Eiger Ultra Marathon - Training advice needed

claxxix

Hi all,

I'm looking for training advice. I'm considering signing up for the Eiger Ultra race. Its a 101km race over 26 hours. There is a massive height gain (6700m) over the course of this mountain route. I have never ran an ultra marathon before but have ran maybe 10 marathons I guess (usually 1 a year - i usually devote maybe 6 weeks to training for the run). My fastest time was 3:42 but I generally I just tip away and am typically happy to slip under the 4 hour mark.

I'm not an avid runner but I use it as training to keep fit. The last two summers I have gone to Grindelwald (where the race is held) in order to climb the Eiger. On both occasions I have been thwarted by bad weather. Spending money to go back to the same area again this year is hard to justify since I have done alot of the treking and mountain climbing routes in the area. The Eiger Ultra would give me the justification to go back and also help ensure I am fit enough for an accent on the Eiger itself. The race is on the 18th - 19th July.


I'm looking for ideas, suggested training plans and advice from mountain runners who have competed in a race like this. My goal is to finish. I not bothered about my finishing position. I want to take on the challenge and reap the fitness rewards a successful mountaineering trip. I consider myself "mountain fit" but I haven't done much trail running. I used to train on Patricks Hill in Cork but I'm now based in Malahide (probably the flattest place I've ever seen). Howth Head is one possible option I suppose.....in addition to sorties down in the Wicklow mountains at the weekends. I attend the gym probably 3 times a week for weight and cardio training. I usually use the step climbing machine (level 17/20 for 5 mins) and the threadmill for cardio (speed interval training) 8km jog, 13 km run @ 15% incline for about 10 minutes (3 mins jog, 1 minute run, x 3 sessions). I would like to get an idea of "in gym" training goals I can use in addition to a training schedule of runs that I would need to complete the race.

It might sound very ambitious but I would welcome any constructive comments that people might have.

Thanks,
Claxxix

ger664

Having never ran an ultra. I would think that going from marathon distance to a very difficult trail 100K is too big leap in the timeframe you have outlined.

ultraman1

Am no expert but would start running more for starters, check out dogslysmiles training log as he is training and has trained for races like the one ur heading for

Cabaal

Going from just marathons to a very hard 100km trail ultra isn't a good idea in my view, best plan would be to aim for other ultra distances first. 50km trail, 50mile road etc, that sort of thing.

See if you can manage the distance on roads before you throw in some seriously hard trails and climbs into the mix

Enduro

Firstly, just to give you some background, I've raced many many ultras, including many trail ultras. I've done 4 alpine ultras : the UTMB 3 times (with a best finish of 20th), and the TDG this year (15th in ~92 hours). So I'm speaking from experience, not theory.

I'm going to disagree with the above opinions... if you're going to be running for 24 hours+ then there isn't much benifit to stepping through distances to get there. In the same way that to run a marathon you don't have to start by racing sprints and working through the distances along the way. A big alpine ultra has its own considerations which no amount of shorter flater races are going to prepare you for.

Being mountain fit will be hugely benificial to you. I'd choose it over being marathon fit, if I had to pick between the 2. You're going to be spending a very high proportion of the race walking up hills, and that's where mountain fitness really kicks in.

Ultraman's advice to start running more is the most relevant. If you're going to do this, and you want to minimise the possibility of not completing it, then you're going to have to commit to it. That's going to mean incorporating training as part of your life, not something you do in a 6 week block before the race. Time to become an avid runner!! If don't think you can make the commitment, then you shouldn't waste a race entry. All the usual warning about increasing your training load gradually still apply. Don't expect to be able to climb the Eiger on the same trip that you run the race. You're likely to need a month to recover from a race like this. Alpine ultra trail racing takes a lot more out of you than alpine climbing.

The more hillwork you can do the better. The steeper the hills you can find the better. I've covered some of the course race course in an adventure race and I can remember it being, in Irish terms, horrendously steep. The more specific practice you can get the better. Also, buy walking sticks and learn how to use them properly. That's the single best piece of advice your likely to get (from someone who used to hate the things, but has learned the value of them through hard experience). You'll have to race with a bag full of mandatory kit. So train with the bag you're going to race with, and work up to training with the bag containing a bit more weight than you'll have in it on the race (I use filled water bottles to add weight).

claxxix

Hi Enduro,

My hats off to you for your running achievements. Your obviously, as we’d say in Cork, “a serious operator”. Thank you very much for your insightful comments. All your comments make perfect sense to me. Indeed, you have confirmed many of my own suspicions regarding the character of the race. I.e the greater relative importance of mountain fitness over long distance running ability, the importance of using trekking poles, the importance of training on steep hills and the training tactic of running with a heavier bag than on race day. Naively though, I had not given any real consideration to the recovery period after the race. It has not been much of an issue for me in the past so it didn’t occur to me....the fact that I would have to choose between an accent of the Eiger or the Eiger Ultra did not really register with me. Its a hugely significant point. The uncompromising nature of the Eiger Ultra appeals to me but an accent of the Eiger has been a preoccupation of mine for the last few years. An accent of the Eiger is proving to be that “difficult third album” having already climbed Mt. Blanc and the Matterhorn. I will have to give this choice between the 2 adventures serious thought. There is always the possibility of lowering the horizon and doing the E51km route. However, perhaps this would still leave me incapacitated for a week or two? - If I decide to shelve the Eiger I would probably commit to the full ultra. However, if the recovery period is disproportionately less for the 51km race then I would consider this option. Of course the obvious workaround is to climb before I race but the race is close to the start of the weather window of the Eiger climbing season so I’d have to be really lucky and rely on circumstances outside my control (the weather / mountain conditions) to manage this. I have a few questions below. If you could find the time to respond I would really appreciate it.

1. Recovery period for the Ultra 101km vs. the E51km trail? - How would the recovery differ in terms of symptoms, duration of symptoms, between these two options.

2. Gear choice?
By pure luck, I was based at the campsite where the Eiger Ultra runners passed through on their way to the finish about 1km away. At the time, I was too busy cheering them on to pay close attention to their gear. I’d be much obliged if you have me an idea of your gear setup. All mine is mountaineering orientated and not fit for purpose. Bag choice?, footwear, food etc are all things I have to consider. None of the gear is cheap, thats for sure. There seems to be a strong argument for having two bottles for water and energy drinks on your chest (e.g. Saloman skin pro) rather than having a platapus backpack with only one drink choice. What do you think? Re footwear – are trail shoes always necessary even in dry conditions? – There much more of a bounce to road runners so maybe dump the 2nd pair half way round?

3. Training:
I was out scouting around Howth Hill today for steep roads. There was nothing worth talking about. The geography of north co Dublin does not lend itself to training for this event so I might be snookered before I even start. What was your training schedule like and where did you train? Finally, what would you consider to be reasonable benchmarks that I could use to gauge if I was ready to complete the Eiger Ultra or similarly a benchmark for the E51 trail.

Thanks again for your comments to date. Best of luck with your future running adventures.

Yours sincerely,
Claxxix.

Enduro

Aha... you're a fellow Cork exile then! We also share a mountaineering background, although its long in the past in my case. Mountain knowledge is also a great thing to have in these races.

If I was in your position I'd pick one or the other of the Eiger or the Ultra to totally focus on, and build around your target. Both are likely to be around for a while! You don't have to get everything done this year. My suggestion would be to go for the ultra and commit totally to it. The break from pure alpine climbing might be a good thing, even from the point of view of coming back more enthused afterwards. No harm in bringing your climbing gear along for the trip, just in case things go very unexpectedly well. You could always flip it around and pencil in an attempt on the Eiger a week before the ultra. That would also be useful acclimatisation for the race. If it didn't work out it wouldn't really matter in this scenario as your main focus would be on the race. Expectation management is key here. If it works out its a bonus. If it doesn't it doesn't matter, as you'll still be in the alps acclimatising for your #1 target!

(1) I couldn't answer this for you, as so much depends on your own abilities and training.

(2) Have a read through my blog about gear for the 2012 UTMB, as I outline the main things I used and some of the reasoning behind choices I made. Some of your mountaineering might be useable (Shell, fleece, baselayer, socks), but generally lighter stretchier gear is more optimal for running.

You'll definitely want trail shoes of some kind. You can some very highly cushioned ones though if that's what you want (a whole can of worms to be opened there), so called "maximalist" shoes like Hokas.

The two bottles on shoulder straps is a great system, probably optimal IMHO. Needs the right bottles so you can drink from them without needing to user you arms (which will be busy powering the poles!). A bladder can work well too though, or even a combination.

(3) First thing... start doing the IMRA races to get a feel for racing in the hills. They're worth doing in their own right anyway. I train in the Dublin mountains, which are no alps! But you gotta work with what you have. Howth has plenty to get you going, although it'll get very repetitive. Try to aim to get somewhere different as often as you can (a day away at a weekend). As well as the Dublin mountains being an hour or so drive away, you also have the cooleys and the Mournes to the north. They're quite close by motorway, so there are other options there.
On howth, the main road from the harbour up to the summit pub is more than good enough to get you going! You can make a loop by using the road past the GAA club. Run this multiple times and you've got a good hill repeats session going. Everything doesn't have to be hilly, but the aim is to get very regular hillwork done.

As for training programmes... what have you been doing for your marathons up until now? Have you been following any plans?

Just to repeat again, the main thing required here is the commitment, and part of that is the commitment to train regularly (aiming for 6 days a week) starting from now (Or the new year, given the timing ). The main thing that will get you to the finish line is mental commitment. That starts with preparation, and that starts from the moment you decide to go for it!

claxxix

Hi Eoin,

Your a gentleman. Thank you very much for all your advice. It really is very helpful. I'll have to have a think about the options over Christmas. Lots to consider! Have a lovely Christmas and all the best for 2015.

Regards,
Brian