Mobility and comfort issues with high bar squatting

funkey_monkey

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice here in regards to my squatting. I should state at this point I'm squatting for muscle development and am not chasing numbers in a powerlifter sense.

About a month ago I was repping 110kg (low bar squat) @ 66kg bodyweight. However, when I got tired towards the end of my sets a friend noticed that I was lifting with my back and not my legs - hence why the workouts were never tiring my kegs and I rarely got DOMs.

I was advised to switch to a high bar squat in order to engage the legs more and take pressure of the lower back.

However, I'm struggling to even squat 60kg comfortably with the high bar squat.

I'm guessing that the issue here will be mostly due to tight muscles in hamstrings, groin, hips or adductors - but I can't figure out how to resolve this.

I was thinking about getting lifting shoes, but at the weight I'm lifting I don't feel that shoes would resolve the issue - they remain on my long term list when I start getting the weights increasing.

I cycle every day to work - only a moderate journey of approx 10 mintes, but I like get cycle at pace so it is not a leisurely cycle using the granny gear. Maybe this is sufficiently tightening my meg muscles to the point where squatting becomes difficult.

My warmups currently consist of the following:





Although I have to say it is difficult to get in a decent amount of stretching and do my routine in the time available to me.

I guess I'm wondering if it is worth perservering with the high bar squat saying as I find it uncomfortable compared with low bar which I'm more used with?
Will I see better gains in muscle development if I stick with high bar?
What can I do in order to increase mobility which is probably a big factor?

Finally when performign box squats, does your ass touch the box or do you completely sit on the box? I've seen both being done but which is the correct technique?

I've tried using rollers but TBH I just don't get on with them. I don't really feel any benefit from them. The only thing I notice is that it is incredibly painful to roll the outside of my upper legs on them - to the point where I just can't do it any more. Is this a sign of tightness?


Any help appreciated!

Thanks

Alf Veedersane

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I've tried using rollers but TBH I just don't get on with them. I don't really feel any benefit from them. The only thing I notice is that it is incredibly painful to roll the outside of my upper legs on them - to the point where I just can't do it any more. Is this a sign of tightness?

That's your ITB usually. It will be sore when you start doing it but you have to persevere. It will become less sore pretty quickly once the rolling has started to work.

Hanley

Elevate your heels on some 2.5kg plates next time and see if that makes things easier.

And try front squats as well.

re: box squats - you've outlined the difference between a box squat (where you sit on it and pause, but don't relax) and a squat to a box, which is just a stupid way of squatting if you're not sure your'e geting depth.

funkey_monkey

Hanley wrote: »

Elevate your heels on some 2.5kg plates next time and see if that makes things easier.

Tried this tonight and it made a big difference. Only thing is that the outside of my quads (ITG?) is very sore now afterwards. What does this indicate if anything?

And try front squats as well.

Will try next time.

re: box squats - you've outlined the difference between a box squat (where you sit on it and pause, but don't relax) and a squat to a box, which is just a stupid way of squatting if you're not sure your'e geting depth.

The reason I asked was I watched some rugby guys squatting to a box and they sat on the box, but I could see on their way up that there was a swinging effort which seemed to me like they had relaxed their muscles and were then trying to swing some momentum back into the bar.

Alf Veedersane

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Tried this tonight and it made a big difference. Only thing is that the outside of my quads (ITG?) is very sore now afterwards. What does this indicate if anything?

I'd have thought it was just a result of greater quad activation so you're just feeling the effects of your quads working harder

funkey_monkey

Feeling good now and am considering investing in a pair of weightlifting shoes.
I've no idea about choosing a pair - so what do I need to look out for? I know that they seem to have various heel heights and that is about it. I wear insoles for my arches - do they all have neutral insides?

There seems to be quite a few brands from Nike, Adidas, Inov-8 etc. Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

puntosporting

I recently picked up some inov-8 shoes and find them excellent made a massive improvement to my form!
I got mine from d8 fitness on sale for 99 euro!
Ill b honest in saying I have nothing to compare them too as there my first pair of dedicated lifting shoes but I would recommend that you do get a pair of dedicated lifting shoes whatever brand that is!

Alf Veedersane

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Feeling good now and am considering investing in a pair of weightlifting shoes.
I've no idea about choosing a pair - so what do I need to look out for? I know that they seem to have various heel heights and that is about it. I wear insoles for my arches - do they all have neutral insides?

There seems to be quite a few brands from Nike, Adidas, Inov-8 etc. Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

The main ones that will get mentioned are the Adipowers and Power Perfects, both by Adidas, and the Nike ones would usually be the Romaleos.

There are other Adidas ones like Power lifts but they're more a Crossfit type of runner insofar as the soles aren't as firm, as I understand it.

The Inov-8 is a minimalist shoe, ie thin sole but stable. Would he more for deadlifting. Sorry, that's not entirely true. There's the Inov-8 Fastlift. Looks like an oly shoe but the association with Crossfit has me question the firmness of the sole compared with Adipowers, PPs or Ronaldo. But I could be wrong. The heel is a touch lower than the others too.

Best bet is to take a trip to D8 Fitness and try out a few and ask questions. The only one of the above shoes they don't sell are the Romaleos but they're probably the most expensive anyway.

Alf Veedersane

Oh and I'm pretty sure they have neutral soles. How solid are your insoles? What way do they affect your foot? If they raise the heel then a slightly lower sole might work better.

But like I said, best to ask in D8

puntosporting

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The main ones that will get mentioned are the Adipowers and Power Perfects, both by Adidas, and the Nike ones would usually be the Romaleos.

There are other Adidas ones like Power lifts but they're more a Crossfit type of runner insofar as the soles aren't as firm, as I understand it.

The Inov-8 is a minimalist shoe, ie thin sole but stable. Would he more for deadlifting. Sorry, that's not entirely true. There's the Inov-8 Fastlift. Looks like an oly shoe but the association with Crossfit has me question the firmness of the sole compared with Adipowers, PPs or Ronaldo. But I could be wrong. The heel is a touch lower than the others too.

Best bet is to take a trip to D8 Fitness and try out a few and ask questions. The only one of the above shoes they don't sell are the Romaleos but they're probably the most expensive anyway.

Fastlifts are the ones I have and the heel is rock solid they are very light too!

puntosporting

From reading around the nike romeleos and adidas adipowers are top of the pile but they work out twice the price !
For powerlifters/Olympic/competitive lifters im sure they are the way to go!

Alf Veedersane

puntosporting wrote: »

Fastlifts are the ones I have and the heel is rock solid they are very light too!

Sweet. Thought they'd be along the same lines as Powerlifts but that was based on nothing other than the Crossfit association...well, that and I remember reading the sole was a little more flexible than the Adipowers et al so I wondered. Good to know though.

funkey_monkey

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Oh and I'm pretty sure they have neutral soles. How solid are your insoles? What way do they affect your foot? If they raise the heel then a slightly lower sole might work better.

But like I said, best to ask in D8

The insoles are solid plastic type in order to raise the arch. The insole cups around the heel and are minimally thick - would not even be 3mm.

Okay, so I'm now looking at the powerlift 2 (£65):
http://www.adidas.co.uk/powerlift-2-shoes/B39760_580.html

and the Innov-8 (£95)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inov8-Fastlift-Training-Shoes-Standard/dp/B00D9H1AJQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=shoes&ie=UTF8&qid=1421239490&sr=1-1&keywords=innov8+fastlift

Power Perfects (£85)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adidas-Power-Perfect-Weightlift-Shoes/dp/B009XE7XT0


The Inov-8 have a heel height of 16.5mm (0.65")
I believe that all Adidas items have a heel height of 19mm (0.75").

Is there any discernable difference in this difference in heel height and as they are similar prices should I opt for one the more common Adidas items or the lower Fastlift?

I'm not near any shops where I can try these on (based in NI).


Thanks for the replies.

Alf Veedersane

I'd have thought the higher heel would allow you to get in a better position but that depends on the person's own dimensions, e.g. relationship between length of thigh and lower leg.

Based on punto's review, it would be between the Inov-8 fastlift and PP2s.

If I was advising, it would be the PP2s.

funkey_monkey

Anyone know where in Belfast there is a good strength equipment store where I could find these in order to try them on?

Alf Veedersane

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Anyone know where in Belfast there is a good strength equipment store where I could find these in order to try them on?

Not sure what their deal is with buying but contact EFP Gyms Ltd and see if they have a bricks 'n' mortar to try them out in

funkey_monkey

Well,

I've been looking online for shoes as I'm now upping the weight again. There is a size guide on Amazon for the PP2 which would appear to state that I need a size 7. I normally wear 8 - 9 depending on the brand.

However, using their sizing chart it seems tha my feet match up to their size 7 as my feet measure just over 10". This would fit in with some reports I seen online about people saying get a size (or 1/2 size) smaller than you normally get.

Is this the case that people on here find?

Hanley

Are you in Dublin...? You could go into D8 Fitness try them on and get em there if you are.

Alf Veedersane

Hanley wrote: »

Are you in Dublin...? You could go into D8 Fitness try them on and get em there if you are.

Think he's in Norn Iron.

The Amazon size chart wouldn't work for me but I looked at the one on the Adidas specialty sports website and it's about right. Size 10 (UK) is what I have and that would mean for feet that are 11.2". It's not far off. They are reasonably tight. Not uncomfortable but not much wiggle room.

funkey_monkey

Thanks - been speaking to a guy at gym and he let me try on his 8's. I might take a risk on the 7.5's as i think they will spread out a bit when worn in and it might be best to have a tightish fit?

As an aside, do any of you know much about these Reeboks. They have the same heel height and seem to get a fair review. Just noticed one guy wearing them at gym tonight and they seemed like a break from the norm. I appreciate that the PP2 get the glowing reviews, but was just curious about these ones as I'd not heard of them until I seen them tonight at gym and came home and googled them:

http://www.roguefitness.com/reebok-crossfit-lifter-2-0-black-orange#gear-and-specs

Alf Veedersane

They're crossfit shoes so they're built for a different purpose. Soles' probably gonna have more give than weightlifting shoes.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They're crossfit shoes so they're built for a different purpose. Soles' probably gonna have more give than weightlifting shoes.

I have the original reebok Oly shoe. There's no give in the heel, as with say the Addidas powerlift. the forefoot is flexible to make it a bit more practical for running about between cleans but the heel is solid.
I can't say for sure that this model is the same, but I'd assume so.

Alf Veedersane

Good reviews/comparison of the different options here:

http://m.outdoorgearlab.com/Weightlifting-Shoes-Reviews

Kinda puts the Lifter 2.0s in Powerlift territory.

puntosporting

Good enough for Dimitri Klokov id say they are good enough for yourself:)
The original reebok lifters that is and they where for sale around febuary on reebok.ie for 65 euro!

funkey_monkey

Finally got my PP2's and they seem to be great other than one thing - comfort. I get a slight compression in my big toes (moreso on the right) is this normal?

I wasn't sure if it is due to to the higher heel sliding my foot more forward into the toe box or whether I should have ordered a 1/2 size bigger. Judging by the sizing chart on Amazon for the shoes I'm already 1/2 larger than for my heel-toe length.

Is this something that just needs breaking in or should I opt to return and get a pair 1/2 size bigger?

Just thinking, maybe my orthotics which have no grip on the upper surface are causing my feet to slide sligthly forward into the toe box?

Pi$$ed off

Alf Veedersane

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Finally got my PP2's and they seem to be great other than one thing - comfort. I get a slight compression in my big toes (moreso on the right) is this normal?

I wasn't sure if it is due to to the higher heel sliding my foot more forward into the toe box or whether I should have ordered a 1/2 size bigger. Judging by the sizing chart on Amazon for the shoes I'm already 1/2 larger than for my heel-toe length.

Is this something that just needs breaking in or should I opt to return and get a pair 1/2 size bigger?

Just thinking, maybe my orthotics which have no grip on the upper surface are causing my feet to slide sligthly forward into the toe box?

Pi$$ed off

It's possible the orthotics aren't helping. That said, while I don't find my PP2s uncomfortable, per se, I wouldn't choose to knock around in them outside of a session. But I prefer them to leave little room to manoeuvre.

What are the orthotics like? Have you tried squatting without?

funkey_monkey

I think I'll try using grippy soled socks and see if that makes a difference. I can't squat without the orthotics as I need them to support fallen arches. They provide no additional heel height (less than 1mm depth to the item).

Looks like might need to upgrade by 1/2 size.

Alf Veedersane

Are they solid orthotics? As in resistant to compression.

funkey_monkey

Yes - they are solid with no flexion/compression.

They look like:
http://www.prolaborthotics.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=hSFKWHVVgkU%3d&tabid=85

http://www.prolaborthotics.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=pckMbMtnbBg%3d&tabid=85