IAG bids for Aer Lingus

Pat Dunne

Marcusm wrote: »

They can't be as civil servants also get to keep theirs! The Revenue justification is that there is no "cost" to the employer which is generally untrue. Some airlines have pooling or other schemes to allow employers to recover some value from miles - see BA's OnBusiness programme.

Car parking spaces are also not subject to BIK for the same reason, ie there would be uproar amongst civil servants.

By the way, I am not engaging in PS bashing - just reflecting on the reality of the situation. I have benefited from miles and free parking more than most.

I would look at what you have said and instead of "They can't be"..... It should be "They won't be"!
I seem to recall many years ago when Duty Free was been phased out that there was a deregation put in place for Civil Servants working for the EU to retain there Duty Free refund allowance
Says it all really.

ImDave

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Personally I believe that Gold Circle awards/points should be taxed as "Benefit in Kind", same as a company car, free or subsidised accommodation or preferential loans, received from an employer.

It would be difficult to draw a clear line between miles/benefits earned as a result of work travel paid for by an employer, and personal travel.

For example, I have status from a combination of personal travel, employer-paid travel, and travel arising from self-employment. I would imagine it would be an accounting nightmare, and realistically for people like myself anyway who don't have a huge amount of points, the potential BIK would be tiny.

Possibly a different scenario for someone who is earning multiple free TATL flights or upgrades all as a result of employer-paid travel however, particularly at the if the employer is public/state.

Pat Dunne

ImDave wrote: »

It would be difficult to draw a clear line between miles/benefits earned as a result of work travel paid for by an employer, and personal travel..................

Can't see how, either you trip is work related or not and thats why you pay an accountant to do your tax returns.

MJohnston

They can tax it as a benefit in kind when they give me some other incentive to devote 10-12 hours of my personal time (usually weekends) to sitting in a metal tube away from my family and friends. Only people who don't have to do regular business travel think that it's exciting and fun.

Pat Dunne

MJohnston wrote: »

They can tax it as a benefit in kind when they give me some other incentive to devote 10-12 hours of my personal time (usually weekends) to sitting in a metal tube away from my family and friends. Only people who don't have to do regular business travel think that it's exciting and fun.

I use to be in a metal box on wheels for 30 hours a week. Staying away 3/4 nights a week from my family and friends. Spending another 30 hours per week meeting with customers as a Company Representative travelling Ireland.

Yet I was taxed for the use of my company car.

I do agree with you real business travel has little glamour.

MJohnston

Pat Dunne wrote: »

I use to be in a metal box on wheels for 30 hours a week. Staying away 3/4 nights a week from my family and friends. Spending another 30 hours per week meeting with customers as a Company Representative travelling Ireland.

Yet I was taxed.

I do agree real business travel has little glamour.

Of course you were taxed, just like I am/the company I work for is as well. An equivalent here would be you using a fuel rewards card every time you filled up, and then got taxed on the rewards from that.

Pat Dunne

MJohnston wrote: »

Of course you were taxed, just like I am/the company I work for is as well. An equivalent here would be you using a fuel rewards card every time you filled up, and then got taxed on the rewards from that.

On top of my normal PAYE, PRSI etc, I was additionally taxed with Benefit in Kind for having of a company car. So I can't see any valid reason why one should not have to pay tax for something earned as a result of a work generated income/reward.

ImDave

Pat Dunne wrote: »

On top of my normal PAYE, PRSI and USC I was additionally taxed with Benefit in Kind for having of a company car. So I can't see any valid reason why one should not have to pay tax for something you earn as a result of work generated income/reward.

You are being taxed on BIK for only the personal element of usage on your company car as your company bares the cost of providing for that personal usage, something you would have to pay for privately otherwise.

Your employer does not bear the cost associated with the use of airline awards for personal use - the airline does. Yes they may be paying for some or all of the flights on which the awards were earned, but that is an indirect benefit offered at the discretion of the airline, and I would argue is completely different to the personal usage of a company car.

IRLConor

Another problem with trying to tax points/miles/whatever as BIK is that you'd have to put a monetary value on them. Good luck with that.

Even if you tried to assess the tax on the benefit actually received from using them you'd have a horrible time. If you spend 500 magic bean points to upgrade from economy to business class, is that equivalent to the difference between a full fare Y and full fare J ticket? The price of a last minute cash upgrade at check-in? The minimum bid in a bid-to-upgrade scheme? And that's an easy scenario. If I spend 1000 magic bean points to renew my membership at a particular tier in a scheme I get privileges like priority boarding. How should I be taxed for the privilege of not having to queue?

It would be a waste of time for Revenue to chase people over frequent flier benefits. The amount of money they'd recover would be tiny.

MJohnston

Pat Dunne wrote: »

On top of my normal PAYE, PRSI etc, I was additionally taxed with Benefit in Kind for having of a company car. So I can't see any valid reason why one should not have to pay tax for something earned as a result of a work generated income/reward.

Having a company car is far from equal to getting a few hundred Gold Circle points imo.

L1011

BIKing loyalty points would require them to BIK all of them. Including filling station points on fuel that is likely already notionally BIKed for company cars and vans...

How would you value Topaz points anyway - the coffee and danish most people get or the car / ten grand holiday one person gets

Our CEO books Plus fares on shorthaul every time to ensure he keeps his status which muddies the water a bit further - he's not using the checked bag or seat selection, the company is paying that extra 20 or 32 or whatever it is these days for points alone.

murphaph

Meh, I don't benefit from these air miles as I very seldom fly anywhere for work (and I'm glad I don't-I value the time with my family too much for all that) but I wouldn't have a problem with these poor souls just being left alone by the tax man wrt these air miles. Most people flying for work have decent jobs and are (IMHO) already paying more than enough income tax compared to some.

Pat Dunne

ImDave wrote: »

You are being taxed on BIK for only the personal element of usage on your company car as your company bares the cost of providing for that personal usage, something you would have to pay for privately otherwise.

Your employer does not bear the cost associated with the use of airline awards for personal use - the airline does. Yes they may be paying for some or all of the flights on which the awards were earned, but that is an indirect benefit offered at the discretion of the airline, and I would argue is completely different to the personal usage of a company car.

ImDave, I think we'll agree to dissagree on this one.
However it is my belief, that if an individual earns a personal reward from business related travel, that individual should pay tax, similar to what is done in Sweden.

The_Wanderer

Tenger wrote: »

Al GC members have now received emails about the new AerClub program which awards Avios.

TheWanderer posted this response from their customer team in the IAG thread: (emphasis is mine)

I should just add the email from them was in relation to me emailing them on the back of the rumours on the IAG thread that applicant members would lose their points, which I asked them to clarify.

Calina

Pat Dunne wrote: »

On top of my normal PAYE, PRSI etc, I was additionally taxed with Benefit in Kind for having of a company car. So I can't see any valid reason why one should not have to pay tax for something earned as a result of a work generated income/reward.

Are you assuming that these are always work related trips?

Pat Dunne

Calina wrote: »

Are you assuming that these are always work related trips?

I am assuming nothing re-read my post.

Tenger

Any chance that we could all take the "benefit in kind taxation options" debate into a more financial orientated forum.

LiamaDelta

I flew DUB to LCY (BA Cityflyer) last week and noticed that the flight had EI codeshare numbers and BA announcements/welcome call EI their codeshare partner - was this always the case or is it just since the takeover? I know it was on the LHR & LGW routes but had never noticed it before on LCY.

MuffinsDa

Since the takeover. BA now show EI options during booking and EI sells DUBLCY on their site too.

LXFlyer

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/102349/ba-and-aer-lingus-codeshares-expand-to-us-routes

IAG group airlines British Airways and Aer Lingus are extending their codeshare agreement on routes to the US.

The expansion comes into effect on December 10 and includes all flights to/from London Heathrow, London Gatwick, Dublin and Shannon, reports airlineroute.net.

Locker10a

lxflyer wrote: »

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/102349/ba-and-aer-lingus-codeshares-expand-to-us-routes

So EI flight numbers will appear on all BA transatlantic flights ? Hopefully they will expand this to certain Asian routes and perhaps South African and South American flights that are popular among Irish people

Nonoperational

They need to sort the lounge situation in T2 LHR. Travelling on a BA ticket from US to ORK it would be nice/expected to have lounge access in T2 as one world sapphire.

Marcusm

Nonoperational wrote: »

They need to sort the lounge situation in T2 LHR. Travelling on a BA ticket from US to ORK it would be nice/expected to have lounge access in T2 as one world sapphire.

OneWorld Sapphire but not BAEC Silver? I imagine this will be sorted when EI joined OW. BA Silver already had lounge access prior to takeover.

Nonoperational

Yeah AA acquired sapphire. Just a quirk until they get more integrated I imagine.

LiamaDelta

I was looking at flights to London next year on the BA website. They seem to have some unusual pricing structure. All EI flights were priced at €300 each way yet the BA flights are around €106. Then if you select a BA flight for your outbound leg you only have the options of BA flights for return. Also all flights to Gatwick were €268 each way each day...no variation. I wonder is it a case of putting in standard prices for EI flights on the BA system until they are fully integrated? Seems like they are doing a bit of a disservice to EI in the short term as you can go onto the EI website and get them cheaper.

Locker10a

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I was looking at flights to London next year on the BA website. They seem to have some unusual pricing structure. All EI flights were priced at €300 each way yet the BA flights are around €106. Then if you select a BA flight for your outbound leg you only have the options of BA flights for return. Also all flights to Gatwick were €268 each way each day...no variation. I wonder is it a case of putting in standard prices for EI flights on the BA system until they are fully integrated? Seems like they are doing a bit of a disservice to EI in the short term as you can go onto the EI website and get them cheaper.

Perhaps this is because BA only intend to sell Aer Lingus flights as part of onward connecting flights, and for single short haul journeys will always try and sell their own metal flights first

Jamie2k9

EI have removed all EY connections from website, has code share come to an end?

LiamaDelta

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

EI have removed all EY connections from website, has code share come to an end?

Possibly happened at the October schedule changeover. I was on an EY flight in September and it still had codeshares.

Jack1985

We've stopped handling them too..

LXFlyer

Noticed BA codeshares on EI flights from Dublin to Manchester and Liverpool today. Presumably other UK destinations are available as well.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

Noticed BA codeshares on EI flights from Dublin to Manchester and Liverpool today. Presumably other UK destinations are available as well.

Just mainline UK routes for now.

Jack1985

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Just mainline UK routes for now.

Well it's placed on the EIR routes between DUB - BHX/MAN in addition to mainline, they're filing another set of routes for codeshare shortly would expect EIR routes to be codeshared in that set.