Liverpool VS Arsenal Sunday(16.00 ko) Anfield - Mod Note Linked in OP

niallo27

Oranage2 wrote: »

Wenger is a big draw for some players, stories of Ozil and ramsey signing because wenger met them personally.

Also people said the same things about Rafa, that pool wouldn't challenge with him as manager. Look how that turned out, over 400 million spent and pools average league season is 7th since he's left.

Rafa did challenge. I dont know why your are bringing him up. Why does every reply have to be "but liverpool are ****". Arsenal are regressing under Wenger despite having all the resources to be challengers.

5live

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

Fair play to that Boxing post! A stroke of genius, very appropriate!

I'm a Liverpool fan but I certainly don't think we can be slagging Arsenal as a club, we'd love to be in the position they are, squad wise, stadium wise etc etc...

I wouldn't mind a few years of Arsenal-type failure, tbh.

I think they are a super club, doing things the right way, not becoming an extension of the ego of sugar-daddy, playing good football and encouraging youth. Arsene Wenger did what was almost impossible, keeping Arsenal at the top table while having to sell their best players while building and paying for a new stadium.

Top marks for that, imo.

But, and it's a big but, he seems to have a blind spot for the defensive side of the game. While he had the remnants of the pre-Arsene defense in place, they were a formidable team and he doesn't seem to have replaced them adequately. In fairness, it would have been some achievement to do that.

He also seems to have a difficulty in spending money that is available to buy in quality starters but seems entrenched in promoting young players that don't seem to be good enough but i am really splitting hairs withe these last few paragraphs.

I wish Arsenal the best, but from monday on, we need the points more:p

Pilsbury Doughboy

5live wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a few years of Arsenal-type failure, tbh.

I think they are a super club, doing things the right way, not becoming an extension of the ego of sugar-daddy, playing good football and encouraging youth. Arsene Wenger did what was almost impossible, keeping Arsenal at the top table while having to sell their best players while building and paying for a new stadium.

Top marks for that, imo.

But, and it's a big but, he seems to have a blind spot for the defensive side of the game. While he had the remnants of the pre-Arsene defense in place, they were a formidable team and he doesn't seem to have replaced them adequately. In fairness, it would have been some achievement to do that.

He also seems to have a difficulty in spending money that is available to buy in quality starters but seems entrenched in promoting young players that don't seem to be good enough but i am really splitting hairs withe these last few paragraphs.

I wish Arsenal the best, but from monday on, we need the points more:p

Yup good post, pretty much sums up how I feel, you just took the time to go into detail.

Skylinehead

OwaynOTT wrote: »

In the decade before Wenger Arsenal won:
League Title twice
FA Cup once
League Cup once
Cup Winners Cup once

So they weren't exactly struggling before Wenger.

Since Wenger in close to 20 years now:
league 3 times
fa cup 5 times

So 5 titles in 10 years and 8 titles in 18 year(?).

Our average position since Wenger took over: 2.5

Same decade you took before Wenger: 5.1

So we're twice as good overall. Not to mention the new stadium, consistently getting into Europe, one of if not the best season in the English league, entertaining football (remember 1-0 to The Arsenal?). Oh, and the man revolutionised English football in general, not just Arsenal. He introduced modern diets and training regimes. So, please do tell me how we were fine before him.

ronjo

niallo27 wrote: »

Well Ozil is a flop for the money that was paid for him, Sanchez is a super player to be fair. What i am saying is these palyers will get harder and harder to attract while wenger is in charge.

Horsesh!t. You are just making things up now to suit your argument.
The last two summers have seen Arsenal sign two of the biggest names they have ever signed despite not winning the league in so long.

Also, the fact Ozil hasn't been great is totally irrelevant to the original point, but I am sure you know that.

niallo27

ronjo wrote: »

Horsesh!t. You are just making things up now to suit your argument.
The last two summers have seen Arsenal sign two of the biggest names they have ever signed despite not winning the league in so long.

Also, the fact Ozil hasn't been great is totally irrelevant to the original point, but I am sure you know that.

Was anyone else in for ozil. Course he was going to arsenal for that bonkers money. Arsenal are slipping down the order whether you want to believe it or not.

niallo27

Skylinehead wrote: »

Our average position since Wenger took over: 2.5

Same decade you took before Wenger: 5.1

So we're twice as good overall. Not to mention the new stadium, consistently getting into Europe, one of if not the best season in the English league, entertaining football (remember 1-0 to The Arsenal?). Oh, and the man revolutionised English football in general, not just Arsenal. He introduced modern diets and training regimes. So, please do tell me how we were fine before him.

I think his point was Arsenal were a successful club before wenger joined. No one is denying the work wenger did.

Will I Amnt

niallo27 wrote: »

Was anyone else in for ozil.

Does it matter if you have the cash?

Godge

niallo27 wrote: »

I wasn't trying to start an argument. .

You weren't?

niallo27 wrote: »

That's all very well but arsenal should be challenging and whilst they are not they are losing their appeal to top players. If liverpool had bit of form arsenal would be in danger of slipping out of the top 4.

You mean if Liverpool had actually managed to buy a few decent players to replace the only good one they had that left?

niallo27 wrote: »

Well Ozil is a flop for the money that was paid for him, Sanchez is a super player to be fair. What i am saying is these palyers will get harder and harder to attract while wenger is in charge.

Actually, because Arsenal have built the stadium, and now have the income, these players are getting easier and easier to attract. Sanchez, Ozil, Welbeck were all signed in the last two years and for sums higher than Arsenal's previous transfer record.

Arsenal are buying from Real Madrid, Barcelona and Manchester United.

Liverpool are buying from the bargain bin in places like Southampton.

niallo27

Godge wrote: »

You weren't?






You mean if Liverpool had actually managed to buy a few decent players to replace the only good one they had that left?





Actually, because Arsenal have built the stadium, and now have the income, these players are getting easier and easier to attract. Sanchez, Ozil, Welbeck were all signed in the last two years and for sums higher than Arsenal's previous transfer record.

Arsenal are buying from Real Madrid, Barcelona and Manchester United.

Liverpool are buying from the bargain bin in places like Southampton.

Why is the normal response to knock liverpool. Utd spent a lot of money on a Southampton player. Are you telling me wellbeck was a big name signing.

OwaynOTT

Skylinehead wrote: »

Our average position since Wenger took over: 2.5

Same decade you took before Wenger: 5.1

So we're twice as good overall. Not to mention the new stadium, consistently getting into Europe, one of if not the best season in the English league, entertaining football (remember 1-0 to The Arsenal?). Oh, and the man revolutionised English football in general, not just Arsenal. He introduced modern diets and training regimes. So, please do tell me how we were fine before him.

The league was more variable back then. Crystal Place, Leeds, Villa and Forrest all finished in the top 4 between 88-93. So it was harder to constantly get into top few positions.
Not knocking his contribution to the premiership but Arsenal were not exactly in dire straits before him.

Oranage2

niallo27 wrote: »

Was anyone else in for ozil. Course he was going to arsenal for that bonkers money. Arsenal are slipping down the order whether you want to believe it or not.

We're probably near enough the same order as before in terms of transfers, a lot of the Italian teams have dropped down and some other teams have popped up. Signings like Ozil and Sanchez's proves Arsenal are still amongst the top teams, football wise we might be dropping as the Mega rich clubs take a step up, but wages wise and location arsenal can still attract top players.

Out of interest, out of the 400 plus million fsg spent how many of those players are top class?

extra gravy

Oranage2 wrote: »

Out of interest, out of the 400 plus million Liverpool spent how many of those players are top class?

Sturridge. That's it.

Bobby Baccala

Oranage2 wrote: »

Out of interest, out of the 400 plus million fsg spent how many of those players are top class?

suarez and thats about it

Chrissybhoy

extra gravy wrote: »

Sturridge. That's it.

Needs to do a bit more to be considered top class

OwaynOTT

extra gravy wrote: »

Sturridge. That's it.

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

suarez and thats about it

And Joe cole, the golf ball Messi. Although I think he may be gotten under to previous regime.

greendom

niallo27 wrote: »

Was anyone else in for ozil. Course he was going to arsenal for that bonkers money. Arsenal are slipping down the order whether you want to believe it or not.

PSG and Man United

There was a bigger offer from PSG but he chose Arsenal. There was a late enquiry by United but it was too late.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mesut-ozil-didnt-want-move-2253244

niallo27

greendom wrote: »

PSG and Man United

Then the 50 million came in and everyone said **** that.

tayto lover

Might revise my prediction for tomorrow.
Was thinking - draw.
But we always seem to do well enough against teams in the bottom half of the table :pac:

greendom

niallo27 wrote: »

Then the 50 million came in and everyone said **** that.

????

Drexel

niallo27 wrote: »

Then the 50 million came in and everyone said **** that.

this is the same psg that paid 50million for David Luiz! Im sure they would have paid that and more for Ozil at the time. You're only kidding yourself

Ozil was closer to 40 than 50 million any ways

bad2dabone

niallo27 wrote: »

Then the 50 million came in and everyone said **** that.

Because PSG don't spend 50m easily...
Cough cough David Luiz

niallo27

jonny666 wrote: »

this is the same psg that paid 50million for David Luiz! Im sure they would have paid that and more for Ozil at the time. You're only kidding yourself

Ozil was closer to 40 than 50 million any ways

Did they bid for him?

symbolic

niallo27 wrote: »

Did they bid for him?

All the usual (bad) sources said they did at the time.

Wenger was quoted as saying "PSG wanted Ozil but I had an advantage because I’d already had that contact. He came to my house and he decided quickly. The first contact [with Ozil] happened at my place, for discretion. He decided in 24 hours."

Who knows, but the fact that Sanchez then came... Maybe, just maybe these players did decide they want to play under Arsene Wenger at Arsenal FC.

niallo27

symbolic wrote: »

All the usual (bad) sources said they did at the time.

Wenger was quoted as saying "PSG wanted Ozil but I had an advantage because I’d already had that contact. He came to my house and he decided quickly. The first contact [with Ozil] happened at my place, for discretion. He decided in 24 hours."

Who knows, but the fact that Sanchez then came... Maybe, just maybe these players did decide they want to play under Arsene Wenger at Arsenal FC.

Maybe maybe.

Kerrigooney

greendom wrote: »

PSG and Man United



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mesut-ozil-didnt-want-move-2253244

PSG and Man Utd dodged a bullet there.

greendom

Kerrigooney wrote: »

PSG and Man Utd dodged a bullet there.

time will tell but I was responding to the point that no one else was in for him

Godge

niallo27 wrote: »

Why is the normal response to knock liverpool. Utd spent a lot of money on a Southampton player. Are you telling me wellbeck was a big name signing.

You come on here and spend the time knocking Arsenal and their signings and then whinge at the first response that says something about Liverpool.

I wasn't knocking Liverpool. I was making the factual statement that Arsenal are now competing at the top transfer table, buying from Real Madrid, Barcelona and Man Utd. Up until two seasons ago, Arsenal were more likely to sell to them than buy from them. That has changed.

Unfortunately for Liverpool, they are not in that league at the moment. If they fail to get into the Champions League for next season, they will remain second-rate.

symbolic

niallo27 wrote: »

Maybe maybe.

Exactly.. We never really know for sure. And I suppose barca and Real are always were the players want to go, so ozil and Sanchez both coming from them ... And in recent years chelsea and man city, but again Spain seems to be the place they want to be? . Like Liverpool came so close to winning the premier league last year, but Suarez (we know this for sure) didn't want to play for Liverpool FC anymore. I dunno if transfer fees even come into that decision. He just wanted out? Of such a great team,who played great football and had a great season.

5live

Godge wrote: »

You come on here and spend the time knocking Arsenal and their signings and then whinge at the first response that says something about Liverpool.

I wasn't knocking Liverpool. I was making the factual statement that Arsenal are now competing at the top transfer table, buying from Real Madrid, Barcelona and Man Utd. Up until two seasons ago, Arsenal were more likely to sell to them than buy from them. That has changed.

Unfortunately for Liverpool, they are not in that league at the moment. If they fail to get into the Champions League for next season, they will remain second-rate.

Now that's not quite correct.

Yes Arsenal are buying from the top teams but, like Liverpool, only those players that the top teams have no more use for. Ozil was out of favour, Sanchez was going to be out of favour behind Suarez and Welbeck is, well, Welbeck.

Now those players, possibly including Welbeck:D:D, may be good to excellent buys, but don't try to tell us that they were in any way wanted by the selling clubs because, if they were, neither Arsenal or Liverpool would be anywhere even near the queue.

symbolic

5live wrote: »

Now that's not quite correct.

Yes Arsenal are buying from the top teams but, like Liverpool, only those players that the top teams have no more use for. Ozil was out of favour, Sanchez was going to be out of favour behind Suarez and Welbeck is, well, Welbeck.

Now those players, possibly including Welbeck:D:D, may be good to excellent buys, but don't try to tell us that they were in any way wanted by the selling clubs because, if they were, neither Arsenal or Liverpool would be anywhere even near the queue.

Has a player wanted by real or barca ever moved to the premier league? I mean a player playing for them. I'm probably forgetting a few.

extra gravy

5live wrote: »

Now that's not quite correct.

Yes Arsenal are buying from the top teams but, like Liverpool, only those players that the top teams have no more use for.

This is a bull**** argument to be honest which I've heard too many times before. The likes of Robben and Ibrahimovic were deemed to be of no more use by Real and Barca but does that mean they aren't top players? No it doesn't.

5live

symbolic wrote: »

Has a player wanted by real or barca ever moved to the premier league? I mean a player playing for them. I'm probably forgetting a few.

None that i can think of anyway.

symbolic

5live wrote: »

None that i can think of anyway.

But they have such great squads it's not a bad thing at times to be picking up some of these players. Even if they are not wanted by real or barca I spose?

Like di Maria looks fairly good at playing the ol football.

5live

symbolic wrote: »

But they have such great squads it's not a bad thing at times to be picking up some of these players. Even if they are not wanted by real or barca I spose?

Like di Maria looks fairly good at playing the ol football.

No, its not a bad thing at all, but if Real/Barca/Bayern are looking for a player then the best the rest can do is try to pick up the replaced player because they are superb players, in general.

symbolic

5live wrote: »

No, its not a bad thing at all, but if Real/Barca/Bayern are looking for a player then the best the rest can do is try to pick up the replaced player because they are superb players, in general.

That's how it appears alright. I know I'd be on the first flight out of manchester/Liverpool for Barcelona/Madrid given the choice (not cities I enjoyed, personal opinion though!) . London I could manage, maybe second flight though.

Interesting then is players like Gerrard who people perceive to be loyal, due to the offers over the years. And reading Keane speak in his book about his fear of the unknown moving to Spain to sign for Real. So making excuses against moving, the kids, the family etc.

Godge

5live wrote: »

Now that's not quite correct.

Yes Arsenal are buying from the top teams but, like Liverpool, only those players that the top teams have no more use for. Ozil was out of favour, Sanchez was going to be out of favour behind Suarez and Welbeck is, well, Welbeck.

Now those players, possibly including Welbeck:D:D, may be good to excellent buys, but don't try to tell us that they were in any way wanted by the selling clubs because, if they were, neither Arsenal or Liverpool would be anywhere even near the queue.

Even if that it true, and I am not saying that it is, the players that Arsenal can compete for and buy are at a higher level than Liverpool, Welbeck would never have gone to Liverpool not Sanchez or Ozil. Going back a few years, the likes of Cazorla, Mertesacker, Giroud and Podolski, a level below Sanchez wouldn't go to Liverpool either.

The best Liverpool can hope for is a good talent on his last chance - Balotelli - or a hopeful punt on a kid - Markovic, Can etc or a journeyman pro. The problem with that approach is that it can turn out badly - €7m for Coates, €10m for Borini, €7m for Iago Aspas, €7m for Charlie Adam etc.

Liverpool had one lucky break - Suarez - but that was never going to last without a supporting team around him.

ShamoBuc

So....tomorrow's game.....hard to see beyond an away win, I'll gladly settle for a draw.

Harry Palmr

I'd settle for a fresh match thread!

brianregan09

Why do these threads always seem to descend into the same tired old arguments , why even start a match thread until Sunday

End of the day both teams are having crap seasons, Liverpool happen to suffering from Tottenham syndrome (selling a worldie and replacing him with ****e)

and Arsenal are Arsenal I love them but they always huff and puff and do the same every year for the meantime

Why not wait to argue till the match is on, not before hand over stupid things like who can go where and what not

With Lucas infront of the centre backs (tomorrow may see three again, Toure, Sakho & Skittles) & the new attacking approach of 5/6 forwards and Gerrard starting on the bench (3rd game in 8 days) I would not at all be surprised to see the best Liverpool performance of the season and a home win

Bobby Baccala

Augeo wrote: »

(tomorrow may see three again, Toure, Sakho & Skittles)

i can see that back 3 being terrorised by sanchez and welbeck, but i could be wrong!

niallo27

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

i can see that back 3 being terrorised by sanchez and welbeck, but i could be wrong!

Terrorised by Wellbeck. Liverpool haven't sunk that low yet.

5live

extra gravy wrote: »

This is a bull**** argument to be honest which I've heard too many times before. The likes of Robben and Ibrahimovic were deemed to be of no more use by Real and Barca but does that mean they aren't top players? No it doesn't.

Where did I say they weren't top players?

Soups123

niallo27 wrote: »

Terrorised by Wellbeck. Liverpool haven't sunk that low yet.

He's no Dwight Gayle

John Cherry

2-0 Arsenal Giroudx2

Bobby Baccala

niallo27 wrote: »

Terrorised by Wellbeck. Liverpool haven't sunk that low yet.

He has the pace, strength and stamina to run rings around those 3 all day, only thing he's short of is being able to finish but nobody said anything about him terrorising the mighty Brad Jones!

Gits_bone

I'm predicting a tight and cagey 3-3 draw.

niallo27

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

He has the pace, strength and stamina to run rings around those 3 all day, only thing he's short of is being able to finish but nobody said anything about him terrorising the mighty Brad Jones!

So he is a striker that can't finish. If he was still with utd you would be saying how ****e he is. He will go away and score now after this.

Bobby Baccala

niallo27 wrote: »

So he is a striker that can't finish. If he was still with utd you would be saying how ****e he is. He will go away and score now after this.

I've always admired his workrate and determination and that's all he needs really to upset a poor Liverpool back 3, doesn't take a great finisher to beat big bad brad anyway.