Soccer Forum Premier League Era Draft Game Thread

Ferris_Bueller

Oranage2 wrote: »

Barry, Carrick and arteta - what are people's opinions on these players? I'm a little shocked they've made all time Prem greats teams tbh.

I can see what you mean but realistically when people are picking two or three centre midfielders each these guys are definitely going to make it in, all three are very good players who have played a lot of games in the league and all have been key players for successful teams. When you are trying to pick eleven players who will work well together in a hypothetical team too then these players become extremely important.. A midfield of Gerrard and Lampard might look better but would it work as well? Probably not. They are definitely a few levels below the likes of Gerrard, Scholes, Vieira, Keane etc but they are still some of the best PL midfielders over the years IMO.

I'm going to be in work for the evening so will probably mail my pick onto Donnielighto again if that's okay.

redzerdrog

Oranage2 wrote: »

Barry, Carrick and arteta - what are people's opinions on these players? I'm a little shocked they've made all time Prem greats teams tbh.

I think you have shown to have very little understanding of how these drafts work since the start. All 3 players should 100% be picked in this draft and I have no doubts that they would have been. We are only half way through the draft so if you are shocked at their inclusion you will absolutely dismayed and some of the players to come.

SlickRic

Butt is a very good pick at this stage.

LuckyLloyd

redzerdrog wrote: »

I think you have shown to have very little understanding of how these drafts work since the start. All 3 players should 100% be picked in this draft and I have no doubts that they would have been. We are only half way through the draft so if you are shocked at their inclusion you will absolutely dismayed and some of the players to come.

16 X 11 = 176

Is Gareth Barry one of the top 176 players in Premiership history? Of course.

There are two issues at play in a draft:

- value
- fit

You need to balance the two. Sometimes the MVP on the board won't fit your team and you have to pass. Sometimes the perfect fit for what you have just can't be justified from a value perspective.

It's hard going to be fully optimal in your decision making.

SlickRic

indeed.

i could have picked Tevez ages ago, but I had Aguero, and the fact I have Lampard means that I might be slightly unbalanced if I go 2 up top.

i decided to play to my best players' strengths instead.

bucketybuck

At this point in the draft you will not be getting the perfect player, I have a couple of players lined up for whom I already know the criticisms that will levelled against them. But I'd rather pick them than some lessor player with no flaws but no greatness either.

Its like Hargreaves going already, great player but will his injuries and limited playing time count against him? Maybe it will, but maybe it was also better to pick him ahead of a lesser player who played a lot more games.

The only problem for me is that a lot of people won't decide between two teams on their strengths but on their weaknesses, so you need to be careful about which flawed players you take. Somebody taking 5 seconds to vote may not look too hard at the team, instead he might just see Torres and think "That guy went to shit altogether, thats my reason to vote for the other team".

redzerdrog

and on the opposite end Andersonisgod has gone for the mvp with most picks and to hell with balance.

It will be interesting to see what teams are successfull

IncognitoMan

bucketybuck wrote: »

At this point in the draft you will not be getting the perfect player, I have a couple of players lined up for whom I already know the criticisms that will levelled against them. But I'd rather pick them than some lessor player with no flaws but no greatness either.

Its like Hargreaves going already, great player but will his injuries and limited playing time count against him? Maybe it will, but maybe it was also better to pick him ahead of a lesser player who played a lot more games.

The only problem for me is that a lot of people won't decide between two teams on their strengths but on their weaknesses, so you need to be careful about which flawed players you take. Somebody taking 5 seconds to vote may not look too hard at the team, instead he might just see Torres and think "That guy went to shit altogether, thats my reason to vote for the other team".

I've come to this realisation after the Hargreaves pick. There is a midfielder still on the board who will probably get votes over him despite him going to a big club and failing but his seasons with smaller clubs will probably cover him.

I think I regret the Hargreaves decision it's too easy a target for people to pull me up on. Although I do think a fit and peak midfield 3 of Petit, Hargreaves and modric offers a little bit of everything and they would work very well together with Mata just infont. I guess we'll see if others agree

SherlockWatson

The big thing for me is that Hargreaves United peak, was on the right wing, in the CL, IMO of course.

Don't forget you'll have the option of having him on the bench if you dont feel comfortable of public opinion of him.

bucketybuck

SherlockWatson wrote: »

The big thing for me is that Hargreaves United peak, was on the right wing, in the CL, IMO of course.

Don't forget you'll have the option of having him on the bench if you dont feel comfortable of public opinion of him.

He wasn't really on the wing though, he was in a midfield three, with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez operating ahead of him, Scholes and the others.

IncognitoMan

I look at that formation as Carrick holder, Hargreaves box to box and Scholes playmaker. In a midfield 3 with 3 in front.

For me it will be Petit holder, Hargreaves box to box and modric playmaker

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

He wasn't really on the wing though, he was in a midfield three, with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez operating ahead of him, Scholes and the others.

Nah, he was definitely on the wing in the first half. Ronaldo on the other wing and it was all relatively rigid. Then Hargreaves went into the middle with Carrick after Scholes went off.

Blatter

He played right back in the two legs v Barcelona in the semi that year due to an injury crisis.

Very talented CM though but yes a risky pick for obvious reasons.

Donnielighto

Butt is a an absolutely great option at this stage in the draft.

Donnielighto

I picked for Ferris Bueller, pm sent to buckety

SherlockWatson

Very good pick in Ronnie there. Very good.

Something to be said for having a solid unit like that who have played together and proven that they are defensively sound.

Donnielighto

If only you got neville :P

bucketybuck

Donnielighto wrote: »

If only you got neville :P

I might.

Donnielighto

Seriously though getting 3/4 of that treble winning defence is huge, proven to work together and one of if not the best teams over the course of the PL

SlickRic

Johnsen is a super pick, particularly with who was already in his team.

keane2097

Johnson is superb value there.

Andersonisgod

Just to mention, I haven't a clue about the order we are going in, if I didn't get a pm I wouldn't have known it was my go, thus the lack of pm for Sherlock Watson.

Donnielighto

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Just to mention, I haven't a clue about the order we are going in, if I didn't get a pm I wouldn't have known it was my go, thus the lack of pm for Sherlock Watson.

The pick order is linked in the OP of this thread.

Andersonisgod

Donnielighto wrote: »

The pick order is linked in the OP of this thread.

I feel it better not to exercise such attention to detail.

Donnielighto

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I feel it better not to exercise such attention to detail.

What?

Oranage2

A joke :pac:

SherlockWatson

Andersonisgod wrote: »

if I didn't get a pm I wouldn't have known it was my go.

That's the reason why PM's are sent.

bucketybuck

nm

SlickRic

Kolo is a savvy pick tbh.

bucketybuck

There is one other defender I would have picked ahead of him, maybe two, but Toure circa 2004 was a fantastic defender.

Don't like the Sturridge pick though.

SlickRic

Sturridge is ok, but when you consider at least one other striker that hasn't been picked, it's certainly not the best available by any means IMO.

shano_88

Kolo Toure was the defender I was on about. A great pick at this stage. Was fantastic at Arsenal.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've also noted one absolute legend who still hasn't been picked, but who I don't actually need. Will be interesting to see who gets him.

And now he's gone, I was talking about Stuart Pearce. Seriously that guy was a fantastic defender, as good as any full back in the premier league. Serious value in round 7.

Liam O

I picked Sturridge as I feel he'd work well with Cantona and has pace and finishing ability I know who's being talked about I think and I like Sturridge more.

LuckyLloyd

bucketybuck wrote: »

And now he's gone, I was talking about Stuart Pearce. Seriously that guy was a fantastic defender, as good as any full back in the premier league. Serious value in round 7.

Was very surprised that Heinze went ahead of him!!

But then Harte!!?

Donnielighto

Pearce is 4th best lb for me after irwin cole and evra

gosplan

Is this solely judged on premiership performance?

Like would Cambiasso or Hierro be a good pick?

SherlockWatson

gosplan wrote: »

Is this solely judged on premiership performance?

Like would Cambiasso or Hierro be a good pick?

Its judged on their peak time in the PL, for instance Torres would be pool Torres and not Chelsea Torres.

Chrissybhoy

Longevity and consistentcy comes into it too

Donnielighto

gosplan wrote: »

Is this solely judged on premiership performance?

Like would Cambiasso or Hierro be a good pick?

It was specified on the first page that it was premier league prime only, I even used cambiasso as an example Also means the likes of ronaldo isn't at his best though

redzerdrog

Its overall premiership performance with a slight leaning towards peak performance

Liam O

redzerdrog wrote: »

Its overall premiership performance with a slight leaning towards peak performance

No it's the opposite. It's peak performance with a leaning towards overall impact. It's why I felt comfortable picking Sturridge over some other strikers who haven't had as good a season as he had last season.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

No it's the opposite. It's peak performance with a leaning towards overall impact. It's why I felt comfortable picking Sturridge over some other strikers who haven't had as good a season as he had last season.

This is my understanding as well. Its as if you are lifting a player from the field when he was at his peak in the premier league and putting him into your team for a game.

For example, Torres has been rubbish for longer than he was good, but those peak seasons are what made him a high pick.

LuckyLloyd

You get the player's premiership years, for better or worse. There are some totemic players from the 80's who played in the EPL who might be dicey picks, or 1st round in 1980 - 1990 draft and 8th round here.

SherlockWatson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You get the player's premiership years, for better or worse. There are some totemic players from the 80's who played in the EPL who might be dicey picks, or 1st round in 1980 - 1990 draft and 8th round here.

It was clearly stated at the start it was PL peaks and Torres was used as an example, so it should be based on peaks IMO.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I'll read up some old draft threads soon enough and see how these things worked. Players are based on their peaks in the Premier League. So Ronaldo will be slightly less brilliant than he has been at Real Madrid. You can make arguments on their behalf anyway.

redzerdrog

Peak years is the key part someone like Andy cole who done it over a number of years will be rated higher than a Klinsmann or sturridge whos peak is one year.

Liam O

redzerdrog wrote: »

Peak years is the key part someone like Andy cole who done it over a number of years will be rated higher than a Klinsmann or sturridge whos peak is one year.

Nope, their ability over their best period. Doesn't matter how long it's for as far as I'm concerned as far as it was a full season.

Ferris_Bueller

I'd agree with redzerdog. Surely it's a bit of both? Klinsmann for example might get a 9/10 in terms of peak ability but he would rank very low in the other category as he only played here for a season or two. That's surely a reason why guys such as Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Gerrard etc are so dominant in drafts like these no? On the flip side someone like Suarez would have to be considered better than Emile Heskey for example.. But players who have played to a high level for a long time have to be given extra credit I would have thought.

bucketybuck

redzerdrog wrote: »

Peak years is the key part someone like Andy cole who done it over a number of years will be rated higher than a Klinsmann or sturridge whos peak is one year.

And in that season Klinsmann was FWA player of the year, something Cole never achieved.

In my opinion this draft started with the idea that it was based on peak, with of course some weighting given to other factors. There is a reason Suarez went before Cole did, even though Cole scored more goals and won more trophies.

redzerdrog

Anderson had two good games against Liverpool and Arsenal in his first year which is prob a higher peak than just say Speed acheived but I'd still have Speed a million miles ahead for this draft.

Someone who was on top of their game for longer is obviously going to have more of an impact here