anti Islam rally

pug_in_tophat

If you want to read a smart, culturally sensitive take-down of Islam you should look up Sam Harris. The guy is often called an Islamophobe but he quite carefully criticizes the ideas in Islam, not their practitioners as a group or <cringe> ...as a race. (Muslims are quite clearly of many different races).

Nodin

Wurzelbert wrote: »

think that’s been discussed ad nauseam around here…the growing number of muslims will see to that, automatically like…and in, say, 2114 the chancellor of germany will likely be a muslim and won’t be called chancellor anymore…

That would Germany where the majority of muslims aren't practicing....

Deftlefthand wrote:

An expression son. Trying to see something that wasn't there eh?

Who was defending "extremist muslims" in this thread as per your earlier claim? Is there some reason you're dodging the question?

RobYourBuilder

This f*cking guy. He gets a sniff of a poll from years ago that poses muslims in Germany in a favourable light. He still treats it like gospel nearing up to 2015.

He's as brainwashed with multiculturalism as the muslims are with Islam. "It will work, it shall work, it has to work".

Nodin

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

This f*cking guy. He gets a sniff of a poll from years ago that poses muslims in Germany in a favourable light. He still treats it like gospel nearing up to 2015.

He's as brainwashed with multiculturalism as the muslims are with Islam. "It will work, it shall work, it has to work".

O Jesus no!!!!

dr.fuzzenstein

Tony EH wrote: »

This is all well and good and makes perfect sense. However, the Middle East has something that the west (ie America) wants and that isn't going to be solved be the niceties or logic above.

So religion is not to blame, but oil!
In that case, the electric car will either be the solution to world peace, or make things infinitely worse, as the petro-dollars to these countries dry up.
But I'm sure we will find something else to slaughter each other over.
As I stated before, because we are barely evolved, half-witted, half-apes, we will always want to clobber the other ape over the head, because he has more bananas than us.
We can sit here pretending to be rational beings, but if you look at the world, you will see that it doesn't take much for the monkey to start flinging poo. When I was member of a stargazing club, the director of the observatory would always say "The reason we haven't made contact with extraterrestrials yet, is because they had a look at us and decided we wouldn't even do as food"

Stealthfins

I think radicalisation needs to be stamped out, I am told most Muslims believe in jihad.
Where's my proof ?
I don't have any.
A while ago someone predicted blood on the streets if multiculturalism gets a hold on the UK

We sure do have street fights and shootings in our own country, but the extent of violence these radicals are proposing is an all out slaughter of innocent people.
While in the Koran it states not to kill innocents,where if you kill one person you might as well kill the whole of humanity.

What really worries me is the certain type of person who is embracing Islam,some seem like they are not too right in an emotional capacity, the same can be said about recovering addicts and alcoholics joining Christian groups.
Only out of the treatment centres, and find God, they're vulnerable weak willed and resentful.
Often looking for acceptance, they'll do anything to have friends and someone who they can latch onto.

Religion is ok when it's not used to discriminate or hate other's, but in the wrong hands it's lethal.

I had a rough point in my life of depression which lasted year's I turned to God enquired about Christian groups, found it creepy, tried Buddhism and it was too much another way.
I was interested in sufism, I asked someone about it, he told me it was the wrong way I'd be a kaffir and Allah pbuh wouldn't be happy.

With that kind of answer's I decided to go my own way and am happy ever since.

Billy86

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

There are less than half a million Mormons in the whole of Europe and circa 3,000 in Ireland. Do you think anyone would be worried about Islam if their numbers were equal?

There are over 550mn Christians in Europe. Don't go thinking you can paint all the different forms of one religion (Islam) with the same brush, but the try to pick and choose as you please when it comes to Christians.

Polygamy is also perfectly legal in the Christian nations of the Republic of the Cogo, Zambia and Uganda.

Billy86

nokia69 wrote: »

Mormans are not Christians

even the people living on Kolob would tell you that

Good thing Mormons know more about themselves than people on Kolob do about them, then:

LDS.org (as in lattter day saints.org): Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians. They worship God the Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ.

Gordon Hinckley (former President of the LDS Church): “We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ."

Stealthfins

alwald wrote: »

Buddhism is the main religion in Japan since at least 552 AD, bear in mind that Japanese were the first to blow themselves up as well as their planes, isn't that violence or murder?
Based on your two categories, where would you put the Japanese and the Buddhists now?

These Japanese guy's weren't blowing themselves up in the name of Buddhism.

They were doing it because they wanted to, there's millions of Buddhists you never here of them declaring the rest of the world are kaffirs.

Billy86

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So religion is not to blame, but oil!
In that case, the electric car will either be the solution to world peace, or make things infinitely worse, as the petro-dollars to these countries dry up.

Funny enough, the rise of oil allowed Wahhabism (which previously was only popular in a few places, most notably Saudi Arabia) to spread at a very fast rate in the middle east, as the influx of money allowed them to build many schools, universities, etc which all pushed their doctrine constantly, as well as hospitals and other necessities in parts of the world that had previously been lacking them that again operated partially as Wahhabist PR fronts at the same time. On top of this, Wahhabi religious texts were outprinting all other Muslim texts combined, and by quite a margin.

The US were in the middle east quite aggressively for oil and other resources, and because they were paranoid of the Soviets getting those resources. As a result they put in several puppet leaders of state who wouldn't ask questions and would let them control these resources... and then of course corporations began to get involved. The Americans were also pretty loudly Christian, as again the Soviet distancing of church and state was something that (ironically, as a country that was founded in part to separate church from state) they hated.

The people who lived in these countries got p*ssed off as their newly found source of wealth was under threat from an outsider (both geographically, politically and religiously) and a lot of unrest followed, in no small part, because of oil. As a response to these Christian outsiders, their primary response was to unify under Islam, and the rapidly spreading Wahhabist movement was the one taken for obvious reasons. It shouldn't come as any surprise that more and more extremist elements arose as Wahhabism had essentially created a Frankenstein (several, actually) under these circumstances.

So yeah, oil kind of played a pretty significant role in the recent rise of Islamic extremism.

Wurzelbert

Stealthfins wrote: »

I think radicalisation needs to be stamped out, I am told most Muslims believe in jihad.
Where's my proof ?
I don't have any.
A while ago someone predicted blood on the streets if multiculturalism gets a hold on the UK

We sure do have street fights and shootings in our own country, but the extent of violence these radicals are proposing is an all out slaughter of innocent people.
While in the Koran it states not to kill innocents,where if you kill one person you might as well kill the whole of humanity.[...]

it’s not just about actual extremism and blood on the streets…i would find the idea of notre dame, st paul's cathedral and the cologne cathedral turned into mosques and all pubs closed more than scary enough, even without any killings…and both would happen after a muslim takeover in the more distant future, as would many other nasty things…and i also do not want to see (tall) minarets in european cities, and that’s already happening in our time…
so we – as europeans - have every reason to try to prevent the rise of islam in our countries at any cost…it is a life and death struggle for the europe we know and (at least in my case) love…

and the quran does command muslims to kill infidels if they refuse to convert or pay…

Wurzelbert

ireland.man wrote: »

No problem, I'm getting tired myself! Anyway, the site's all in German and the only English section there has articles calling the EU a neo-communist entity and arguing that the United Nations are threatening world free speech. I'll try to source those stats and figures they have on their page before I dismiss them of course.

yeah, just the top two graphs, the 2nd one i am referring to, are in english, like just copied over from the source or so...in fact, this here seems to be the source methinks...here we go...

Wurzelbert

Nodin wrote: »

That would Germany where the majority of muslims aren't practicing....
[...]

practicing or not, they might still vote…if germany is still a democracy then, which also seems unlikely…

Annasopra

Wurzelbert wrote: »

it’s not just about actual extremism and blood on the streets…i would find the idea of notre dame, st paul's cathedral and the cologne cathedral turned into mosques and all pubs closed more than scary enough, even without any killings…and both would happen after a muslim takeover

Lol just lol

RobYourBuilder

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Lol just lol

Joseph,

How are LGBT folk treated in predominantly muslim countries? In the west, how do muslims view LGBT folk?

I've got the stats, by the way.

shruikan2553

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Joseph,

How are LGBT folk treated in predominantly muslim countries? In the west, how do muslims view LGBT folk?

I've got the stats, by the way.

They are treated about the same in Muslim and Christian countries which isn't very well. Then in the west we still have religious groups doing everything they can to prevent them from being seen as fully equal but I suppose they aren't being put in prison or killed so they should be thanking the glorious west every day we deem it OK for them to exist.

nokia69

Billy86 wrote: »

Good thing Mormons know more about themselves than people on Kolob do about them, then:

LDS.org (as in lattter day saints.org): Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians. They worship God the Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ.

Gordon Hinckley (former President of the LDS Church): “We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ."

yes, Mormons themselves do claim to be Christian, but that does not make it so

but what this has to do with islam is anyone's guess

BlaasForRafa

shruikan2553 wrote: »

They are treated about the same in Muslim and Christian countries which isn't very well. Then in the west we still have religious groups doing everything they can to prevent them from being seen as fully equal but I suppose they aren't being put in prison or killed so they should be thanking the glorious west every day we deem it OK for them to exist.

Gay people are treated the same in muslim countries as they are in Western Europe/USA/Australia? Really?

I know that being anti-western is a thing on boards but you can't be that deluded surely?

shruikan2553

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Gay people are treated the same in muslim countries as they are in Western Europe/USA/Australia? Really?

I know that being anti-western is a thing on boards but you can't be that deluded surely?

Try again, I'll bold a few bits to help you. Bolding words isnt anti-western is it? Wouldnt want more of this retarded anti-everything crap. You cant be deluded enough to think that the west is perfect in every way can you?

shruikan2553 wrote: »

They are treated about the same in Muslim and Christian countries which isn't very well. Then in the west we still have religious groups doing everything they can to prevent them from being seen as fully equal but I suppose they aren't being put in prison or killed so they should be thanking the glorious west every day we deem it OK for them to exist.

There are more Christian countries outside of the west.

Billy86

nokia69 wrote: »

yes, Mormons themselves do claim to be Christian, but that does not make it so

but what this has to do with islam is anyone's guess

Actually it does, that's how it works - they believe in God, the teachings of Jesus and follow the Bible. Just because your denomination disagrees with them doesn't make them non-Christian, or do you agree with the assertions of moderate Muslims that some of them such as extremists "are not real Muslims"?

What it has to do with Islam is that if we are going to tar all Muslims with the same brush then we can't cherry pick which Christian denominations can and cannot represent Christianity. Likewise with Christianity in the likes of Uganda, the DRC and Zambia.

Wurzelbert

nokia69 wrote: »

yes, Mormons themselves do claim to be Christian, but that does not make it so

but what this has to do with islam is anyone's guess

mormons

Annasopra

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Joseph,

How are LGBT folk treated in predominantly muslim countries? In the west, how do muslims view LGBT folk?

I've got the stats, by the way.

Do you honestly expect me to take some of the crap coming from this thread seriously?

Grayson

Billy86 wrote: »

Actually it does, that's how it works - they believe in God, the teachings of Jesus and follow the Bible. Just because your denomination disagrees with them doesn't make them non-Christian, or do you agree with the assertions of moderate Muslims that some of them such as extremists "are not real Muslims"?

What it has to do with Islam is that if we are going to tar all Muslims with the same brush then we can't cherry pick which Christian denominations can and cannot represent Christianity. Likewise with Christianity in the likes of Uganda, the DRC and Zambia.

It's worth remembering the the KKK consider themselves a Christian organisation. Most white supremacist groups consider themselves white Christian organisations.

the bible is also cited as justification for their actions/beliefs. Black people are considered to have the "mark of Ham" (nothing to do with ham or bacon for that matter).

ireland.man

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Joseph,

How are LGBT folk treated in predominantly muslim countries? In the west, how do muslims view LGBT folk?

I've got the stats, by the way.

Well just to note, do you support marriage equality and adoption rights for gay couples?

You probably do but it's interesting to see from what positions people are approaching this from.

Annasopra

ireland.man wrote: »

Well just to note, do you support marriage equality and adoption rights for gay couples?

You probably do but it's interesting to see from what positions people are approaching this from.

No. He doesnt.

ireland.man

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No. He doesnt.

Oh, but of course he supports increased immigration to Ireland of Christians from Nigeria, Syria, Iraq, etc where they're persecuted, right?

Annasopra

ireland.man wrote: »

Oh, but of course he supports increased immigration to Ireland of Christians from Nigeria, Syria, Iraq, etc where they're persecuted, right?

Ah leave him off.

Leave him to show off his two faced double standards by on the one hand opposing lgbt rights and then complaining about Muslims and lgbt rights.

dr.fuzzenstein

I don't usually hang around AH, is this normal?

ireland.man

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't usually hang around AH, is this normal?

You mean extraordinary claims not being backed up by reputable sources or relevant, hard evidence and when people don't take those claims at face value, insults about being traitors to your culture, being 'pc', etc are thrown out. Yes, it's depressingly normal here.

alwald

What is 'PC' by the way?

Grayson

ireland.man wrote: »

You mean extraordinary claims not being backed up by reputable sources or relevant, hard evidence and when people don't take those claims at face value, insults about being traitors to your culture, being 'pc', etc are thrown out. Yes, it's depressingly normal here.

You would say that. I have a photocopy of your membership for the PC brigade.

shruikan2553

alwald wrote: »

What is 'PC' by the way?

Politically Correct. Its exact definition depends on who is saying it. Most of the time its anyone who doesnt agree with a person about an opinion they have on a group of people.

Billy86

Grayson wrote: »

It's worth remembering the the KKK consider themselves a Christian organisation. Most white supremacist groups consider themselves white Christian organisations.

the bible is also cited as justification for their actions/beliefs. Black people are considered to have the "mark of Ham" (nothing to do with ham or bacon for that matter).

But hey, it only counts when other, non Christian people do it, and don't you forget that!

Donkey Oaty

alwald wrote: »

What is 'PC' by the way?

The Urban Dictionary definitions of PC Brigade gives two definitions - take your pick.

Left wing Do-gooders who believe that any diversion from their infantile world view should be countered not with reasoned debate or compromise, but with ad hominen attacks. Typically they silence discussion with epithets such as "racist", "sexist" or "homophobe" because they know that they would not survive long in a fair debate using Facts and Logic

Or:

A smug, knee-jerk, ill-defined catch-all word that is overused by closet racists, sexists, homophobes and bigots to describe anyone who dares to challenge their hate speech with the values of respect and common human decency.

Nodin

Wurzelbert wrote: »

it’s not just about (...........)for the europe we know and (at least in my case) love…

and the quran does command muslims to kill infidels if they refuse to convert or pay…

You really would have been more at home in the times of the Goths and the Vandals.

ireland.man

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Politically Correct. Its exact definition depends on who is saying it. Most of the time its anyone who doesnt agree with a person about an opinion they have on a group of people.

Plus it has a very cynical origin. Although it existed for decades, it was popularised by American conservatives in order to undercut all arguments around race, gender equality and poverty in the 1980s. The conservatives pushing its use couldn't have hoped for better results... now we have conservative parrots reusing the term every time they're presented with a stronger argument (stronger in logic, evidence, etc).

So for example I say Islam has informed Western culture in numerous and significant and positive ways because of the excavation reports of sites in Murcia I've read or scholarship I've spent a very long time going over, it's harder to debate against that because it requires also using the opponent's knowledge and research of those topics. It's easier for them to simply make an appeal to common sense, anecdotes and when all else fails, claim the person is just worried about offending Muslims! So when you see 'pc' being used, understand you're winning!

Tony EH

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So religion is not to blame, but oil!

You bet your damn life it is.

Annasopra

I'm not a big Merkel fan but I admire her for standing up and saying it like it is

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/11319519/Angela-Merkel-attacks-prejudice-and-hatred-of-German-Islamisation-marches.html

Snake Plisken

Just when you thought this thread was dead the "lads" bring it back to life!

ireland.man

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I'm not a big Merkel fan but I admire her for standing up and saying it like it is

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/11319519/Angela-Merkel-attacks-prejudice-and-hatred-of-German-Islamisation-marches.html

It's good to see her identify a growing problem but the problem is the rise of the extreme right in Europe is mostly based on her austerity policies.

Letree

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I'm not a big Merkel fan but I admire her for standing up and saying it like it is

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/11319519/Angela-Merkel-attacks-prejudice-and-hatred-of-German-Islamisation-marches.html

She is making a mistake by basically saying; I dismiss your fears, you are racists now go away.

ireland.man

Letree wrote: »

She is making a mistake by basically saying; I dismiss your fears, you are racists now go away.

Didn't you post an English Defence League video on this thread?

shruikan2553

Letree wrote: »

She is making a mistake by basically saying; I dismiss your fears, you are racists now go away.

How is it a mistake?

nokia69

shruikan2553 wrote: »

How is it a mistake?

because the people of Germany and every other country should have a choice

and if the people don't want to see their countries changed by large numbers of muslims then the political elite should take note

alwald

nokia69 wrote: »

because the people of Germany and every other country should have a choice

and if the people don't want to see their countries changed by large numbers of muslims then the political elite should take note

17,000 people don't represent the entire German community. I bet if you ask the entire community then the majority will vote for diversity, who wouldn't?? only racists in my point of view wouldn't vote for it.

nokia69

alwald wrote: »

17,000 people don't represent the entire German community. I bet if you ask the entire community then the majority will vote for diversity, who wouldn't?? only racists in my point of view wouldn't vote for it.

nope

I bet if it was put to a vote the German people would vote for less or no islamic immigration into Germany

and I bet most other countries would be the same

Annasopra

nokia69 wrote: »

because the people of Germany and every other country should have a choice

and if the people don't want to see their countries changed by large numbers of muslims then the political elite should take note

She hasnt outlawed the marches she has merely pointed out the truth that they are driven by racism, coldness and hatred.

nokia69

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

She hasnt outlawed the marches she has merely pointed out the truth that they are driven by racism, coldness and hatred.

I never said she outlawed anything

and playing the race card will only work for a while

ireland.man

nokia69 wrote: »

I never said she outlawed anything

and playing the race card will only work for a while

Just as an aside, and of course it's a loaded question but it'd be good to know anyway, do you support gay marriage, gay adoption rights and increased immigration into the EU from Christians in the Middle East and Nigeria if they're being persecuted?

alwald

nokia69 wrote: »

I never said she outlawed anything

and playing the race card will only work for a while

At least she is an educated person, she influenced and she is still influencing Europe at many levels, she has access to some data that only a handful of people in the world have access to, If there was any risk for Germany/Europe she wouldn't condemn this racist march. but who are these people who are marching against a religion? what's their agenda? what do they know?