What's ridiculous about that? That's the way they do it in most European countries. Especially the ones with extensive cycle lanes, like Germany in particular.

Much safer for cyclists.

And so what if you have to "stop at every junction". Got a problem with that, get a jetpack.

Or just cycle on the road.

Off road / segregated cycle paths in Ireland are not safe for cyclists - they tend to be badly constructed and not maintained to even a minimal level. For example the ones through Fairveiw and Drumcondra are characterised by uneven and broken surfaces and are lethal when the tree overhanging them drop their leaves, because they are never cleaned.

Then there's the joggers, pedestrians, dogwalkers etc.