Taking it to the next level?

daviecronin

Hello everyone, Havent been 'on' in a while but just wanted to ask something to the professionals ye are

So over the past month or two I was setting up my events company. I have a page on facebook now with nearly 2,000 likes. We had our first event yesterday in a prominent hotel in Cork city. After all the hours of planning it really came together for me. We filled the room with 420 teenagers - the event was mainly 15/16 year olds. It was offically a 'ball' so the lads were in pants and waistcoats and the girls were in dresses!

We charged €15 for a ticket. With that ticket came a token for a drink and a token for the candyfloss and on the night there was a free photobooth with a professional photographer that took photos and printed them in 30 seconds. Last night really gave me a good 'buzz'. By the way €15 for a ticket with all those free attractions is an extremely good price, considering the likes of Savoy charge €20 for no attractions. I really want to move this up a level. I'm already planning my next event for easter coming. I was planning to up it to €20 and have a good few attractions - so there would be more in it for me I dont know if anyone here has experience in the likes of what I'm doing but has anyone have advice? I will definetely have one for Easter but then school will be starting to build. Going into Sixth year next year. I really want to keep this up and running.

Also I dont have any experience in this area but party planning? Is that a thing? We could go in and organise a 21st or something from top to bottom and charge for our services?

Also.... I plan to build up a book of contacts who to avoid and who to keep and maybe get in touch with celebrities. Last night we had a well known DJ in Ireland who has millions of views on YouTube. These contacts could become very valueable..

Basically what I'm trying to say is I need more direction? Should i stick with underage events? Should i be an agency? Should I be a party planner? Or should i be all three haha?

Thanks very much for reading the post! Also if i keep saying 'we' I mean 'me' I did everything myself from top to bottom.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Celly Smunt

I'm pretty Sure it is a "Thing" and im Sure there is a gap in The market for it. I guess a bit of market Research would help before You dive into it,have a Look at competitors and see what they're doing wrong and try to see also if The market is already too saturated.

I used to promote local gigs back in The day and for me i hated every Minute of it as it was a complete logistical nightmare for a small return. There's a tightrope You have to walk in Terms of making your event unique though This will cost Money, The More Money it costs the less You get and The higher You Charge the less foot fall You get. If You Can find away to hit a Sweet spot in Terms of pricing without going Over Board on costs their could br something though be aware that The risk of not Meeting costs for an event Are very high if You dont pre sell.

daviecronin

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I'm pretty Sure it is a "Thing" and im Sure there is a gap in The market for it. I guess a bit of market Research would help before You dive into it,have a Look at competitors and see what they're doing wrong and try to see also if The market is already too saturated.

I used to promote local gigs back in The day and for me i hated every Minute of it as it was a complete logistical nightmare for a small return. There's a tightrope You have to walk in Terms of making your event unique though This will cost Money, The More Money it costs the less You get and The higher You Charge the less foot fall You get. If You Can find away to hit a Sweet spot in Terms of pricing without going Over Board on costs their could br something though be aware that The risk of not Meeting costs for an event Are very high if You dont pre sell.

Thanks for your advice! That's exactly what we had to do, we offered something unique and not seen before and at a better price. Since it was our first event I was okay with the lower price but I might up it to €20 come the new year. Yes its stressful enough owing people money and not exactly having it at the time. We sold over 300 before hand and another 120ish on the door. It all depends on competition and pricing and what time of the year it is I suppose

hagoonabear

Well done on your success Davie , its great seeing young entrepreneurs achieving something that was once only an idea .

daviecronin

hagoonabear wrote: »

Well done on your success Davie , its great seeing young entrepreneurs achieving something that was once only an idea .

Thanks Hagoonabear for your kind words! It's something you just have to keep pushing yourself on. If you have the dream you can achieve it! Some of my friends are stuck in jobs for €5 euro and hour and I'm turning over thousands. The only way future for me is working for myself I think!

OU812

Remember that turnover =/= profit.

Know what your breakeven point is financially because after that is your profit.

Have you accounted for VAT in your calculations as well as other taxes? While your friends might be "stuck in €5 an hour jobs", they might be making more money than you.

If you're organising events, try to have someone on staff who actually knows what they're doing logistically. If you have to hire equipment, if it's late going back you'll be liable for extra rental which will affect your bottom line.

I think if you're concentrating on an under 18s market, that you're going to get away with a lot more as their expectations should be lower.

Good luck.

daviecronin

OU812 wrote: »

Remember that turnover =/= profit.

Know what your breakeven point is financially because after that is your profit.

Have you accounted for VAT in your calculations as well as other taxes? While your friends might be "stuck in €5 an hour jobs", they might be making more money than you.

If you're organising events, try to have someone on staff who actually knows what they're doing logistically. If you have to hire equipment, if it's late going back you'll be liable for extra rental which will affect your bottom line.

I think if you're concentrating on an under 18s market, that you're going to get away with a lot more as their expectations should be lower.

Good luck.

Hi OU812,

Thanks for your say. I know that turnover doesn't equal profit but my profit margin is at about 30% which I expect to rise a lot in the next event as we have planned how we are spending our money better. I'm not knocking my friends who are getting jobs! I think its a great idea, I tried unbelievably hard to get a job but not a place would talk me on. So I said F*** them all I'm going to earn my own money. They equipment we hired had the people themselves manning it so there was no problem there with times etc! I did mean to register for a sole trader with a TR1 form would that be right? But I wouldn't be taxed anyway as I wouldn't reach anywhere near the threshold.

dbran

Hi Dave

Good to hear that your event worked out and you are finding your feet in your own business.

The point that OU812 makes about VAT is a very valid one especially if it is the case that facilities are available for the consumption of food and drink during the event.

Best of luck with it though.

Kind Regards


Dbran

daviecronin

dbran wrote: »

Hi Dave

Good to hear that your event worked out and you are finding your feet in your own business.

The point that OU812 makes about VAT is a very valid one especially if it is the case that facilities are available for the consumption of food and drink during the event.

Best of luck with it though.

Kind Regards


Dbran

Hi Dbran, thanks for your response! Yes about VAT is it a TR1 form you have to fill out? And you are obviously not taxed until you reach a certain amount? Would your accounts have to be filled out by and official accountant? Sorry for all the questions!

collegeme

daviecronin wrote: »

Hi Dbran, thanks for your response! Yes about VAT is it a TR1 form you have to fill out? And you are obviously not taxed until you reach a certain amount? Would your accounts have to be filled out by and official accountant? Sorry for all the questions!

TR1 form is for registering as a sole trader. You are taxed on everything over your tax credit as such but you don't have to resgister for VAT until you turnover about €36k in a year when providing a service.

dbran

Hi Dave

You must complete an Income tax return once you are earning any additional income, calculate the taxes due and pay it over in October every year.

The threshold level for services is €37,500 per annum. However if you believe that your turnover is going to be more than this amount in the next year then you need to register now. You cannot just wait until you pass that level to register. So if you are planning to run anything less then 5 events in the year the chances are you don,t need to register. If you are going to be running more then 5 then you probably do need to register.

Its great that you are running all of these things but you should keep your feet on the ground and do thread carefully. Dont let the initial success go to your head because as a business person, you are only ever as good as your last job/event and you are always only one step away from a messup. That will be the real test for you when it happens and how you recover and deal with it (which I'm sure you will).

Best of luck and keep it up.

Dbran

daviecronin

Thanks for the advice Dbran and Collegeme,

So it might be better to register now. The possible turnover for the next one could be €12,000 considering we will up the price to €20. So it might be better to do it now. By next October will I have to have my accounts done out professionally or how will that work?

Don't worry Dbran I'm not that full of myself haha! I've run into issues before and I will undoubtedly run into them again. I know where and why I lost money on the last one and were to improve on it! So that's good I suppose!

elastico

daviecronin wrote: »

Yes its stressful enough owing people money and not exactly having it at the time.

The market preys on the week and underfunded. Suppose for a minute you got lucky first time, maybe it was coming into Christmas / end of term etc., and Mammy and Daddy were saying, sure heres €50 child, go out and have a good night because after Christmas its all study for the leaving or junior cert or whatever.

So you run a gig at Easter and only sell 100 tickets, all the mammies and daddies have paid for the kids to go to grind school for the weeks, how would you cover an event that returns a loss?

And another thing to be wary of, these things have a habit of going t1ts up when a load of kids turn up drunk, smuggle in drink, start a riot, puke all over the place, gardai get called and mammies and daddies won't fund the next one - so be wise to this possible scenario.

Anyway life is a learning curve, you will probably go bust, learn from this and come back stronger in your next venture.

Some people keep coming back, look at Bill Cullen for inspiration!

daviecronin

elastico wrote: »

The market preys on the week and underfunded. Suppose for a minute you got lucky first time, maybe it was coming into Christmas / end of term etc., and Mammy and Daddy were saying, sure heres €50 child, go out and have a good night because after Christmas its all study for the leaving or junior cert or whatever.

So you run a gig at Easter and only sell 100 tickets, all the mammies and daddies have paid for the kids to go to grind school for the weeks, how would you cover an event that returns a loss?

And another thing to be wary of, these things have a habit of going t1ts up when a load of kids turn up drunk, smuggle in drink, start a riot, puke all over the place, gardai get called and mammies and daddies won't fund the next one - so be wise to this possible scenario.

Anyway life is a learning curve, you will probably go bust, learn from this and come back stronger in your next venture.

Some people keep coming back, look at Bill Cullen for inspiration!

Ya you have to target them at school holidays! And no at Easter I don't think any TYs will be going to grind schools so you're wrong there! Teenagers love events to celebrate something. There is charity balls in Cork in the middle of the week and people still go to them!

Also with regards to drink etc. Our security was amazing. Literally. We had two lines Men patting down the lads and a woman patting down the girls. Every single inch of every single bag was checked. Any water bottles were tasted and smelled. Anyone expected to have drink was kept aside and questioned individually. One boy had to go home because he was so drunk and security called his parents and all was okay.

No need to be so negative saying I'm going to fail as if it was for definite. The next one is only going to be bigger and better.

elastico

daviecronin wrote: »

No need to be so negative saying I'm going to fail as if it was for definite.

Not trying to sound negative just trying to point out some of the pitfalls that can and will happen to any business, look at Garth Brooks last summer and all the money that was lost along the way from the artist, to the promoters to the GAA.

No matter how well it goes or not you will learn from this and hopefully come up with a bigger and better idea.

collegeme

daviecronin wrote: »

No need to be so negative saying I'm going to fail as if it was for definite. The next one is only going to be bigger and better.

I don't think it was negative just some good advice to keep your feet on the ground.

You are getting mixed up between registering for income tax and registering for VAT.
In my opinion, you do not want to be registering for VAT unless you *have* to.

daviecronin

elastico wrote: »

Not trying to sound negative just trying to point out some of the pitfalls that can and will happen to any business, look at Garth Brooks last summer and all the money that was lost along the way from the artist, to the promoters to the GAA.

No matter how well it goes or not you will learn from this and hopefully come up with a bigger and better idea.

I think I have covered the majority of pitfalls. I don't think you can compare my events to Garth Brooks in fairness. That was just stupidity of the GAA, money grabbers the lot of them. I think this idea is a good one and could be applied to every city in the country if possible

daviecronin

collegeme wrote: »

I don't think it was negative just some good advice to keep your feet on the ground.

You are getting mixed up between registering for income tax and registering for VAT.
In my opinion, you do not want to be registering for VAT unless you *have* to.

Oh Okay, so what form exactly do I feel out to register for income tax? TR1? I also found out about another site CRO.IE official registration for companies? The government definitely doesn't make it half confusing, almost as if they don't want your money

professore

collegeme wrote: »

I don't think it was negative just some good advice to keep your feet on the ground.

You are getting mixed up between registering for income tax and registering for VAT.
In my opinion, you do not want to be registering for VAT unless you *have* to.

Can anyone really live out of a business that turns over less than 37500 a year? At a 20% profit margin that's only about 8 K profit a year.

Also means handing 23% of the price of every ticket to the Revenue ... And they are merciless when it comes to collecting VAT ... Up to and including jail time.

So the OP definitely should register for VAT if he wants to make a living.

Also has he thought about insurance? One kid falling and getting whiplash could cost him dear.

Good luck by the way !

daviecronin

professore wrote: »

Can anyone really live out of a business that turns over less than 37500 a year? At a 20% profit margin that's only about 8 K profit a year.

Also means handing 23% of the price of every ticket to the Revenue ... And they are merciless when it comes to collecting VAT ... Up to and including jail time.

So the OP definitely should register for VAT if he wants to make a living.

Also has he thought about insurance? One kid falling and getting whiplash could cost him dear.

The state gets enough sher

All insurance is/was covered by the hotel, public liability insurance?

professore

daviecronin wrote: »

The state gets enough sher

All insurance is/was covered by the hotel, public liability insurance?

I'd get that in writing from their insurance company.

Axwell

daviecronin wrote: »

The state gets enough sher

All insurance is/was covered by the hotel, public liability insurance?

Probably a good idea to lose the winks and smiley faces with the attitude towards not paying tax..especially when your username is your own actual name...

pedroeibar1

We’ve spoken about this before, you did not like my advice then and probably will not like it now. You really need to get your feet on the ground and see the bigger picture. A couple of grand net profit seems like a lot of money when you are in fifth year, but in reality it is just chickens#1t, pocketmoney. Use it to have a holiday after you get a great LC result. That is your objective. The rest is plain BS. You have the potential, you’ve proven that, but you need something wider to build on. You will not get that experience form running discos, you will from third level.
Do you remember two gobdaws with weird hair who gave up school because they won a TV show? Where are they now? Doing what? Do not fall into that trap.;)

daviecronin

Axwell wrote: »

Probably a good idea to lose the winks and smiley faces with the attitude towards not paying tax..especially when your username is your own actual name...

Wow wow wow, who every said my username was my real name?

daviecronin

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

We’ve spoken about this before, you did not like my advice then and probably will not like it now. You really need to get your feet on the ground and see the bigger picture. A couple of grand net profit seems like a lot of money when you are in fifth year, but in reality it is just chickens#1t, pocketmoney. Use it to have a holiday after you get a great LC result. That is your objective. The rest is plain BS. You have the potential, you’ve proven that, but you need something wider to build on. You will not get that experience form running discos, you will from third level.
Do you remember two gobdaws with weird hair who gave up school because they won a TV show? Where are they now? Doing what? Do not fall into that trap.;)

Thanks for your say, Getting a couple grand every time I run an event is nothing to look down on. More than some peoples monthly wages! Personally I think one gets a lot of experience from running events, dealing with customers, problems, timing, on the spot thinking. You don't learn everything inside a class room They don't teach you how to be a great entrepreneur in business studies its a matter of going out there and doing it yourself. I don't know who you're on about in regard to that tv show but don't worry I'm not dropping out of school just yet!

dbran

Please guys lets not go down this road again.

Dbran

Axwell

daviecronin wrote: »

Wow wow wow, who every said my username was my real name?

Either way do yourself a favour and avoid the talk about avoiding tax and the winking..its immature..