Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Clinicaly dead pregnant woman on life support

Options
1…1112141617…44

Comments

  • Options
    #392
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    It's hardly a termination, it's allowing nature to take it's course. The mother is dead, the baby should have died too. I find the idea of using a dead woman as an incubator a bit grotesque tbh.

    Most of us should be dead if it wasn't for medicine.


  • Options
    #393
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    Nature has also allowed humans to develop the technology to keep fetuses alive.

    And to end a pregnancy.


  • Options
    #394
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Sure there is. It's only if you believe the foetus is a person/has a soul that somehow destined to be that your list of justifications are relevant.

    We don't all believe it, but if you have any concrete proof I am listening.

    I have no idea what a soul is tbh. The fetus however is a living thing that will turn into a baby and a baby is a human. I am the kind of person that will avoid killing any living thing because what right do I have to end another living things life?

    The way I look at it is if there is no legitimate reasons to kill something then why kill it?


  • Options
    #395
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    And to end a pregnancy.

    The point was that we should let Nature take its course but humans can prevent something from dying when it would have otherwise. A human choosing to end life is different to nature ending life. Nature does not choose.


  • Options
    #396
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    The mother died of natural causes. Without the intervention of man, and his machines, the foetus would be dead. It is essentially being kept because of the most ridiculous law Ireland and its religious right has ever colluded together to enforce, due to ideology and mysogyny.
    That is the legitimate reason.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #397
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    I have no idea what a soul is tbh. The fetus however is a living thing that will turn into a baby and a baby is a human. I am the kind of person that will avoid killing any living thing because what right do I have to end another living things life?

    The way I look at it is if there is no legitimate reasons to kill something then why kill it?

    It's not a baby yet, no doubt it will be by the time the cowards in control here drag their feet to avoid making a decision.

    And by god you'd better be a vegatarian with that pitch.


  • Options
    #398
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    dharma200 wrote: »
    The mother died of natural causes. Without the intervention of man, and his machines, the foetus would be dead. It is essentially being kept because of the most ridiculous law Ireland and its religious right has ever colluded together to enforce, due to ideology and mysogyny.
    That is the legitimate reason.

    Have a chat with yourself


  • Options
    #399
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    Chance The Fapper wrote: »
    Have a chat with yourself

    excuse me? can you elaborate on that?


  • Options
    #400
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    dharma200 wrote: »
    excuse me? can you elaborate on that?

    It's nothing to do with misogyny.


  • Options
    #401
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    Chance The Fapper wrote: »
    It's nothing to do with misogyny.

    right. thanks for that.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #402
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    dharma200 wrote: »
    The mother died of natural causes. Without the intervention of man, and his machines, the foetus would be dead. It is essentially being kept because of the most ridiculous law Ireland and its religious right has ever colluded together to enforce, due to ideology and mysogyny.
    That is the legitimate reason.

    So what is your view on medicine. Ever been inoculated? We have been fighting nature for a very long time, we constantly choose to not let nature take its course especially when it comes to survival of our own kind.


  • Options
    #403
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    The woman is dead.
    This has nothing to do with innoculations or medicine.


  • Options
    #404
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    So what is your view on medicine. Ever been inoculated? We have been fighting nature for a very long time, we constantly choose to not let nature take its course especially when it comes to survival of our own kind.


    Unless it's starving actual kids. We make that decision every day.


  • Options
    #405
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    It's not a baby yet, no doubt it will be by the time the cowards in control here drag their feet to avoid making a decision.

    And by god you'd better be a vegatarian with that pitch.

    How do you know someones a vegetarian?
    That' the reason why I never tell anyone :D


  • Options
    #406
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    How do you know someones a vegetarian?
    That' the reason why I never tell anyone :D

    Plants are living things. Your arguments are weak even for a vegatarian pro lifer...


  • Options
    #407
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    dharma200 wrote: »
    The woman is dead.

    Yes she is and has her child still growing in her that the parents are choosing to terminate by pulling the plug but are being prevented by medical professionals for some reason (i presume because they believe the child can survive).

    The question is, is it right to pull the plug when there is a possibility this child will survive and if so what is the justification for doing so?


  • Options
    #408
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Plants are living things. Your arguments are weak even for a vegatarian pro lifer...

    is being called a pro lifer an insult?

    Anyway if you read back I mention I am for termination if the mothers life is in danger and or has been raped and does not want to have the child of the perpetrator.

    That makes me pro choice.

    In this particular case the mothers life is not in risk and there has been no mention of whether she was going to terminate anyway so in my opinion there is no justification as of yet.


  • Options
    #409
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    even in Texas they know this is abhorrent to the family where a judge ruled in the same situation that the woman should be allowed to die with dignity. The medical proffesionals are keeping her on life support due to the absoloutley ridiculous situation regarding the 8th ammendment, whereby a feotus is given the same rights as a woman. This means the woman is not treatewd as an autonomous being. This is why the doctors are keeping life ssupport on, becuase they are against one of the most inhuman outrageous laws that is currently active in the state of ireland. It has nothing to do with viability.


  • Options
    #410
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    It is not for some whoevers on the internet to decide. her family are her next of kin. They are the ones who are going through this **** storm due to the most insulting idiotic laws in ireland regarding health care of women and the womans right to bodily autonomy. Dead is dead.


  • Options
    #411
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    is being called a pro lifer an insult?

    Anyway if you read back I mention I am for termination if the mothers life is in danger and or has been raped and does not want to have the child of the perpetrator.

    That makes me pro choice.

    In this particular case the mothers life is not in risk and there has been no mention of whether she was going to terminate anyway so in my opinion there is no justification as of yet.

    No, it's just a statement of fact. You are for the wishes of her parents, the only people left to say what she would have wanted, to be ignored for the rights of a not yet existing child.

    Something very telling about the way you keep saying justification.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #412
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    dharma200 wrote: »
    It is not for some whoevers on the internet to decide. her family are her next of kin. They are the ones who are going through this **** storm due to the most insulting idiotic laws in ireland regarding health care of women and the womans right to bodily autonomy. Dead is dead.


    Maybe you can give me a good reason as to why a pregnant mother might want the pug pulled? For the sake of the parents suffering? Is that a good enough reason?


  • Options
    #413
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    bodice ripper wrote: »

    Something very telling about the way you keep saying justification.

    elaborate?

    I just think things need to be justified. Taxes, laws, showering, ending a life...... Would you not agree?

    (i could probably use a better word than justification, but i cant think of one)


  • Options
    #414
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    Maybe you can give me a good reason as to why a pregnant mother might want the pug pulled? For the sake of the parents suffering? Is that a good enough reason?

    Not just her parents suffer, her existing children will suffer because of this and being forced to keep your dead daughter's body alive is positively warped. It's not an inconvenience to delay the grieving process, it's a trauma that many cannot cope with. And the simple fact is in most normal nations, the decision remains with the next of kin.


  • Options
    #415
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    You are for the wishes of her parents, the only people left to say what she would have wanted, to be ignored for the rights of a not yet existing child.

    Why should the parents be judge and jury over a fetuses future? Yes if they are next of kin they can decide on behalf of the daughter in relation to life support but the fetus can still grow and should have some rights no?


  • Options
    #416
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    elaborate?

    I just think things need to be justified. Taxes, laws, showering, ending a life...... Would you not agree?

    (i could probably use a better word than justification, but i cant think of one)

    No, I don't. Not if you can't prove there is another person involved. Which you can't.


  • Options
    #417
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    B_Wayne wrote: »
    Not just her parents suffer, her existing children will suffer because of this and being forced to keep your dead daughter's body alive is positively warped. It's not an inconvenience to delay the grieving process, it's a trauma that many cannot cope with. And the simple fact is in most normal nations, the decision remains with the next of kin.

    People are put into induced coma's and on life support with the hope of a recovery. Look at michael schumacher. In this case the hope is for the child to be born so why is it warped?

    Just because the parents are experiencing trauma is still not justification to end the fetuses life.


  • Options
    #418
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,952 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Where is Dad?

    UH, I forgot, he is not married to the woman, so has no rights at all in this matter.

    That is not right IMV


  • Options
    #419
    bogwalrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    No, I don't. Not if you can't prove there is another person involved. Which you can't.

    So if I go off an shoot someone I don't need to justify my actions in a court of law and the court then does not need to justify why they have sentenced me to death even though there is very little evidence?

    What do you mean prove another person is involved? You mean prove that the fetus should have some rights?

    The woman is dead, The fetus is not. Technically the fetus has more rights because it is alive?


  • Options
    #420
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    So if I go off an shoot someone I don't need to justify my actions in a court of law and the court then does not need to justify why they have sentenced me to death even though there is very little evidence?

    What do you mean prove another person is involved? You mean prove that the fetus should have some rights?

    The woman is dead, The fetus is not. Technically the fetus has more rights because it is alive?

    That's the one.

    Bacteria are alive.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #421
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Where is Dad?

    UH, I forgot, he is not married to the woman, so has no rights at all in this matter.

    That is not right IMV

    Has he spoken out on this matter?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement