Is this some kind of sexual assault? <Mod Warning: Posts #1, #106, #153>

Annasopra

This thread is more suited to the personal issues forum then LGBT.

I've moved it to PI. The PI charter now applies.

Genegirl83

Jelly Jack wrote: »

Literally ? How do ?

If you read the posts, she's already double renting here and abroad. We have a place together abroad, she's just waiting for a job.

Genegirl83

amdublin wrote: »

Sorry but I did not take it from your op at all that he was "jacking off"!!!!!!


I took it to mean he had his hand on his genitals.

Was he masturbating???????????

You need to say it to him that this is not acceptable. If he was masturbating you meed to report him. I am surprised as a doctor your girlfriend is not doing this.

Seriously dude, this is completely different from what you indicated in your first post. Look at all my other posts saying what a guard would say if you said "a man had his hand on his penis at 4am". Masturbating in front of you is completely different.

Yeah it wasn't just "down there" it looked as if he was fondling himself. I just phrased it that way to be more polite...

MagicMarker

Genegirl83 wrote: »

If you read the posts, she's already double renting here and abroad. We have a place together abroad, she's just waiting for a job.

Can she not just stay with you?

Who knows what would have happened had you not been there. People keep suggesting she move out because it doesn't sound like a safe situation. Steps should have been taken to move out as soon he started acting inappropriately, and most definitely when he physically threatened you.

Dunford

Buy a small bolt for the inside of the door....it costs a couple of Euro and easy to put on.

Maybe this wasn't his first time coming into the room.

riffmongous

How long has your partner been living there? And you're sure he's never tried anything before with her?

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

Yeah it wasn't just "down there" it looked as if he was fondling himself. I just phrased it that way to be more polite...

Do you mean masturbating when you say fondling?

If you mean masturbating you will need to say this directly if you are going to the guards.

Geniegirl83 I am sorry this happened to you. I still think he is a weirdo, all the stuff I said before I knew he was actually masturbating. Now that you are saying he was masturbating I think it is very serious.

I think your girlfriend needs to move out. Who wants to live with this type of person???

As a doctor I think it is very strange your girlfriend is "ok" with this.

What are you thinking about going to the gardai about what he did?

Genegirl83

MagicMarker wrote: »

Can she not just stay with you?

Who knows what would have happened had you not been there. People keep suggesting she move out because it doesn't sound like a safe situation. Steps should have been taken to move out as soon he started acting inappropriately, and most definitely when he physically threatened you.

I'm currently in our apartment abroad. She's over as much as possible. I agree she should have but she just blew it off. We've been trying to move for ages now and the apartment is month by month contract so nothing else was very viable.

bee06

OP do you want someone on here to tell you it was sexual assault so you can go to the guards and get him kicked out because I dont think that's going to happen?

Genegirl83

Dunford wrote: »

Buy a small bolt for the inside of the door....it costs a couple of Euro and easy to put on.

Maybe this wasn't his first time coming into the room.

That's what I thought too...

amdublin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

That's what I thought too...

Ok I think you need to stick to facts here.

What the man says and what the man does. What the man said. What the man did.

Genegirl83

riffmongous wrote: »

How long has your partner been living there? And you're sure he's never tried anything before with her?

About a year. At first he hit on her like crazy but then he was in a relationship for 6 months or so. Since that it's escalated like it has.

amdublin

bee06 wrote: »

OP do you want someone on here to tell you it was sexual assault so you can go to the guards and get him kicked out because I dont think that's going to happen?

I think if she goes to the guards he will more than get kicked out.

He was fondling himself in front of them then it is more serious than just being kicked out. I assume there could/would be charges pressed against him.

riffmongous

Genegirl83 wrote: »

About a year. At first he hit on her like crazy but then he was in a relationship for 6 months or so. Since that it's escalated like it has.

And he knows she is planning to move out? Maybe he was just trying his luck, although its odd he would do that with you there as well if he doesnt like you.. she should definitely get a lock anyway, come up with a different excuse if she wont do it

Genegirl83

amdublin wrote: »

Ok I think you need to stick to facts here.

What the man says and what the man does. What the man said. What the man did.

I'm not hypothesising about what I saw, this is clearly a peripheral issue we're referring too and not immediate.

Genegirl83

Jelly Jack wrote: »

That's doubtful even if it dis happen that way. He was in his abode. The OP pains a picture of an aggressive sexual predator behaving in an overtly manner for over a year yet the partner doesn't move out. Something not adding up here.

Jelly, I trust my partner 100%. She rarely engages with him. I'd thank you not to go essentially "victim blaming". My main concern was it would be it's our word against his. With the mentality that this guy acted like he did but SHE didn't move out implies she deserved it. She doesn't. And even in my opinion, I can see why she stayed when she almost never had to see him and especially not engage.

blatantrereg

You're right to be alarmed. It's a big transgression. You can't assume normal standards of behaviour in someone who does that.

The attitude of being afraid to kick up a fuss is not good in this situation. It can lead to victimisation. It can be useful to think of it as complicity in your own victimisation, though that suggestion would be counter-productive in this case I think. My understanding is that she isn't acknowledging the problem.

I would insist on contacting the guards about it. Not sure you would get anywhere trying to get her to move out from my reading - though it is clearly the best thing to do if at all possible. You can insist on talking to the guards though.

LegacyUser

Is it possible that your a bit insecure about him living with your partner and you believe he is attracted to her?

Maybe it was a genuine mistake or sleep walking but you don't see it that way as you didn't like him prior to this.

I slept in a friends house before, went out for water and strayed into his parents bedroom.
It would have been unfair if they accused me of sexual assault...

If things are as bad as you say, in other words that your partner is loving with some kind of sexually motivated pest, then any normal person would be moving out urgently....

Genegirl83

amdublin wrote: »

I think if she goes to the guards he will more than get kicked out.

He was fondling himself in front of them then it is more serious than just being kicked out. I assume there could/would be charges pressed against him.

Yes, I believe he was pleasuring himself. That's why I'm freaked out. I just can't be 100% sure. It was poorly lit and he left quickly when he saw me.

retro:electro

Going to be careful with what I say here but are you sure something isn't going in with them? Otherwise I cannot understand why she wouldn't be as bothered about this incident as you are. Maybe he was flustered when he saw you there because he was expecting her to be alone. You say she "rarely engages with him", how exactly do you know this? You don't even live there. I find the fact that she's unwilling to say something to him about it pretty telling.

Buona Fortuna

Hi OP,

Is it possible to get some type of lock fitted to the door?

There are temporary removable ones that don't mark the door.

I'd post a link but I think its against the charter here.

Genegirl83

anna080 wrote: »

Going to be careful with what I say here but are you sure something isn't going in with them? Otherwise I cannot understand why she wouldn't be as bothered about this incident as you are. Maybe he was flustered when he saw you there because he was expecting her to alone. You say she "rarely engages with him", how exactly do you know this? You don't even live there. I find the fact that she's unwilling to say something to him about it pretty telling.

I don't know what to tell you... I trust my partner 100%. I'm a naturally suspicious, intelligent person. The girl is a lesbian. I believe what she says. I don't think that's naivety; it's trusting your partner when they have given you no real reason not to.

She was alarmed and freaked but I said I felt she should stay quiet. She wanted to say something. She sees there's a problem, just not as room for as big a problem as I do.

Genegirl83

bee06 wrote: »

OP do you want someone on here to tell you it was sexual assault so you can go to the guards and get him kicked out because I dont think that's going to happen?

No... How presumptuous.

Genegirl83

Jelly Jack wrote: »

I think living with this guy for years does not make sense. Why wouldn't she move out asap???

She's been there 1 year. We've been intending to move out for 8 of those. The problem was finding another place and a suitable lease when she needed to leave at short notice.

retro:electro

Genegirl83 wrote: »

I don't know what to tell you... I trust my partner 100%. I'm a naturally suspicious, intelligent person. The girl is a lesbian. I believe what she says. I don't think that's naivety; it's trusting your partner when they have given you no real reason not to.

She was alarmed and freaked but I said I felt she should stay quiet. She wanted to say something. She sees there's a problem, just not as room for as big a problem as I do.

Any reason as to why he frequently tells her that she's not a lesbian?

Genegirl83

anna080 wrote: »

Any reason as to why he frequently tells her that she's not a lesbian?

He said that almost as soon as he met her for a) looks and b) because she was one of those closet cases til she was 25 and went out with a bad guy. They had a drunken chat soon after she first moved in as like a "roomie"thing.

I'm very confident she's gay. Again, I'm not an idiot. If something was going on, I know I'd know about it. I'm not oblivious but I'm not paranoid either.

bee06

Genegirl83 wrote: »

No... How presumptuous.

I wasn't presuming anything, I was asking a question.

If I was in this situation I'd be making a plan of action to deal with it. You've already ruled out moving out, lock on the door, talking to the guy so I was asking if that was your plan of action?

LegacyUser

I am not a solicitor or barrister. We have an adversarial court system in this country and a criminal conviction can only be reached if a charge is proved beyond reasonable doubt.

I don't think the facts as outlined here would ever lead to the matter going to a criminal court.

Firstly, I'm assuming the lights were off? Secondly, you say you can't be certain of what you saw. Thirdly, am I right that your partner was performing oral sex on you and had her back to the man and also was under a duvet? So she didn't see anything? On this final point, how could a person, in the particular scenario you have outlined, give a professional medical opinion that the man was not sleep walking?

Clearly I agree with you and all others that she should move out, which seems to be in progress. However, on your question as to whether a sexual assault has occurred, I would say not.

Genegirl83

Unlikely wrote: »

I am not a solicitor or barrister. We have an adversarial court system in this country and a criminal conviction can only be reached if a charge is proved beyond reasonable doubt.

I don't think the facts as outlined here would ever lead to the matter going to a criminal court.

Firstly, I'm assuming the lights were off? Secondly, you say you can't be certain of what you saw. Thirdly, am I right that your partner was performing oral sex on you and had her back to the man and also was under a duvet? So she didn't see anything? On this final point, how could a person, in the particular scenario you have outlined, give a professional medical opinion that the man was not sleep walking?

Clearly I agree with you and all others that she should move out, which seems to be in progress. However, on your question as to whether a serious assault has occurred, I would say not.

OK this is perfect! Thank you! Means I can't do much, but it is perfect.

1. The bedroom lights were off but all the other lights in the apartment were on. I could see him but it could have been clearer, certainly.
2. No, I was manually touching her and the duvet obstructed her view of him. She could she his face etc, but not exactly where his hands were.

Genegirl83

bee06 wrote: »

I wasn't presuming anything, I was asking a question.

If I was in this situation I'd be making a plan of action to deal with it. You've already ruled out moving out, lock on the door, talking to the guy so I was asking if that was your plan of action?

Not to get him kicked out.

I'm not opposed to a lock, obviously. Just not one that creates permanent damage. One poster referenced mark less locks - perfect.

I'm also not opposed to a conversation. I'm just afraid he'd do something drastic.

CaraMay

You can't get him kicked out of a house you don't live in and your gf doesn't appear to want to. I don't see what options are now open to you op.

Roquentin

Genegirl83 wrote: »

Not to get him kicked out.

I'm not opposed to a lock, obviously. Just not one that creates permanent damage. One poster referenced mark less locks - perfect.

I'm also not opposed to a conversation. I'm just afraid he'd do something drastic.

i would seriously doubt that.

Genegirl83

Roquentin wrote: »

i would seriously doubt that.

See if you'd still be so confident if it was your partner.

CaraMay

Genegirl83 wrote: »

See if you'd still be so confident if it was your partner.

Op you came on to the site to ask for advice or opinions. You won't like all of them but we are taking time out of our days to reply to you. You need to respect that.

Genegirl83

CaraMay wrote: »

Op you came on to the site to ask for advice or opinions. You won't like all of them but we are taking time out of our days to reply to you. You need to respect that.

I do appreciate that but you'll forgive me if, when I ask a question about this specific situation, I get irritated when it's repeatedly (incorrectly) suggested that my partner is being unfaithful. This is my relationship with a scary event - not Criminal Minds meets Jeremy Kyle. It's insulting.

Littlekittylou

Roquentin wrote: »

i would seriously doubt that.

I wouldn't.

GalwayGuitar

Not sexual assault and I don't there's much point going to the Guards.

And it's very strange that they guy is as creepy as you claim he is and yet your partner doesn't want to move out.

dudara

@CaraMay - please leave the moderating to the mods.

dudara

Roquentin

Littlekittylou wrote: »

I wouldn't.

good for you

Littlekittylou

Genegirl83 wrote: »

I do appreciate that but you'll forgive me if, when I ask a question about this specific situation, I get irritated when it's repeatedly (incorrectly) suggested that my partner is being unfaithful. This is my relationship with a scary event - not Criminal Minds meets Jeremy Kyle. It's insulting.

If there is no evidence she is we should disregard it. It's what the girl said and did as well as what the guy said and did.

He walked in to their room and fondles himself in the night.

It looks not at all like sexual assault but rather more like sexual harassment.

It actually does not matter if he was sleep walking. He is still responsible.

Talk with him. If he says it was sleep walking (which is a spurious suggestion there is no evidence of it) then ask him to lock his door it is his responsibility to stop it happening again.

There is a context of his behavior he makes odd threatening remarks as in 'don't mess with me'. Etc.


I would give him one chance and talk about it. I would say in no uncertain terms that this must not happen again.

It is not just about your partner you were in the room too.

If he is unresponsive. Then personally I would not agree to spend the night with your GF there again for the sake of keeping yourself safe. I would try and get her to leave. It is a toxic environment to be in.

It is absolutely sexual harassment. It was a gross invasion of your privacy both of you as individuals and as a couple.

If it was sleep walking (which given his previous aggressive comments I really doubt) it is still his responsibility to ensure it does not happen again.

If it was a mistake all he need do is apologize profusely and never let it happen again if it was sleep walking then he should be eager to make amends for it. If he is not then I highly doubt it was sleep walking and was in fact intentional.

It is not an assault in my opinion if it was accidental it was inappropriate and a misdemeanor. If it was deliberate it was harassing.

He made his way into your room and had his hand down his trousers. It must have scared you. So I am sorry about that.

If it was sleeping walking then he should know so he can stop it before he gets into serious trouble and you should not have to put up with it anyway.

But given the fact that he has behaved awfully before all this I would wonder about him. You can't predict what he might do and that ambivalence would give anyone pause. Walking around with your hand in your pants in someone else's bedroom when they are there with there partner in the middle of the night is weird.

Littlekittylou

Jelly Jack wrote: »

Yes isn't it strange....

There is a disparity in their reactions that I cannot account for. I would ask the OP if her partner is afraid of him or had said she was uncomfortable with him before.

I don't think they are having an affair it seems unlikely as she is gay and he seems completely undesirable and 'off'. But it is possible her partner is just writing it off as 'one of those things'.

If your partner as perturbed as you are OP? If so she should move.

Also I would reiterate that it is NOT safe for yourself either. I would stop sleeping over. If it had happened to me I would not want to step foot in the place again. I would be scared.

Even if they WERE having and affair him walking into the room with his hands down his pants with someone else there is not ok. He should have apologized. He was aware enough to get out when he caught.

nealcassidy

Littlekittylou wrote: »

There is a disparity in their reactions that I cannot account for.

thats because you are on an internet forum and not talking in real life. i wouldnt play jessica fletcher on an internet forum, when you havent actually met the two women in question

Littlekittylou

nealcassidy wrote: »

thats because you are on an internet forum and not talking in real life. i wouldnt play jessica fletcher on an internet forum, when you havent actually met the two women in question

I apologize, but the OP is looking for the insights of strangers that is why she posted it. So i did my best. I'm am not saying I know more or less than anyone else and obviously less than the people involved.

No, I was manually touching her and the duvet obstructed her view of him. She could she his face etc, but not exactly where his hands were.

This could account for why she is taking it less serious.

I presume you have told her what YOU saw OP?

Littlekittylou

anna080 wrote: »

Any reason as to why he frequently tells her that she's not a lesbian?

It wouldn't matter if she wasn't a lesbian if the OP was man and the roomate walked in it would be just as weird.

Tokyo

Ok - the sideswipes, the petty comments and so on - they end here. As per the forum charter, if you can't post constructively towards the OP's issue, then don't post. Any further breaches of the charter or off topic discussion will be carded from here on.

Regards
Mike

cloudatlas

If you feel in any way under threat then get out now before something worse happens this is a gross invasion of privacy and he has insulted you both several times, everyone deserves to feel safe in their home.

blatantrereg

GalwayGuitar wrote: »

Not sexual assault and I don't there's much point going to the Guards.

And it's very strange that they guy is as creepy as you claim he is and yet your partner doesn't want to move out.

Don't know whether it would be considered sexual assault, or a different criminal act or whatever else. We're not allowed get into that sort of discussion in any case. The guards would be able to advise in that regard. They might talk to the man about his behaviour even if they wouldn't look to arrest him.

Beyond that it would achieve two things. Firstly it establishes that this sort of behaviour isn't going to be ignored or accepted. Secondly it drives home to the woman that it's a serious matter.

I wouldn't read into the woman not wanting to move. It's pretty common for people being victimised in one way or another to refuse to acknowledge it. It's distressing to acknowledge you are being preyed upon in one way or another, so it is human to pretend you aren't. Also it was mentioned that she is a doctor or a medic. She might have a very demanding job, and just not have the energy to deal with much outside of it.

GalwayGuitar

blatantrereg wrote: »

Don't know whether it would be considered sexual assault, or a different criminal act or whatever else. We're not allowed get into that sort of discussion in any case. The guards would be able to advise in that regard. They might talk to the man about his behaviour even if they wouldn't look to arrest him.

Beyond that it would achieve two things. Firstly it establishes that this sort of behaviour isn't going to be ignored or accepted. Secondly it drives home to the woman that it's a serious matter.

I wouldn't read into the woman not wanting to move. It's pretty common for people being victimised in one way or another to refuse to acknowledge it. It's distressing to acknowledge you are being preyed upon in one way or another, so it is human to pretend you aren't. Also it was mentioned that she is a doctor or a medic. She might have a very demanding job, and just not have the energy to deal with much outside of it.

Definitely not sexual assault as he didn't touch them. It would be indecent exposure but the chances of the op proving that in court are almost zero. To be honest I think the girl is pretty stupid not moving out IF the guy is as bad as the op is claiming. So I have to say I'm skeptical.

iusedtoknow

sexual assaut? No - to call it that cheapens what sexual assault actually is and what hundreds of women and men go through annually.

Indecent exposure/behavior? maybe

Creepy as hell ? Yes...100% definitely.

So my wife works crazy ass hours (a doctor, night shifts or day shifts that go on into nights). A few times I have got up when she comes in and um...am readjusting the lads as I come downstairs. She giggles and thinks nothing of it - but there is the slight difference of us living together and her knowing what is going on -it's her husband readjusting himself.

Your partner sounds like she is living with a really creepy guy, and the sooner she gets out of there the better

In the mean time - dead bolt the door and avoid avoid avoid.

Genegirl83

GalwayGuitar wrote: »

Not sexual assault and I don't there's much point going to the Guards.

And it's very strange that they guy is as creepy as you claim he is and yet your partner doesn't want to move out.

Why do I have to keep explaining why she doesn't move out? I know it'd be faaaar more interesting if this some sort of soap episode but it isn't...

She IS moving out. She has another apartment in another country that she's leaving for ASAP. Could any of you find a place tomorrow in expensive South Dublin that would take you on for a month? 4 months? I know what her finances are like - well paid or not, she's still a junior doctor and 800€ a month here and 600€ a month there on rent, excluding bills in an apartment you aren't even living in yet is a huge sum of money. Never mind the fact it's Christmas. Her friends work the same irregular (but different shifts) hours as her and to be honest, when she personally feels he's "just another drunk" who she's dealt with a thousand times in a hospital, "who I (she) can handle" I probably wouldn't feel the need to sleep on someone's couch for a few months either. Not when I had my own bed. That's not to say she hasn't been livid about this. She was before and she is now. We're just not sure what we should say. Not to mention, I doubt she could afford the deposit on somewhere else. AND she'd have to give a months notice in that place.

I'm not even going to bother to rise to comments thinking it's "strange" she doesn't leave, like it's some major indicator that she's having it off with him. How are you people any better than him? If somebody says they're gay/lesbian, can't we just assume that's what they are? Why do we have to start acting like detectives to find the reasons (no matter how certainly wrong or frivolous they are) as to why someone isn't gay? She's also committed, and if it were a lesbian doing this I'd still trust her.

If you seriously believe that her not moving out when she already has disengaged with him, has an apartment sorted elsewhere and a job abroad in the pipeline, has pulled him up about these things before and has never given me one hour of the day where I think she has/would ever cheat on me then I don't know what to tell you really. You're grasping at straws.