And it's Sh!te from the Irish Mirror that's not helping us

Cass

@Yubabill1 - Yes.

Someone with no knowledge would see these as positive steps. So a person or persons with no knowledge of the current firearms licensing procedure, no knowledge of the court cases, reading the articles like the one this thread is about, and after listening to the review committee and their use of certain words would think "they are out to stop the gun nuts and protect us".

Also you have those that simply don't like guns, because they're guns. No other reason. They don't see a need for them, use for them, and don't like the idea that a catapult might be licensed. It's the reason AGS/DoJ use certain hype words. If the argument has no basis/substance then baffle them with bullsh*t, and make it sound like armed groups are roaming the streets with AK's.

clivej

news@irishmirror.ie

Dear Sirs,

You protrayed gun owership in Ireland very badly in the article you ran in the Irish Mirror.

Pretty shabby reporting by the Irish Daily Mirror. Why didn't they report the numerous court cases lost by AGS and the underhanded tactics they used. Altering court paperwork, purging themselves in court.
Does those statistics include those firearms stolen from members of AGS. Or how all this has come about as revenge for showing in the courts that we as shooters complied to the law where as they tried to make their own rules and ignore the courts.
Pity the Irish Daily Mirror don't report on the success of Irish shooting teams and their success on the international stage, world champions, numerous European medals, all done at a personal cost to themselves.


Pity you didn't ask or get in contact with any of the shooting organisations before running that story like the NASRPC.


Yours

Clive J.....




Their reply...........


No we didn't report it badly, we reported facts.
Newspapers are always criticised for allegedly failing to address facts.
When we do, we are still criticised. These are official figures and are of
important public interest.

I assume you want to deal with facts as well. Can you show us some evidence of how people have altered court paperwork or purged themselves in court, as you claim?


News editor.

aaakev

Have you sent him a reply clive?

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

@Yubabill1 - Yes.

Someone with no knowledge would see these as positive steps. So a person or persons with no knowledge of the current firearms licensing procedure, no knowledge of the court cases, reading the articles like the one this thread is about, and after listening to the review committee and their use of certain words would think "they are out to stop the gun nuts and protect us".

Also you have those that simply don't like guns, because they're guns. No other reason. They don't see a need for them, use for them, and don't like the idea that a catapult might be licensed. It's the reason AGS/DoJ use certain hype words. If the argument has no basis/substance then baffle them with bullsh*t, and make it sound like armed groups are roaming the streets with AK's.

I was thinking of someone with an open mind - a rare breed.

yubabill1

To Daily Mirror RE: 1 in 20 owns a firearm

Sir/Madam



I have read an email you sent to an associate who complained about inaccuracies in the above article, whereupon you claim to deal only in “facts”



“No we didn't report it badly, we reported facts.
Newspapers are always criticised for allegedly failing to address facts.
When we do, we are still criticised. These are official figures and are of
important public interest.

I assume you want to deal with facts as well. Can you show us some evidence of how people have altered court paperwork or purged themselves in court, as you claim?”

Please inform yourself of the meaning of the term “firearm” under Irish legislation – you may find it includes starter pistols, flare guns, humane killers and the like, which make up over 80 of the 355 stolen in 2013;

You may also find it useful to know that “lost” firearms include those lost in house fires, from water craft, damaged beyond repair in various common ways and not just cases misplacement.

If you are going to deal in facts, please stay away from statistics – you say one in 20 own a firearm, but what if many firearms licence holders own more than one firearm, as many do? I don’t think that even the Garda Press Office would approve of stretching the truth in this extreme manner.

As a newspaper reporting

“official figures .....of
important public interest”

I contend that you have a duty of care to report this information in a responsible, inclusive, tolerant and ACCURATE manner.

Yours............

Cass

So a Christmas miracle ...................


Seriously though, people are broken into 6 categories:

1. Those with firearms that know what is going on and care enough to act.
2. Those with firearms that don't know what is going on. (There are still a frightening number who are unaware/oblivious to these issues)
3. Those with firearms that don't care. No matter the outcome they simply don't care/mind.
4. Those without firearms that are completely anti gun and no matter what rational points you put across, they won't want to know them.
5. Those without firearms that don't care either way
6. Those without firearms that will listen to reasoned debate and then make a decision

In our time of Facebook, Twitter, instagram, and all other forms of social media, it has transformed people from quiet, reserved, and private people to keyboard warriors that will actively have an opinion on everything from guns to world economics and everything in between. They believe they are expertly suited to comment on these topics, have all the answers, and 99% of the time they will follow the herd mentality to avoid being singled out as having a truly original or independent thought.

We have an uphill battle, and always will. Mob rule still wins, and we are not the biggest mob.

Chiparus

clivej wrote: »

news@irishmirror.ie



Their reply...........


No we didn't report it badly, we reported facts.
Newspapers are always criticised for allegedly failing to address facts.
When we do, we are still criticised. These are official figures and are of
important public interest.

I assume you want to deal with facts as well. Can you show us some evidence of how people have altered court paperwork or purged themselves in court, as you claim?


News editor.

Perhaps you might ask them did they verify their "facts" or are they relying "facts" from an organization that has been found to alter their "facts" so much that the Central Statistics Office don't believe them.

bpb101

One thing that they go on and on about is that Ireland has gone gun crazy with 11% increase in firearms.

I welcome the increase

Firearms owners have increased an extra €1,800,000 into the gardai budget for the next 3 year. Thats ennough to fund over 150 rural Gardi stations (1.8million /(3000*3)) - (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/not-one-of-95-garda-stations-shut-down-last-year-has-been-sold-30077299.html)
22,000 extra firearms have allowed new businesses that create employment in a very difficult time.As well as keeping struggling business survive . Without this increase, some rfd may have went out of businesses and their staff and themselves on the social welfare (costing the state money)


Firearms owners have invested a further €15,000,000+ into local economy.

congrats to all those that bought an extra gun this year:)

clivej

Chiparus wrote: »

Perhaps you might ask them did they verify their "facts" or are they relying "facts" from an organization that has been found to alter their "facts" so much that the Central Statistics Office don't believe them.

And would you not E-mail the Irish Mirror?? Bliz them with facts:D

Chiparus

clivej wrote: »

And would you not E-mail the Irish Mirror?? Bliz them with facts:D

Will do.

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

news@irishmirror.ie

Yeah, was talking to the person who wrote the report on twitter yesterday. Their reply was pretty much the same as what you got, and then radio silence.

‏@Sparks
BTW, more than just the one problem with the Mirror of late: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93526602&postcount=4 …

Ailbhe Jordan @amjordo Dec 21
some people may not like the facts in this article but they are correct

@Sparks Dec 21
@amjordo @IrishMirror No, they're really not. eg. "Dramatic rise of 11%" - but 20,000 *fewer* licenced firearms.

@amjordo @IrishMirror eg. "1 in 20 owns a firearm" - not only wrong, but _nobody_ knows the actual number.

@amjordo @IrishMirror And that's just the math, not the stupid stuff like licenced "lethal weapons ownership".

@amjordo @IrishMirror (Seriously, the Gardai do not give out licences for weapons...)

Ailbhe Jordan @amjordo Dec 21
@Sparks @IrishMirror 11 % increase on last year, figures before that refer to a three year period 2009-2012

@Sparks Dec 21
@amjordo @IrishMirror In other words, we had 220,000 before 2008, now we have less than 200,000 but that's a rise.

@amjordo @IrishMirror Also - 1 in 20 have licences? The Gardai don't have that data, so where did you get it?

@amjordo @IrishMirror Was someone not factchecking the data for that article in order to make a deadline I wonder?

Became fairly obvious they were backpedalling away from what was presumably supposed to be an uncontentious fluff piece run to spin up advertising.


On the other hand, it's the Mirror, so you can pretty much say that about everything they run

killintime

they will write what they tink ppl want to hear not what is realy going on

Cass

If it's me replying to ANYONE i follow these rules:

• Write as though everyone, and i mean everyone can read it. So word it carefully and properly.
• NEVER ask anything i don't already know the answer to.
• Stick to proven/printed facts.
• Avoid speculation, rumor, assumption or anything i cannot back up with facts, surveys, stats, etc.
• Avoid using overly harsh description of the article in terms off derogatory comments. You insult the profession, you insult them and close them off to your points. Much like our "Attack the post, not the poster" rule here.
• Counter all points they have made one by one.
• Attack the source of their information. So show the flaws in AGS stats, the fact the CSO no longer supporting the figures they give, the fact that when asked by the review committee/parliamentary questions they cannot provide these figures/facts, etc.
• Avoid topics i don't know about. So if asked i don't have to bullsh*t or "mumble" my way through it.
• Avoid any reference to mass shootings/murders because they do not relate to my sport. When asked, and i was in one letter i got a response to, i simply said (paraphrasing here) "As those tragic events did not happen in the state, have never occurred in the state, have no bearing on sports shooting in Ireland, were carried out by people with mental defects/personality issues that had access to firearms not readily available here i will not insult the families affected by discussing the incident".

Everyone will have their own way, and i'm not advocating using the above ONLY. You need to insert your own personality into your writings. However some of the points above i believe are vital. Especially the ones surrounding the facts. They (AGS, etc) embarrass themselves by using SWAG science (Scientific Wild Ass Guess), and we should be better, not only for moral reasons, but it's easy to remember the truth, and not so much a lie or guess.