Soccer Forum Premier League Era Draft Game Thread

SherlockWatson

redzerdrog wrote: »

Anderson had two good games against Liverpool and Arsenal in his first year which is prob a higher peak than just say Speed acheived but I'd still have Speed a million miles ahead for this draft.

Someone who was on top of their game for longer is obviously going to have more of an impact here

Nobody is suggesting we take a player at their peak for two games, but it was clarified before any players were picked that it would be based on their peak season(s) in the premier league.

eagle eye

Yeah that's how I thought it was too. I would never have taken two of my first three picks if it was based on having a long career in the league. Its why I didn't take Shearer.

redzerdrog

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Nobody is suggesting we take a player at their peak for two games, but it was clarified before any players were picked that it would be based on their peak season(s) in the premier league.

But for example player a score 20 goals over 1 season and doesn't score again yet player b scores 18 goals a season for each of his 3 seasons in the league and doesn't score again. Which would you rate higher?

SherlockWatson

redzerdrog wrote: »

But for example player a score 20 goals over 1 season and doesn't score again yet player b scores 18 goals a season for each of his 3 seasons in the league and doesn't score again. Which would you rate higher?

In real life, I would rate the 3 season 18 goal striker better, but for the purposes of this draft, I would be picking the 20 goal a season player.

SlickRic

It has to be based on the career to a decent degree.

I'll have my second pick up in a bit.

redzerdrog

SherlockWatson wrote: »

In real life, I would rate the 3 season 18 goal striker better, but for the purposes of this draft, I would be picking the 20 goal a season player.

That is rediculous

SherlockWatson

SlickRic wrote: »

It has to be based on the career to a decent degree.

I'll have my second pick up in a bit.

It doesn't though, the rules were laid out at the start that it was to be based on Peak performance, otherwise, the guy who picked Torres is gonna be mugged off big time due to his Chelsea form which would then certainly have to be taken into account.

Obviously if it's two players that are on par with each other in their peak season, then you would surely take consistency and longevity into it, but other than that, Peak Form > Career Form imo.

Chrissybhoy

It's premier league era not premier league best season

SherlockWatson

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

It's premier league era not premier league best season

redzerdrog wrote: »

That is rediculous

No it's not, 7th post in this thread, before anyone picked, and only four people had signed up at the time.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Players are based on their peaks in the Premier League.

I'm not saying this because I've picked one season wonders (I don't think I have), just saying it because they were the rules laid out at the start.

redzerdrog

SherlockWatson wrote: »

No it's not, 7th post in this thread, before anyone picked, and only four people had signed up at the time.





I'm not saying this because I've picked one season wonders (I don't think I have), just saying it because they were the rules laid out at the start.

What is a peak though? I can think of one unpicked player who had an amazing half a season it needs the be weighed against overall ability/talent or else Micheal Rickets should be picked. Someone's who's peak ability lasted longer weighs more than someone of similar talent but only done it for one year

Billy86

I'm not in the drafft but I think it works best to put it as a peak of 3+ years, give or take. Mark down a bit if a player was in the league for only one or two seasons, mark down more if they were an average player who had a one off wonder season. Anything beyond about three years is a bonus, with guys like Speed who were "very good for very long" even if never completely spectacular getting a bit of a mark up for that longevity.

Billy86

SherlockWatson wrote: »

It doesn't though, the rules were laid out at the start that it was to be based on Peak performance, otherwise, the guy who picked Torres is gonna be mugged off big time due to his Chelsea form which would then certainly have to be taken into account.

Obviously if it's two players that are on par with each other in their peak season, then you would surely take consistency and longevity into it, but other than that, Peak Form > Career Form imo.

If that's what you guys are going by though to be fair, a top 5 goalscorer in the whole draft is still available.

Chrissybhoy

Most of my picks are based on impact on the league and how consistent they are so I've no chance so. If my memory is correct this draft came about from the debate of greatest premier league 11.

SlickRic

The guy with Torres won't get mugged. Peak form is key, but career must be taken into consideration.

Otherwise Michael Ricketts would be a good pick. He's not though.

SlickRic

Happy with young Jack.

I know he's had injury issues but in a one-off game format, he's absolutely fine.

He has everything you want in a midfielder.

SherlockWatson

SlickRic wrote: »

The guy with Torres won't get mugged. Peak form is key, but career must be taken into consideration.

Otherwise Michael Ricketts would be a good pick. He's not though.

If Michael Ricketts had scored 19-20 goals in one premier league season, he would a good pick.

SlickRic

SherlockWatson wrote: »

If Michael Ricketts had scored 19-20 goals in one premier league season, he would a good pick.

He scored 15 up to February one season.

By your definition he's an ok pick at worst. He's not. He'd be terrible.

SherlockWatson

SlickRic wrote: »

He scored 15 up to February one season.

By your definition he's an ok pick at worst. He's not. He'd be terrible.

He's never scored more than 12 PL goals in a season according to wiki so not sure where you're getting those stats from.

SlickRic

SherlockWatson wrote: »

He's never scored more than 12 PL goals in a season according to wiki so not sure where you're getting those stats from.

You get my point though.

If someone finds a player who once scored 15 PL goals, but did very little else ever, he can't be considered a good pick.

bucketybuck

I know a player who came to the Premier league for a top club when he was 33 and absolutely bossed it for only 2 seasons, you cannot tell me he would be a worse pick than solid pro's like Barry or Carrick?

SlickRic

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know a player who came to the Premier league for a top club when he was 33 and absolutely bossed it for only 2 seasons, you cannot tell me he would be a worse pick than solid pro's like Barry or Carrick?

No, I'm not necessarily.

redzerdrog

Southgate and Sagan are two excellent picks back to the drawing board for me

brevity

redzerdrog wrote: »

Southgate and Sagan are two excellent picks back to the drawing board for me

Carl?

Now there's a man who knew all about space.

redzerdrog

brevity wrote: »

Carl?

Now there's a man who knew all about space.

Fecking auto correct

Billy86

SherlockWatson wrote: »

If Michael Ricketts had scored 19-20 goals in one premier league season, he would a good pick.

In that case, as goalscorers Andy Cole is the tied followed by Suarez and Ronaldo tied, then Henry and someone who is still unpicked.

LuckyLloyd

Really delighted to pick up Pearce and Beardsley at this stage.

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X

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X

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Terry (C)---X

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Pearce

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Mascherano

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Ince

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Silva

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Beardsley----Kewell

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Van Nistelrooy

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Solidity at the back; steel in the middle; a creative trio; a great striker

Pleased.

Timmyctc

Billy86 wrote: »

In that case, as goalscorers Andy Cole is the tied followed by Suarez and Ronaldo tied, then Henry and someone who is still unpicked.

Goals isn't the only thing those players contributed though. Youre misrepresenting his argument

Billy86

Timmyctc wrote: »

Goals isn't the only thing those players contributed though. Youre misrepresenting his argument

That's why I said goalscorers and not forwards or strikers, though he did say "In real life, I would rate the 3 season 18 goal striker better, but for the purposes of this draft, I would be picking the 20 goal a season player."

By that logic, Marcus Stewart is as good a goal scoring pick as Michael Owen

SherlockWatson

Billy86 wrote: »

That's why I said goalscorers and not forwards or strikers, though he did say "In real life, I would rate the 3 season 18 goal striker better, but for the purposes of this draft, I would be picking the 20 goal a season player."

By that logic, Marcus Stewart is as good a goal scoring pick as Michael Owen

No, just no.

If its two players of the same ability(which is so obvious I shouldn't need to say it, but shur it seems I do) then i'd take the 20 goal a season striker over the three 18 goal seasons striker, simples really.

It's based on Peak, that's not my choice, its just the rules that were laid out at the start.

Billy86

At the same time you said Ricketts would be a good pick if he had scored 19-20 goals (despite the fact he was a rubbish footballer outside of goalscoring). But like I said I am not involved in the draft so I'm not really bothered either way, just seems a bit silly to me to put 0% emphasis on longevity and/or impact over time.

Donnielighto

It was pretty clearly laid out that it is premier league peak seasons, not half seasons, not 4 seasons. If you didnt read the thread (which was agreed before any picks made) you cant really blame anyone. It was stated that overall impact is taken into account but focus on peak seasons.


It's a bit of both but the focus is more on peak seasons.

SherlockWatson

Billy86 wrote: »

At the same time you said Ricketts would be a good pick if he had scored 19-20 goals (despite the fact he was a rubbish footballer outside of goalscoring). But like I said I am not involved in the draft so I'm not really bothered either way, just seems a bit silly to me to put 0% emphasis on longevity and/or impact over time.

If me aunt had balls shed be my uncle.


Ricketts never scored 19-20 goals, your point is moronic tbh.

I didn't make the rule anyway so I dunno, we can let Frankie clarify as to what he meant when be posted that.


Also, 0% emphasis on longevity and impact over time, did you even read my posts?

Oranage2

Donnielighto wrote: »

It was pretty clearly laid out that it is premier league peak seasons, not half seasons, not 4 seasons. If you didnt read the thread (which was agreed before any picks made) you cant really blame anyone. It was stated that overall impact is taken into account but focus on peak seasons.


It's a bit of both but the focus is more on peak seasons.

I'm not sure I agree with this way of judging a player, I'll only use this rule as a rough guideline and I'll be using my own criteria on players ability when it comes to voting.

Donnielighto

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with this way of judging a player, I'll only use this rule as a rough guideline and I'll be using my own criteria on players ability when it comes to voting.

Cool, ignore the agreed way of doing it because it suits you.

A_Sober_Paddy

Would not be ranked higher than Gaël Clichy as a left back?



Clichy 270 PL, granted won the league three times, but in those league winning campaigns Arsenal(12Apps), City 28 and 22 Apps) in those respective season, i don't have starts on starts but i'd reckon a higher percentage of his games were as a sub compared to

Donnielighto

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I agree but people should keep in mind for the likes of Courtois and Diego Costa that it requires more than an excellent half season in the league to prove them better than someone who has been good for a number of seasons. Regardless of what they have done previously too. 1 or 2 excellent seasons will still trump 3 or 4 good ones though.

Another option is that players selected must have played say 50 pl games and then just be judged on their peaks in the league?

Have people read the 1st 3 pages?

Donnielighto

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Clichy 270 PL, granted won the league three times, but in those league winning campaigns Arsenal(12Apps), City 28 and 22 Apps) in those respective season, i don't have starts on starts but i'd reckon a higher percentage of his

Not supposed to mention players that havent been picked but will be.

A_Sober_Paddy

Donnielighto wrote: »

Not supposed to mention players that havent been picked but will be.

Oh really sorry i'm just someone with a passing interest, i'll edit my post

SherlockWatson

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with this way of judging a player, I'll only use this rule as a rough guideline and I'll be using my own criteria on players ability when it comes to voting.

Then I'd hope for the love of god that your vote isn't counted in any match as you've clearly said you don't care what the rules are, why bother be involved then?


Edit - I'm gonna pull out altogether, CBA with it if everyone will be using different criteria for judging and people like above vote-spoiling for the sake of it.

Who's next in line?

Oranage2

Donnielighto wrote: »

Cool, ignore the agreed way of doing it because it suits you.

There's a player out there who scored the same amount of goals in a season as Henrys highest, does that mean I'm suppose to judge them equally?

No, it's stupid.

SherlockWatson

Oranage2 wrote: »

There's a player out there who scored the same amount of goals in a season as Henrys highest, does that mean I'm suppose to judge them equally?

No, it's stupid.

Only if you're stupid enough to use goals scored as a total baromoter of ability, which absolutely nobody is suggesting, just don't vote if you can't grasp the rules, it's that simple tbh.

Oranage2

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Only if you're stupid enough to use goals scored as a total baromoter of ability, which absolutely nobody is suggesting, just don't vote if you can't grasp the rules, it's that simple tbh.

Don't worry I'll be voting, also to let know, managers likeability will heavily feature in my decision!

SherlockWatson

Oranage2 wrote: »

Don't worry I'll be voting, also to let know, managers likeability will heavily feature in my decision!

You might think you're hilarious but it's people like you who make shít of community events and things like this. Congrats.

Oranage2

SherlockWatson wrote: »

You might think you're hilarious but it's people like you who make shít of community events and things like this. Congrats.

I wasn't trying to be funny. And if you're going to cry about community events going to sh!t, I wouldn't get snooty and call people stupid.

SherlockWatson

Oranage2 wrote: »

I wouldn't get snooty and call people stupid.

If the shoe fits and all that, which if you take these posts into account, the shoes must fit you pretty well.

Oranage2 wrote: »

managers likeability will heavily feature in my decision!

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'll be using my own criteria on players ability when it comes to voting.

I'll use my own criteria too, the tallest team will be the best team :rolleyes:

Oranage2

SherlockWatson wrote: »

If the shoe fits and all that, which if you take these posts into account, the shoes must fit you pretty well.





I'll use my own criteria too, the tallest team will be the best team :rolleyes:

I'd be surprised if people didn't take points off if they didn't like the poster, welcome to the real world.

And my criteria would have someone scoring 18 goals over 3 seasons ahead of a guy scoring 20 goals once if both players are of similar ability.

SherlockWatson

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'd be surprised if people didn't take points off if they didn't like the poster, welcome to the real world.

That's not the real world, you're still in kiddyland if that is your attitude.

Oranage2 wrote: »

And my criteria would have someone scoring 18 goals over 3 seasons ahead of a guy scoring 20 goals once if both players are of similar ability.

You don't seem to understand that voting with your own criteria is STUPID, you should be voting with the criteria that the draft has been based upon, I'd strongly consider that your vote isn't counted in any match, as you don't seem to understand the basics of voting.

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Anyway. I can't be arsed responding any further, if you don't understand it now, you never will, goodnight.

Oranage2

SherlockWatson wrote: »

That's not the real world, you're still in kiddyland if that is your attitude.




You don't seem to understand that voting with your own criteria is STUPID, you should be voting with the criteria that the draft has been based upon, I'd strongly consider that your vote isn't counted in any match, as you don't seem to understand the basics of voting.

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Anyway. I can't be arsed responding any further, if you don't understand it now, you never will, goodnight.

Yes, let's just leave it at this.

Chrissybhoy

So to clear things up we've to judge players that have had one excellent season higher than a player that has 5/6 very good seasons. So if you fill your team with one season wonders you should win.

So we're not judging who's the best Premier League players as such.

bucketybuck

Can I just say, when I vote I will be judging both teams on their merits and not on who the manager is, and it would never occur to me to do otherwise.