Another black teenager shot by police in St Louis

SEPT 23 1989

end of the road wrote: »

he is a liability and bringing risk on to the rest of the force, therefore he has to go. unfair, but thats life.

What would you do in that cops situation?

punisher5112

We are all equal as whatever colour we all are.

I am sick to death with all the race cards and black this black that.

It is extremely sad people have been shot and killed but the U.S is one dangerous place.

I hope all the mindless riots stop and executions of officers along with innocent people that are murdered every day its sad and disgusting and I just hope people will cop on with themselves.

Do not pull a gun on an officer or try and take their weapon and these shootings would not happen.

R.I.P to all those that have lost their lives.

FGR

I'm pro police officers carrying cameras as it's an excellent way to show that they are doing their jobs to the best of their skill and ability. The caveat is that those officers should be authorised to use that footage against suspects in court as proof of work done.

However; to the posters here that appear not to trust the police in any way, shape or form - would you be willing to wear a camera recording everything you say and do at work; especially something that might happen expectantly at work which is solely to do with your area of responsibility? Do you not feel your employer and peers should have some element of trust in your skill and ability?

No police officer goes out at the start of their shift thinking 'today i'm going to kill someone'. Does a firefighter go into work thinking 'today i will attend a sudden, emergency house fire and i won't bother putting it out and let everyone inside die' or does a surgeon go into work thinking 'today an emergency patient will come in and i won't bother performing surgery and will let them die'.

Just putting it out there. People need to trust that the Police are human beings too who, contrary to popular belief; are already subject to many checks and balances.

Manic Moran

Dan_Solo wrote: »

"That fear is gone. Now that fear is in us."
You didn't read it at all, did you?

Ah, I read it, but I think we came to different opinions. I don't see anything wrong with the bad guys he referenced in that statement fearing the long arm of the law. When the police show up, I think they should damned well be afraid. The point of the police is to stop bad guys from doing what they want, no? I interpreted that you read it as 'fear of being killed.' If that is incorrect, I apologise

tomwaterford

FGR wrote: »

I'm pro police officers carrying cameras as it's an excellent way to show that they are doing their jobs to the best of their skill and ability. The caveat is that those officers should be authorised to use that footage against suspects in court as proof of work done.

However; to the posters here that appear not to trust the police in any way, shape or form - would you be willing to wear a camera recording everything you say and do at work; especially something that might happen expectantly at work which is solely to do with your area of responsibility? Do you not feel your employer and peers should have some element of trust in your skill and ability?

No police officer goes out at the start of their shift thinking 'today i'm going to kill someone'. Does a firefighter go into work thinking 'today i will attend a sudden, emergency house fire and i won't bother putting it out and let everyone inside die' or does a surgeon go into work thinking 'today an emergency patient will come in and i won't bother performing surgery and will let them die'.

Just putting it out there. People need to trust that the Police are human beings too who, contrary to popular belief; are already subject to many checks and balances.

I actually agree with the idea of the police carrying camera/even micrphones (how realistic it is,is another question)

though I will say there is a scary amount of blind acceptance/no questioning the actions of police (happens with gaurds here too)
to blindy accept/not question them on anything will inevitably lead to abuse of power (see RCC in large parts of Ireland)

BorneTobyWilde

Most important thing is that gunman is dead and cop is at home with his family. There are people in prison here who don't deserve their free 3 meals, their free sky tv, their free music lessons,their free gym membership, they deserve a bullet. Ireland,where crime does pay .
I think this man got what he deserted .

moneymad

willmunny1990 wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/story/1397150/black-teen-shot-dead-by-police-in-st-louis

SO?

end of the road

FGR wrote: »

I'm pro police officers carrying cameras as it's an excellent way to show that they are doing their jobs to the best of their skill and ability. The caveat is that those officers should be authorised to use that footage against suspects in court as proof of work done.

However; to the posters here that appear not to trust the police in any way, shape or form - would you be willing to wear a camera recording everything you say and do at work; especially something that might happen expectantly at work which is solely to do with your area of responsibility? Do you not feel your employer and peers should have some element of trust in your skill and ability?

No police officer goes out at the start of their shift thinking 'today i'm going to kill someone'. Does a firefighter go into work thinking 'today i will attend a sudden, emergency house fire and i won't bother putting it out and let everyone inside die' or does a surgeon go into work thinking 'today an emergency patient will come in and i won't bother performing surgery and will let them die'.

Just putting it out there. People need to trust that the Police are human beings too who, contrary to popular belief; are already subject to many checks and balances.

if a force has a bad reputation and a bad history then it doesn't deserve the trust of the public.

Tugboats

Santa has knocked Antonio Martin off the trending list on Twitter. Poor lad cant catch a break

end of the road

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Most important thing is that gunman is dead and cop is at home with his family.

someone dead and a severe danger to society on the loose is whats important, i agree. this cop needs to be shiped off somewhere else or pensioned off now to ensure less risk to the rest.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

There are people in prison here who don't deserve their free 3 meals, their free sky tv, their free music lessons,their free gym membership

if they even have those things they do deserve them. they would have got them via the rewards and privilages scheme. a scheme which means such rewards and privilages can be taken away for bad behaviour, and for good behaviour one will be rewarded. it is an incentive to behave and reform, and means the prison runs smoothly.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

they deserve a bullet.

lovely. your no better then the people you say deserve a bullit.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Ireland,where crime does pay .

stop reading the indo. its rotting your brain

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I think this man got what he deserted .

no he didn't.

Manic Moran

Agricola wrote: »

Seems to me theres two options. Either impose strict gun laws with the aim of severely limiting civilian access to them, or leave the law as it it and let police continue to do what they have to do, i.e. shoot people who brandish weapons in public.

I'm happy enough with #2. You go around threatening people in public with a weapon, expect the appropriate response. The strict guns laws option is (a) impractical for a number of reasons, and (b) legally pretty much impossible.

QUOTE=egginacupThis prick and dozens of his buddies who were in on the act tried to infiltrate peaceful protesters and even smashed windows to try and make it look like the protesters were some mob of knuckleheaded anarchists.[/quote]

BS. Have you a single reference for that? As for 'peaceful protestors', allow me to fill you in as to what's been going on up the road from my office, here in the Bay Area. Every night for days have been protests and riots. Not peaceful ones either, no. The CHP incident you refer to was on Night #5. http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/12/berkeley_protests_violent_poli.html
And, as ever in these things, the majority of the arrestees are from out of town. As they say, you don't dump in your back yard, these guys are coming in to cause trouble. And the best way to identify these people? Yep, you guessed it. Undercover officers monitoring from nearby. Not from within the crowd, they were identified -following- the crowd. As evidenced by the fact that when attacked by the gentleman shown on the ground, they had the room to defend themselves.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-highway-patrol-defends-officer-who-drew-gun-on-protesters/

When they got out of the car and started following on foot, protesters began pointing and yelling "they're cops." One officer was struck in the head, and that's when the other tried to protect him.

"At the same time, a group of about 30 to 50 folks encircled the officers and began to close in upon them. Our officer drew his baton and badge telling the crowd to stop and back up. They did not. They continued to advance, so he transitioned from his baton and drew his firearm and pointed it at the crowd," said CHP Golden Gate Division Commander Avery Brown.

Oakland police arrived to disperse the crowd. The protester who allegedly attacked the officer was taken away and booked on felony assault charges.

CHP said that officer suffered head injuries and may have a concussion. According to Brown, the two officers' actions will be investigated by the district attorney's office but they remain on duty. Their names were not released.

end of the road wrote: »

no you don't.

"Deserve" is probably the wrong word, but it is not an unreasonable resolution of the situation either. By threatening to shoot someone, you indicate that whatever your goal is, be it mugging or protection, it's worth taking a life, which also means it's worth taking one to protect such.

end of the road

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm happy enough with #2. You go around threatening people in public with a weapon, expect the appropriate response. The strict guns laws option is (a) impractical for a number of reasons, and (b) legally pretty much impossible.

[

BS. Have you a single reference for that? As for 'peaceful protestors', allow me to fill you in as to what's been going on up the road from my office, here in the Bay Area. Every night for days have been protests and riots. Not peaceful ones either, no. The CHP incident you refer to was on Night #5. http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/12/berkeley_protests_violent_poli.html
And, as ever in these things, the majority of the arrestees are from out of town. As they say, you don't dump in your back yard, these guys are coming in to cause trouble. And the best way to identify these people? Yep, you guessed it. Undercover officers monitoring from nearby. Not from within the crowd, they were identified -following- the crowd. As evidenced by the fact that when attacked by the gentleman shown on the ground, they had the room to defend themselves.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-highway-patrol-defends-officer-who-drew-gun-on-protesters/

"Deserve" is probably the wrong word, but it is not an unreasonable resolution of the situation either. By threatening to shoot someone, you indicate that whatever your goal is, be it mugging or protection, it's worth taking a life, which also means it's worth taking one to protect such.

its not worth taking a life.

BorneTobyWilde

What would he deserve if he got off his shots first and killed the cop

Tugboats

maaaaaaa son never had noooooooooooooooo gun

Montroseee

I wouldn't point a paper cup at a cop in the US let alone a gun, it's basically suicide. Even if there was never any intention to use it or it was unloaded it still must be assumed that you will use it. Sad to hear but it was incredibly an stupid thing to do.

end of the road

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What would he deserve if he got off his shots first and killed the cop

life in prison would be enough, just like for every other murder

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

life in prison would be enough, just like for every other murder

Who was murdered ?

suicide_circus

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

What would you do in that cops situation?

Die

StinkyMunkey

Tbh, you can't blame the cops for shooting so many, everyone owns a gun in America. It's only self preservation to assume every time you respond to a call, some scumbag is going to try take a pot shot. It's insane the amount of money spent by America on foreign policies, they really need to sort out their own back yard. Unfortunately for Obama he is reaping the rewards for retard decisions made by previous leaders, but that said, I think history will look with favour on efforts he has made regarding home and foreign policies.

UCDVet

end of the road wrote: »

if a force has a bad reputation and a bad history then it doesn't deserve the trust of the public.

I'm neither pro-cop or anti-cop but let's be fair here....there are TONS and TONS of examples of popular opinion being wrong. Having a 'reputation for X' doesn't have much of anything to do with whether or not X is true.

I knew a girl at uni who had a 'reputation' of being easy - but she just dressed slutty. She didn't sleep around at all!

Dan_Solo

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

He does the same on any thread like this, he's a troll.

Amazing. That's back seat modding and it's completely ignored for some odd reason...
This is too but I guess I'm safe now, huh.

end of the road

UCDVet wrote: »

there are TONS and TONS of examples of popular opinion being wrong.

this one isn't one of those examples. this particular police forces reputation is well deserved.

UCDVet wrote: »

Having a 'reputation for X' doesn't have much of anything to do with whether or not X is true.

no, but in this case it is true.

UCDVet wrote: »

I knew a girl at uni who had a 'reputation' of being easy - but she just dressed slutty. She didn't sleep around at all!

whats that got to do with anything. while i take your word for it that she wasn't "easy" had she been thats not a crime.

Highflyer13

America and its gun laws are so fooking stupid. Any auld nut can wave a gun at the cops. Why does everybody have the right to own a gun? Its daft.

Highflyer13

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Most important thing is that gunman is dead and cop is at home with his family. There are people in prison here who don't deserve their free 3 meals, their free sky tv, their free music lessons,their free gym membership, they deserve a bullet. Ireland,where crime does pay .
I think this man got what he deserted .

Cop on to yourself fool.

Egginacup

SeanW wrote: »

Edited to clarify: Egginacup is from the same individual that spouts stuff he/she read on Russia Today as an accurate guide to the Ukranian crisis ...

If you wish to debate the Ukrainian Crisis then it behoves you to not attempt some flaccid manoeuvre at introducing my opinions (and facts, I might add) linked therewith with the discussion in which we are currently engaged.

Unless I have displayed glaring hypocrisy in my posting about another subject then your attempt to introduce that discussion is craven.

Egginacup

mynamejeff wrote: »

your source is the malcom x grassroots movement
there are headings " the war on black people "

that to you is a reasonable un bias source is it ?
no chance that there could be a preexisting anti state anti police attitude there ?

also having read the examples given seems to me most of them were dangerous criminals some of whom actively attacked police

No, there is no euphemistically "anti state anti police" attitude here or anywhere.

Why would you say such a thing?

There is an anti-abuse-of-power attitude here. There is also an anti-those-who-forgive-violence-just-so-you-can attitude here.

Egginacup

SeanW wrote: »

Her's the thing about Trayvon Martin. Yes, his killing may have been a murder, but 6000+ black people are murdered each year in the United States (more than whites, 5800+) and this correlates to the murder rate by race as well.

To be clear, I use these statistics only for one purpose - to question why Travyon Martin is so important.

To be clear also, it's reasonable to assume that T.M. may have been murdered, and we should all be appalled by this. As we should about any murder.

But I find it bizarre that all the people mourning for Trayvon Martin (and actual thugs like Michael Brown) don't give a ***k about the tens of thousands of black people that have been murdered (by other black people, in 94% of cases) over the last few years.

I had to wait for a while to collect my thoughts and allow my heart rate to slow before responding to this.
Sean, it is IRRELEVANT if blacks are killing each other to the point of extinction. Those 6000+ attacks of which you speak ...... every perpetrator of these killings is hunted, indicted, charged, tried, convicted...that is if they are apprehended, and if not they are listed for their crime OR, failing identification, the case remains unsolved.

A million blacks could kill each other but they would ALL face charge and trial...in fact most of them do, including some who just attended the scene of the crime.

For you to attempt to connect this to cops killing black people is appalling. Are you suggesting that black people are just plain criminal, ... that it's inherent?

Your shit analogy about black on black murders is as weak and shabby as someone who might excuse a sadistic schoolteacher who routinely beats and sexually abuses kids against their will and with the power to get away with it because "fuck it, they come from an area where aforementioned violence is commonplace"

As for your question as to why there was outrage about Trayvon Martin's killing but none about the countless others who just get "whacked".....again it's irrelevant.

If you kill someone, are seen to kill someone; if you beat someone; are seen to beat someone; if you harass someone; then you are in violation of the law of the land. Whether you are are a cop or not. Yet if a cop can get away with not even having his bullets counted after he has blasted to death someone who he claims "frightened" him,
Then why would you even correlate the rules allegedly that apply to both citizens and those tasked to protect them via their taxes?

Why are there rules for the exacting of violence against people? and if you don't give a sh1t about rules then just say so. I'd have more respect for an honest thug than a lying charlatan.

BattleCorp

Egginacup wrote: »

.

I'm curious Egginacup. What would you have done if you were the cop in that situation?

darkpagandeath

Egginacup wrote: »

No, there is no euphemistically "anti state anti police" attitude here or anywhere.

Why would you say such a thing?

There is an anti-abuse-of-power attitude here. There is also an anti-those-who-forgive-violence-just-so-you-can attitude here.

Really ? Is pointing a gun at someone now not a violent action ?

bear1

Never ceases to amaze me how certain threads on AH can go downhill so fast.
How we've gone from the death of a person to the Ukrainian conflict and back again is beyond me.
The simple matter is that the US has a ridiculous policy when it comes to gun ownership, and unfortunately they seem to prove it every other week at this stage.
Did that kid deserve to be killed? No. Did that cop have a right to defend himself? Yes.
We can question his motives as much as we want but at the end of the day, until we are put in a position of a it's either him or me then I would guess that all of us wouldn't chose the latter.
Self defence, the cctv shows it. Extreme self defence but self defence none the less.
There is only one reason why that kid pulled a gun on the cop and he must have known that it could either go two ways:

1) kill the cop and be branded a cop killer and wanted for murder. Cops would then be dying to get their hands on him and repay the favour.

or 2) Points gun at cop, cop reacts quicker and shots kid dead. Game over.

AndonHandon

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Really ? Is pointing a gun at someone now not a violent action ?

Apparently not.

UCDVet

bear1 wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me how certain threads on AH can go downhill so fast.
How we've gone from the death of a person to the Ukrainian conflict and back again is beyond me.
The simple matter is that the US has a ridiculous policy when it comes to gun ownership, and unfortunately they seem to prove it every other week at this stage.
Did that kid deserve to be killed? No. Did that cop have a right to defend himself? Yes.
We can question his motives as much as we want but at the end of the day, until we are put in a position of a it's either him or me then I would guess that all of us wouldn't chose the latter.
Self defence, the cctv shows it. Extreme self defence but self defence none the less.
There is only one reason why that kid pulled a gun on the cop and he must have known that it could either go two ways:

1) kill the cop and be branded a cop killer and wanted for murder. Cops would then be dying to get their hands on him and repay the favour.

or 2) Points gun at cop, cop reacts quicker and shots kid dead. Game over.

Extreme? I'm not sure I'm following...

bear1

UCDVet wrote: »

Extreme? I'm not sure I'm following...

Clearly not, killing someone in self defence imo is extreme self defence. Justifiable in this instance but it is still extreme.

UCDVet

bear1 wrote: »

Clearly not, killing someone in self defence imo is extreme self defence. Justifiable in this instance but it is still extreme.

Fair enough. I'd consider it 'reasonable' to use lethal force when confronted with someone else who is willing to use lethal force to harm you. Extreme seems to suggest, to me, there was a less extreme alternative available.

GalwayGuitar

Egginacup wrote: »

I had to wait for a while to collect my thoughts and allow my heart rate to slow before responding to this.
Sean, it is IRRELEVANT if blacks are killing each other to the point of extinction. Those 6000+ attacks of which you speak ...... every perpetrator of these killings is hunted, indicted, charged, tried, convicted...that is if they are apprehended, and if not they are listed for their crime OR, failing identification, the case remains unsolved.

A million blacks could kill each other but they would ALL face charge and trial...in fact most of them do, including some who just attended the scene of the crime.

For you to attempt to connect this to cops killing black people is appalling. Are you suggesting that black people are just plain criminal, ... that it's inherent?

Your shit analogy about black on black murders is as weak and shabby as someone who might excuse a sadistic schoolteacher who routinely beats and sexually abuses kids against their will and with the power to get away with it because "fuck it, they come from an area where aforementioned violence is commonplace"

As for your question as to why there was outrage about Trayvon Martin's killing but none about the countless others who just get "whacked".....again it's irrelevant.

If you kill someone, are seen to kill someone; if you beat someone; are seen to beat someone; if you harass someone; then you are in violation of the law of the land. Whether you are are a cop or not. Yet if a cop can get away with not even having his bullets counted after he has blasted to death someone who he claims "frightened" him,
Then why would you even correlate the rules allegedly that apply to both citizens and those tasked to protect them via their taxes?

Why are there rules for the exacting of violence against people? and if you don't give a sh1t about rules then just say so. I'd have more respect for an honest thug than a lying charlatan.

You can rant all you want. At the end of the day a thug pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot. Cry me a river

Yurt2

America is such a funked up place and is likely to stay that way due to its gun laws. Can you imagine being a Garda here if you knew half of the tracksuited scallies on our streets were carrying pistols? I'm glad our cops don't have to make the decisions American ones do.

While I had sympathy with the Ferguson and the NY 'choke' case, this was very much a kill or be killed situation it seems. Where were this kids parents and why was he carrying?

end of the road

GalwayGuitar wrote: »

You can rant all you want. At the end of the day a thug pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot. Cry me a river

he wasn't a thug, he was probably in danger, which in fairness the way cops act over in that sespit i can understand

darkpagandeath

end of the road wrote: »

he wasn't a thug, he was probably in danger, which in fairness the way cops act over in that sespit i can understand

Assault ? Armed Robbery ? Suppose they were just the acts of a misunderstood teen..

GalwayGuitar

end of the road wrote: »

he wasn't a thug, he was probably in danger, which in fairness the way cops act over in that sespit i can understand

Lol. The genius drew a gun, what was the cop supposed to do?

Egginacup

Feck it! It's the season of goodwill to all men, so as the friends and family of Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner and the guy who was shot dead in the shop...what was his name? and this guy, wail in anguish and pain and misery at their hopelessness this Christmas and New Year, I'd like to wish Happy Christmas to them, but also to the ones who are delighted that they are dead.

darkpagandeath

Egginacup wrote: »

Feck it! It's the season of goodwill to all men, so as the friends and family of Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner and the guy who was shot dead in the shop...what was his name? and this guy, wail in anguish and pain and misery at their hopelessness this Christmas and New Year, I'd like to wish Happy Christmas to them, but also to the ones who are delighted that they are dead.

Who's delighted now ? Most people are pointing out how his own actions lead to him being shot. And not police running around shooting people at random.

braddun

pointing loaded gun at police

bennyl10

Egginacup wrote: »

Feck it! It's the season of goodwill to all men, so as the friends and family of Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner and the guy who was shot dead in the shop...what was his name? and this guy, wail in anguish and pain and misery at their hopelessness this Christmas and New Year, I'd like to wish Happy Christmas to them, but also to the ones who are delighted that they are dead.

Noone has expressed delight at his death, simply being pointed out to you thst someone who points a gun at a cop is a thug, and is in all likelihood going to shoot this cop.

Cop then has 2 choices, let the boy with the gun aim at him, hope he doesn't fire, or prrotect himself by taking out the threat.

If you were the cop which option would you prefer to pick?

It's awful, but to in anyway say the teen didn't bring it on himself is just trolling

punisher5112

I would love to know what these people would do if someone pulled a gun or knife on them....

I know for one i would not go without a fight.

Serious evil scum out there.


In the case of the child that was shot ack a while he should not have been out with such a toy which could easily be mistaken for a real weapon and then keep it up instead of dropping. I feel bad for the young guy his family and of course the officer and emergency services as this was tragic and the officer in no way would want to have this hanging over them for the rest of their lives.


Sad world we live in.

DEFTLEFTHAND

braddun wrote: »

pointing loaded gun at police

'Suicide By Cop' is another name for that in the States, you point a pistol at a police officer and you'll be put down with plenty of rounds fired into you.

MadYaker

The joys of living in a society that is awash with guns. The kids mother says he didn't have a gun.... like he'd tell her if he did. I know one thing for sure id hate to be a police officer or a young black male in the USA right now. There is some interesting stuff in this thread from reddit if you've got time to read it http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/2q9wwe/when_we_hear_members_of_the_nypd_union_leadership/

Overheal

Chris___ wrote: »

Apparently the guy never pointed a gun at the officer despite seen to in the CCTV. The camera never lies. Also there's no doubt footage of this caught on the dash cam.

'coincidentally', both the officer's body camera and the dash camera were reportedly not turned on during the incident.

Riiiight.

bear1

Overheal wrote: »

'coincidentally', both the officer's body camera and the dash camera were reportedly not turned on during the incident.

Riiiight.

I'm not sure they are wearing body camers yet but regarding the police car camera, from reading this article:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120641/antonio-martins-death-shows-limitations-dashboard-and-body-camera

The cameras are only activated if the lights are turned on. Seeing as it was just a routine check the officer must have thought there was no need to turn them on.
I seriously don't believe the cop saw a couple of these kids and thought "they would have a gun so I'll keep the camera off and get away with murder".

bennyl10

Overheal wrote: »

'coincidentally', both the officer's body camera and the dash camera were reportedly not turned on during the incident.

Riiiight.

Why do people refuse to believe tbe CCTV that we actually do have then?! More isn't really required surely.. A gun being pointed is shown..

Yano what the dash cam would show? A gun being pointed!!

SeanW

Bit like Michael Brown, CCTV showed him robbing the shop and assaulting the owner, then after the shooting the physical evidence, i.e. ballistics, verified officer Wilson's story.

Yet still according to some MB was helpless innocent victim of a trigger happy KKK sympathising murdering cop. Paraphrasing one of them: "Wilson should have kept his gun out of MBs reach" or "MB was just in a bit of rough play" ... And yet those same people take no responsibility when months of cop-hating race-baiting culminates in the execution of two innocent policemen.