Clinicaly dead pregnant woman on life support

eviltwin

osarusan wrote: »

I was wondering - who hired this barrsister? I mean, where did he come from?

Family, partner, HSE on one side - who is the other side?

I think part of the Protection of Life bill was that the unborn were granted their own legal representation so the government maybe?

Raging_Ninja

Just read this on the RTE news website:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1224/668781-high-court-pregnancy/

Lawyers for the mother said they were not conceding that she was dead.

Senior Counsel Cormac Corrigan said they accepted her state was irreversible.

There seems to be a big disconnect here. Brain death means death. The person is gone. All that is left is a shell of a body

Precious flower

The fact that this even required a court case is ridiculous. The family want t turn off life support, the HSE and countless doctors have stated the chance of the baby's survival is tiny and they are all happy to turn off her life support. I mean the woman herself is decomposing! If the family have expressed a desire to turn off life support than it should be done rather than putting them through such heartache. The law needs to be changed. It's absurd! I feel so bad for the family going through that.

Strazdas

We're paying the price for fundamentalist fanatics being allowed to dictate affairs in the 1980s.

It must seem astonishing to younger people in Ireland today that these lunatics were listened to as if they were sane and rational human beings. It's profoundly depressing that in 2014 that we still haven't faced up to the abortion issue and think that sending women to the UK en masse for abortions is a perfectly reasonable solution.

bodice ripper

bogwalrus wrote: »

Seriously now. You just have some anger against me for just contributing my views on a very complicated issue.

You can't just bully people into thinking the way you think.

I also do not appreciate you making me out to be some disguisting monster which I most certainly am not.

maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully.

Fat Christy

Very difficult situation to be in. Not sure what I'd do in that instance.

I can understand where the family are coming from, I couldn't imagine being in a situation where one of my loved ones was clinically dead and was being kept on life support for a prolonged period of time. I would want the life support machine to be turned off.

There is also the question of who is going to mind the child. Is the dad around or will the child be left with the grandparents?

Really difficult. God love that family.

daisybelle2008

Strazdas wrote: »

We're paying the price for fundamentalist fanatics being allowed to dictate affairs in the 1980s.

It must seem astonishing to younger people in Ireland today that these lunatics were listened to as if they were sane and rational human beings. It's profoundly depressing that in 2014 that we still haven't faced up to the abortion issue and think that sending women to the UK en masse for abortions is a perfectly reasonable solution.

They were given a lot of air-time, look at this link. Fr Cleary (the hypocrite) having free reign on prime time t.v and even using handicapped children to manipulate the 8th amendment debate.. You have to feel for Monica Barnes and Anne o'Donnell, not allowed get a word in.

http://youtu.be/hOnoCOSwzwM

efb

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Just read this on the RTE news website:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1224/668781-high-court-pregnancy/


There seems to be a big disconnect here. Brain death means death. The person is gone. All that is left is a shell of a body

Is she is dead then the foetus would have all the rights

Strazdas

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

They were given a lot of air-time, look at this link. Fr Cleary (the hypocrite) having free reign on prime time t.v and even using handicapped children to manipulate the 8th amendment debate.. You have to feel for Monica Barnes and Anne o'Donnell, not allowed get a word in.

http://youtu.be/hOnoCOSwzwM

Yes, they were given an unbelievable amount of airtime on shows like The Late Late Show, but alarmingly they were treated as if they were normal rational people with a perfectly valid viewpoint, and not as the religious extremists and fanatics they were.

What's depressing is that not only were they listened to but they actually got their way and we've ended up with the almighty shambles that is abortion law in Ireland.

Stheno

Some serious semantics in court with one of the lawyers (think he is representing the unborn) arguing that the Irish language version of the 8th Amendment affords greater rights to the unborn than the English language version

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/unborn-right-to-life-surpasses-mother-s-right-to-dignified-death-court-told-1.2048425

drkpower

Stheno wrote: »

Some serious semantics in court with one of the lawyers (think he is representing the unborn) arguing that the Irish language version of the 8th Amendment affords greater rights to the unborn than the English language version

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/unborn-right-to-life-surpasses-mother-s-right-to-dignified-death-court-told-1.2048425

Not semantics; Irish text is favoured over English where they mean different things. Could be very relevant here.

Cunning Stunt

Jesus could they not have put a rush on this case, switched off the machine and not leave the poor family hanging over Christmas?! what a nightmare and God love those little kids who have to see their mammy laid out like that and changing before their eyes. That would traumatize you for life I can imagine!

Infini

Realistically it shouldnt have ever come to this. The mother is dead. Her brain is beginning to decompose for crying out loud. The fetus is not even far enough along to survive. Itd be one thing if it was close enough to survive outside the womb by a few days or weeks but its not even close to that.

Noone can argue prolife or whatever about this because at the end of the day both wouldve been dead from NATURAL causes. This is basically borderline human experimentation. The 8th amendment is a joke as well and should be removed. Regardless of what people say when it comes to fertility issues the only ones who should have a say are those directly involved as in the mother and father and noone else.

Hopefully common sense will see through in the end.

DuchessduJour

Stheno wrote: »

Some serious semantics in court with one of the lawyers (think he is representing the unborn) arguing that the Irish language version of the 8th Amendment affords greater rights to the unborn than the English language version

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/unborn-right-to-life-surpasses-mother-s-right-to-dignified-death-court-told-1.2048425

The Irish version of the text takes precedence over the English version though, so any semantic differences are potentially very important.

Stheno

drkpower wrote: »

Not semantics; Irish text is favoured over English where they mean different things. Could be very relevant here.

I actually never knew that Irish had precedence over English text. Apparently the difference has already been addressed by the Supreme court in the past.

daisybelle2008

eviltwin wrote: »

I think part of the Protection of Life bill was that the unborn were granted their own legal representation so the government maybe?

It seems ridiculous, I mean that makes an assumption the unborn 'wants' to be born in these circumstances. Maybe the unborn wants to rest in peace too and not be experimented on, pumped full of dangerous drugs, overheated in a decaying corpse and deformed? Not that I take the view it is capable of those sentient feelings. I just think it is kind of arrogant to be representing the rights of a foetus, I mean that is just using them to promote one sided argument. It's not giving them rights!

eviltwin

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

It seems ridiculous, I mean that makes an assumption the unborn 'wants' to be born in these circumstances. Maybe the unborn wants to rest in peace too and not be experimented on, pumped full of dangerous drugs, overheated in a decaying corpse and deformed? Not that I take the view it is capable of those sentient feelings. I just think it is kind of arrogant to be representing the rights of a foetus, I mean that is just using them to promote one sided argument. It's not giving them rights!

It's nuts. We're talking about a foetus that won't even be legally recognised as a person if nature is allowed to take it course. There will be no death cert. But we still have to go through this farce.

Strazdas

eviltwin wrote: »

It's nuts. We're talking about a foetus that won't even be legally recognised as a person if nature is allowed to take it course. There will be no death cert. But we still have to go through this farce.

It's not only nuts, but downright disgusting. Hopefully these horrific cases which keep happening will force the politicians to seize the mettle once and for all....they've run away from this issue for decades (as Fintan O'Toole pointed out recently, we're the only country in the whole of Europe which hasn't legislated for abortion).

RobertKK

This has nothing to do with abortion or the 8th amendment.
It has everything to do with the right to a natural death, what is happening in this case is a violation of the woman's right to a natural death.

Hopefully this case is closed in two days time with the machines being turned off and her family being able to start the grieving process in a private manner without media intrusion.

Foxhound38

Strazdas wrote: »

It's not only nuts, but downright disgusting. Hopefully these horrific cases which keep happening will force the politicians to seize the mettle once and for all....they've run away from this issue for decades (as Fintan O'Toole pointed out recently, we're the only country in the whole of Europe which hasn't legislated for abortion).

It should, but it won't. The rosary bead brigade is too strong a vote and the likes of Youth Defence is too well funded with american money. After the last bill's ****storm, there's no way FG are going to touch this again with a bargepoll this close to an election.

Which is more than a bit depressing.

Baggy Trousers

eviltwin wrote: »

It's nuts. We're talking about a foetus that won't even be legally recognised as a person if nature is allowed to take it course. There will be no death cert. But we still have to go through this farce.

It's very cruel that the next of kin do not get their wishes in this case. It's quite sick really.
The law needs to be clarified to avoid media circuses and court cases like this.
I really feel sorry for the family and indeed the doctors.

Baggy Trousers

RobertKK wrote: »

This has nothing to do with abortion or the 8th amendment.
It has everything to do with the right to a natural death, what is happening in this case is a violation of the woman's right to a natural death.

Hopefully this case is closed in two days time with the machines being turned off and her family being able to start the grieving process in a private manner without media intrusion.

Agreed, I cant understand why they have to wait until the 26th. She has been dead over 3 weeks now.

Foxhound38

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

They were given a lot of air-time, look at this link. Fr Cleary (the hypocrite) having free reign on prime time t.v and even using handicapped children to manipulate the 8th amendment debate.. You have to feel for Monica Barnes and Anne o'Donnell, not allowed get a word in.

http://youtu.be/hOnoCOSwzwM

That just makes me angry watching that.

A priest-ridden sh*thole, to be sure. :mad:

bogwalrus

bodice ripper wrote: »

maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully.

Stop trolling please.

Stark

Foxhound38 wrote: »

It should, but it won't. The rosary bead brigade is too strong a vote and the likes of Youth Defence is too well funded with american money. After the last bill's ****storm, there's no way FG are going to touch this again with a bargepoll this close to an election.

Which is more than a bit depressing.

I think even the rosary bead brigade have been taken aback by this incident. It was somewhat heartening to listen to my normally conservative mass going parents/grandparents over the holidays talking in terms of "We made a mistake voting for that clause in the constitution" and "I really hope the pro-life crowd stay out of things this time".

ProfessorPlum

RobertKK wrote: »

This has nothing to do with abortion or the 8th amendment.
It has everything to do with the right to a natural death, what is happening in this case is a violation of the woman's right to a natural death.

Hopefully this case is closed in two days time with the machines being turned off and her family being able to start the grieving process in a private manner without media intrusion.

Why do you think we are here then? Why do you think her right to a natural death is being denied, when as we have heard, her family and everyone involved in her care are in favour of allowing her to 'die'.

If you are in favour of the 8th amendment, then stand up and take responsibility for it and stop making excuses.

This is exactly the sort of thing I said would happen yesterday.

hotmail.com

RobertKK wrote: »

This has nothing to do with abortion or the 8th amendment.
It has everything to do with the right to a natural death, what is happening in this case is a violation of the woman's right to a natural death.

Hopefully this case is closed in two days time with the machines being turned off and her family being able to start the grieving process in a private manner without media intrusion.

The idea that this has nothing to do with the 8th amendment is just beyond a joke at this stage.

The judge said today the 8th amendment is a factor in this case.

It's only when the detail emerged about her awful state and condition and the human side was publicised, that it now seems most people are in favour of the machine being turned off.

That was not the case a few days ago.

RobertKK

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Why do you think we are here then? Why do you think her right to a natural death is being denied, when as we have heard, her family and everyone involved in her care are in favour of allowing her to 'die'.

If you are in favour of the 8th amendment, then stand up and take responsibility for it and stop making excuses.

This is exactly the sort of thing I said would happen yesterday.

Looking at the HSE arguing the machines should be turned off, I would question why some employee of the HSE thought this had anything to with the unborn and the 8th amendment.

The 8th amendment doesn't require doctors to keep a dead person alive.

I expect this to be the result on Friday.

Shrap

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Why do you think we are here then? Why do you think her right to a natural death is being denied, when as we have heard, her family and everyone involved in her care are in favour of allowing her to 'die'.

If you are in favour of the 8th amendment, then stand up and take responsibility for it and stop making excuses.

This is exactly the sort of thing I said would happen yesterday.

Well said. Robertkkk is here whitewashing the situation with the same conniving tripe that the likes of Prof William Binchy and Prof Patricia Casey have been spewing for the last few days, having been given airtime YET AGAIN for their dangerous views. They are two of the people who were part of the PLAC lobby group that brought us the 8th amendment btw.

Claiming that this has nothing to do with the 8th is really the lowest thing anyone has said up here in two days. Do you think we all came down in the last shower KKK? FFS.

GLaDOS

bogwalrus wrote: »

Stop trolling please.

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